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Post by believingjesus on Aug 17, 2023 17:08:14 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking lately about how Christianity emphasizes having faith as a positive moral virtue and how wrong this is.
If you think that having faith is important to being a moral person please explain to me why it makes me more moral if I believe stories like Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jonah and the fish, and Adam and Eve talking to a snake, to name a few?
If I’m convinced (and for good reason imo) these stories never happened why should I believe them? And how would claiming to believe them (when I don’t) be a good thing?
I really want to understand how faith is integral to morality.
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Post by snow on Aug 17, 2023 17:11:57 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking lately about how Christianity emphasizes having faith as a positive moral virtue and how wrong this is. If you think that having faith is important to being a moral person please explain to me why it makes me more moral if I believe stories like Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jonah and the fish, and Adam and Eve talking to a snake, to name a few? If I’m convinced (and for good reason imo) these stories never happened why should I believe them? And how would claiming to believe them (when I don’t) be a good thing? I really want to understand how faith is integral to morality. In my opinion it's not. Look at what's happening right now. Head workers supposedly have a lot of faith and feel they are God's chosen servants and yet they have done some of the most immoral things imaginable. Anyone that would coverup for a predator is immoral. Yet they claim great faith, see it as a great virtue. So no. Faith is not integral to morality.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 18:48:14 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking lately about how Christianity emphasizes having faith as a positive moral virtue and how wrong this is. If you think that having faith is important to being a moral person please explain to me why it makes me more moral if I believe stories like Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jonah and the fish, and Adam and Eve talking to a snake, to name a few? If I’m convinced (and for good reason imo) these stories never happened why should I believe them? And how would claiming to believe them (when I don’t) be a good thing? I really want to understand how faith is integral to morality. Your faith should begin with Christ first the rest can and will fall into place later. The morality of God is based on himself and his ways not Noah, Jonah or Adam... Christ said evil people can do good things... There is a mountain of confusion here but off to night meeting here shortly oly 2...
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Post by Admin on Aug 17, 2023 21:15:25 GMT -5
It's a very good question. I haven't voted because none of the 3 options completely align with my view as a believer in God. In fact, yet again I find myself most closely aligned with snow's view expressed here ( snow being a professed atheist): In my opinion it's not. Look at what's happening right now. Head workers supposedly have a lot of faith and feel they are God's chosen servants and yet they have done some of the most immoral things imaginable. Anyone that would coverup for a predator is immoral. Yet they claim great faith, see it as a great virtue. So no. Faith is not integral to morality. Some of the most moral and ethical people I've known have no faith in God. But of course, my belief means that my understanding is that all us humans were created (given the gift of life) by a morally righteous God, who created us in his image. So no surprise to me that how we as humans deal with that gift of life, and inherent morality, can lead to great moral rectitude in good people with or without a professed faith in God. As pointed out, some of the most despicable recent behavior has been perpetrated by those who profess a very high standard of faith in... a system of religion. I simply note that "professing" such a faith is very different from "possessing" the spirit of the living God.
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Post by Dan on Aug 17, 2023 23:21:33 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking lately about how Christianity emphasizes having faith as a positive moral virtue and how wrong this is. If you think that having faith is important to being a moral person please explain to me why it makes me more moral if I believe stories like Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jonah and the fish, and Adam and Eve talking to a snake, to name a few? If I’m convinced (and for good reason imo) these stories never happened why should I believe them? And how would claiming to believe them (when I don’t) be a good thing? I really want to understand how faith is integral to morality.
I selected the first choice, even though you can be a moral person without the requirement of faith.. And depending on what you have faith in, it can actually make you a bad person too, e.g; A Muslim flying a plane into a building while praising Allah or a Jew demanding an innocent man be put to death.
Christian faith emphasizes the moral virtues taught by Christ and they are not wrong to a believer. Faith is more than moral values, its the belief, trust, and obedience to God, but of course morals are a component of faith.
We are not born innately good or morally neutral. We are born sinners, and every person’s destiny is death. We are only made righteous by he who was righteous, "The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17).
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Post by mountain on Aug 18, 2023 4:04:01 GMT -5
We were created in the image of God, to live by every word that comes out of God's mouth, for the purpose of glorifying God with our lives. In the beginning man was created righteous (perfect) until his fall. No need for morality back then, just 100% obedience to the mind and will of our creator.
At the fall we took on human nature with its innate moral compass of the knowledge of good and evil, which was necessary to steer a course as best we can, separated from God. Having ditched righteousness, morality was a necessary survival factor as we found ourselves up S*** Creek. Without morality there was no paddle.
Morality is a temporal life jacket. What is required for life everlasting is righteousness, which is what it was in the beginning, i.e. doing what we were created to do, live righteously before God. Not morally, because morals have different interpretations across the globe. Righteousness is a far higher standard than morals, though by design many moral standards are drawn from righteous behaviour.
To live righteously requires faith, not morals. Righteousness is the perfect standard applicable across the globe. We are required to have faith in the righteous life example and death of Christ and to follow same, which proves our faith or righteousness.
Morals really only have a temporary weights and measures check for this life. Faith in the righteous example of Christ is on a level way above human morals.
Conclusion: a human being can be morally sound, but bereft of any belief in God. A righteous person only maintains that righteous position if they are living their lives under the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. If they are or become morally unsound, like Adam and Eve they have abandoned their righteous position and are in need of restoration through the proper repentence and forgiveness process.
(Wally Aug. 2023)
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