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Post by snow on Feb 27, 2024 16:38:33 GMT -5
I don't think I want to work for eternity either. Do you? It’s NOT work! But an adventure full of wonders for eternity…. Can you imagine you go and visit far, far away billions of planets in each trillions galaxies and meetings all kinds of intelligence races of beings to help them to attain eternal life for them and their families. You did say we would work the rest of the week. I am rather confused. Is heaven a place where we go or do we just stay here in this current universe and carry on as per usual except we will have space travel. Also, are all these other intelligent aliens made in the image of your god? If the world is ended then why would you be still trying to safe all these aliens?
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 27, 2024 16:47:20 GMT -5
I just red a bunch of post on Facebook by ex 2x2's.. Many complaining about the abuse they suffered through while in the Truth. These weren't people who were sexually assaulted or molested by anyone, but for some reason felt like they were abused? I don't get it. I think some people just thought it was too strict or didn't like the rules, but that's not abuse. Lots of 'poor baby' people who suffered nothing and are just looking for sympathy. They brag about the freedom they're experiencing now as though they just got out of prison or something. Then other ex-truthers congratulate them on their courage. They weren't prisoners, they just left a church, so I don't get all the commiserating going on about that? I guess they just found an excuse to attack something that didn't suit them and want to use that opportunity to jump on the bandwagon? Quite the scene for whiners. You don't have to get it, their experiences and feelings are real, wether you agree with it or not. Your enthusiasm to invalidate their experiences because they are not your experiences, and label them as whiners is bigotry at its finest. To a point, I can understand Dan's point of view, and have thought similar things from time to time. It's part of the blame and cancel culture that society has.
However, as Fixit points out, and Curly and Mrdobolina know, for many it is like they are abandoning their life support structure, and it is a very real and traumatic thing. I know of someone very high up in business and political circles who, years after exiting, still struggles with PTSD from it, parents and relative's disowning etc. It was horrid.
Empathy is is something that we Christians need in our toolbox, and I admit to having to work at it.
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Post by Annan on Feb 27, 2024 17:23:54 GMT -5
I want to give a shout out to RKO! Thanks, for creating your and mine message board. Millions and billions of people around the world will thank you for it. Serious LOL! Keep dreaming.
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Post by snow on Feb 27, 2024 17:29:17 GMT -5
Many of those that are currently leaving and having a real tough time are those who have professed for 50 60 years. Being in the fellowship is definitely a lifestyle and leaving is a huge step and shock. It was a culture shock when I left at 17 so I have no idea how hard it is for these folks. Watching the zoom the other night I saw couples in their 80's. So if you think these people are whiners when they are saying how hard this is for them, I beg to differ. I would never call them whiners but people that are going through a huge life altering change and are lost, not knowing what to do.
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Post by chuck on Feb 27, 2024 18:11:34 GMT -5
You can Nathan out of the work, but you can't take the work out of Nathan. He continues to to try to intimidate, threaten, harass, oppress and persecute people for not believing what he believes. This is what the workers do best (or worst). He may have left the work, but he still continues to hold the mindset of a worker. "You are wrong, I am right and I will argue it until I look and sound like a stupid fool, but I am right and you are wrong so it doesn't really matter how stupid I look and sound." Not all workers, but certainly some, and he's a past master at it. I reckon the ones that don't will either end up leaving or have a mental breakdown. Maybe im just cynical as nothing is changing here at all.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 27, 2024 18:22:30 GMT -5
If the FBI investigation moves into the area of Financial impropriety and thereby laundering and tax evasion, then not only will it turn things upside down in the US, but it will spread to other countries through their own agencies. I have seen reports of the investigation spreading to Oz already.
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Post by guest8 on Feb 27, 2024 18:49:06 GMT -5
You don't have to get it, their experiences and feelings are real, wether you agree with it or not. Your enthusiasm to invalidate their experiences because they are not your experiences, and label them as whiners is bigotry at its finest. To a point, I can understand Dan's point of view, and have thought similar things from time to time. It's part of the blame and cancel culture that society has.
However, as Fixit points out, and Curly and Mrdobolina know, for many it is like they are abandoning their life support structure, and it is a very real and traumatic thing. I know of someone very high up in business and political circles who, years after exiting, still struggles with PTSD from it, parents and relative's disowning etc. It was horrid.
Empathy is is something that we Christians need in our toolbox, and I admit to having to work at it.
As I have commented quite a while ago. I understand there are those that find it difficult to let go of the past but there is a difference between those that discuss their feelings & difficulties than those who continually bash on with vindictive generalisations about ‘all the people’ in the church and accuse ‘all members’ of being enablers. And I understand, only by reading here, that some of those overseas overseers definitely need the boot. There is no need to be obsessively nasty and full of vitriol towards ‘ all the people’ in any church or fellowship, where there are these S.A or CSAbusers.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 27, 2024 19:43:26 GMT -5
To a point, I can understand Dan's point of view, and have thought similar things from time to time. It's part of the blame and cancel culture that society has.
However, as Fixit points out, and Curly and Mrdobolina know, for many it is like they are abandoning their life support structure, and it is a very real and traumatic thing. I know of someone very high up in business and political circles who, years after exiting, still struggles with PTSD from it, parents and relative's disowning etc. It was horrid.
Empathy is is something that we Christians need in our toolbox, and I admit to having to work at it.
As I have commented quite a while ago. I understand there are those that find it difficult to let go of the past but there is a difference between those that discuss their feelings & difficulties than those who continually bash on with vindictive generalisations about ‘all the people’ in the church and accuse ‘all members’ of being enablers. And I understand, only by reading here, that some of those overseas overseers definitely need the boot. There is no need to be obsessively nasty and full of vitriol towards ‘ all the people’ in any church or fellowship, where there are these S.A or CSAbusers. Unfortunately, that seems to be a trait in human nature. Some people are like that to various groups. I know of people like that towards Hare Krishnas, and yet I find them, generally, to be lovely.
From what I can gather, it seems as if our NZ overseer has a good reputation in dealing with CSA, and certainly seems to be a "mover and shaker" when it comes to removing perpetrators. My wife heard him at a funeral recently and was impressed with his humility and "words from the heart".
Maybe he could have acted faster on some things, and maybe there is a lot more to do, but I am not apprised of the facts that he would be.
I know of lovely old people who just don't understand CSA, and seem to feel more sorry for the perpetrators than the victims. Often it is because they know the perp, and not the victim, and then in their innocence, just don't understand what goes on. This is not peculiar to the 2*2 church.
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Post by guest8 on Feb 27, 2024 19:51:48 GMT -5
As I have commented quite a while ago. I understand there are those that find it difficult to let go of the past but there is a difference between those that discuss their feelings & difficulties than those who continually bash on with vindictive generalisations about ‘all the people’ in the church and accuse ‘all members’ of being enablers. And I understand, only by reading here, that some of those overseas overseers definitely need the boot. There is no need to be obsessively nasty and full of vitriol towards ‘ all the people’ in any church or fellowship, where there are these S.A or CSAbusers. Unfortunately, that seems to be a trait in human nature. Some people are like that to various groups. I know of people like that towards Hare Krishnas, and yet I find them, generally, to be lovely.
From what I can gather, it seems as if our NZ overseer has a good reputation in dealing with CSA, and certainly seems to be a "mover and shaker" when it comes to removing perpetrators. My wife heard him at a funeral recently and was impressed with his humility and "words from the heart".
Maybe he could have acted faster on some things, and maybe there is a lot more to do, but I am not apprised of the facts that he would be.
I know of lovely old people who just don't understand CSA, and seem to feel more sorry for the perpetrators than the victims. Often it is because they know the perp, and not the victim, and then in their innocence, just don't understand what goes on. This is not peculiar to the 2*2 church.
Yes, I have heard well of WD but according to some, your lovely wife would be called 'an enabler'. ( Especially if she had a coffee with them, it appears to some).
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Post by Dan on Feb 27, 2024 23:11:51 GMT -5
I just red a bunch of post on Facebook by ex 2x2's.. Many complaining about the abuse they suffered through while in the Truth. These weren't people who were sexually assaulted or molested by anyone, but for some reason felt like they were abused? I don't get it. I think some people just thought it was too strict or didn't like the rules, but that's not abuse. Lots of 'poor baby' people who suffered nothing and are just looking for sympathy. They brag about the freedom they're experiencing now as though they just got out of prison or something. Then other ex-truthers congratulate them on their courage. They weren't prisoners, they just left a church, so I don't get all the commiserating going on about that? I guess they just found an excuse to attack something that didn't suit them and want to use that opportunity to jump on the bandwagon? Quite the scene for whiners. They weren't prisoners, they just left a church, so I don't get all the commiserating going on about that?To most, it's very much more than "just a church". For many, it's their culture. It's their life. How many generations of your forebears were in the church Dan? NoneHow many generations of your wife's forebears were in the church? NoneHow many generations of your siblings spouses were in the church? NoneHow many of your children are in the church? Their spouses? NoneWhat percentage of your friends are in the church? Most disassociated with me after I left
I get that its a change in life style and all, but I just don't classify that as abuse. But as you can see from my answers, it was never woven into my psyche, so it was not a traumatic adjustment to step out. My oath wasn't to the church, but to God.
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Post by Dan on Feb 27, 2024 23:35:21 GMT -5
I just red a bunch of post on Facebook by ex 2x2's.. Many complaining about the abuse they suffered through while in the Truth. These weren't people who were sexually assaulted or molested by anyone, but for some reason felt like they were abused? I don't get it. I think some people just thought it was too strict or didn't like the rules, but that's not abuse. Lots of 'poor baby' people who suffered nothing and are just looking for sympathy. They brag about the freedom they're experiencing now as though they just got out of prison or something. Then other ex-truthers congratulate them on their courage. They weren't prisoners, they just left a church, so I don't get all the commiserating going on about that? I guess they just found an excuse to attack something that didn't suit them and want to use that opportunity to jump on the bandwagon? Quite the scene for whiners. You don't have to get it, their experiences and feelings are real, wether you agree with it or not. Your enthusiasm to invalidate their experiences because they are not your experiences, and label them as whiners is bigotry at its finest.
I didn't say their experiences weren't real, I just don't label those experiences as abuse. When your free to come and go as you wish, and when you can voluntarily choose to attend a church or leave it, how is that abuse?
I'm aware that there can be some psychosomatic disorders resulting from being indoctrinated, but a persons inability to adjust outside of that environment would seem to be self-inflicted.
Some of those habitual complainers on FB were just blaming the church for their own emotional turmoil. No one tricked them or forced anything upon them, they were simply convinced of something that they later rejected. Maybe they regret wasting part of their life in the Truth, or maybe they experienced guilt when they left? But the complaint that, "I didn't agree with them, so they abused me" is a flimsy excuse for claiming to have been mistreated.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 28, 2024 3:10:24 GMT -5
You don't have to get it, their experiences and feelings are real, wether you agree with it or not. Your enthusiasm to invalidate their experiences because they are not your experiences, and label them as whiners is bigotry at its finest.
I didn't say their experiences weren't real, I just don't label those experiences as abuse. When your free to come and go as you wish, and when you can voluntarily choose to attend a church or leave it, how is that abuse?
I'm aware that there can be some psychosomatic disorders resulting from being indoctrinated, but a persons inability to adjust outside of that environment would seem to be self-inflicted.
Some of those habitual complainers on FB were just blaming the church for their own emotional turmoil. No one tricked them or forced anything upon them, they were simply convinced of something that they later rejected. Maybe they regret wasting part of their life in the Truth, or maybe they experienced guilt when they left? But the complaint that, "I didn't agree with them, so they abused me" is a flimsy excuse for claiming to have been mistreated.
You are not just free to come and go. Everyone knows that if you leave, you may be required to go through the whole professing/baptism ritual again.
The trauma that some go through, because of familial ostracisation is very real, and hurtful. I have also heard of Wills being altered so that an ex gets disinherited.
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Post by haggard on Feb 28, 2024 3:41:03 GMT -5
this is just an off hand concern...but dont you think its only fair that the workers get a list of preferred foods that the workers like...so the friends dont go buy a whole lot of food and treats to take to the ones going to jail.?..the workers here give a food list at the start of each gospel season...l know some prisons are gluten free,,and peanut intolerant...salted or not..and who would want to have to go back home with a whole bunch of unsalted peanuts..!!?? ... l think its only fair the worker send a letter to each field with a food list of preferred diets..since there will surely be lots reported to the FBI
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Post by deepdeep on Feb 28, 2024 13:01:51 GMT -5
I didn't say their experiences weren't real, I just don't label those experiences as abuse. When your free to come and go as you wish, and when you can voluntarily choose to attend a church or leave it, how is that abuse?
I'm aware that there can be some psychosomatic disorders resulting from being indoctrinated, but a persons inability to adjust outside of that environment would seem to be self-inflicted.
Some of those habitual complainers on FB were just blaming the church for their own emotional turmoil. No one tricked them or forced anything upon them, they were simply convinced of something that they later rejected. Maybe they regret wasting part of their life in the Truth, or maybe they experienced guilt when they left? But the complaint that, "I didn't agree with them, so they abused me" is a flimsy excuse for claiming to have been mistreated.
You are not just free to come and go. Everyone knows that if you leave, you may be required to go through the whole professing/baptism ritual again.
The trauma that some go through, because of familial ostracisation is very real, and hurtful. I have also heard of Wills being altered so that an ex gets disinherited.
There seems to be a broad spectrum of experiences of those in this group. This phenomenon makes the task of how to classify behavior very difficult. Imagine a largely untraumatized (at least by the church) catholic family. It will be very difficult to convince them that the Catholic Church is, at it's core, a vehicle for abusing kids. This will be the case even as they notice that the system they are participating in is far from perfect. Now, are they free to leave?...have they been indoctrinated? What do we mean by indoctrinated? If a person from that family makes the choice to remain a participant through the years as abuse continued to come to light ... have they been indoctrinated? From where I sit...having listed to first hand testimonies of folks who left, and from reading/following the AFTT and Wings conversations, I don't see the church as the most important common variable....I see the family system as the primary explainer here. By that I mean that families with generational ties in 2x2ism seem much more likely to have issues with enmeshment that would skirt the line of indoctrination, if not cross it completely. Did 2x2ism create those systems?...I don't imagine they did, but they surely have sustained them and profited off of them. It's like the ruling class (the workers) have parasitized a group of people over the years who were generally on the lower end of the socio-economic ladder (at least historically...seems to be lots of well off 2x2ers nowadays). Though it seems parasitical ...It looks like it isn't totally that way. The system does appear give people a sense of meaning, belonging and community that is not contingent on class.....Nothing remarkable about that...functioning social groups throughout history have done that. I see enough people with Dan's opinion that I would be surprised to find it completely false. His claim to his experience does not invalidate the experience of somebody who feels indoctrinated. Both Dan and the person who feels indoctrinated could also be mistaken. **I re-read this and I may come to regret my use of the term " parasitized". I'm leaving it as is but I realize it has a connotation that I don't really intend. parasitization is not a moral term for me. It merely connotes the condition wherein an entity or system could not exist without another entity or system while the relied upon entity or system realizes no benefit from the relationship.
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Post by mrdobalina on Feb 28, 2024 14:56:50 GMT -5
You don't have to get it, their experiences and feelings are real, wether you agree with it or not. Your enthusiasm to invalidate their experiences because they are not your experiences, and label them as whiners is bigotry at its finest.
I didn't say their experiences weren't real, I just don't label those experiences as abuse. When your free to come and go as you wish, and when you can voluntarily choose to attend a church or leave it, how is that abuse?
I'm aware that there can be some psychosomatic disorders resulting from being indoctrinated, but a persons inability to adjust outside of that environment would seem to be self-inflicted.
Some of those habitual complainers on FB were just blaming the church for their own emotional turmoil. No one tricked them or forced anything upon them, they were simply convinced of something that they later rejected. Maybe they regret wasting part of their life in the Truth, or maybe they experienced guilt when they left? But the complaint that, "I didn't agree with them, so they abused me" is a flimsy excuse for claiming to have been mistreated.
We're you ever told that 2x2 was the one true way with direct lineage to jesus? Were you ever told you would burn in hell if you left the 2x2 etc etc? Some people are just discovering the William Irvine story and are well pissed off, and they believe quite correctly that they were decieved by this, and everything else surrounding it. They have been guilt tripped and gaslighted for everything from wearing shorts, having a radio antenna on their car, wearing the wrong colors, hair style, to divorce and everything in between, and you think that's not abuse or damaging to a person? I'm pleased that you feel you have come through unscathed. I guess you are aware that this bizarre and controlling cult with no rules is far harder emotionally on females than males.
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Post by Dan on Feb 29, 2024 0:15:13 GMT -5
I didn't say their experiences weren't real, I just don't label those experiences as abuse. When your free to come and go as you wish, and when you can voluntarily choose to attend a church or leave it, how is that abuse?
I'm aware that there can be some psychosomatic disorders resulting from being indoctrinated, but a persons inability to adjust outside of that environment would seem to be self-inflicted.
Some of those habitual complainers on FB were just blaming the church for their own emotional turmoil. No one tricked them or forced anything upon them, they were simply convinced of something that they later rejected. Maybe they regret wasting part of their life in the Truth, or maybe they experienced guilt when they left? But the complaint that, "I didn't agree with them, so they abused me" is a flimsy excuse for claiming to have been mistreated.
You are not just free to come and go. Everyone knows that if you leave, you may be required to go through the whole professing/baptism ritual again.
The trauma that some go through, because of familial ostracisation is very real, and hurtful. I have also heard of Wills being altered so that an ex gets disinherited.
Speaking for myself, I freely went to mtgs and I freely stopped going to meetings, so I'd disagree. If another church required me to be re-baptized, I would consider that an inconvenience and not abuse.
I was never ostracized, I was just not included in things that I no longer had an interest in, which was understandable. Shared interest and belief is what holds a group together. When a person steps out, its generally them who no longer fits in. That's not abuse, its just a socially awkward situation when a group that's single-minded of purpose interacts with the odd man out. But that should be expected when you disassociate yourself from a common belief.
Being removed from a Will (disinherited) would be a form of financial abuse. Punishing someone for leaving a church is religious discrimination, so I'd agree with you there.
<abbr data-timestamp="1709150210000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Feb 28, 2024 13:56:50 GMT -6">Feb 28, 2024 13:56:50 GMT -6</abbr> mrdobalina said: We're you ever told that 2x2 was the one true way with direct lineage to jesus? Were you ever told you would burn in hell if you left the 2x2 etc etc? Some people are just discovering the William Irvine story and are well pissed off, and they believe quite correctly that they were decieved by this, and everything else surrounding it. They have been guilt tripped and gaslighted for everything from wearing shorts, having a radio antenna on their car, wearing the wrong colors, hair style, to divorce and everything in between, and you think that's not abuse or damaging to a person? I'm pleased that you feel you have come through unscathed. I guess you are aware that this bizarre and controlling cult with no rules is far harder emotionally on females than males.
Yes, I was told and shown why the ministry complied with how Jesus sent his disciples out to preach, that's what initially attracted us to the Truth.. No threats of hell though. I was ignorant of the William Irvine story, so that had no bearing on my decision to depart the Way. All the silly rules you mentioned did persuade me to leave, along with the anti-trinity doctrine. But the superficial dress codes and separating yourself from the world were just things that they believed were important. I did not construe that to be abuse, it was just something that I personally didn't subscribe to or understand.
I know that it becomes a way of life for people born and raised in it, but I guess I was never indoctrinated to that extent. I also understand the emotional connection and bonds, its almost like family and can be difficult to separate from them. But is it abusive if a Mormon decides to leave the Latter Day Saints because they decided Joseph Smith was a quack and they didn't want to wear the magic underwear anymore?
Like-minded people are persuaded of the same things, and that exclusivity can't embrace outsiders who refuse to comply with the rules. Consider what they may think of your refusal to go along to get along? Refusing to accept, respect, and abide by the rules is rude, abusive, and an obstruction to the group.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 29, 2024 2:38:14 GMT -5
I have heard from people on the ground that an Elder and his wife in Queensland were ex-communicated by a Kiwi worker (KLP) now resident in Oz, for sharing information with his church that the FBI were conducting an investigation. Another couple asked the same worker about the reasons why, and are now shunned by that worker. (Won't even shake hands after their mission) They feel that they will be next.
At the same time Ray Hoffman is telling the friends, with Barry Berkley, that as many people as possible need to be told about the investigation, and to fully co-operate, as they hey are.
Same the world over? Me thinks not.
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Post by mrdobalina on Feb 29, 2024 2:53:47 GMT -5
I have heard from people on the ground that an Elder and his wife in Queensland were ex-communicated by a Kiwi worker (KLP) now resident in Oz, for sharing information with his church that the FBI were conducting an investigation. Another couple asked the same worker about the reasons why, and are now shunned by that worker. (Won't even shake hands after their mission) They feel that they will be next. At the same time Ray Hoffman is telling the friends, with Barry Berkley, that as many people as possible need to be told about the investigation, and to fully co-operate, as they hey are. Same the world over? Me thinks not. I've never been more pleased that I'm not a part of this.
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Post by matisse on Feb 29, 2024 3:01:38 GMT -5
I have heard from people on the ground that an Elder and his wife in Queensland were ex-communicated by a Kiwi worker (KLP) now resident in Oz, for sharing information with his church that the FBI were conducting an investigation. Another couple asked the same worker about the reasons why, and are now shunned by that worker. (Won't even shake hands after their mission) They feel that they will be next. At the same time Ray Hoffman is telling the friends, with Barry Berkley, that as many people as possible need to be told about the investigation, and to fully co-operate, as they hey are. Same the world over? Me thinks not. I don't know if Barry and Ray are fundamentally different from the workers down under. What is different is that Barry and Ray are suddenly looking down the barrel of the FBI. Business as usual now puts them at risk of being charged with obstruction of justice. If they cooperate early in the investigation, they may be able to negotiate a plea deal, if need be.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 29, 2024 3:40:09 GMT -5
I have heard from people on the ground that an Elder and his wife in Queensland were ex-communicated by a Kiwi worker (KLP) now resident in Oz, for sharing information with his church that the FBI were conducting an investigation. Another couple asked the same worker about the reasons why, and are now shunned by that worker. (Won't even shake hands after their mission) They feel that they will be next. At the same time Ray Hoffman is telling the friends, with Barry Berkley, that as many people as possible need to be told about the investigation, and to fully co-operate, as they hey are. Same the world over? Me thinks not. I don't know if Barry and Ray are fundamentally different from the workers down under. What is different is that Barry and Ray are suddenly looking down the barrel of the FBI. Business as usual now puts them at risk of being charged with obstruction of justice. If they cooperate early in the investigation, they may be able to negotiate a plea deal, if need be. Oh yes, I am well aware of their reputation and why they are saying this.My point was the difference between their position, and people in Oz being ex-communicated for holding the same position.
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Post by SharonArnold on Feb 29, 2024 23:52:46 GMT -5
It's like the ruling class (the workers) have parasitized a group of people over the years... **I re-read this and I may come to regret my use of the term " parasitized". I'm leaving it as is but I realize it has a connotation that I don't really intend. parasitization is not a moral term for me. It merely connotes the condition wherein an entity or system could not exist without another entity or system while the relied upon entity or system realizes no benefit from the relationship. As a B&R ex, I think your descriptor of a parasitic ruling class is very apt, on more levels than you possibly know. I'm glad that you didn't change it.
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Post by Lee on Feb 29, 2024 23:59:02 GMT -5
Perhaps the most unique aspect of the 2x2 extends from the asceticism a worker assumes. Asceticism isn’t anything in itself, but it can reveal something notable when one understands the mark of the beast and Babylon the Great mutually control mankind through economic reward and necessity.
On a rudimentary but common level, have the 2x2 offered some level of reprieve, - historically and spiritually, from the twisted usurpation of Gods creation?
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Post by snow on Mar 1, 2024 16:49:49 GMT -5
God dosent want anything. This whole debacle was caused by Dean Bruer being caught dead with his pants around his ankles. But hey, as long as other churches and pastors are committing csa that kind of makes it OK for your lot to be caught dosent it. The 2x2 are done, next generation won't buy the bs anymore. The 2x2s are NOT done now or ever! Keep my words in the back burner of your head, the 2x2s will grow and prosper in GREAT numbers once the Zero tolerance of CSA and SA, the Anti-Trinity teachings, Jesus is NOT God eliminate from the ministry and fellowship. The overseers, the church elders and the friends KNOW the FBI is watching/monitoring them very closely. They are NOT going to put up with 2x2 nonsense! Oh, we didn’t understand how awful CSA is, jail time for them if they try to sweep under the carpet like in the past. Those days are gone! No more free get out of jail card. This time some of them will DIE in prison for sure. Like Jesus said to the apostles upon this ROCK! I will build my church and the gates of HELL shall NOT overcome or able to destroy it. Good luck! With your mortal feeble mind trying to destroy God the Father, Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic New Test. ministry and the fellowship. The RCC Tried it for almost 1800 years to wipe it off the face of the earth and they failed miserably! Just like the Nephilim/giants around the world in Enoch and Noah’s days tried to wipe out humans DNA People so, the Messiah couldn’t be born to SAVE mankind from sinful natures, which lead them to the lake of fire= Eternal separation fromHod’s presence forever. God and Christ flood the whole world to Drown most of Giants children of 200 fallen angels and the sinful mortal women corrupted DNA. Christ’s DNA can’t be mixed with the serpent seed of Cain/Satan and the corrupt Nephilim/Fallen angels DNA! Then Jesus couldn’t be the PERFECT sacrificial Lamb of God for the atonement of the mortal sinners. It had to be Christ/God spirit mixed with the creation/being Adam/Eve He Created in His image and Likeness to come together to impart the NEWNESS of resurrection bodies! The cocoon turns into a beautiful butter fly. If they will thrive once they have zero tolerance then they will never thrive. They will never bring in zero tolerance because many of the overseers are implicated in abuse. Another one just the other day. Overseer of Alberta during the excommunications has allegations and the current overseer of Saskatchewan made the kid apologize to his abuser in front of him, Shultz and WP. They have all got dirt on them so how can they enforce zero tolerance. That would mean some of them couldn't attend. Can't be having that.
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 576
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Post by magpies39plus on Mar 1, 2024 19:21:10 GMT -5
In Victoria (Australian State) when I was in it this was a ministry rife with both men/women preachers who were known as ones we must avoid? This was our common subject as teens. To see a young girl in uncontrollable tears because a certain lady preacher as returning to their district? AS A VICTIM I CAN SAY THESE THINGS. Used to be horrified to know that the preacher preaching from the platform was one that was happy to have a handful of a young boy or girls crutch. THINK ABOUT IT? GOD"S TRUE SERVANT"S"? In this State 2x preachers were given jail sentences,only a few years ago? To see headlines like this = "A NAMELESS INSULAR RELIGIOUS SECT IS BEING ROCKED BY A MASSIVE SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDLE" Godly stuff? Years ago a man belted his son with a shovel because he found out he was a homosexual ( not knowing he actually was paedophile) What do you do then?? OH,, you join an unbiblical celibate ministry,yep,you can hide there? Years later he was one of those named by Ian Parker who raped him,,this just prior to Ian'd self inflicted death? THE UNATURAL ATTRACTS THE UNNATURAL !!! The natural = 1 Corinthians 9 v 5/6 is one example of "natural". Come on don't hide your head or heart in the sand? Stop your pages of back and forth justification to a ministry that rivals the celibate Roman Catholic ministry for unnatural,illegal,immoral sexual depravations,etc in "PERCENTAGE"?
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Post by fixit on Mar 2, 2024 0:00:08 GMT -5
If they will thrive once they have zero tolerance then they will never thrive. They will never bring in zero tolerance because many of the overseers are implicated in abuse. Another one just the other day. Overseer of Alberta during the excommunications has allegations and the current overseer of Saskatchewan made the kid apologize to his abuser in front of him, Shultz and WP. They have all got dirt on them so how can they enforce zero tolerance. That would mean some of them couldn't attend. Can't be having that. According to Dale Shultz these are "a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well." www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/shultz-AB.phpTo have a right attitude towards God we are expected to overlook their evil.
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Post by snow on Mar 2, 2024 14:53:23 GMT -5
If they will thrive once they have zero tolerance then they will never thrive. They will never bring in zero tolerance because many of the overseers are implicated in abuse. Another one just the other day. Overseer of Alberta during the excommunications has allegations and the current overseer of Saskatchewan made the kid apologize to his abuser in front of him, Shultz and WP. They have all got dirt on them so how can they enforce zero tolerance. That would mean some of them couldn't attend. Can't be having that. According to Dale Shultz these are "a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well." www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/shultz-AB.phpTo have a right attitude towards God we are expected to overlook their evil. That letter is so enlightening to understand exactly their mindset for decades and why they protected abusers and excommunicated and abused the survivors. Just because a worker does something wrong doesn't mean we aren't supposed to respect them because they are above the friends in the lord!
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Post by ForeverFree on Mar 2, 2024 19:16:19 GMT -5
Now we are finding out that he also made a 10 year old boy who had allegedly been assaulted by WP apologize to WP in front of him and JA who is currently overseer in Saskatchewan. He has so much to answer for it makes me ill. I presume that is the JA who was invited to conventions down under (last northern winter) and then disinvited. Jim Atcheson, yes, that would be him. Jim has built up his own large list of what to answer for. So many things are tainted in his name as well. He may not have physically done harm, but he has full knowledge of and was privy to the secrets of abuse. He's just as guilty. These overseers are all sinners, and false prophets.
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Post by Admin on Mar 3, 2024 0:31:12 GMT -5
Off topic posts moved to Jump on Board.
(topic of this thread is FBI 2x2 Investigation)
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