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Post by notthithing on Aug 7, 2007 11:39:36 GMT -5
"I want to suggest that you finish what you started to do a year ago, for you were not only the first to propose this idea, but the first to begin doing something about it. Having started the ball rolling so enthusiastically, you should carry this project through to completion just as gladly, GIVING WHATEVER YOU CAN OUT OF WHATEVER YOU HAVE. Let your enthusiastic idea at the start be equaled by your realistic action now. If you are really EAGER TO GIVE, then it isn't important HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO GIVE. God wants you to give WHAT YOU HAVE, NOT WHAT YOU HAVEN'T" (II Cor. 8:10-12, The Living Bible).
Oh, let met give you one more prosperity example while I’m at it. Some time ago I critiqued two sermons by Dr. Kennedy and Dr. Hagee. As I sent for one of Hagee’s cassette tapes so as to quote him correctly, I got put on his mailing list. In August of 1999 I got a magazine in which he announced a proposed celebration. It appears that he needed seven or eight million dollars in new video equipment and facilities of which he still owed 3.5 million on this debt. Anyway, to commemorate this huge debt and a proposal to get someone else to pay it off for him, he announced "Millennium Miracle 2000 by 2000"! "What in the world is that?" you ask. Well, since you asked, I’ll tell you.
To commemorate this huge debt and Mr. Hagee’s plan to get other people to pay it off for him, he came up with a plan to mint a one ounce sterling silver coin which would then have printed on one side: "Millennium Miracle 2000 by 2000," and on the other side: Your Name!
The plan was for 2000 people to send John Hagee $2000 dollars each for the next few months so that by the year 2000 Mr. Hagee would be DEBT FREE! Why it’s a "Millennium Miracle"! (Wait a minute, isn’t 2000 people times $2000 each $4,000,000, not $3.5 million dollars? Oh well, a $500,000 error in John’s favor should come in handy for something).
Each contributor of $2000 would then get a coin commemorating his contribution: "What a precious heirloom that can be passed from one generation to the next honoring your commitment to the Lord" (Emphasis mine). WHAT A PRECIOUS CROCK...! Do you think the word "hypocrite" would be appropriate one more time?
How stupid do they think the American people are? These are full-grown men. Some of them highly educated people. And yet they shamelessly hawk and huckster their ridiculous religious doctrines, trinkets, and wares over the air waves, like PEDDLERS, in the name of God!
Now don’t think I take credit for coming up with that word "peddler." The apostle Paul told the Corinthians (and now it’s in our Bibles for the whole world to see) that:
"For we are not as the MAJORITY, who are PEDDLING THE WORD GOD..." (II Cor. 2:17, Concordant Version).
The word translated here "peddling" in the Concordant New Testament comes from the word "kapeleuo" which the spirit of God inspired to be used in the original Greek text of this verse of Scripture.
Here is the meaning of the Greek word "kapeleuo" translated "peddler." "To sell at retail, with the insinuation of improper profit, either by overcharging or adulterating" (Greek-English Keyword Concordance, page 220).
And notice please that it is not just a few who "peddle" the Word of God, but Paul says, "...the MAJORITY..." are peddling the word of God! Contrast this insincere merchandising of the word of God with Paul’s motive:
"For we ARE NOT as the majority, who are peddling the word of God, but as OF SINCERITY, but as OF GOD, in the sight of God IN CHRIST, are we speaking."
Just a few chapters later Paul informs us that one day we all will stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account of our lives, (II Cor. 5:10).
This next section in Chronicles tells us the same things we have already learned concerning what products were to be tithed.
[9] II Chronicles 31:5, 6, 12, "And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in ABUNDANCE the firstfruits of CORN, WINE, and OIL, and HONEY, and of all the INCREASE of the field; and the TITHE of all things brought they in abundantly.
And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the TITHE of OXEN and SHEEP, and the TITHE of holy things which were consecrated unto the Lord their God, and laid them by heaps.
And brought in the offerings and the TITHES ..."
This next section of Scriptures deals with a special tithe and offering given to NEW priests and Levites set up by Hezekiah after cleaning house in the cities of Judah by destroying the idols and altars to pagan gods.
[10] Nehemiah 10:37-38, "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God and the TITHES of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the TITHES in all the cities of our tillage.
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be the Levites, when the Levites take TITHES: and the Levites shall bring up the TITHE of the TITHES unto the house of our God, to the chambers into the treasure house."
Again, no mention of money, only agricultural products of the fields, and only the Levites and priests could have access to these tithes and offerings in the house of God.
[11] Nehemiah 12:44, "And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the fruitfruits, and for the TITHES, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priests and Levites: for Judah rejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited."
Nothing new in this verse that, we have not already discussed.
[12] Nehemiah 13:5, 12 "And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the TITHES of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests."
"Then brought all Judah the TITHE of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries."
Same story: ONLY agricultural products, and ONLY to the Levites and priests.
[13] Amos 4:4, "Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your TITHES after three years."
[14] Malachi 3:8-10, "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings…"
This Malachi Prophecy is covered in much greater detail in Part II of this paper, and so I will give just one more Scripture to help us understand how the priests of Malachi’s prophecy may have been living so as to bring upon them the condemnation of God’s judgments:
"And the priest’s custom with the people was, that, when any man offered sacrifice, the PRIEST’S servant came, while the flesh was in seething, with a flesh hook of three teeth in the hand;
And he struck it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the flesh hook brought up the priest took for himself. So they did in Shiloh unto all the Israelites that came thither.
Also before they burnt the fat, the priest’s servant came, and said to the man that sacrificed, Give flesh to roast for the PRIEST; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw.
And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desires; then he would answer him, Nay, but thou shall give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force.
Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before the Lord: for MEN ABHORRED the offering of the Lord." (I Sam. 2:13:17).
Don’t these verses sound as if they came right out of the book of Malachi?
[15] Matt. 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are discussed in greater detail in Part II of this paper.
CONCLUSION
Now I’m going to preach at you for just a few minutes, and then I’ll let you go. Turn to Gal. 6:14-16:
"Now may it not be mine to be boasting, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a NEW CREATION. And whoever shall observe the elements by this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, also on the Israel of God."
What is "...this rule...?" We are no longer doing things according to the flesh. Circumcision was the single most important ritual for a man in Israel to do. Yet circumcision is physical (of the letter and of the flesh), even water baptism is physical (of the letter and of the flesh), sacrificing animals is physical (of the letter and of the flesh), tithing is physical (of the letter and of the flesh), etc., etc., etc.
"...God, Who also makes us competent dispensers of a NEW covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying [giving life]" (II Cor. 3:6).
The physical is but a tiny microcosm of the spiritual macrocosm. Cutting a few centimeters of skin from a boy’s penis does not make him a spiritual man! But all of these rituals and ceremonies of the Old Covenant pointed to a future SPIRITUAL reality. True circumcision is not of the flesh, but of the heart, mind, soul, and spirit—it virtually has nothing to do with a few centimeters of physical skin.
"For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision; but that which is hidden IS the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God" (Rom. 2:29).
Jesus Christ is not interested in the letter, in the physical, in the flesh.
"Now those who are in the flesh are not able to please God" (Rom. 8:8).
Even baptism is of the heart. The thief on the cross was not baptized in water, yet Jesus said he would be with Him when He comes in His kingdom. "...whoever are baptized into Christ Jesus, are baptized into His DEATH" "His death," not water.
"We, then, were entombed together with Him through baptism into death, that, even as Christ was roused from among the dead through the glory of the Father, thus we also should be walking in newness of life" (Rom. 6:3-4).
It’s all about the SPIRIT--not water, foreskins, and money!
God doesn’t need or want ten percent of anything we have. God wants one hundred percent. Christ died for ALL OF YOU, and He wants ALL OF YOU, not just a percentage! God doesn’t want your money; He wants YOU!
You are already bought and paid for in full by Christ Jesus -- don’t try to add your two cents. We are now to live on a standard far above what we ever knew before Christ called us to become new creatures in the spirit. This can only be done through the power of God’s spirit. Our flesh is profiting NOTHING.
"Yet you are not in flesh, but IN SPIRIT, if so be that God’s spirit is making its home in you" (Rom. 8:9).
One living in the spirit is not all concerned about physical things of the letter and of the flesh. The apostle Paul wasn’t called to "baptize," "circumcise," or "collect tithes." The kingdom of God is not food and drink. Paul’s whole ministry was proof of that--see my paper, "Paul’s Splinter in the Flesh."
If people feel they need to give something to God, something physical, something they can see and feel good about, then try this:
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove that is that good and acceptable and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:1-2).
The Apostle Paul said:
"Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of NECESSITY: for GOD LOVETH A CHEERFUL GIVER." (II Cor.. 9:7).
I would not give another penny to televangelists who peddle the word of God like some cheap merchandise for money. And the amount of money they extort from the public is colossal. What in the world do they do with all that money?
Never have SO MANY… accomplished SO LITTLE … with SO MUCH!
The real missionaries of the Gospel of Jesus Christ have not flown first class to cushy hotels in exotic lands to teach the natives while dressed in their $3000 suits! The real missionaries were often down in the trenches with few if any luxuries. And there are still to be found such dedicated dispensers of God’s Word. These are the ones that are in need of financial support, for sure. These are those who truly are "worthy of their hire."
HELP THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY
Give to the fatherless, the orphans, the strangers, the widows, the poor, and the needy, the homeless, and the beggar on the street, as God gives to you, the wherewithal. Give to reputable charities if you have extra. Give to your family members and relatives in need—don’t humiliate them by making them ask you first. Give to a neighbor in financial distress. Even when tipping someone, let it be a reflection of the One that you are representing in your Christian walk. Our God is a generous God—may you become generous also. Develop a "love for giving." Paul tells us in Acts 20:35b to:
Remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, IT IS MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE
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Part II
Scriptural Proof that Christian Tithing is a Hoax
and
The Malachi Prophecy
I marvel that more people are not totally embarrassed by the way the world of Christendom exacts money from the poor and peddles the Word of God like so much merchandise for sordid gain. It is an international disgrace. I will not mince words, so get ready for some startling revelations.
WHAT WE WILL LEARN
What is the real message of Malachi’s prophecy for believers today?
Did Paul finance his international ministry through the tithing system?
Is there even one example of Christians paying tithes in the Bible?
Why did Jesus not pay tithes or the Temple tax commanded by the Law of Moses?
Will you or anyone be "cursed with a curse" for not tithing?
THE SCRIPTURES KNOW NOTHING OF "CHRISTIAN TITHING"
Jesus Christ’s followers did not pay tithe to Him from farm products or herds; neither did His followers pay Him ten percent of their salaries from other sources of income. "Christian tithing" is an oxymoron—it is a contradiction of words. Nay, it is more: it is, in fact, a Christian hoax! "Christian tithing" is about as Scriptural as "Christian burnt offerings," "Christian stonings," or "Christian synagogues." The leaders of Christendom have bamboozled millions (billions) of unsuspecting laity into believing that "Christian tithing" is a Scriptural command from God Himself, and can easily be found and supported in the pages of Divine Scripture. Oh really?
Of the 613 laws contained in the first five books of the Bible written by Moses, why is it that aside from the ten commandments, "tithing" is virtually the only other law that the modern Church tries to retain? They retain it in name only, however, since there is nothing similar between Moses’ law of tithing" and "Christian tithing" except the aspect of ten percent. Christian tithing is an extra-biblical concept and doctrine—aside from the ten percent it has nothing in common with the tithing law of Moses, and was never practiced by the New Testament Church.
Not only is Christian tithing taught to be needful, it is taught as if it were a divine, binding LAW. But there is no such thing as a "Christian tithing law" in the New Testament Scriptures. It is a heresy, used by the Church, independent cults, and charlatans of every description, as a club to beat and threaten parishioners into surrendering ten percent of their salaries in obedience to this phantom law. All are forewarned that failure to pay this 10% Church tax will cause them to be "cursed with a CURSE!" There is indeed "a curse," but it is not God Who pronounces it.
NO TITHING IN THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES
We have Scriptural proof that no such law or custom as Christian tithing was taught or practiced in the Church by the early apostles. Their epistles are totally devoid of any such tithing custom or law. Gentile converts were never taught to tithe to anyone. Although the temple and priesthood in Jerusalem remained until 70 AD, not even Jewish converts were taught to give their tithes to the Apostles rather than to the temple priests.
In the Acts 15 Jerusalem Conference we find outlined what the apostles all agreed was necessary for the newly converted Gentiles to practice, and by inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God, tithing is conspicuously missing. Some believing Pharisees wanted the apostles to teach the Gentiles to keep the Law of Moses (which certainly contained the law of tithing, Acts 15:5), but the apostles headed by Peter, James, and Paul would not hear of it (Acts 15:28-29)! Yet, what is one of the very first legislated duties taught to Gentile converts by the Church today? It is that they must tithe their annual salaries to the Church. Where did this unscriptural law of Christian tithing come from?
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Post by Will on Aug 7, 2007 14:51:33 GMT -5
Give 2 Cor 8 a read. Perhaps try a version other than King James so it readeth more understandable. Now, Paul hasn't set a % to tithe, but he is clearly putting the screws to these folks to give to help out others that are needy.
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truth4me
Junior Member
Eph. 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God."
Posts: 56
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Post by truth4me on Aug 7, 2007 18:03:37 GMT -5
It's not about tithing or not tithing - it's about giving...GIVING...giving back to God what is already His. The money we make is not our money - it is God's money - we are only stewards of it. The principle is in the Giving, not the distribution of monies to ministry or otherwise. To give to a church, mission, ministry, organization, or charity requires faith. But more than faith, the receiver must be accountable for that donation, to wisely use the funds for the continuation of the Lord's work. You just don't give and turn your eyes away - you must follow through with those accountable to the Lord's property! Again, we are stewards of the earth and everything in the earth, so we must be taught to give back.
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Post by déjà vu on Aug 7, 2007 19:02:48 GMT -5
truth 4 me wrote.
"It's not about tithing or not tithing - it's about giving...GIVING...giving back to God what is already His. The money we make is not our money - it is God's money - we are only stewards of it. The principle is in the Giving, not the distribution of monies to ministry or otherwise. To give to a church, mission, ministry, organization, or charity requires faith. But more than faith, the receiver must be accountable for that donation, to wisely use the funds for the continuation of the Lord's work. You just don't give and turn your eyes away - you must follow through with those accountable to the Lord's property! Again, we are stewards of the earth and everything in the earth, so we must be taught to give back."
Tanks for your excellent post , I am in complete agreement with you
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