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Post by jonathan on Sept 12, 2023 23:29:27 GMT -5
My name is Todd Price, I am a member of this fellowship and am a retired FBI Special Agent. For a significant part of my career, I investigated crimes against children, human trafficking, kidnapping, and other violent crimes. I am haunted to this day by memories and images of numerous terrible crime scenes, which are etched into my mind. It is my deepest hope that all victims would be believed and that some child sex offenders could truly find repentance. I write this, not because I think I have all the answers and I understand that there is more that can be added to the picture, but hope my experience and perspective will be helpful to the conversation about healing some horrible harm done to so many.
What does repentance look like in the life of a sexual offender? In the Gospel of Matthew, John the Baptist admonished the multitude, “Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance”(Mt 3:8) or in another translation, “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance”. Repentance is an inward act with clear outward signals. If an offender has truly repented inwardly, then they have felt the depth and severity of the wounds they have inflicted, which produces the following outward actions: Offenders would realize that they must not be in any gathering with children, instead, the Offender would completely remove themself from meetings and would avoid, to the utmost degree, environments where children are present, even if encouraged or invited to return to meetings, the Offender would insist that they must not be present with children.
Offenders would understand the great harm they have done, and would, fully acknowledge the harm, both to the primary victim(as appropriate with assistance from a therapist or victim advocate, NOT reaching out to victims on their own), and to all others they have groomed, and/or those to whom they have lied to conceal the abuse.
Offenders would fully understand, and acknowledge the divisive effect of their presence in meetings, and would never seek to cause division in the fellowship. Offenders would confess and present themselves to law enforcement officials for any, and all punishment that would be required under state and federal law.
Offenders would cooperate fully with all investigations and would fully disclose all victims to appropriate, responsible individuals trained to safeguard such sensitive information.
Offenders would completely understand that pedophilia is not curable and their condition will require them to seek lifelong therapy. Offender will invite accountability regarding their criminal actions and sexual desires for the rest of their life.
I have never heard of any offender from within this fellowship community or outside, that has shown these qualities of complete repentance. I believe it could only be possible with God’s help, and would truly be a miracle.
Please understand also that tears and words do not, by themselves, show repentance. In Hebrews, Paul mentioned Esau, who was "rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears”. It is also important to understand a few things that do not constitute repentance and some that would clearly show that the place of repentance has not yet been found : Tears "I’m sorry" "I’ll change" or "I’ll never do it again” Any sort of minimization, deflection, or absolutely ANY type of victim blaming. Attempting to maintain place or position as worker, elder, etc., with promises of changes to behavior or actions. Pressuring the Ministry or friends to be allowed back in meetings.
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 13, 2023 0:03:04 GMT -5
The agent is right. These are certainly the perspectives that come from experience in prosecuting offenders of this type.
I have seen a perpetrator try to get caught so he "could be saved from himself" and in doing so not be a danger to young children. However, even though he was a lay pastor in the Baptist church, we never saw signs of actual repentance as listed above.
A failure to convince the parole board that he is no longer a danger to society is also symptomatic of no true repentance.
Some perpetrators I know of, used to have the testimonies at convention, full of tears and much quivering. I used to wonder what was behind it all, and if they were hiding something. They were.
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Post by kenco69 on Sept 13, 2023 8:25:23 GMT -5
My name is Todd Price, I am a member of this fellowship and am a retired FBI Special Agent. For a significant part of my career, I investigated crimes against children, human trafficking, kidnapping, and other violent crimes. I am haunted to this day by memories and images of numerous terrible crime scenes, which are etched into my mind. It is my deepest hope that all victims would be believed and that some child sex offenders could truly find repentance. I write this, not because I think I have all the answers and I understand that there is more that can be added to the picture, but hope my experience and perspective will be helpful to the conversation about healing some horrible harm done to so many. What does repentance look like in the life of a sexual offender? In the Gospel of Matthew, John the Baptist admonished the multitude, “Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance”(Mt 3:8) or in another translation, “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance”. Repentance is an inward act with clear outward signals. If an offender has truly repented inwardly, then they have felt the depth and severity of the wounds they have inflicted, which produces the following outward actions: Offenders would realize that they must not be in any gathering with children, instead, the Offender would completely remove themself from meetings and would avoid, to the utmost degree, environments where children are present, even if encouraged or invited to return to meetings, the Offender would insist that they must not be present with children. Offenders would understand the great harm they have done, and would, fully acknowledge the harm, both to the primary victim(as appropriate with assistance from a therapist or victim advocate, NOT reaching out to victims on their own), and to all others they have groomed, and/or those to whom they have lied to conceal the abuse. Offenders would fully understand, and acknowledge the divisive effect of their presence in meetings, and would never seek to cause division in the fellowship. Offenders would confess and present themselves to law enforcement officials for any, and all punishment that would be required under state and federal law. Offenders would cooperate fully with all investigations and would fully disclose all victims to appropriate, responsible individuals trained to safeguard such sensitive information. Offenders would completely understand that pedophilia is not curable and their condition will require them to seek lifelong therapy. Offender will invite accountability regarding their criminal actions and sexual desires for the rest of their life. I have never heard of any offender from within this fellowship community or outside, that has shown these qualities of complete repentance. I believe it could only be possible with God’s help, and would truly be a miracle. Please understand also that tears and words do not, by themselves, show repentance. In Hebrews, Paul mentioned Esau, who was "rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears”. It is also important to understand a few things that do not constitute repentance and some that would clearly show that the place of repentance has not yet been found : Tears "I’m sorry" "I’ll change" or "I’ll never do it again” Any sort of minimization, deflection, or absolutely ANY type of victim blaming. Attempting to maintain place or position as worker, elder, etc., with promises of changes to behavior or actions. Pressuring the Ministry or friends to be allowed back in meetings. I 100% agree and those that offer them forgiveness and free reign to attend meetings etc are just leading them in to temptation How do I post this on the Ireland 🇮🇪 Page as It Needs To Be Posted There
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Post by jonathan on Sept 13, 2023 10:26:00 GMT -5
You could place a link there to this page, or you could simply copy it
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Post by snow on Sept 13, 2023 12:45:30 GMT -5
Totally agree. If they are truly repentant they aren't asking to be allowed back into meetings where they can be around children and/or previous survivors of their abuse. They would understand how traumatizing that would be for survivors and how much of a temptation it would be for them to be around children. They should be signing up for chemical castration if they are truly serious about their not wanting to offend again. You don't see that though. It's a farce and a con job and because it appears so many of the overseers have something to hide they just have to go along with it or be revealed to the friends about what they have done to enable these abusers in the past.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Sept 13, 2023 14:08:59 GMT -5
My name is Todd Price, I am a member of this fellowship and am a retired FBI Special Agent. For a significant part of my career, I investigated crimes against children, human trafficking, kidnapping, and other violent crimes. I am haunted to this day by memories and images of numerous terrible crime scenes, which are etched into my mind. It is my deepest hope that all victims would be believed and that some child sex offenders could truly find repentance. I write this, not because I think I have all the answers and I understand that there is more that can be added to the picture, but hope my experience and perspective will be helpful to the conversation about healing some horrible harm done to so many. What does repentance look like in the life of a sexual offender? In the Gospel of Matthew, John the Baptist admonished the multitude, “Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance”(Mt 3:8) or in another translation, “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance”. Repentance is an inward act with clear outward signals. If an offender has truly repented inwardly, then they have felt the depth and severity of the wounds they have inflicted, which produces the following outward actions: Offenders would realize that they must not be in any gathering with children, instead, the Offender would completely remove themself from meetings and would avoid, to the utmost degree, environments where children are present, even if encouraged or invited to return to meetings, the Offender would insist that they must not be present with children. Offenders would understand the great harm they have done, and would, fully acknowledge the harm, both to the primary victim(as appropriate with assistance from a therapist or victim advocate, NOT reaching out to victims on their own), and to all others they have groomed, and/or those to whom they have lied to conceal the abuse. Offenders would fully understand, and acknowledge the divisive effect of their presence in meetings, and would never seek to cause division in the fellowship. Offenders would confess and present themselves to law enforcement officials for any, and all punishment that would be required under state and federal law. Offenders would cooperate fully with all investigations and would fully disclose all victims to appropriate, responsible individuals trained to safeguard such sensitive information. Offenders would completely understand that pedophilia is not curable and their condition will require them to seek lifelong therapy. Offender will invite accountability regarding their criminal actions and sexual desires for the rest of their life. I have never heard of any offender from within this fellowship community or outside, that has shown these qualities of complete repentance. I believe it could only be possible with God’s help, and would truly be a miracle. Please understand also that tears and words do not, by themselves, show repentance. In Hebrews, Paul mentioned Esau, who was "rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears”. It is also important to understand a few things that do not constitute repentance and some that would clearly show that the place of repentance has not yet been found : Tears "I’m sorry" "I’ll change" or "I’ll never do it again” Any sort of minimization, deflection, or absolutely ANY type of victim blaming. Attempting to maintain place or position as worker, elder, etc., with promises of changes to behavior or actions. Pressuring the Ministry or friends to be allowed back in meetings. Matches what a sister worker said in 1991; It's so easy to ignore the times things do get done right. Those instances never happened - if we go by what we read on TMB. But right thing has happened many times, here's an example of a time things were done right 22 years ago. It's the dirty laundry that sells isn't it, that's why you read way more about it than clean laundry. People have always loved to air another's dirty laundry - those tales are as old as time.
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 14, 2023 18:36:10 GMT -5
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Quote from above "As for our moral obligation, I personally feel that it parallels the duty of a citizen who knows about a murder. We do wrong if we keep quiet. We aid the criminal if we keep quiet."
I am aware of one case here in NZ, where the CSA perpetrator was allowed to get away with it for years, and that is because the wife was considered to be 'such a lovely lady'. Maybe she knew what her husband was doing, or maybe she didn't, but one of the victims I spoke to recently felt that she did. But she was kind, and always first to help with baking or such like. This was some decades ago, but I am aware of at least two victims, and is par for the course, it doesn't stop with just one. Victims staying quiet aids the criminal too. And how many wives have remained quiet for reasons of their own, that have also aided the criminal?
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Post by jonathan on Sept 15, 2023 0:53:27 GMT -5
One reason could be they fear disclosure will bring shame.
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Post by jonathan on Sept 15, 2023 0:54:47 GMT -5
Know of one case where the daughter, not a victim herself, was in total denial even when there was dna proof. 🤷
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 15, 2023 3:10:22 GMT -5
One reason could be they fear disclosure will bring shame. Yes, and not "rocking the boat". Trying to preserve the reputation of the church at all costs.
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 15, 2023 3:11:04 GMT -5
Know of one case where the daughter, not a victim herself, was in total denial even when there was dna proof. 🤷 You gotta wonder!
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Post by jonathan on Sept 15, 2023 3:38:15 GMT -5
One reason could be they fear disclosure will bring shame. Yes, and not "rocking the boat". Trying to preserve the reputation of the church at all costs. Possibly even the reputation of the family? There could be so many reasons.
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Post by snow on Sept 15, 2023 12:28:27 GMT -5
Yes, and not "rocking the boat". Trying to preserve the reputation of the church at all costs. Possibly even the reputation of the family? There could be so many reasons. Also if the man is the only one bringing in money, concerns about being left with nothing and having no job skills. It's entrapment in many ways. There could even be domestic abuse and she's so beaten down and intimidated that she can't speak up because she too is a different kind of 'survivor/victim'.
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