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Post by leader on Aug 5, 2023 18:46:40 GMT -5
Elizabeth Ky convention (held recently) that when Jerome Frandle got up to speak that a good share of the congregation walked out. Then a worker told Jerome that he had better sit down.
I heard this through the grapevine. Wondering if anyone can confirm. Seems like a pretty big deal IMO.
Why has the dude not been kicked out yet?
I heard stories from my grandma that the man had a briefcase full of money. She was not happy with how he handled stuff in Michigan. He even served time for what he did, though not nearly enough.
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Post by marieb on Aug 5, 2023 20:22:21 GMT -5
I was not aware of a convention at Elizabeth, KY nor of any conventions yet this year in KY?? I heard this rumor a month or so ago. Perhaps it is true, but it seems like something is not quite right about the story??? Hope someone can clarify this so the next time I hear I will know if it is true or false.
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Post by marieb on Aug 5, 2023 20:34:53 GMT -5
If it is true, it was probably Elizabeth CO. Two conventions held there in June. IMHO more likely to happen in CO than KY. No convention at Elizabeth (Elizabethtown, KY). At least part of the story clarified.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 5, 2023 21:51:39 GMT -5
I was not aware of a convention at Elizabeth, KY nor of any conventions yet this year in KY?? I heard this rumor a month or so ago. Perhaps it is true, but it seems like something is not quite right about the story??? Hope someone can clarify this so the next time I hear I will know if it is true or false. I would like to know if Admin can confirm the walkout story. This is a big deal and if it is not true the story should be stopped in its tracks.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 5, 2023 22:18:32 GMT -5
I was not aware of a convention at Elizabeth, KY nor of any conventions yet this year in KY?? I heard this rumor a month or so ago. Perhaps it is true, but it seems like something is not quite right about the story??? Hope someone can clarify this so the next time I hear I will know if it is true or false. I would like to know if Admin can confirm the walkout story. This is a big deal and if it is not true the story should be stopped in its tracks. Sounds like a tall tale to me. Why would they visibly protest against someone who has already paid his debt to society in prison for non-reporting, yet they won't protest Ray Hoffmann protecting Ira and Leslie?
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Post by Admin on Aug 6, 2023 7:48:01 GMT -5
I would like to know if Admin can confirm the walkout story. This is a big deal and if it is not true the story should be stopped in its tracks. Sorry, I don't have any confirmation that any such walkout occurred. But then, it's not clear which Elizabeth convention is being referenced (seems Elizabeth CO would be most likely candidate). Then again, there certainly are plenty of rumors going around at the moment.
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Post by marieb on Aug 6, 2023 9:58:31 GMT -5
Jerome was on the speaking list at Elizabeth, CO both 1 & 2. Friends discussed both conventions, but not one word of this occurring. It is possible no one would mention it, but I doubt it. More likely, someone has thrown this out there so when proved untrue, can say "See it is just lies on the internet." Just saying, a possibility. Will keep my ear to the ground. Whatever, it was not an earth shaking event for concerned friends. I have no motive to prove it true or untrue other than I like to know what the truth is. It seems a rather scarce commodity these days.
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Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 17:29:13 GMT -5
I honestly can't see that happening. Even with today's circumstances. Those who are attending the conventions are going to be the ones that still support the workers for the most part.
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Post by stargazer on Aug 6, 2023 21:56:46 GMT -5
Didnt happen
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Post by leader on Aug 6, 2023 22:43:00 GMT -5
I'm trying to get more info.
The way it was presented to me the person who first reported what happened didn't even understand why it was happening cuz they weren't familiar with any of the scandals around Jerome. So it seemed credible but who knows.
Anyway, even if it is false, if nothing else there are people angry with Jerome within the church and rumors are circulating.
It did strike me as incredible. I don't know how you could continue as a worker or overseer after such an event.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 7, 2023 9:45:09 GMT -5
Elizabeth Ky convention (held recently) that when Jerome Frandle got up to speak that a good share of the congregation walked out. Then a worker told Jerome that he had better sit down. I heard this through the grapevine. Wondering if anyone can confirm. Seems like a pretty big deal IMO. Why has the dude not been kicked out yet? I heard stories from my grandma that the man had a briefcase full of money. She was not happy with how he handled stuff in Michigan. He even served time for what he did, though not nearly enough. \ If it is through the grapevine then it is likely not true.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 9, 2023 20:02:55 GMT -5
I'm trying to get more info. The way it was presented to me the person who first reported what happened didn't even understand why it was happening cuz they weren't familiar with any of the scandals around Jerome. So it seemed credible but who knows. Anyway, even if it is false, if nothing else there are people angry with Jerome within the church and rumors are circulating. It did strike me as incredible. I don't know how you could continue as a worker or overseer after such an event. In any case, Jerome was NOT prosecuted for CSA. He was charged with not reporting a couple of offenders on his staff who were prosecuted for that. I understand that was the first time an overseer was charged with that offense.
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Post by countryroads on Aug 10, 2023 9:27:22 GMT -5
There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if untrue, they falsely create the impression of a response to the problem that may not actually exist.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 10, 2023 9:30:15 GMT -5
There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if untrue, they falsely create the impression of a response to the problem that may not actually exist. This is absurd. Don't believe it.
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Post by snow on Aug 10, 2023 12:17:53 GMT -5
There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if untrue, they falsely create the impression of a response to the problem that may not actually exist. Well some of the letters going around say that no abusers are allowed at convention and some even add that no persons that enabled the abuser by knowing and not doing any were also not allowed. Jerome Frandle went to jail for that 2nd crime. So wouldn't that mean he is not allowed at convention. It's been proven that he didn't do anything when he knew about CSA by some of his staff. I doubt that these stories have any truth to them. But if they are out there to make it seem like something is being done, that's worrisome. It gives the false illusion that they are really doing something.
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Post by neighbour on Aug 10, 2023 12:26:51 GMT -5
This is highly unlikely. I've heard that Jerome went on a little tour of sorts after his conviction to inform other overseers of their obligations. If anything that seems proactive.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 10, 2023 21:50:41 GMT -5
This is highly unlikely. I've heard that Jerome went on a little tour of sorts after his conviction to inform other overseers of their obligations. If anything that seems proactive. He's the right person to do just that. If they won't listen to him they wouldn't take it from anyone else.
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Post by mountain on Aug 11, 2023 5:19:32 GMT -5
There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if untrue, they falsely create the impression of a response to the problem that may not actually exist. This is absurd. Don't believe it. Why did you have to go and spoil things? Have you never heard about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story?
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Post by snow on Aug 11, 2023 14:16:54 GMT -5
Well if the friends of one town hall listening tour have their say he won't be able to be an overseer because he was an enabler. A convicted enabler.
We’ve been speaking together for over two hours now. I’d like to close with a thought on trust. In corporations, when something of this magnitude occurs, the CEO steps down. Even if they are not personally responsible/guilty, the CEO steps down because the crisis occurred on their watch. Of course, our fellowship isn’t a business. But we do need transparency and repentance and trust from the top. If we can’t trust the top, then what?? I see different things happening region to region, and that concerns me. I grew up believing we were one fellowship. I’d like to see that be a reality. I’d like to see unified change across the board. I’d like to see those in authority making unified decisions. I hope this can come out of the overseers meeting coming up.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Aug 11, 2023 15:48:57 GMT -5
There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if untrue, they falsely create the impression of a response to the problem that may not actually exist. This is absurd. Don't believe it. He was disinvited TX/NM conventions after the friends got wind he was going to be there and they said, “No way. We won’t have that.”
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Aug 11, 2023 15:56:31 GMT -5
Well if the friends of one town hall listening tour have their say he won't be able to be an overseer because he was an enabler. A convicted enabler. We’ve been speaking together for over two hours now. I’d like to close with a thought on trust. In corporations, when something of this magnitude occurs, the CEO steps down. Even if they are not personally responsible/guilty, the CEO steps down because the crisis occurred on their watch. Of course, our fellowship isn’t a business. But we do need transparency and repentance and trust from the top. If we can’t trust the top, then what?? I see different things happening region to region, and that concerns me. I grew up believing we were one fellowship. I’d like to see that be a reality. I’d like to see unified change across the board. I’d like to see those in authority making unified decisions. I hope this can come out of the overseers meeting coming up.Going forward there are many valuable lessons to be learned. Speak up. That goes for everyone top to bottom. Hold one another accountable. Be kind, but be firm and don’t always just keep the peace. Pursue peace. The process of pursuing peace often is not peaceful. Those in positions of authority who knew about CSA and did nothing or covered up are complicit in it. Stop being so secretive. Every child of God deserves to know about things which are harmful to the church. It may shake their trust, but they still need to know. No more secrets. Be willing to openly engage in difficult conversations. Get out of your comfort zones. An unwillingness to talk about it is the equivalent of covering it up.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 11, 2023 20:07:32 GMT -5
Well if the friends of one town hall listening tour have their say he won't be able to be an overseer because he was an enabler. A convicted enabler. We’ve been speaking together for over two hours now. I’d like to close with a thought on trust. In corporations, when something of this magnitude occurs, the CEO steps down. Even if they are not personally responsible/guilty, the CEO steps down because the crisis occurred on their watch. Of course, our fellowship isn’t a business. But we do need transparency and repentance and trust from the top. If we can’t trust the top, then what?? I see different things happening region to region, and that concerns me. I grew up believing we were one fellowship. I’d like to see that be a reality. I’d like to see unified change across the board. I’d like to see those in authority making unified decisions. I hope this can come out of the overseers meeting coming up.Going forward there are many valuable lessons to be learned. Speak up. That goes for everyone top to bottom. Hold one another accountable. Be kind, but be firm and don’t always just keep the peace. Pursue peace. The process of pursuing peace often is not peaceful. Those in positions of authority who knew about CSA and did nothing or covered up are complicit in it. Stop being so secretive. Every child of God deserves to know about things which are harmful to the church. It may shake their trust, but they still need to know. No more secrets. Be willing to openly engage in difficult conversations. Get out of your comfort zones. An unwillingness to talk about it is the equivalent of covering it up. Pretending there are no problems is what this phrase means: "Saying peace, peace, when there is no peace." Peace is had when all are held accountable equitably. Granted, it takes grace of character, but that is the essence of peace.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Aug 11, 2023 21:37:49 GMT -5
Going forward there are many valuable lessons to be learned. Speak up. That goes for everyone top to bottom. Hold one another accountable. Be kind, but be firm and don’t always just keep the peace. Pursue peace. The process of pursuing peace often is not peaceful. Those in positions of authority who knew about CSA and did nothing or covered up are complicit in it. Stop being so secretive. Every child of God deserves to know about things which are harmful to the church. It may shake their trust, but they still need to know. No more secrets. Be willing to openly engage in difficult conversations. Get out of your comfort zones. An unwillingness to talk about it is the equivalent of covering it up. Pretending there are no problems is what this phrase means: "Saying peace, peace, when there is no peace." Peace is had when all are held accountable equitably. Granted, it takes grace of character, but that is the essence of peace. And my favorite line from the movie Spotlight: "I'm not crazy. I'm not paranoid. I'm experienced." Said by the grouchy lawyer who spoke the truth bluntly. Maybe not seasoned with grace. But the truth. Maybe grouchy. But his heart was in the right place. I try to keep that in mind. It's not the "nice" ones we should always trust.
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