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Post by Wingsofaneagle on Aug 13, 2007 13:00:23 GMT -5
I made my exit from "truth" about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I have however maintained some friends within the group who asked me to come down to Seneca for a day, which I agreed to do. I guess I was curious whether there would be any "enlightening" coming from the platform. I was saddened however to hear the following:Testimonies:
One gentleman stated that some people had taken vacation days to come to convention. He was glad that for him convention was NOT vacation but SALVATION.
Story of 2 vessels: one a luxury/pleasure liner filled with entertainment and what appeals to the eye. The other a rescue boat, not pleasant to look at but the only one that can save our life.
Obvious by looking at someone that they are not walking with God
No one mentioned grace or what God/Christ can DO for us. Most was about the struggles of serving God. One person in testimony stood up and gave thanks and praise to God. She was the only one.
Ron Thomke (worker):
Even though Christ died for us; if we make a wrong choice(s) then Christ’s death means nothing for us Law commands obedience. Obedience = no foolish choices. No foolish choices = salvation
Obedience = wisdom
“No need for higher education, just simple obedience”. “I have more understanding than all my teachers……. because I am obedient”.
“If you don’t keep the law and its precepts you cannot be right with God”.
Precepts are the practical aspect of serving God. What we need to be doing.” Doing what you know = understanding
"The “doing” is the only way we will receive understanding.” “There is one right way and many evil ways”. God has not given us the power to walk on water, instead he has given us two feet to walk away from wrong choices/refrain from evil ways.
Evil ways = entertainment/expensive hobbies or sports/recreation/dangerous activities/what others deem not acceptable and which might be end up being an embarrassment to us. “Anything that hinders you being obedient is evil.”
“The ‘world’ doesn’t like to meditate but rather they prefer to just turn on entertainment. The “world” cannot stand to be alone with their own thoughts.” “What do those in the world have to think about that is good anyway”? “That is why they turn on entertainment; to get away from their evil thoughts”.
Mark Peters (worker) Jesus fulfilled the law and we need to fulfill it as well. HUH?
“Christ is our glory.”Kim Swanson (worker)
Serving God is a life long struggle
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 13, 2007 13:06:19 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing this. I also hear the same kind of things in recent meetings I've been in....as well as from my folks in our day-to-day living!
Edy
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 13, 2007 13:16:39 GMT -5
Thanks for your post - this reminds me of what a worker said to me at a 'friends' funeral last Novemember.
she hadn't seen me for sometime and her intro was 'we're still preaching the same gospel'
after listening to the workers part in the funeral that couldn't have been more true. It was all about the workers and no glory to God --
One man said to the sister of the deceased 'why do these people always talk about themselves and never about the deceased' ( at a funeral)
Such lack of giving Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit their rightful place and honor will always leave people on the works program.
The worker who spoke at the first meeting at the prince george BC convention listed several reasons for conventions - the first was because people come discouraged.......
Ron Thomkes copmment "I have more understanding than all my teachers.....because I am obedient..............."
reminds me of my first year in the Work - sitting at a breakfast table in some of the friends home - my companion proceded to declare that
"the youngest worker has more wisdom than the oldest false prophet"
this gave me a very strange feeling - one thing I knew was I sure had no wisdom and the other thing such a comment does to your mind is that all other religions and such are false........
This sets you up for a lot of pride and a lot of self confidence that is totally misplaced.... No wonder workers give such strange advice to people,,,,,, having never learned they know everything......
How sad... But Praise be to God for opening our eyes to His work on our behalf and setting us free to serve Him with joy.
sharon hargreaves
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Post by Goony Bird on Aug 13, 2007 17:08:54 GMT -5
I made my exit from "truth" about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I have however maintained some friends within the group who asked me to come down to Seneca for a day, which I agreed to do. I guess I was curious whether there would be any "enlightening" coming from the platform. I was saddened however to hear the following:Testimonies:
One gentleman stated that some people had taken vacation days to come to convention. He was glad that for him convention was NOT vacation but SALVATION.
Story of 2 vessels: one a luxury/pleasure liner filled with entertainment and what appeals to the eye. The other a rescue boat, not pleasant to look at but the only one that can save our life.
Obvious by looking at someone that they are not walking with God
No one mentioned grace or what God/Christ can DO for us. Most was about the struggles of serving God. One person in testimony stood up and gave thanks and praise to God. She was the only one.
Ron Thomke (worker):
Even though Christ died for us; if we make a wrong choice(s) then Christ’s death means nothing for us Law commands obedience. Obedience = no foolish choices. No foolish choices = salvation
Obedience = wisdom
“No need for higher education, just simple obedience”. “I have more understanding than all my teachers……. because I am obedient”.
“If you don’t keep the law and its precepts you cannot be right with God”.
Precepts are the practical aspect of serving God. What we need to be doing.” Doing what you know = understanding
"The “doing” is the only way we will receive understanding.” “There is one right way and many evil ways”. God has not given us the power to walk on water, instead he has given us two feet to walk away from wrong choices/refrain from evil ways.
Evil ways = entertainment/expensive hobbies or sports/recreation/dangerous activities/what others deem not acceptable and which might be end up being an embarrassment to us. “Anything that hinders you being obedient is evil.”
“The ‘world’ doesn’t like to meditate but rather they prefer to just turn on entertainment. The “world” cannot stand to be alone with their own thoughts.” “What do those in the world have to think about that is good anyway”? “That is why they turn on entertainment; to get away from their evil thoughts”.
Mark Peters (worker) Jesus fulfilled the law and we need to fulfill it as well. HUH?
“Christ is our glory.”Kim Swanson (worker)
Serving God is a life long struggle You made it out of the pressure cooker? Do you feel you are outside a box you were told is the place you "must be"? Can you now see the obligation they instill you with in God's name? Are you a raven haired beauty? Where is Seneca? Many are very happy for you. Especially me !!
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Post by main man on Aug 13, 2007 18:30:33 GMT -5
Apparently you people have not let go since you go back to convention and continue to hang on to this negative message board.The ones that are free are those that have let go and have completely severed all ties with the 2 by 2s.LET GO!! It is like writing about your ex wife!
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Post by Try again on Aug 13, 2007 18:49:27 GMT -5
Apparently you people have not let go since you go back to convention and continue to hang on to this negative message board.The ones that are free are those that have let go and have completely severed all ties with the 2 by 2s.LET GO!! It is like writing about your ex wife! Seeing others in captivity is not a pretty sight. Would you abandon your ex wife to an empty box? Maybe she was right to leave you? You really didn't love her did you? You did love her, but then the wind changed and you did not love her? You don't abandon people you love. You let them choose. You always love them though. Don't get confused, perhaps you have yet to love unconditionally?
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tms
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by tms on Aug 13, 2007 19:50:42 GMT -5
I made my exit from "truth" about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I have however maintained some friends within the group who asked me to come down to Seneca for a day, which I agreed to do. I guess I was curious whether there would be any "enlightening" coming from the platform. I was saddened however to hear the following:Testimonies:
One gentleman stated that some people had taken vacation days to come to convention. He was glad that for him convention was NOT vacation but SALVATION.
Story of 2 vessels: one a luxury/pleasure liner filled with entertainment and what appeals to the eye. The other a rescue boat, not pleasant to look at but the only one that can save our life.
Obvious by looking at someone that they are not walking with God
No one mentioned grace or what God/Christ can DO for us. Most was about the struggles of serving God. One person in testimony stood up and gave thanks and praise to God. She was the only one.
Ron Thomke (worker):
Even though Christ died for us; if we make a wrong choice(s) then Christ’s death means nothing for us Law commands obedience. Obedience = no foolish choices. No foolish choices = salvation
Obedience = wisdom
“No need for higher education, just simple obedience”. “I have more understanding than all my teachers……. because I am obedient”.
“If you don’t keep the law and its precepts you cannot be right with God”.
Precepts are the practical aspect of serving God. What we need to be doing.” Doing what you know = understanding
"The “doing” is the only way we will receive understanding.” “There is one right way and many evil ways”. God has not given us the power to walk on water, instead he has given us two feet to walk away from wrong choices/refrain from evil ways.
Evil ways = entertainment/expensive hobbies or sports/recreation/dangerous activities/what others deem not acceptable and which might be end up being an embarrassment to us. “Anything that hinders you being obedient is evil.”
“The ‘world’ doesn’t like to meditate but rather they prefer to just turn on entertainment. The “world” cannot stand to be alone with their own thoughts.” “What do those in the world have to think about that is good anyway”? “That is why they turn on entertainment; to get away from their evil thoughts”.
Mark Peters (worker) Jesus fulfilled the law and we need to fulfill it as well. HUH?
“Christ is our glory.”Kim Swanson (worker)
Serving God is a life long struggleThank you for sharing your convention experience. This was what I always heard also, about the struggle, but not much praise to God for giving us the chance of eternal salvation and security in knowing that.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 14, 2007 8:50:47 GMT -5
TO Goony Bird:
I now fly with "wings of an eagle"!!! I am no longer caged within the walls of obligation/tradition/lies/deceit/hypocrisy/self-righteousness/failures/faults/fears/no hope! It was good to go back to Seneca to be reminded of the mire I have climbed out of. It has made me more thankful that God has opened my eyes and continues to show/teach me all his wonderful truths. It also however makes me sad for those who are still without vision. "Main Man".... you are right... we don't stop loving... and it does pain my heart to see those I love still bound within the box.
Im not sure if anyone is familiar with Plato's Allegory of the cave? I think of this allegory often as my own experience. To make it short there were men chained up underground. On the wall in front of them were projected images of things that they believed to be "true". Pictures of flowers, trees, the sun, stars etc. One man broke free from the chains and made his way up to daylight. For the first time he saw and touched and smelled flowers/ saw the real sun, touched the grass. He felt wonderful that he had now experienced what was "real" and "true" and wanted to go back down into the hole to let the others know what he had experienced. Well he went back down and tried to tell them but they were so caught up in their own "reality" , so convinced that their "projected images" were real, they would not believe him, so they tried to kill him.
I have found that we cannot "make" others see what we see. We cannot force vision on anyone. All we can do is be there to lead them by the hand up out of the hole if they ask us to.
I do not go around bashing workers or the friends or call those still going to meeting to convince them of what i know. I just love them, keeping all the doors open and when and if the time comes for them to ask questions then i will be there for them.
I have remained in contact with them because I DO love them still and I want them to see that i have NOT grown horns !! All we can and should do is LOVE.
Ps. I am not raven haired, more auburn! (at least this month anyway!!) And Seneca is in Illinois, about 1 hr from Chicago.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 14, 2007 8:53:29 GMT -5
ooops sorry i meant "Try again" not "Main Man".... sorry for the error!
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Post by hooter on Aug 14, 2007 17:16:55 GMT -5
Last time I was there Barry complained about people not getting quiet after they left the meeting shed. He was quite angry. 2004.
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Post by Gooney bird on Aug 15, 2007 17:58:50 GMT -5
TO Goony Bird: I now fly with "wings of an eagle"!!! I am no longer caged within the walls of obligation/tradition/lies/deceit/hypocrisy/self-righteousness/failures/faults/fears/no hope! It was good to go back to Seneca to be reminded of the mire I have climbed out of. It has made me more thankful that God has opened my eyes and continues to show/teach me all his wonderful truths. It also however makes me sad for those who are still without vision. "Main Man".... you are right... we don't stop loving... and it does pain my heart to see those I love still bound within the box. Im not sure if anyone is familiar with Plato's Allegory of the cave? I think of this allegory often as my own experience. To make it short there were men chained up underground. On the wall in front of them were projected images of things that they believed to be "true". Pictures of flowers, trees, the sun, stars etc. One man broke free from the chains and made his way up to daylight. For the first time he saw and touched and smelled flowers/ saw the real sun, touched the grass. He felt wonderful that he had now experienced what was "real" and "true" and wanted to go back down into the hole to let the others know what he had experienced. Well he went back down and tried to tell them but they were so caught up in their own "reality" , so convinced that their "projected images" were real, they would not believe him, so they tried to kill him. I have found that we cannot "make" others see what we see. We cannot force vision on anyone. All we can do is be there to lead them by the hand up out of the hole if they ask us to. I do not go around bashing workers or the friends or call those still going to meeting to convince them of what i know. I just love them, keeping all the doors open and when and if the time comes for them to ask questions then i will be there for them. I have remained in contact with them because I DO love them still and I want them to see that i have NOT grown horns !! All we can and should do is LOVE. Ps. I am not raven haired, more auburn! (at least this month anyway!!) And Seneca is in Illinois, about 1 hr from Chicago. Thats great to hear. The allegory sounds just right. Did you ever hear the lions roar as you left the box(cave)?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 15, 2007 18:19:44 GMT -5
No they were stunned into disbelief!! I had been an firm advocate for the "meetings" for many years... no one dared mess with what i believed! LOL I think they're still in shock.
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Post by Gooney Bird on Aug 15, 2007 20:36:05 GMT -5
No they were stunned into disbelief!! I had been an firm advocate for the "meetings" for many years... no one dared mess with what i believed! LOL I think they're still in shock. Did you have a moment of truth? Was there a conflict envolved? How did you overcome the doubts? Did Jesus reveal himself to you? Did you discover a spiritual world beyond the end of your nose? Did Jesus cleanse you? Did Jesus unblind you?
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 20:40:58 GMT -5
No they were stunned into disbelief!! I had been an firm advocate for the "meetings" for many years... no one dared mess with what i believed! LOL I think they're still in shock. Did you have a moment of truth? Was there a conflict envolved? How did you overcome the doubts? Did Jesus reveal himself to you? Did you discover a spiritual world beyond the end of your nose? Did Jesus cleanse you? Did Jesus unblind you? Is that you Cheers?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 16, 2007 11:29:50 GMT -5
No they were stunned into disbelief!! I had been an firm advocate for the "meetings" for many years... no one dared mess with what i believed! LOL I think they're still in shock. Did you have a moment of truth? Was there a conflict envolved? How did you overcome the doubts? Did Jesus reveal himself to you? Did you discover a spiritual world beyond the end of your nose? There wasnt just ONE moment of truth... there were many many moments. Most were come by educating myself on doctrine and opening my eyes and heart to experience everything in a new way. There was no conflict with anyone within the meetings either with workers or friends. All the conflict was within myself and with the doctrine. What doubts are you referring to? The doubts i had about my "faith" in meetings? If so then my doubts were laid to rest when i found out the real "truth". Jesus has always been revealing himself to me and continues to do so in everything in my life. I see and experience things now like i never did while going to meetings. I am no longer closed minded. I am more aware of the needs of others. I am more aware of his power both in me and in others (in all believers). I am a better friend because I am less judgemental. I am a better listener as opposed to always thinking my opionion was the only one that mattered. I now have the assurance/confidence that Christ paid the price and I dont have to live with guilt and shame for never meeting the mark. Jesus cleansed me and continues to cleanse. I dont hold onto the past because he doesnt. I was "unblinded" when the scales of tradition, lies, deceit, false doctrine fell away! It started with me closely examining everything that was in my life and whether it was "real " or not. The more i dug the more i found out not to be true. When all that was pealed away i was left with only spirituality. Religion i found was the problem both with me and most of the world who are caught up in it. We do not need a church to know God. Thats all for now... ;D Did Jesus cleanse you? Did Jesus unblind you?
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Post by Gooney Bird on Aug 16, 2007 17:50:51 GMT -5
Did you have a moment of truth? Was there a conflict envolved? How did you overcome the doubts? Did Jesus reveal himself to you? Did you discover a spiritual world beyond the end of your nose? There wasnt just ONE moment of truth... there were many many moments. Most were come by educating myself on doctrine and opening my eyes and heart to experience everything in a new way. There was no conflict with anyone within the meetings either with workers or friends. All the conflict was within myself and with the doctrine. What doubts are you referring to? The doubts i had about my "faith" in meetings? If so then my doubts were laid to rest when i found out the real "truth". Jesus has always been revealing himself to me and continues to do so in everything in my life. I see and experience things now like i never did while going to meetings. I am no longer closed minded. I am more aware of the needs of others. I am more aware of his power both in me and in others (in all believers). I am a better friend because I am less judgemental. I am a better listener as opposed to always thinking my opionion was the only one that mattered. I now have the assurance/confidence that Christ paid the price and I dont have to live with guilt and shame for never meeting the mark. Jesus cleansed me and continues to cleanse. I dont hold onto the past because he doesnt. I was "unblinded" when the scales of tradition, lies, deceit, false doctrine fell away! It started with me closely examining everything that was in my life and whether it was "real " or not. The more i dug the more i found out not to be true. When all that was pealed away i was left with only spirituality. Religion i found was the problem both with me and most of the world who are caught up in it. We do not need a church to know God. Thats all for now... ;D Did Jesus cleanse you? Did Jesus unblind you? May I call you Wings? (for short) I found the experience of seeking Truth and getting answers from above so amazing I still tremble at the experience. Perfect Love cast out fear. Facing things as they are without our bias and self-preference. What a thing of beauty is God's gift to his creation. How can the glory be missed so easily? Thanks for sharing about where your faith led you Wings. The part about clensing the shame and guilt is what turns a catipillar into a butterfly. Thanks for answering my questions. Many people don't know how!
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