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Post by prokoff on Aug 11, 2007 19:26:19 GMT -5
I don't profess, and never have. However, I have occasionally been attending 2x2 gospel meetings over the past several years. There seems to be a trend for there to be less bashing (on the part of workers) of "false churches" & of "counterfeit Christianity". In years past I can recall quite a bit of bashing, and put-downs of other Christians & other churches. Now the occasional put-downs are either not heard...or are considerably toned down from what I remember from years ago. Has anybody else, who attends gospel mtgs also noticed this trend....or is it just a localized phenomenon in my part of the world?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2007 19:38:16 GMT -5
I don't profess, and never have. However, I have occasionally been attending 2x2 gospel meetings over the past several years. There seems to be a trend for there to be less bashing (on the part of workers) of "false churches" & of "counterfeit Christianity". In years past I can recall quite a bit of bashing, and put-downs of other Christians & other churches. Now the occasional put-downs are either not heard...or are considerably toned down from what I remember from years ago. Has anybody else, who attends gospel mtgs also noticed this trend....or is it just a localized phenomenon in my part of the world? I don't know where your locale is, but I would say yes, church bashing has declined considerably over the years. It is not gone yet though, we had an eastern US worker do some church bashing in convention last month. It is difficult to know if this is just a policy change, or a change of heart. I suspect it is more of a policy matter, as the exclusivity doctrine remains predominant amongst most f&ws. One of the modern "tests" for whether or not someone is coming to salvation is when the new person expresses a view that this is the "only way", or that the workers have the monopoly on truth. Workers avoid giving people reason to think that, figuring that if exclusivity and church bashing isn't preached yet the new person starts to believe this is the "only way", they they have "got it". Strange, but true, I have seen this repeatedly in recent years.
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Post by prokoff on Aug 11, 2007 20:35:19 GMT -5
I have not attended a sunday morning, or bible study meeting in about 18 years. I can recall that their were rather frequent referrences on the part of the professing folk regarding deliverance from worldy churches, and simular sentiments expressed about finding truth. Can anybody enlighten me as to whether or not the "less bashing trend" also extends to these other meetings?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2007 20:40:55 GMT -5
I have not attended a sunday morning, or bible study meeting in about 18 years. I can recall that their were rather frequent referrences on the part of the professing folk regarding deliverance from worldy churches, and simular sentiments expressed about finding truth. Can anybody enlighten me as to whether or not the "less bashing trend" also extends to these other meetings? Definitely same trend except that the friends are more likely to openly bash than workers imo. You will almost never hear about deliverance from worldly churches because most friends are now b&r, but they may express something about deliverance from the "world". Another possible theory about the reduction in church bashing could be based on the fact that b&r friends and workers make up a higher proportion of the friends than at any other time of our history. So, there is now very little knowledge or experience of the mainstream churches within the meetings. Less awareness, less mention.
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Post by bert unlogged on Aug 11, 2007 20:54:22 GMT -5
We don't have much in the way of missions where we live, but if we were to go to such services and hear about other churches, we wouldn't go.
What other churches believe is not the purpose of the gospel. Bashing people's politics, religion or race, is not the correct spirit. I do not know workers who do this.
When I was growing up our elder would refer to the Catholic Church to illustrate the issue of law vs. grace. But this wasn't often, and he was the only person I recall doing so. Most don't even know about such beliefs.
Some of my non-professing relatives tended to be serious Catholic bashers, but that age has long passed now.
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Post by About Bashing on Aug 11, 2007 21:13:51 GMT -5
From an early thread "DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN" Do not know how to reference the post so I cut and paste. I think this is a clear example of bashing and exclusivity and that it is still happening.
Where is this person--Are they still around as I wanted to hear more
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Post by freespirit on Aug 11, 2007 21:59:58 GMT -5
Definitely less than it used to be. But I'm sad to say, there are still some our-Jesus-is-better-than-your-Jesus messages at times. I have this crazy untested theory that the workers are afraid that if they preached Jesus and Jesus only that the people will be up-in-arms doing all manner of behavior. Nothing could be further from what would happen--if only Jesus was preached (sans rules, bashing and just weirdo b.s.) the family would flourish rather than become sickly. But, that's just random thoughts from my offbeat mind. So...I'm still praying for a more Christ-centered vision for us all. peace, freespirit
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2007 7:53:57 GMT -5
Definitely less than it used to be. But I'm sad to say, there are still some our-Jesus-is-better-than-your-Jesus messages at times. I have this crazy untested theory that the workers are afraid that if they preached Jesus and Jesus only that the people will be up-in-arms doing all manner of behavior. Nothing could be further from what would happen--if only Jesus was preached (sans rules, bashing and just weirdo b.s.) the family would flourish rather than become sickly. But, that's just random thoughts from my offbeat mind. So...I'm still praying for a more Christ-centered vision for us all. peace, freespirit freespirit, you couldn't be righter (I know I know that's not a word but you get the idea!). My theme is: "workers should preach only, Jesus only." In spite of the tight rule system over children's activities and anti-divorce teachings, we have many young people running wild, families at odds, marriages sick and breaking up over abuse and infidelity. Some of the most perfect looking marriages are sick at the core. The old rule system is no longer working. Workers who design and enforce rules are only driving people from Christ. Workers who walk around with the "we are the only ones" and "we are your judges'' attitude are killing the spirit of Christ within those who admire them. Our faith is extremely fragile when it is focused on the workers and how "bad" the other Christians are. A new, Christ-centered vision is exactly what we need. Keep repeating!
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Post by Anonymous on Aug 12, 2007 10:53:49 GMT -5
freespirit, you couldn't be righter (I know I know that's not a word but you get the idea!). My theme is: "workers should preach only, Jesus only." To the friends and workers the whole system is Jesus.
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Post by individuals on Aug 12, 2007 12:30:20 GMT -5
I attended more of the Worker's Gospel meetings over the years than I care to remember. My observation was that "worldly church bashing" was a favorite pastime of certain Workers, but not others. It seemed to be an individual's fixation, rather than a concerted effort. In Michigan, we had the "odd couple" of Arnold Brown (area overseer) and Willie Jones. Arnold never pulled any punches when he railed against the sects, cults, and denominations of the World. Willie, on the other hand, was a kind and gentle soul who never said a bad word about anybody. I suppose it's possible that they had a "good cop, bad cop" routine going, but I sincerely doubt it. Anyone who had the privilege of knowing Willie would say that he was about the sweetest human being they'd ever met. Arnold, however, looked like he ate alum for breakfast every day. I think that anywhere you go, you'll find that the Workers express a bit of their own personalities in their sermons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2007 18:31:07 GMT -5
That's true. In John's epistles we see such a gentle man. But Jude rails against the false Christian churches quite bitterly.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 12, 2007 20:58:42 GMT -5
Howdy,
When John complained of another who was using Jesus' name, Jesus gave the following answer which I think still pertains until present times. 38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward. I really like how Jesus addresses this issue.Scott
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Post by Okay Scott on Aug 12, 2007 21:09:04 GMT -5
Howdy,
When John complained of another who was using Jesus' name, Jesus gave the following answer which I think still pertains until present times. 38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward. I really like how Jesus addresses this issue.Scott What if a church is teaching they are the only ones? Is that as bad as teaching that homosex is not a sin?
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Post by freespirit on Aug 12, 2007 21:11:32 GMT -5
[ I really like how Jesus addresses this issue.Scott me too, Scott. peace to all, freespirit
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 12, 2007 21:33:20 GMT -5
Howdy, From Okay Scott- What if a church is teaching they are the only ones? Is that as bad as teaching that homosex is not a sin?The 'church' I attend teaches and preaches about the 'Church'. It was very refreshing to hear our pastor in one of his sermons speak about how nice it is to go into any Christian church and be welcomed as a fellow Christian, no matter what denomination it is. Any 'church' who teaches that they are the only ones -I'm assuming that you mean saved here- is obviously a false religion, and thus could not perform miracles in the name of Jesus. As to a teaching that homosex is not a sin, that is not taught in my church and I don't understand the relevance in regard to what Jesus said to John. Scott
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Post by Scotty Scotty 2x4 on Aug 12, 2007 22:37:07 GMT -5
Howdy, From Okay Scott- What if a church is teaching they are the only ones? Is that as bad as teaching that homosex is not a sin?The 'church' I attend teaches and preaches about the 'Church'. It was very refreshing to hear our pastor in one of his sermons speak about how nice it is to go into any Christian church and be welcomed as a fellow Christian, no matter what denomination it is. Any 'church' who teaches that they are the only ones -I'm assuming that you mean saved here- is obviously a false religion, and thus could not perform miracles in the name of Jesus. As to a teaching that homosex is not a sin, that is not taught in my church and I don't understand the relevance in regard to what Jesus said to John. Scott I was thinking about the various ways the devil deceives. So if a church teaches and believes that homosexual is okay and they still welcome you with open arms (argh) A different "type" of false church?
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Post by to the misquoter on Aug 12, 2007 23:44:32 GMT -5
the devil also decieves via misquotes.
Scott did not say that his church teaches that homosexuality is okay.
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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 11:20:16 GMT -5
I don't profess, and never have. However, I have occasionally been attending 2x2 gospel meetings over the past several years. There seems to be a trend for there to be less bashing (on the part of workers) of "false churches" & of "counterfeit Christianity". In years past I can recall quite a bit of bashing, and put-downs of other Christians & other churches. Now the occasional put-downs are either not heard...or are considerably toned down from what I remember from years ago. Has anybody else, who attends gospel mtgs also noticed this trend....or is it just a localized phenomenon in my part of the world? I don't know where your locale is, but I would say yes, church bashing has declined considerably over the years. It is not gone yet though, we had an eastern US worker do some church bashing in convention last month. It is difficult to know if this is just a policy change, or a change of heart. I suspect it is more of a policy matter, as the exclusivity doctrine remains predominant amongst most f&ws. One of the modern "tests" for whether or not someone is coming to salvation is when the new person expresses a view that this is the "only way", or that the workers have the monopoly on truth. Workers avoid giving people reason to think that, figuring that if exclusivity and church bashing isn't preached yet the new person starts to believe this is the "only way", they they have "got it". Strange, but true, I have seen this repeatedly in recent years. Please don't take offense but since you know that the workers believe they have a monopoly on truth (and I DON"T KNOW the answer to that)...why do you support them if you disagree with this essential part of their beliefs? ? I'm confused.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 13, 2007 11:29:57 GMT -5
Howdy, From Scotty Scotty 2x4- (and I still fit through the bathroom door.... )I was thinking about the various ways the devil deceives. So if a church teaches and believes that homosexual is okay and they still welcome you with open arms (argh) A different "type" of false church?I feel that I am being trapped into saying something here. Kinda like the mouse discovering a mysterious pile of peanut butter, cheese and popcorn all heaped on a piece of wood just outside the mouse hole going Hmmmmm......I too often think of the ways Satan tries to deceive us. After all, if he took Jesus up on the mountain and tried to deceive him, I'm pretty sure he is every day after the rest of us also.....If one looks around hard enough, they can probably find a church that will fit into what they believe in. The church I go to DOES NOT preach that homosexuality is okay. However, everyone is welcome to attend our church. I am always surprised at how many people seem to think that their 'church' has the right to exclude people that they feel are 'sinners'.I think that I will start a new thread about casting stones as I have seen that come up several times lately. Scott
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