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Post by taking notes on Aug 12, 2007 0:36:41 GMT -5
There is no written rule book for members of this group. Perhaps a study of 2x2ism will give the reader a better grasp on what this group believes about itself, as well as what it believes about Christians in general.
One thing to keep in mind as you read about the 2x2s is the devotion the 2x2s hold to their church. To them, it is important that they remain in it. If you were to invite a 2x2 to attend a different church, they would probably politely decline with a nice statement about their satisfaction with what they have.
You see, to them they cannot permit themselves to attend another church, for that would constitute "leaving their first love."
Their devotion to their church is sometimes equivalent to (if not above) their devotion to God, and the end result is a glorification of their church. By definition, anything which is a "God substitute," or takes the place of God through glorification, is an idol. Collectively, the 2x2 church is the 2x2's idol, for they regard both God and their membership as a 2x2 as critical to achieving salvation. This is in direct conflict to scriptures (John 3:16, Eph. 2:8).
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Post by guest12345 on Aug 12, 2007 0:55:39 GMT -5
Well put.
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Post by ii on Aug 12, 2007 1:33:53 GMT -5
badly put
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Post by guest12345 on Aug 12, 2007 1:39:22 GMT -5
Then, I guess it is just a matter of opinion and having been there for years and years, out for years, gone back for some years - I see the light and maintain my stand but respect how you feel also.
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Post by truth hurts on Aug 12, 2007 1:39:23 GMT -5
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Post by ii on Aug 12, 2007 1:49:06 GMT -5
what truth?
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Post by ii on Aug 12, 2007 1:51:21 GMT -5
Then, I guess it is just a matter of opinion and having been there for years and years, out for years, gone back for some years - I see the light and maintain my stand but respect how you feel also. becarefull you light is not darkness, so i ask how deep is your darkness?
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Post by exactly on Aug 12, 2007 2:09:44 GMT -5
what truth? Exactly. You're completely blinded by your faith in 2x2ism.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 2:36:29 GMT -5
*yawn* What? I'm just yawning!! (tired!) .... Anyway, to the OP..... I'm glad you included that "sometimes" in the beginning of the fourth paragraph. That implies not everyone, or not all the time. At best, it's very little to go on and not cutting the 2x2 *religion* much slack, but at least it's something. Thanks for that crumb. It's never a good idea to put an entire group of people in one nice, neat, tidy little box. People all have varying thoughts and feelings of their own you know..... M.
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Post by ii on Aug 12, 2007 3:03:10 GMT -5
what truth? Exactly. You're completely blinded by your faith in 2x2ism.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 12, 2007 3:43:29 GMT -5
Not true... when I was a kid I visited another church with some workers.
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Post by loulabell on Aug 12, 2007 6:25:00 GMT -5
idiotically put
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Post by IllinoisGal on Aug 12, 2007 8:43:28 GMT -5
My 2x2 friend accepted my invitation to come to church with me. So its not always true with all 2x2s that they wont visit another church. She has been in the 2x2s for 43 yrs
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2007 10:15:31 GMT -5
Regardless of whether or not friends will attend another church service, idolatry is a serious problem in our church. It's a subtle idolatry too. The first poster did a reasonable job in defining it.
2x2 idolatry is when folks love their church and workers more than God. Loving church and workers is not a bad thing, but when it exceeds a love for God (against the first commandment), it is idolatry.
Once one sees it the first time and opens their eyes, you see it manifested surprisingly commonly. I have seen people treat their 2x2 brethren horribly to "protect" the church or ministry. Gratitude expressed for meetings and workers in convention testimonies and prayers far outweigh expressions of gratitude for what God has done for people. Criticizing workers yields a greater negative reaction than criticizing Christ. People change their behaviour when the workers visit. These are all symptoms of idolatry, and there are more.
In our church we need a "Christ-first" movement.
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Post by agreed on Aug 12, 2007 10:20:25 GMT -5
*yawn* What? I'm just yawning!! (tired!) .... Anyway, to the OP..... I'm glad you included that "sometimes" in the beginning of the fourth paragraph. That implies not everyone, or not all the time. At best, it's very little to go on and not cutting the 2x2 *religion* much slack, but at least it's something. Thanks for that crumb. It's never a good idea to put an entire group of people in one nice, neat, tidy little box. People all have varying thoughts and feelings of their own you know..... M. Yes, agreed. Not all are in the same box. I'm glad you see it that way, that some do fit that description and hold 2x2ism in higher esteem than God Himself.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 12, 2007 11:14:36 GMT -5
Many 2x2s WILL visit the church of a friend when invited; the reason is usually bcs they hope that the friend will reciprocate and go with them to meetings. Usually, a friend will NOT go on a Sunday morning where they would have to miss their Sun am meeting.
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3
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Post by 3 on Aug 12, 2007 12:04:57 GMT -5
I want to point out that I have religious friends in churches other than the 2x2's who have extreme allegiance to their denomination. I have a Luthern friend who would never consider belonging to another denomination. "What was worked for my folks works for me!" Also, a Catholic friend who is extreme about her church.
This type of allegiance is a common characteristic found in any & all religions.
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Post by and so on Aug 12, 2007 12:41:39 GMT -5
I want to point out that I have religious friends in churches other than the 2x2's who have extreme allegiance to their denomination. I have a Luthern friend who would never consider belonging to another denomination. "What was worked for my folks works for me!" Also, a Catholic friend who is extreme about her church. This type of allegiance is a common characteristic found in any & all religions. Interesting. You are citing idolatry within "false churches" in order to justify idolatry within 2x2ism. Now that is a new trick.
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Post by ken coolidge on Aug 12, 2007 12:49:51 GMT -5
Some have not experienced Gods greatest gift in whatever church they belong. Those that have recieved the gift are living their life with God in the center and evidence of recieving that gift is the Love they have for all people not just those within their group.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 14:14:48 GMT -5
*yawn* What? I'm just yawning!! (tired!) .... Anyway, to the OP..... I'm glad you included that "sometimes" in the beginning of the fourth paragraph. That implies not everyone, or not all the time. At best, it's very little to go on and not cutting the 2x2 *religion* much slack, but at least it's something. Thanks for that crumb. It's never a good idea to put an entire group of people in one nice, neat, tidy little box. People all have varying thoughts and feelings of their own you know..... M. Yes, agreed. Not all are in the same box. I'm glad you see it that way, that some do fit that description and hold 2x2ism in higher esteem than God Himself. Don't twist my words; you know very well what I meant. However, in any religion, there are those who go about things the wrong way, so I suppose your statement applies. M.
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Post by freespirit on Aug 12, 2007 14:23:22 GMT -5
Dittoing Clearday here. I see some changes, but at times I've wondered if some people worship dress codes instead of God. IMO we would be much better off we would be if we showed love to one another instead of barfing up rule after rule on people. Jesus came to set us free--and the veil was torn so that we could go directly to God with questions and allow HIM to convict us and bless us and guide us. So... I'm still praying for a more Christ-centered vision for us all. peace, freespirit
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2007 15:21:13 GMT -5
Dittoing Clearday here. I see some changes, but at times I've wondered if some people worship dress codes instead of God. IMO we would be much better off we would be if we showed love to one another instead of barfing up rule after rule on people. Jesus came to set us free--and the veil was torn so that we could go directly to God with questions and allow HIM to convict us and bless us and guide us. So... I'm still praying for a more Christ-centered vision for us all. peace, freespirit I'm not certain that dropping dress codes is the answer even though most of the dress codes is nonsensical. In our part of the world, dress codes have greatly diminished in importance but people aren't closer to God from what I can see. It seems to me that the dropping of the dress code idolatry has simply shifted toward a greater meeting/ministry idolatry. Somehow we have to get off that track and back to Christ only, not Christ Plus.
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Post by nope on Aug 12, 2007 16:48:31 GMT -5
Yes, agreed. Not all are in the same box. I'm glad you see it that way, that some do fit that description and hold 2x2ism in higher esteem than God Himself. Don't twist my words; you know very well what I meant. However, in any religion, there are those who go about things the wrong way, so I suppose your statement applies. M. Your words were not twisted. You simply pointed out that the OP didn't apply to all. Therefore it applies to the others. That is not a twist of your words.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 17:15:11 GMT -5
As I said in the last line, I suppose it could apply to SOME others. There are zealots or those who have it wrong is most any religion, I imagine. Where we likely disagree now are the numbers on either side...... M.
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Post by and on Aug 12, 2007 18:40:55 GMT -5
and as you said in the first line "don't twist my words," which clearly states an accusation that your words were twisted. Your words were not twisted.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 18:43:22 GMT -5
Ok, then I'm sorry for saying that and retract that particular statement. I felt they were twisted to make YOUR point more than my own....that is what I meant. However, both points can be made with the same words I suppose....as I said though, I think we would disagree on how many believe the religion is more important than God. I'm fairly certain of that, as I'm sure you think a large number do and I do not, nor will I ever, think that. M.
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3
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Post by 3 on Aug 12, 2007 18:57:51 GMT -5
And so:
I am not a 2x2 so I am hardly justifying idolatry within 2x2ism!
If you want to call it idolatry - that's fine by me. I simply label it as a common characteristic shared by religions in general.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 19:51:51 GMT -5
3...which is exactly *my* point on this board much of the time. The things that the 2x2 religion gets attacked for happen in most ALL religions. No where does that read that I (or others) think that makes them OK OR justifies them...just a statement is all. To clarify, I do NOT think such things are ok...but most that have been mentioned do happen most everywhere....so why isolate the 2x2 religion? M. PS>.the last time someone answered that question, I got something to the effect of...."that's what we discuss on this board, etc..." Well, there are people of many varied religions on this board, so that reason doesn't really fly with me.... M.
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