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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:00:48 GMT -5
Some relevant posts from elsewhere, collected here. (assuming maryhig's views are representative)
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:01:18 GMT -5
What happens to non believers then in your belief? Do they also go to God? Or do they just die and become one with the earth again like I believe all people do when they die? I believe that we all go to God and then he decides what to do with us. I think God looks at the heart I'm not here to judge, his word does that. You could have a better heart than me, he's the judge and he'll decide where we will all go, me included. I don't see myself going to heaven and lots of other people going to hell. I care about everyone and want you all in heaven and I'm on the same journey in this life as everyone else is. And I know that I have to endure to the end to be saved so I can't say that I'm already saved. Although I'm being saved in the here and now from the ways of this world as God helps me daily to overcome. And I hope one day you do believe, because I know he's there and I hope that one day you see that too.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:10:12 GMT -5
I guess I view it differently. Knowing what I know about science I don't see the world being made perfectly for us, but rather, we are the product of will survive in the universe we are in. If the earth was different we would be different and because it was the environment that supported us. The earth wasn't made to be perfect for us. We are the product of what the earth could sustain as life. See I believe that we are here for a reason, and I know there is life after this one. But even if I didn't know, I would have to think how? How on earth could this all come into existence without a greater mind behind it all? How can something so complex that works together to keep everything going work without a creator? I just see that it's impossible for it to happen, we have to have been created. A lot of what goes wrong in this world is by humans, we create much of our problems. As I've said before, God gives us the water fresh from the sky, the air clean to breathe, the ground fertile to grow, and we pollute the environment around us. We cause many of the things that are wrong in this world, and then say "why would God do this and that?" We have free will, we aren't robots and we have a choice every day, do what's right or do what's wrong. This world as beautiful as it is, but it's also the dwelling place of Satan, he's in the hearts of people, we are the dust that God speaks of when he says to the devil that dust will be the food of your days, that's IF we let him, if we do wrong and fall for the temptations of this world, if we let him in and feed our lusts, if we do these things then he's got a hold of our hearts. Jesus taught us to let go, let go of the nonsense of the world, the building up in it, wanting the best of everything, wanting power, loving ourselves, the pride of life, wanting better than our neighbour, not helping one another, greed, selfishness, hatred, hardness, spite, jealousy, covetness, etc, these are the fleshy lusts that the devil feeds off, but with God we can overcome them, they are all vanity but with God all things are possible, we can let go of all this with God. The wrong things that go on in this world happen because we allow it, not because God does it. We can change the world and Jesus showed us the way. We have a choice, obey God or obey Satan and as Joshua said, choose this day whom you serve. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:25:25 GMT -5
Mary, it's not that simple, the word believe in this context is something you act out. I wont boast in something I do not live up to. Here is a great piece of advice. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. This is not a language problem, it means do not boast in the characteristics of the LORD and then act otherwise. I try to be those things, the reality is sometimes I am sometimes I'm not. The best answer I can give you is I try to act accordingly as those characteristics generally lead to the best outcomes in life. Mary, it's not that simple, the word believe in this context is something you act out. I wont boast in something I do not live up to. Here is a great piece of advice. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. This is not a language problem, it means do not boast in the characteristics of the LORD and then act otherwise. I try to be those things, the reality is sometimes I am sometimes I'm not. The best answer I can give you is I try to act accordingly as those characteristics generally lead to the best outcomes in life. But it's simple chuck, we either believe or we don't? Yes or no. Many don't believe as I do, but I still believe in God regardless of what they believe. Even the verse you have quoted says the LORD "THY" God, which clearly means "your God." So you either believe that God is your God or you don't? Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. I think you believe in the old testament because you refer to it often, yet they called the LORD God their God. Look what Joshua and the people of Israel said, they clearly saw the LORD as their God. So when we say the LORD we mean God. So why can't you say the LORD is your God? It's either you believe the LORD is your God or you don't. It is as simple as that. Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 24:17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 24:18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:26:43 GMT -5
IMO, atheism is the "meat" of the word, that most Christians are not prepared to partake of. For some time now, I have appreciated Chuck's pov as a Christian (yes, Admin , maryhig , and nathan2 , who are ANY of you to decide who can call him or herself a Christian?). I find Chuck's pov refreshing, thoughtful, coming from a place of dedication to scholarship, and in stark contrast to XHolySpirt-inspired drivel, where 'X is any given Joe or Jill Shmo (eg wallyHolySpirit, nathanHolySpirit) who has decided they are guided by "the Holy Spirit" but show no special advantage over any other human being. (See also Dean Breuer, Barry Barkley, Ray Hoffman, etc) What Chuck has to say is in harmony with what I have experienced in modern Jewish settings, for example, High Holy Day Services, with an unexpectedly vibrant local Jewish community (I was indoctrinated from an early age with an anti-semetic Christian message that Judaism is dead). I have listened with interest, to Rabbis who have asserted that it is a commandment to "fight with God." The endless discussion, endless debate. That is the stuff of life. I can live with that. Thanks, chuck, for sharing your point of view as a Christian. For me it has been both intriguing and healing. But I'm not a Christian, not in the sense of Christians today anyway. As I don't believe as they do. I'm a follower of Christ. And I didn't know that chuck saw himself as a Christian either, because chuck doesn't even say that he believes in God and those who are Christian do. I've never seen Chuck say he is Christian. And It's an easy question to answer, an atheist would just say no, a believer would say yes, and an agnostic would say they didn't know. So I just wondering what Chuck is? It clearly says in the Bible that if we come to God then we must believe that he is, and if we have faith in him then we will. So those who believe in God will say they do. God isn't just a set of characteristics, God is. He exists as a Spirit not just as a character. He is the living God and I have quoted verses from the old testament not just the new. It's clear right through the Bible that the Jews in the old testament and those who follow Christ say they believe in God and they don't just see him as a character, or as a set of characteristics. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:28:38 GMT -5
But I believe that everything that is created has to have a creator to me that is God. So how is that unorthodox?
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 17:30:18 GMT -5
Good point Maryh. If I understand correctly you do not believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead. That is one belief that I think puts many/most Christian’s in the “pretty much as unreasonable as Nathan” camp. If people can rise from the dead, pretty much anything is possible. I believe Jesus rose from the dead yes, but I don't see it as others do. When you think about it, if all those who rose with Jesus from the graves got up and walked around the city appearing to many like it says they did in the Bible, then people would be crazy not to believe in Jesus but they still didn't believe in him even after the resurrection. So why would that be? Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Although I do believe all things are possible with God, but I do see the resurrection differently.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 20:19:02 GMT -5
I did, but I reall didn't know what I was doing, I inherited it and was indoctrinated by by people who didn't know what they were talking about. As for Paul, if your preconceived ideas about what he said are a product of future religion I can see why you think that is what it say's. Here's a challenge for you, can you find in say the first 1000yrs of Christianity literature where "Jesus paid for my sins" or payment for sin was central to its teaching. Dont use the bible as evidence as that is circular. At last, some sense! Good post!
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 20:21:39 GMT -5
Didn't Paul teach to celebrate/commemorate the Eucharists/Bread and Wine till Jesus comes again! Didn’t you celebrate/partake the Bread and wine on every Sunday for 40 years plus. No we don't celebrate Jesus being murdered that's disgusting!
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 20:22:20 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 11: 23: For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s DEATH till he come. Firstly there's nothing there about celebrating the death of Jesus. I've heard people say remembering him, but saying we should celebrate his death is just awful. He was brutally beaten and murdered, it makes me cry to think about what he went through, not celebrate it. I'm sure the pharasees celebrated through because they got rid of him. Also, how do you show the Lord's death till he comes? What do you see this to mean? Thank you
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Post by maryhig on Feb 1, 2024 1:14:56 GMT -5
Some relevant posts from elsewhere, collected here. (assuming maryhig's views are representative) Hi admin, have I done something wrong?
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