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Post by chuck on Aug 24, 2023 20:24:48 GMT -5
Does it not concern you that the people who claim to be servants of God who have influenced your life need CSA training to know how to act appropriately towards others........ Leviticus already had the answers they've just never understood it because they are too caught up in their own religious rightness.....and now they need training to act appropriately towards others apparently.......this is what happens when you have been removed from reality for too long.....the training is window dressing but it's convinced you....... "Getting to Heaven" isn't a thing in scripture. Its a tool people use to control others........ oh? where in Leviticus does it talk about pedophilia and what to do? Scripture mentions those of those types of people and gave us fair warning, why are you surprised? If you can't get to heaven through Christ, enjoy the heat. Don't worry it's a dry heat... It mentions on more than 1 occasion about aroma's pleasing to the L O R D. Now if you understand the concepts around offerings and what L O R D means you would know that stuffing CSA under the rug is the exact opposite of this. But apparently your God like advisers need to be trained how not to stuff it under the rug.......Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character. If only they knew what it was that book they have been wielding like a weapon actually said..... Wally just like all those gushing commentators on the funeral page about Dean and how he most surely was led by the holy spirit is that the measuring stick you use to reach that conclusion is useless. It is founded on religious stuff that is based on self fulfilling prophecy. So your ability on picking "those types of people" as you put it is based on something that doesn't matter a fig and ignores everything that does which leads you to think someone is until you find out they are not which in itself is stupid be you are making assumptions based on religious performance alone. Being led by the holy spirit has nothing to do with religion as we know it today. The holy spirit is a indwelling influence absent bondage. I would suggest its about exactly opposite of what you think it actually is because to be led by your holy spirit means I need to be like you and the people who taught you...... "Get to heaven" referring to a location is not mentioned in scripture period. Your making stuff up or repeating stuff you don't understand.
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Post by chuck on Aug 24, 2023 20:47:31 GMT -5
We definitely get the wrong idea of what love looks like when they preach the doom and gloom and then tell us God is Love. Make sure you don't love yourself because that would be vain and ungodly. What a load of mixed messages they preached. No wonder we're seeing so many stories now of how messed up people have been and are slowly understanding it now that they have left.
The bible (OT) is mostly gloom and doom.. If not for Christ, I'd have a hard time reconciling "God is love".. Its a good thing Jesus came and showed us love. Its really not 'mixed messages', there's just 2 sides to the coin and its important to absorb them both. The Lord saving us demonstrated his divine love for us, while our rejecting him demonstrates the opposite. Unfortunately, not reciprocating that love has some serious repercussions (death), and the Workers would be in dereliction of duty not to point that out.
But admittedly, it is more soul soothing and inspirational to hear that the promise of salvation is guaranteed, instead of getting constant warnings about the Wrath of God falling upon those who don't abide by their rules. Too much of that leaves one feeling that they're never good enough no matter how hard they try. The realization that Believer's do not come under condemning judgement and that our Accuser was defeated at Calvary, is something that seems
to have evaded them, making his yoke hard and his burden heavy. They have the Truth, but tend to make their Way too difficult for anyone to adhere by. Life is tough enough without extra religious dogma weighing you down.
The Christ story in the Gospels is a commentary of the the first 5 books of the bible basically. This commen that the OT is doom and gloom is highly ignorant. What is "new" in the NT is the Devine Character otherwise known in the OT as "The L O R D" is it is kinder than they had ever imagined. The basic principles of the first 5 books remain the same but how they function are getting kinder every day....... Where it's going wrong is people have made these fictitious characters into real entity's which then makes the stories all about the literal entity's. This means people then don't look behind the stories to see what was actually going on and what widsom the stories may entail but rather focus on the magic of the newly created entitys with the imagination creating images of the most exaggerated things it can manage......... A paradigm shift is needed as religious people are killing the bible and the religion Christianity is leading the charge.......
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Post by Dan on Aug 25, 2023 0:45:34 GMT -5
The bible (OT) is mostly gloom and doom.. If not for Christ, I'd have a hard time reconciling "God is love".. Its a good thing Jesus came and showed us love. Its really not 'mixed messages', there's just 2 sides to the coin and its important to absorb them both. The Lord saving us demonstrated his divine love for us, while our rejecting him demonstrates the opposite. Unfortunately, not reciprocating that love has some serious repercussions (death), and the Workers would be in dereliction of duty not to point that out.
But admittedly, it is more soul soothing and inspirational to hear that the promise of salvation is guaranteed, instead of getting constant warnings about the Wrath of God falling upon those who don't abide by their rules. Too much of that leaves one feeling that they're never good enough no matter how hard they try. The realization that Believer's do not come under condemning judgement and that our Accuser was defeated at Calvary, is something that seems
to have evaded them, making his yoke hard and his burden heavy. They have the Truth, but tend to make their Way too difficult for anyone to adhere by. Life is tough enough without extra religious dogma weighing you down.
The Christ story in the Gospels is a commentary of the the first 5 books of the bible basically. This commen that the OT is doom and gloom is highly ignorant. What is "new" in the NT is the Devine Character otherwise known in the OT as "The L O R D" is it is kinder than they had ever imagined. The basic principles of the first 5 books remain the same but how they function are getting kinder every day....... Where it's going wrong is people have made these fictitious characters into real entity's which then makes the stories all about the literal entity's. This means people then don't look behind the stories to see what was actually going on and what widsom the stories may entail but rather focus on the magic of the newly created entitys with the imagination creating images of the most exaggerated things it can manage......... A paradigm shift is needed as religious people are killing the bible and the religion Christianity is leading the charge.......
The entire old testament points to Christ. The O.T. follows the Hebrew nation and it is a lot of gloom and doom. From the flood , Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanite wars, the Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian Empires conquering them, the Temple destroyed, King Saul, Sampson, and prophets killed, horrible Kings, etc. There's good too, but its predominately saturated by the disobedience of Israel, so much so that only one tribe was left by the time Christ arrived, and they were conquered by Rome.
Most of the basic principles (laws) were forerunners of Christ, most of the statutes and ordinances governing the Temple, Priesthood, Holy Days, sacrifices, etc, were fulfilled in Christ and rendered obsolete.
The characters were not fictitious, and neither are the stories. If they were, then all of Christianity is based on a lie. Salvation was secured by a literal entity, the Lord himself. It was prophesied and not imagined, and the bible isn't a batch of fake stories concocted to illustrate wisdom. The only thing killing the bible is people claiming that it doesn't mean what it says, people who "Became vain in their imaginations...Who changed the truth of God into a lie" (Romans 1: 21 & 25)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 1:14:26 GMT -5
oh? where in Leviticus does it talk about pedophilia and what to do? Scripture mentions those of those types of people and gave us fair warning, why are you surprised? If you can't get to heaven through Christ, enjoy the heat. Don't worry it's a dry heat... It mentions on more than 1 occasion about aroma's pleasing to the L O R D. Now if you understand the concepts around offerings and what L O R D means you would know that stuffing CSA under the rug is the exact opposite of this. But apparently your God like advisers need to be trained how not to stuff it under the rug.......Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character. If only they knew what it was that book they have been wielding like a weapon actually said..... Wally just like all those gushing commentators on the funeral page about Dean and how he most surely was led by the holy spirit is that the measuring stick you use to reach that conclusion is useless. It is founded on religious stuff that is based on self fulfilling prophecy. So your ability on picking "those types of people" as you put it is based on something that doesn't matter a fig and ignores everything that does which leads you to think someone is until you find out they are not which in itself is stupid be you are making assumptions based on religious performance alone. Being led by the holy spirit has nothing to do with religion as we know it today. The holy spirit is a indwelling influence absent bondage. I would suggest its about exactly opposite of what you think it actually is because to be led by your holy spirit means I need to be like you and the people who taught you...... "Get to heaven" referring to a location is not mentioned in scripture period. Your making stuff up or repeating stuff you don't understand. Every sin is the opposite of that. What's your point chuckite? "Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character." The chuckite I quote there. I'll let you look at this comment you made again, if you get it you'll know how stupid it is and on another level hilariously contradictory... Nub that you are, you understand little when it comes to scripture. There is a reason for that, lack of the HS. There are only two paths in this life, one leads to heaven the other to hell. Luke 16 read it, understand it, weep. Christians no longer wander the earth aimlessly like before, some choose to go back to that wandering, like yourself for instance...good luck you'll need it. Fact. Day late and a dollar short again chuckite...
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Post by snow on Aug 25, 2023 12:34:42 GMT -5
We definitely get the wrong idea of what love looks like when they preach the doom and gloom and then tell us God is Love. Make sure you don't love yourself because that would be vain and ungodly. What a load of mixed messages they preached. No wonder we're seeing so many stories now of how messed up people have been and are slowly understanding it now that they have left. The bible (OT) is mostly gloom and doom.. If not for Christ, I'd have a hard time reconciling "God is love".. Its a good thing Jesus came and showed us love. Its really not 'mixed messages', there's just 2 sides to the coin and its important to absorb them both. The Lord saving us demonstrated his divine love for us, while our rejecting him demonstrates the opposite. Unfortunately, not reciprocating that love has some serious repercussions (death), and the Workers would be in dereliction of duty not to point that out. But admittedly, it is more soul soothing and inspirational to hear that the promise of salvation is guaranteed, instead of getting constant warnings about the Wrath of God falling upon those who don't abide by their rules. Too much of that leaves one feeling that they're never good enough no matter how hard they try. The realization that Believer's do not come under condemning judgement and that our Accuser was defeated at Calvary, is something that seems
to have evaded them, making his yoke hard and his burden heavy. They have the Truth, but tend to make their Way too difficult for anyone to adhere by. Life is tough enough without extra religious dogma weighing you down.
I think it's really unfortunate that they do just focus so heavily on the vengeful side of things. I don't like religions as it is, but when one group's interpretation of their sacred book, that could be more encouraging, is focused mainly on how unworthy and worthless you are, that is just sad imo.
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Post by chuck on Aug 26, 2023 0:08:58 GMT -5
The Christ story in the Gospels is a commentary of the the first 5 books of the bible basically. This commen that the OT is doom and gloom is highly ignorant. What is "new" in the NT is the Devine Character otherwise known in the OT as "The L O R D" is it is kinder than they had ever imagined. The basic principles of the first 5 books remain the same but how they function are getting kinder every day....... Where it's going wrong is people have made these fictitious characters into real entity's which then makes the stories all about the literal entity's. This means people then don't look behind the stories to see what was actually going on and what widsom the stories may entail but rather focus on the magic of the newly created entitys with the imagination creating images of the most exaggerated things it can manage......... A paradigm shift is needed as religious people are killing the bible and the religion Christianity is leading the charge.......
The entire old testament points to Christ. The O.T. follows the Hebrew nation and it is a lot of gloom and doom. From the flood , Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanite wars, the Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian Empires conquering them, the Temple destroyed, King Saul, Sampson, and prophets killed, horrible Kings, etc. There's good too, but its predominately saturated by the disobedience of Israel, so much so that only one tribe was left by the time Christ arrived, and they were conquered by Rome.
Most of the basic principles (laws) were forerunners of Christ, most of the statutes and ordinances governing the Temple, Priesthood, Holy Days, sacrifices, etc, were fulfilled in Christ and rendered obsolete.
The characters were not fictitious, and neither are the stories. If they were, then all of Christianity is based on a lie. Salvation was secured by a literal entity, the Lord himself. It was prophesied and not imagined, and the bible isn't a batch of fake stories concocted to illustrate wisdom. The only thing killing the bible is people claiming that it doesn't mean what it says, people who "Became vain in their imaginations...Who changed the truth of God into a lie" (Romans 1: 21 & 25)
The flood isn't about doom and gloom, its a ancient story about if your mind is in the right place its resilient enough you can rise above things that would otherwise drown you, Noah was perfect in his generation, why was this so, well the story indicates his family wasn't disjointed therefore the ark that he had built around them could rise above even the worst things that would drown most families......... As soon as you literalise that story you begin to ruin it and turn it into a cliche that you need to get right with god or he'll kill ya.....its just so compelling! its really no wonder you see doom and gloom. ...your reading it all wrong....... Sure many may actually be based on real people but you are missing the point already if their realness is fundemental to your worldview...its actually become idolatry at this point.... The religion Christianity I have come to realise is a lie, dont confuse that with being a Christian though as they are entirely different things. You dont get to announce what you are, other people will know by the content of your character. Matthew 25 tells you this, the Christ in that story was the people who were righteous or generous. They were Christ. Christ is a character but I know you think Christ was one particular man, that is not correct, "Christ" is like the L O R D which is referrering to a Character not an individual. You need to understand "the Name of the L O R D" which will then help you understand Christ. Acts 4:12 [12]Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Name means character, the above verse is new commentary on exodus 34. Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. So Jesus Christ is a Man called Jesus known for displaying the Christ character. And you can Kill the man Jesus but that Character will just rise again..... the man Jesus on the other hand is still just as dead as anyone else that has died. The reason Jesus died was because people sacrificed the Christ...... Salvation is secured when you display the Christ character, it saves you from yourself....... The stories are truer than true, you just ruin them by literalising the form and by ignoring the function of them....... They are as literally true as rain coming through window's in the blue dome and the earth sitting on pillars......but I dont see anyone dying on their sword to defend the things they know not to be literally true but rather only things you cannot prove or see......kinda silly really when you think about it....
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Post by chuck on Aug 26, 2023 0:33:38 GMT -5
It mentions on more than 1 occasion about aroma's pleasing to the L O R D. Now if you understand the concepts around offerings and what L O R D means you would know that stuffing CSA under the rug is the exact opposite of this. But apparently your God like advisers need to be trained how not to stuff it under the rug.......Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character. If only they knew what it was that book they have been wielding like a weapon actually said..... Wally just like all those gushing commentators on the funeral page about Dean and how he most surely was led by the holy spirit is that the measuring stick you use to reach that conclusion is useless. It is founded on religious stuff that is based on self fulfilling prophecy. So your ability on picking "those types of people" as you put it is based on something that doesn't matter a fig and ignores everything that does which leads you to think someone is until you find out they are not which in itself is stupid be you are making assumptions based on religious performance alone. Being led by the holy spirit has nothing to do with religion as we know it today. The holy spirit is a indwelling influence absent bondage. I would suggest its about exactly opposite of what you think it actually is because to be led by your holy spirit means I need to be like you and the people who taught you...... "Get to heaven" referring to a location is not mentioned in scripture period. Your making stuff up or repeating stuff you don't understand. Every sin is the opposite of that. What's your point chuckite? "Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character." The chuckite I quote there. I'll let you look at this comment you made again, if you get it you'll know how stupid it is and on another level hilariously contradictory... Nub that you are, you understand little when it comes to scripture. There is a reason for that, lack of the HS. There are only two paths in this life, one leads to heaven the other to hell. Luke 16 read it, understand it, weep. Christians no longer wander the earth aimlessly like before, some choose to go back to that wandering, like yourself for instance...good luck you'll need it. Fact. Day late and a dollar short again chuckite... More religious threats.......the carpet stuffers have taught you well.....its just a pity you cannot prove it but only threaten the unknown just like Nathan used to do. Pathetic. Its a good tactic on the vulnerable.....young and old...
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 26, 2023 2:45:10 GMT -5
You do raise some interesting points, and food for thought Chuck. Certainly, the Pentateuch as it is known by the Christians, to my mind is the collection of explanations in the five books of Moses for the world to the Jewish people. I have never taken the story of Adam and Eve, or Noah as literal, but metaphorical. However, I do not say that they could not be literal either, as I consider the absence of evidence to not be the evidence of absence, but make more sense as figurative.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 13:32:09 GMT -5
Every sin is the opposite of that. What's your point chuckite? "Stuffing things under the rug stink like $#1t to the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness character." The chuckite I quote there. I'll let you look at this comment you made again, if you get it you'll know how stupid it is and on another level hilariously contradictory... Nub that you are, you understand little when it comes to scripture. There is a reason for that, lack of the HS. There are only two paths in this life, one leads to heaven the other to hell. Luke 16 read it, understand it, weep. Christians no longer wander the earth aimlessly like before, some choose to go back to that wandering, like yourself for instance...good luck you'll need it. Fact. Day late and a dollar short again chuckite... More religious threats.......the carpet stuffers have taught you well.....its just a pity you cannot prove it but only threaten the unknown just like Nathan used to do. Pathetic. Its a good tactic on the vulnerable.....young and old... Facts are facts...Luke 16.
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Post by fixit on Aug 26, 2023 15:22:59 GMT -5
More religious threats.......the carpet stuffers have taught you well.....its just a pity you cannot prove it but only threaten the unknown just like Nathan used to do. Pathetic. Its a good tactic on the vulnerable.....young and old... Facts are facts...Luke 16. The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate?
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Post by chuck on Aug 26, 2023 19:01:00 GMT -5
Facts are facts...Luke 16. The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate? Wally doesn't know just how true that parable is......the irony is he's scared of picture it literally paints but knows nothing of the wisdom within the painting......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 19:23:59 GMT -5
Facts are facts...Luke 16. The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate? It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 19:25:18 GMT -5
The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate? Wally doesn't know just how true that parable is......the irony is he's scared of picture it literally paints but knows nothing of the wisdom within the painting...... Eventually you get it, too late..
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Post by chuck on Aug 27, 2023 0:03:15 GMT -5
The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate? It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets... The hubris to make that comment is next level because I know the "more people" never includes yourself........it just includes people not like you.....
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Post by chuck on Aug 27, 2023 0:04:35 GMT -5
Wally doesn't know just how true that parable is......the irony is he's scared of picture it literally paints but knows nothing of the wisdom within the painting...... Eventually you get it, too late.. Renaissance Art has scared many a person to act and think in all sorts of nasty ways.......
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Post by fixit on Aug 27, 2023 2:52:38 GMT -5
The rich man and lazarus parable? The one where the rich man was indifferent to the suffering at his gate? Like those who feel so rich and satisfied in their religious system, while indifferent to the suffering of CSA victims at their gate? It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets... What is it if not a parable?
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Post by Dan on Aug 27, 2023 3:51:55 GMT -5
It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets... What is it if not a parable? Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htm
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Post by Dan on Aug 27, 2023 6:34:17 GMT -5
The flood isn't about doom and gloom, its a ancient story about if your mind is in the right place its resilient enough you can rise above things that would otherwise drown you, Noah was perfect in his generation, why was this so, well the story indicates his family wasn't disjointed therefore the ark that he had built around them could rise above even the worst things that would drown most families......... As soon as you literalise that story you begin to ruin it and turn it into a cliche that you need to get right with god or he'll kill ya.....its just so compelling! its really no wonder you see doom and gloom. ...your reading it all wrong....... Sure many may actually be based on real people but you are missing the point already if their realness is fundemental to your worldview...its actually become idolatry at this point.... The religion Christianity I have come to realise is a lie, dont confuse that with being a Christian though as they are entirely different things. You dont get to announce what you are, other people will know by the content of your character. Matthew 25 tells you this, the Christ in that story was the people who were righteous or generous. They were Christ. Christ is a character but I know you think Christ was one particular man, that is not correct, "Christ" is like the L O R D which is referrering to a Character not an individual. You need to understand "the Name of the L O R D" which will then help you understand Christ. Acts 4:12 [12]Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Name means character, the above verse is new commentary on exodus 34. Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. So Jesus Christ is a Man called Jesus known for displaying the Christ character. And you can Kill the man Jesus but that Character will just rise again..... the man Jesus on the other hand is still just as dead as anyone else that has died. The reason Jesus died was because people sacrificed the Christ...... Salvation is secured when you display the Christ character, it saves you from yourself....... The stories are truer than true, you just ruin them by literalising the form and by ignoring the function of them....... They are as literally true as rain coming through window's in the blue dome and the earth sitting on pillars......but I dont see anyone dying on their sword to defend the things they know not to be literally true but rather only things you cannot prove or see......kinda silly really when you think about it....
Well, I guess that's another way of looking at it, but it really reduces the bible to a book of subliminal messaging. Stories evolving around real people, but not accepted as having actually happened. In other words, exaggerated fairy tales.
If the stories and characters are merely representative of spiritual lessons, then they cannot be authentically viable towards anything real. The lessons can only be what we imagine them to be, Christ not being an actual Savior, but merely a representation of what salvation is. That's an obscure epiphany that defies everything Jesus taught, "No one cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)
I can't buy into that method of interpretation, which reverses the entire narrative from literal to figurative. Christ wasn't the characterization of salvation, but the literal manifestation of it.. Your claim that Jesus is just as dead as anyone else who has died does not make a story truer than true, but denies 'He has risen' and reduces it all to allegorical messaging or hyperbole.
The realization of Christ is not acknowledging a theoretical function, but the literal sacrifice God made for us. "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).
You've chosen to assign philosophical explanations to eliminate miracles, but that methodology removes hope. A dead Savior can save no one, denying the resurrection is a mentality of , "He saved others; himself he cannot save" (Matthew 27:42).
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Post by Annan on Aug 27, 2023 7:38:40 GMT -5
The entire old testament points to Christ. The O.T. follows the Hebrew nation and it is a lot of gloom and doom. From the flood , Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanite wars, the Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian Empires conquering them, the Temple destroyed, King Saul, Sampson, and prophets killed, horrible Kings, etc. There's good too, but its predominately saturated by the disobedience of Israel, so much so that only one tribe was left by the time Christ arrived, and they were conquered by Rome. Most of the basic principles (laws) were forerunners of Christ, most of the statutes and ordinances governing the Temple, Priesthood, Holy Days, sacrifices, etc, were fulfilled in Christ and rendered obsolete. The characters were not fictitious, and neither are the stories. If they were, then all of Christianity is based on a lie. Salvation was secured by a literal entity, the Lord himself. It was prophesied and not imagined, and the bible isn't a batch of fake stories concocted to illustrate wisdom. The only thing killing the bible is people claiming that it doesn't mean what it says, people who "Became vain in their imaginations...Who changed the truth of God into a lie" (Romans 1: 21 & 25)
The flood isn't about doom and gloom, its a ancient story about if your mind is in the right place its resilient enough you can rise above things that would otherwise drown you, Noah was perfect in his generation, why was this so, well the story indicates his family wasn't disjointed therefore the ark that he had built around them could rise above even the worst things that would drown most families......... As soon as you literalise that story you begin to ruin it and turn it into a cliche that you need to get right with god or he'll kill ya.....its just so compelling! its really no wonder you see doom and gloom. ...your reading it all wrong....... Sure many may actually be based on real people but you are missing the point already if their realness is fundemental to your worldview...its actually become idolatry at this point.... The religion Christianity I have come to realise is a lie, dont confuse that with being a Christian though as they are entirely different things. You dont get to announce what you are, other people will know by the content of your character. Matthew 25 tells you this, the Christ in that story was the people who were righteous or generous. They were Christ. Christ is a character but I know you think Christ was one particular man, that is not correct, "Christ" is like the L O R D which is referrering to a Character not an individual. You need to understand "the Name of the L O R D" which will then help you understand Christ. Acts 4:12 [12]Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Name means character, the above verse is new commentary on exodus 34. Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. So Jesus Christ is a Man called Jesus known for displaying the Christ character. And you can Kill the man Jesus but that Character will just rise again..... the man Jesus on the other hand is still just as dead as anyone else that has died. The reason Jesus died was because people sacrificed the Christ...... Salvation is secured when you display the Christ character, it saves you from yourself....... The stories are truer than true, you just ruin them by literalising the form and by ignoring the function of them....... They are as literally true as rain coming through window's in the blue dome and the earth sitting on pillars......but I dont see anyone dying on their sword to defend the things they know not to be literally true but rather only things you cannot prove or see......kinda silly really when you think about it.... Excellent post, Chuck.
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Post by chuck on Aug 27, 2023 8:47:53 GMT -5
What is it if not a parable? Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htm
Your ideas of hell come from Greek philosophy so of course you think its describing a place somewhere else..........Hebrews think function, Greeks think form so the greeks painted pictures about it!.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:06:45 GMT -5
It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets... The hubris to make that comment is next level because I know the "more people" never includes yourself........it just includes people not like you..... I can just as easily end up there as anyone, your ASSumptions are typical for an atheist...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:08:04 GMT -5
It's not a parable chuckite. There will be more people in hell then pedos or their puppets... What is it if not a parable? It's a factual event... There are several signs as to why its factual might want to start searching posts here and find out why, scientist...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:10:39 GMT -5
What is it if not a parable? Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htm
Don't worry though no matter how many times it gets explained, they won't get it...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:12:24 GMT -5
The flood isn't about doom and gloom, its a ancient story about if your mind is in the right place its resilient enough you can rise above things that would otherwise drown you, Noah was perfect in his generation, why was this so, well the story indicates his family wasn't disjointed therefore the ark that he had built around them could rise above even the worst things that would drown most families......... As soon as you literalise that story you begin to ruin it and turn it into a cliche that you need to get right with god or he'll kill ya.....its just so compelling! its really no wonder you see doom and gloom. ...your reading it all wrong....... Sure many may actually be based on real people but you are missing the point already if their realness is fundemental to your worldview...its actually become idolatry at this point.... The religion Christianity I have come to realise is a lie, dont confuse that with being a Christian though as they are entirely different things. You dont get to announce what you are, other people will know by the content of your character. Matthew 25 tells you this, the Christ in that story was the people who were righteous or generous. They were Christ. Christ is a character but I know you think Christ was one particular man, that is not correct, "Christ" is like the L O R D which is referrering to a Character not an individual. You need to understand "the Name of the L O R D" which will then help you understand Christ. Acts 4:12 [12]Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Name means character, the above verse is new commentary on exodus 34. Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. So Jesus Christ is a Man called Jesus known for displaying the Christ character. And you can Kill the man Jesus but that Character will just rise again..... the man Jesus on the other hand is still just as dead as anyone else that has died. The reason Jesus died was because people sacrificed the Christ...... Salvation is secured when you display the Christ character, it saves you from yourself....... The stories are truer than true, you just ruin them by literalising the form and by ignoring the function of them....... They are as literally true as rain coming through window's in the blue dome and the earth sitting on pillars......but I dont see anyone dying on their sword to defend the things they know not to be literally true but rather only things you cannot prove or see......kinda silly really when you think about it....
Well, I guess that's another way of looking at it, but it really reduces the bible to a book of subliminal messaging. Stories evolving around real people, but not accepted as having actually happened. In other words, exaggerated fairy tales.
If the stories and characters are merely representative of spiritual lessons, then they cannot be authentically viable towards anything real. The lessons can only be what we imagine them to be, Christ not being an actual Savior, but merely a representation of what salvation is. That's an obscure epiphany that defies everything Jesus taught, "No one cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)
I can't buy into that method of interpretation, which reverses the entire narrative from literal to figurative. Christ wasn't the characterization of salvation, but the literal manifestation of it.. Your claim that Jesus is just as dead as anyone else who has died does not make a story truer than true, but denies 'He has risen' and reduces it all to allegorical messaging or hyperbole.
The realization of Christ is not acknowledging a theoretical function, but the literal sacrifice God made for us. "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).
You've chosen to assign philosophical explanations to eliminate miracles, but that methodology removes hope. A dead Savior can save no one, denying the resurrection is a mentality of , "He saved others; himself he cannot save" (Matthew 27:42).
Very well said brother...you have the gift of words...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:15:09 GMT -5
Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htm
Your ideas of hell come from Greek philosophy so of course you think its describing a place somewhere else..........Hebrews think function, Greeks think form so the greeks painted pictures about it!. The Greeks did not interpret the NT or the OT, they translated it...chuckite...major difference...
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Post by fixit on Aug 27, 2023 14:43:03 GMT -5
What is it if not a parable? Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htmHere's a story... Are Paddy and the man real people?
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Post by Dan on Aug 27, 2023 14:57:06 GMT -5
Luke 16 contains two stories: the parable of the dishonest manager and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The first story is a parable, but the second story is not. The second story is different from a parable because it uses a proper name (Lazarus) and describes the afterlife in detail. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a literal truth that has a serious message for the readers.. middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/parable.htm
Your ideas of hell come from Greek philosophy so of course you think its describing a place somewhere else..........Hebrews think function, Greeks think form so the greeks painted pictures about it!.
Not my ideas, and not a philosophy. Its what's clearly written, and it was written by Hebrews, not Greeks. Hell is a state of being after death, its a spiritual form of existence as well as a place. Hades is described as the other side of Paradise, separated by a 'great gulf' (Luke 16:26).. That's a description, not a painted picture. If your assumptions are that nothing means what it says, then you'll interpret what's written incorrectly. Hell is not an antonym for something else or an imaginary place.
The problem with implementing function over form requires that you replace reality with myth and are left with a confusing mess. Take a simple verse like, "A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight" (John 9:11). Does that verse literally describe an actual place and event to you, or did the Greeks misconstrue some unknown Hebrew function? What alternative meaning would you assign to what that verse is actually relaying? It was a miracle after-all, so I'm presuming you can't accept it at face value.
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Post by chuck on Aug 27, 2023 15:51:38 GMT -5
The hubris to make that comment is next level because I know the "more people" never includes yourself........it just includes people not like you..... I can just as easily end up there as anyone, your ASSumptions are typical for an atheist... Matthew 23:15 [15]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. "There" is where you stand wally......not where you go some day that some people painted pictures about to scare you....
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