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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 25, 2023 10:04:56 GMT -5
I think what I am observing more and more is concern for quantity over quality, at this point there are two issues. One there is a limited pool of workers to pick from, so individuals who would never naturally be leaders are put into positions as "overseers". Two I see some form of politics as the selection process (we have proof of this, because we have had a high number of criminal overseers / immoral). It made me think of how the "culture" of our fellowship impacts the decisions on who goes to the top.
1. There is the loyalty to not criticise, this is very dangerous, we all benefit from critique it helps us develop. 2. The ability to smooth over problems through excommunication. It breaks my hear to read of the Sri Lanka problems where a brother worker exed a lady, almost just because he felt like it. 3. The inability to step back and say, I am sorry, I was wrong. It is unbelievable how much healing there would be with this. I felt this back in 2004 when I first came across these boards and the Alberta mess. It never really happened. 4. The secrecy, if you can hide something you are deemed worthy to lead.
I have just randomly looked at a list from only about 8 years ago, 3 out of the work, 1 dead (that I'm aware off) so that leaves 4 brother workers.. so who gets picked next? Is it the next available or someone sought for righteous qualities?
LeRoy Sandford` John Smart Topeka – Clyde, KS Stanley Morrison Jon Platte Ainsworth – Columbus, NE Brad Stuefen Leslie Pountney Alliance – Valentine, NE Jonathan MacDonald Doug Ogden Broken Bow – Kearney Andy Kuehn coordinating with Titus Lehman in Omaha, NE and Council Bluffs, IA
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2023 10:29:07 GMT -5
I think what I am observing more and more is concern for quantity over quality, at this point there are two issues. One there is a limited pool of workers to pick from, so individuals who would never naturally be leaders are put into positions as "overseers". Two I see some form of politics as the selection process (we have proof of this, because we have had a high number of criminal overseers / immoral). It made me think of how the "culture" of our fellowship impacts the decisions on who goes to the top. 1. There is the loyalty to not criticise, this is very dangerous, we all benefit from critique it helps us develop. 2. The ability to smooth over problems through excommunication. It breaks my hear to read of the Sri Lanka problems where a brother worker exed a lady, almost just because he felt like it. 3. The inability to step back and say, I am sorry, I was wrong. It is unbelievable how much healing there would be with this. I felt this back in 2004 when I first came across these boards and the Alberta mess. It never really happened. 4. The secrecy, if you can hide something you are deemed worthy to lead. I have just randomly looked at a list from only about 8 years ago, 3 out of the work, 1 dead (that I'm aware off) so that leaves 4 brother workers.. so who gets picked next? Is it the next available or someone sought for righteous qualities? LeRoy Sandford` John Smart Topeka – Clyde, KS Stanley Morrison Jon Platte Ainsworth – Columbus, NE Brad Stuefen Leslie Pountney Alliance – Valentine, NE Jonathan MacDonald Doug Ogden Broken Bow – Kearney Andy Kuehn coordinating with Titus Lehman in Omaha, NE and Council Bluffs, IA TL if you ask me, he acknowledges the 2x2 beginnings and such, levelheaded and wise... Met him several years ago for lunch after Sunday morning in my area with my elder... Was Amish so actually knows some of my relatives in that faith still. << not a requirement or consideration but a personal observation.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 25, 2023 10:52:29 GMT -5
I think what I am observing more and more is concern for quantity over quality, at this point there are two issues. One there is a limited pool of workers to pick from, so individuals who would never naturally be leaders are put into positions as "overseers". Two I see some form of politics as the selection process (we have proof of this, because we have had a high number of criminal overseers / immoral). It made me think of how the "culture" of our fellowship impacts the decisions on who goes to the top. 1. There is the loyalty to not criticise, this is very dangerous, we all benefit from critique it helps us develop. 2. The ability to smooth over problems through excommunication. It breaks my hear to read of the Sri Lanka problems where a brother worker exed a lady, almost just because he felt like it. 3. The inability to step back and say, I am sorry, I was wrong. It is unbelievable how much healing there would be with this. I felt this back in 2004 when I first came across these boards and the Alberta mess. It never really happened. 4. The secrecy, if you can hide something you are deemed worthy to lead. I have just randomly looked at a list from only about 8 years ago, 3 out of the work, 1 dead (that I'm aware off) so that leaves 4 brother workers.. so who gets picked next? Is it the next available or someone sought for righteous qualities? LeRoy Sandford` John Smart Topeka – Clyde, KS Stanley Morrison Jon Platte Ainsworth – Columbus, NE Brad Stuefen Leslie Pountney Alliance – Valentine, NE Jonathan MacDonald Doug Ogden Broken Bow – Kearney Andy Kuehn coordinating with Titus Lehman in Omaha, NE and Council Bluffs, IA TL if you ask me, he acknowledges the 2x2 beginnings and such, levelheaded and wise... Met him several years ago for lunch after Sunday morning in my area with my elder... Was Amish so actually knows some of my relatives in that faith still. << not a requirement or consideration but a personal observation. Hi Wally, Sorry I didn't mean this directed at TL - but rather a general comment that as numbers fall, maybe there is a desperation for a worker to take the lead.. and then it is given to someone inappropriate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2023 10:54:13 GMT -5
TL if you ask me, he acknowledges the 2x2 beginnings and such, levelheaded and wise... Met him several years ago for lunch after Sunday morning in my area with my elder... Was Amish so actually knows some of my relatives in that faith still. << not a requirement or consideration but a personal observation. Hi Wally, Sorry I didn't mean this directed at TL - but rather a general comment that as numbers fall, maybe there is a desperation for a worker to take the lead.. and then it is given to someone inappropriate. oops
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Post by snow on Jul 25, 2023 14:41:29 GMT -5
I think what I am observing more and more is concern for quantity over quality, at this point there are two issues. One there is a limited pool of workers to pick from, so individuals who would never naturally be leaders are put into positions as "overseers". Two I see some form of politics as the selection process (we have proof of this, because we have had a high number of criminal overseers / immoral). It made me think of how the "culture" of our fellowship impacts the decisions on who goes to the top. 1. There is the loyalty to not criticise, this is very dangerous, we all benefit from critique it helps us develop. 2. The ability to smooth over problems through excommunication. It breaks my hear to read of the Sri Lanka problems where a brother worker exed a lady, almost just because he felt like it. 3. The inability to step back and say, I am sorry, I was wrong. It is unbelievable how much healing there would be with this. I felt this back in 2004 when I first came across these boards and the Alberta mess. It never really happened. 4. The secrecy, if you can hide something you are deemed worthy to lead. I have just randomly looked at a list from only about 8 years ago, 3 out of the work, 1 dead (that I'm aware off) so that leaves 4 brother workers.. so who gets picked next? Is it the next available or someone sought for righteous qualities? LeRoy Sandford` John Smart Topeka – Clyde, KS Stanley Morrison Jon Platte Ainsworth – Columbus, NE Brad Stuefen Leslie Pountney Alliance – Valentine, NE Jonathan MacDonald Doug Ogden Broken Bow – Kearney Andy Kuehn coordinating with Titus Lehman in Omaha, NE and Council Bluffs, IA I agree that the numbers dwindling over the years makes it more about quantity than quality. Makes sense. That's going to be even more of an issue after this with the amount of people leaving right now. The smaller the group the smaller the pool to choose from. I think that's why some of the current overseers are not cooperating and stepping down when they should be.
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Post by margaret on Aug 14, 2023 23:18:20 GMT -5
I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone could think there’s a need for overseers at all. It’s totally not what Jesus encouraged. So of COURSE there’s going to be ongoing problems. No faith.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 15, 2023 0:02:23 GMT -5
I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone could think there’s a need for overseers at all. It’s totally not what Jesus encouraged. So of COURSE there’s going to be ongoing problems. No faith. One would believe this is so. Unfortunately, among human beings, nothing works for everyone, and they organize to control their environment. It's like the weather -- it's circular and sometimes gets OUT of control, like a hurricane.
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Post by margaret on Aug 15, 2023 0:18:11 GMT -5
I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone could think there’s a need for overseers at all. It’s totally not what Jesus encouraged. So of COURSE there’s going to be ongoing problems. No faith. One would believe this is so. Unfortunately, among human beings, nothing works for everyone, and they organize to control their environment. It's like the weather -- it's circular and sometimes gets OUT of control, like a hurricane. It needs a hurricane. Might be brewing up for quite a storm.
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