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Post by to Nathan9 on Aug 5, 2007 9:59:50 GMT -5
Maybe I struck a nerve. No, your computer does that for you. Or so you say. I wouldn't expect you to confess to it. Now you're being paranoid. I wasn't telling it like the gospel truth. I posed it as a "possibility". Here it is again with highlights to emphasize what you missed... It has been mentioned that Nathan has access to information typically only the administrator can see, specifically IP addresses.
Consider another possibility.
Nathan has his own website and in his posts is frequently referencing his website, providing the url, and telling readers to visit his website for more information.
Bert has his own website also and does the same thing.
Anyone visiting either of these sites is giving away their IP address. Active avatars, active images, and embedded scripts may be to blame for some IP address exposure, but browsing habits are likely the biggest culprit.
For those of you concerned about your IP address falling into the hands of the Standing True group, Nathan, Bert, etc., consider staying away from their websites.Every statement of fact I made was true. Every possibility I posed was identified as such. Any advice I offered was given as a suggestion, not an order or a threat. I was simply posing an observation and suggesting an alternate theory. If I ruffled your feathers and stepped on your toes, that's your problem. Have a nice day.
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Post by to fmofthe2x2s on Aug 5, 2007 10:24:57 GMT -5
Some people do care. Maybe not you, but some people do. So... some people would like to remain as anonymous as possible without having to continually battle those who deliberately snoop. I think this has a lot to do with the unknown; What is the deliberate snooper going to do with the information? Suppose a random caller asks you for your mother's maiden name. Will you give it to him? He can't do much with it, by itself, but the question is; What else does he know and what is he going to do with the information? No. I don't know. It depends on who they are, what their motives are, what other information they have, and what resources they have access to. I'm just trying to look at it from a perspective other than my own. This is funny. You and I are usually on the same side of things. It's interesting to be on the other side of your opinion. Are you blowing smoke? Have you had a rough day? Or maybe you're just trying to make a case for male PMS.
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Post by Well Said WOE on Aug 5, 2007 18:30:09 GMT -5
Yes, there are several current 2x2s that I personally know here. I remember the workers telling us to steer clear of websites like this, but there were also workers who told us not to read other versions of the bible, read Christian self-help books, or use bible chapter summary guides. To me, that's like saying we shouldn't go out in the world because the world will challenge our faith and present different views. If you are strong in your faith and are guided by God, you shouldn't have a problem. Weak faithless people are always blaming others for their own lack of faith. To bad the workers want the faith of their captives to be in them and not in God. If you want to find a group of conformist, look at the 2x2. Weak minds seem to be drawn to each other out of need.
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Post by to Nathan9 on Aug 5, 2007 22:49:43 GMT -5
Sigh. I feel like I'm arguing with a two-year old. Then why on earth are you so defensive about a theory? The IP can tell you a lot if you know what to do with it. You say you don't know what to do with it. We'll have to take your word for it. You may not. Has anyone ever asked you for your website's visitor information? Have you ever given anyone your website's visitor information? If you say so. If you say so. I want to believe you but my gut tells me that something isn't right here. You are getting awfully defensive over a theory. Then what is it really? Why all this over a theory? Maybe you don't know what a theory is. dictionary.reference.com/browse/theoryIt was a theory. I never proclaimed it as gospel. "Mentioned" does not mean "Fact". dictionary.reference.com/browse/mentiondictionary.reference.com/browse/factYou only see what you and that chip on your shoulder want to. I said this: Nathan has his own website and in his posts is frequently referencing his website, providing the url, and telling readers to visit his website for more information.Then I said this: Bert has his own website also and does the same thing.The way this works is as follows: The red paragraph attributes to Bert the same behavior attributed to Nathan by the Green paragraph. Maybe making it wordier would have pleased you more: Nathan has his own website and in his posts is frequently referencing his website, providing the url, and telling readers to visit his website for more information.
Bert has his own website and in his posts is frequently referencing his website, providing the url, and telling readers to visit his website for more information.I sure hope you're not color blind. I was quite serious but it was just a theory. Wow! At the very last you finally recognize it as a theory! Thanks so much, I think, for finally getting it, if indeed you have.
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Post by _ on Aug 5, 2007 23:07:03 GMT -5
Do you even know what you're talking about? What does my Mother's maiden name have to do with one's IP address? Nothing... This idea that someone getting your IP address is somehow going to equate to mass havoc in your life is absurd... If you're worried then simply use a product from www.anonymizer.com and be done with it...
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Post by to fmofthe2x2s on Aug 5, 2007 23:27:29 GMT -5
Do you even know what you're talking about? Yes. I was using that to illustrate a point. You want to play dumb. Fine. I never said this. Do you have a point or are you just here to bicker? I'm not worried. I'm just frustrated at yet another affront to what used to be assumed privacy from deliberate snooping. It's nothing new I suppose. The more connected we become, the less privacy we have, and the more we need Anti-Virus, Anti-Adware, Anti-Spyware, Firewalls, Web-Anonymizers, Lifelock, etc.
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Post by Has Anyone on Aug 5, 2007 23:52:51 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that pages have been deleted from the forum.
I was looking specifically for the past posts that I remember where Nathan and I believe it was Diane said they could get the IP's from this TMB of StandingTrue members who post things from the ST group here.
Now the pages have been deleted. I believe this deletion happened just about the same time this thread started. What is going on here? Something is not adding up for sure.
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Post by Statistics on Aug 5, 2007 23:54:40 GMT -5
The workers have advised the friends to stay away from here. This was not empty advice. This was advice given in love. The friends really do need to stay away from here. It saddens us to see them here feeding with the dogs. If they insist on feeding here we have no choice but to remove them from our midst. How? We have our ways. We know what we're doing. The apostates aren't the only ones who avoid detection. This seems like an appropriate time for one final warning. Friends: Please, please, please, reconsider your presence here. We beg it of you. This is no place for a child of God. Stay away from this place so we can continue to enjoy fellowship with you. With Love, A Friend in Christ So... this threat was posted on Saturday, August 4, 2007 at 1:57pm. Was it taken seriously? On Sunday, July 29, 2007 from 3am to 10pm there were 216 posts (94 member posts and 122 guest posts) to the main board. On Sunday, August 5, 2007 from 3am to 10pm there were 98 posts (53 member posts and 45 guest posts) to the main board. Member posts to the main board dropped by 43.6%. Guest posts to the main board dropped by 63.1%. Total posts to the main board dropped by 54.6%. I don't know if this means anything or not. I just found it interesting and thought I'd share it.
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Post by Statistics on Aug 6, 2007 0:42:44 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that pages have been deleted from the forum. I was looking specifically for the past posts that I remember where Nathan and I believe it was Diane said they could get the IP's from this TMB of StandingTrue members who post things from the ST group here. Now the pages have been deleted. I believe this deletion happened just about the same time this thread started. What is going on here? Something is not adding up for sure. Well this is certainly interesting. As it happens and by dumb luck, when I was gathering data for my previous post (reply 38), the data I captured shows that several posts were deleted sometime Sunday (Aug 5). To be more exact, at least 37 posts were deleted. I gathered my data for last week's post count on Sunday (Aug 5) around 8am. I counted 94 member posts. When I gather the same data now, I count 57 member posts. I've double checked all my other gathered data. Last week's member post count (from 94 to 57) is all that's changed. Members can delete their own posts. Someone has been busy. This may be a different issue than what you are talking about. By the way, I did see these posts as I was counting posts, are these what you're talking about? professing.proboards16.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1185656585&page=2#1186070429professing.proboards16.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1185656585&page=2#1186075287
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Post by Malicious images on Aug 6, 2007 8:07:14 GMT -5
Can PHP script be parsed into images? I think so. If I remember correctly, there is a problem now with exploits related to images. Naturally, put malicious code in images and even they are suspect. For some reason, I seem to remember someone saying GIF images were more susceptible but maybe it's just that they're used more in simple web page graphics. I may be remembering wrong if I am please correct me.
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Post by Nope on Aug 6, 2007 9:38:09 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that pages have been deleted from the forum. I was looking specifically for the past posts that I remember where Nathan and I believe it was Diane said they could get the IP's from this TMB of StandingTrue members who post things from the ST group here. Now the pages have been deleted. I believe this deletion happened just about the same time this thread started. What is going on here? Something is not adding up for sure. Well this is certainly interesting. As it happens and by dumb luck, when I was gathering data for my previous post (reply 38), the data I captured shows that several posts were deleted sometime Sunday (Aug 5). To be more exact, at least 37 posts were deleted. I gathered my data for last week's post count on Sunday (Aug 5) around 8am. I counted 94 member posts. When I gather the same data now, I count 57 member posts. I've double checked all my other gathered data. Last week's member post count (from 94 to 57) is all that's changed. Members can delete their own posts. Someone has been busy. This may be a different issue than what you are talking about. By the way, I did see these posts as I was counting posts, are these what you're talking about? professing.proboards16.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1185656585&page=2#1186070429professing.proboards16.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1185656585&page=2#1186075287Nope the pages that were of interest to me were down around page 67. Gone zip nadda
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Post by The heat on Aug 6, 2007 13:44:30 GMT -5
Sigh. I feel like I'm arguing with a two-year old. I think sometimes the heat and humidity in the Sunflower State makes people irritated. While the theories are true, there are much easier ways to collect IPs from pubic sites if anyone has a need to do that. The most interesting thing is to see posts from the same computer supporting claims just posted to make it look like others are in agreement! That and watching the use of "anonymous" posting methods. What many people don't realize is that computers themselves have 'fingerprints' that can be used to identify them. On a site like this, the 'fingerprint' is usually unique. You can look here to see some of the things people know about you when/after you visit: www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/ip.cgiLook at it this way - how long have you been posting and has anyone ever tracked you down via your IP??
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Post by 2 TH on Aug 6, 2007 15:13:07 GMT -5
I think sometimes the heat and humidity in the Sunflower State makes people irritated. What irritates you? Certainly not the heat. As I understand it, there are many ways. Yes that does sound most interesting. Also most interesting is the motives of the people that harvest IPs. Given the low readership, I imagine so. Makes one wonder, since enough "fingerprint" is there without the IP, why the IP harvesting? Me? No. Not yet anyway. I suppose it could happen though when I piss off the right TMB user with an axe to grind. Others? Not so lucky. Nathan used to be anonymous. So did Bryan. Jason too. And Syd. I'm sure there's more. You and I aren't that different. We're both here for several reasons, the most significant of which is amusement. Information, serious discussion, and light-hearted discussion are all secondary. It's been good talking to you. I've never had a stalker of my own before. Let me know if I've broken any stalker-stalkee communication ground-rules.
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Post by Not Hot on Aug 6, 2007 16:46:36 GMT -5
What irritates you? Certainly not the heat. No, that is not a problem here! Many may be overstating it. I can think of 4. I do not think anyone is actually doing this. The idea of tying the IPs to the Yahoo Group (Standing True) doesn't make much sense since that is (I believe) an email list and if people use a Web based email there will be no useful information. Personally, I looked at IPs because I wanted to see why one might do that. Turns out it was more revealing than I had thought. There are a surprising number of IPs used. The fingerprinting just means you can follow a posted even though the IP keeps changing. And, realistically, it is a pain (and slow) to use most of those services. Plus the fact that most of them are transparent. Not at all! Even septenary! Oh, you know I will!
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Post by 2 NH on Aug 6, 2007 19:36:33 GMT -5
No, that is not a problem here! I'd hope not. Well I'm no whiz kid but I can think of some. 1. Using embedded images or avatars hosted on a controlled site. 2. Providing URL web-links to a controlled site. 3. Embedded scripts that log data to a controlled site. 4. Being the administrator of the board or otherwise having access to his account. 5. Being a proboards sponsor with access to visitor data. Harvesting? I guess it depends on your view of just how belligerent some of the F&W can be. Maybe I'm to pessimistic. I've seen some pretty awful things and have been on the receiving end of considerable ugliness myself, having been divorced. How optimistic would you characterize your view of the F&W? At some level, harvesting is done by some. You are proof of that. By web based email, are you talking about hotmail, yahoo, gmail, etc? Because I thought those would allow you to view the originating IP. Are you saying that curiosity was your only motivation? At some level I think you were motivated by something else. A desire for confrontation maybe? A chance to "out" someone? Or a chance to hint at "outing" someone? You were IP fishing, something you could have kept quiet about, but instead you opted to come here and advertise what you were doing. Why? I would have thought the IP count would be fairly low. Sorry to hear that! ;D I'm afraid you've lost me with that one. Great! What are you doing this Friday?
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Post by Whatever on Aug 6, 2007 19:54:35 GMT -5
So a CRACKER is still talking to himself and still harvesting.
As if this is not being done to cause trouble.
I believe there is a thread back a few months where a whole list of IP was harvested off this site. Either they were posted by the Admin or by the WACKER. Don't matter. Still reveals a lot.
No White Hats here.
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Post by Yes but on Aug 6, 2007 20:14:42 GMT -5
Well I'm no whiz kid but I can think of some. 1. Using embedded images or avatars hosted on a controlled site. 2. Providing URL web-links to a controlled site. 3. Embedded scripts that log data to a controlled site. 4. Being the administrator of the board or otherwise having access to his account. 5. Being a proboards sponsor with access to visitor data. 1. - the easiest to do but the easiest to spot 2 - but people have to click so you miss some. 3 - tough to do on this site. Inserting a script into a post is very well protected. 4. - That is true but the administrator can only see the posters but not all the readers. 5 - They will give you demographics but not the IPs. Of course, you could log them. But that is $ so it would have to be worth something. I have never had a problem personally. You got me there! Not that I could see. You can track it back to the server but that is about all. Unless I have supressed it! [guote]A desire for confrontation maybe?[/quote]Only if I was lied to. If I was going to do that I would just publish the IP for every post. Nope - I have no desire to do that. I was quiet for years. But I decided that people should know that their IPs were easily available to anyone. I know from experience that some people would like to be able to read and post without having anyone know it. If that is the case people need to know they need to take steps to make it difficult to be tracked. So would have I. But there are a lot of people reading who never post. And a few people who post a lot. You said 2nd (secondary) and I upped it to 7th (septenary). Oh my! Are we going dancing?
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Post by Looks Like on Aug 6, 2007 20:23:57 GMT -5
I believe some serious question must be asked about this forum.
1) The StandingTrue group was started by DH and Nathan on about 1-27-2002.
~~~ True.
2) When was Nathans site started?
~~~ 7/2000
3) At the very start the administrator of the TMB posted his picture. His name was bryan but not the bryan who posts here.
~~~ His name is Ryan NOT Bryan.
4) There was a Brian Hilligoss (spelling) who used to be a worker and is an IT guy. He went to VN and then quit the work. I believe he is still posting. Is there a linkage to Nathan? Who knows, but then leaves some very interesting questions open.
~~~ I have heard of Brian H. but he and I have no connection as far as I know.
5) The whole point is--What is the purpose of this forum and why does the Admin want to hide?
Why don't they come foward and say why this forum was set up, who they are, and why they felt that they had to create it?
Why do the friends on the StandingTrue site want to hide?groups.yahoo.com/group/standingtrue/Why don't the ST people want to discuss issues which are causing tares in their perfect way?It is this posters opinion since I have been reading from 2003 that this TMB is not what it appears to be.
I would like full disclosure about this forum. I believe Nathan has direct access to this forum and I believe that DH very well may have been one who helped create it.
After all DH was also the one doing all of Nathans website build. HUMMMMMMMMMMMM~~~~ Yes, DH had helped a lot in the past but now I will do it myself. Some derf thinks they are smart. Someone wants us all to know how smart they are. What a joke.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 6, 2007 20:58:13 GMT -5
Great! What are you doing this Friday? Oh my! Are we going dancing? I wanna go dancing. M.
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Post by 2 YB on Aug 6, 2007 21:40:55 GMT -5
I have never had a problem personally. Why'd you leave? So you've never used an IP address, or some data derived from it... ...out of anger or frustration? ...for personal gain or enrichment? ...for revenge or giving someone their due? ...to take a jab or two at some pain in the ass? Oh I get it. I wouldn't go that far... for me anyway. Hey! Does you're wife know you're considering my offer? ;D
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Post by This on Aug 6, 2007 23:08:23 GMT -5
Whole thread is show directly that someone is harvesting IPs.
The Cracker has left their footprints and they know it.
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Post by As I said on Aug 7, 2007 8:39:58 GMT -5
I have never had a problem personally. Why'd you leave? Who said I did? Of, course, who said I didn't? I left because of personal choice. Nope - it's a message board. Not worth getting angry or upset. Nope - I didn't realize there was a market for IPs! Nope - Revenge would be getting back at someone for something they did. No one has done anything (at least not to me) that would deserve revenge Yes - when I was being lied to by 'someone' who claimed they were not responsible for posts made under different names I did make it known that their ID was easily determined. [/quote]Oh I get it. I wouldn't go that far... for me anyway.[/quote] I was looking for a prime number with biblical significance. I guess I could have gone with tertiary. I might have used primary but then - I was thinking prime numbers for some reason. Do I have a wife now? But then dancing is a social activity. Would a wife care?
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Post by Bigfoot on Aug 7, 2007 8:51:25 GMT -5
Whole thread is show directly that someone is harvesting IPs. The Cracker has left their footprints and they know it. Footprints as real as Bigfoot's! I wanted to harvest IPs but when I got to the IP field there were huge designs pressed into the crop and I lost a lot of IPs. Damn aliens and their crop circles!
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Post by Friday night on Aug 7, 2007 9:48:04 GMT -5
I wanna go dancing. M. Put on your fancy dress and dancing shoes. I'll put on my tails! Do you quickstep? Tango? Perhaps a waltz. Or the samba. Do you like the traveling dances? Or would a spot dance like the rumba be more to your taste? Social activity?!? It is the very heart of sensuality.
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Post by 2 AIS on Aug 7, 2007 11:27:44 GMT -5
A little birdie told me. Ahhh! There it is - your motivation. You were lied to and wanted to learn the truth. But that wasn't enough for you so you dealt them their just desert by exposing their lies and, as an added bonus, dropped a few hints here and there as to their location. Internet vigilantism with a side order of revenge. As a self-appointed judge, jury, and executioner here at the TMB, it would be reassuring to those of us being policed by you if you could ensure the rest of us that you have never, during your time here at the TMB, resorted to using an alias to post deceptively. A question comes to mind: "Who's watching the watchers?" That all depends on just where I plan on putting my hands. ;D
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Post by Just to be clear on Aug 7, 2007 15:26:41 GMT -5
Ahhh! There it is - your motivation. You were lied to and wanted to learn the truth. Nope - I already knew before being lied to. It was just a metter of using the tools at hand to expose the person who was having difficulties in telling the truth. Yes, it was a way to demonstrate that I did have the facts at hand to back up my statements. If you wish. However, there was no revenge. First of all, I do not care what anyone posts unless I am involved. I have posted under a plethora of names, look at this post to see the last 4 or 5. But no, I have not posted under a name to be deceptive. The watchers have very limited power other than being able to know who is who. I think you know there is more than one person watching! Oh, I think it is not your plan but my going alone with the plan that would make the difference.
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Post by 2 JTBC on Aug 7, 2007 17:05:24 GMT -5
If you wish. However, there was no revenge. Perhaps if it's not intentional, revenge is the wrong word. Is there a word for harm done out of ignorance or negligence? Then I am mistaken for sure as to which poster you are. They may have limited power in most cases, but not all. You seem like an intelligent man so I won't bore you with an example. But I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you can envision a scenario where listing someone's IP address or even their general geographic location can be harmful. The ability to cause this harm is power. The administrator of this board opted not to display the IP address of each post for a reason. He wanted this information kept private. I assume then that you are not the person disclosing IP addresses and general locations, and you are not the person "outing" some posters. Am I assuming correctly? Oh, I think it is not your plan but my going alone with the plan that would make the difference.[/quote] Awww come now, do you really think you can resist my charms?
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Post by Janet Unlogged on Aug 8, 2007 13:14:11 GMT -5
From "As I said" aka: XRay aka:many other handles of many types, some registered most not.
.
You did not find crap out. Your claims are only what you think you know. You are just a worthless Hack or Wacker. Did you notice that the poster (me Janet), the one who you were trying to dump on said in my IM to you they allowed others to use the same handle. Yup you got a couple of IPs' Big Deal. I can alos loge on to some remote computers using LOGMEIN. This just goes to show that no one really does not know who is who when they post here. It is kinda like when pruebert first posted and wanted people to belive that they were one person. So WHAT. I also happen to have IP's and know for a fact that Nathan posts with unregistered handles, as does Diane, Get, Bert and a few others to include YOU.
I started posting of a kind for one reason. After the last wack on this TMB where a whole list of IP was harvested I wondered about security issues. Since the Admin does not seem to care or actually knows and allows it I monitored closely what was going on. Then I baited and you took a big bite.
Now WE ALL KNOW
Who are you to decide that they should be responsible? Who made you overseerer of the TMB? Are you the Aministrator? If so then come forward and tell people that you are revealing IPs or harvesting them? If you are not the Administrator then you are worse then those who post under different Names. You do this and worse yet you hack IPs. What other purpose do you have in doing this except to make more trouble on this forum.
Also it appears that you only have an interest in anon posters who knock the 2x2's. So you have an agenda here don't you. Anyone who hacks IP's here is a low life scum. Oh yes I checked the DTIC IP section and I am using IE explorer and it showed Mozzilla. Hum how did that happen? I hope you are not spoofing a Government Web site and that is really a DTIC site? If not you may be in big do do.
As I said, someone who harvests IP's and then trys to pin people down on discussion boards like this are just plain low life scum even if you are the admin.
Why don't you put yourself up for review, Who are you and what is your real name? Reveal yourself and then feel free to tell everybody what you are doing and why. Any thing short of that makes you no better than those who in your "self-righteousness" feel justified to attack.
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS THE ONLY HACK ON THIS FORUM
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