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Junior Member
Posts: 71
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 3:56:05 GMT -5
Post by _ on Aug 4, 2007 3:56:05 GMT -5
In another thread you made the following statement - I repeat this for the umpteenth time: I can allow that "Salvation is possible outside of the Church, but not outside of Christ." Something being possible is far different then something being probable/presumed/ accepted/inferred/believed/understood... Common in the 2x2 church are those who hold an exclusive mindset saying salvation is possible outside the fellowship... but they are speaking of exceptions and special cases and not the norm... When pressed for an example, often tribesmen in jungles are talked about who have never come into contact with the 2x2 fellowship... rather then members of local fellowship churches down the street... So in light of this common response, I must request clarification of your statement... Do you believe salvation is just possible outside your fellowship, or do you acknowledge it is probable to the point of being the norm for those in the evangelical community who call themselves Christian?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 5:33:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2007 5:33:22 GMT -5
Can I add something?
I know quite a few religious people of Christian persuasion. Some are my friends. I find they select aspects of Jesus' life which they prefer: Jesus as the care-giver; Jesus the lover of children; Jesus the lover of sinners and so forth. Jesus is like a Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela type, just with higher credentials. There are aspects of Christ's life they are not comfortable with.
Beyond some (very elementary) moral basics these people don't appear much different to those who don't go to church.
These Christians are not seriously offended by (what should be) the outside world. They engage in the popular secular culture, ie television, fashions, fads, music, Hollywood actors etc.
They don't appear to be paying a price for what they believe, beyond their dues in church. Certainly they don't face ostracism, rejection or offense, which the bible certainly stated must come to those who love Christ.
And they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.)
Are such people saved, from our viewpoint? If they are content to stay as they are, then No.
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 6:44:00 GMT -5
Post by Anonymous on Aug 4, 2007 6:44:00 GMT -5
Ah, as if we could stop you. And as if we said no you would not add something anyway. I know quite a few religious people of Christian persuasion. Some are my friends. I find they select aspects of Jesus' life which they prefer: Jesus as the care-giver; Jesus the lover of children; Jesus the lover of sinners and so forth. Jesus is like a Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela type, just with higher credentials. There are aspects of Christ's life they are not comfortable with. There are aspects of the Christ and God with which the friends and workers are not comfortable. Beyond some (very elementary) moral basics these people don't appear much different to those who don't go to church. Many of the friends appear to be much the same as those who go to other churches or no church except for the woman with dress and hair. Yet there are other women in other fellowships that appear the same as the women of the friends and workers. These Christians are not seriously offended by (what should be) the outside world. They engage in the popular secular culture, ie television, fashions, fads, music, Hollywood actors etc. Perhaps such are not seriously affected. I know one "outsider" who entered a home of one of the friends and saw People Weekly magazine. He laughed and said "I thought you were supposed to abstain from this stuff." Many of the friends listen to so-called worldly music and have TV's and go to movies in theaters or rent them and wear fashions that others outside their (your) church do. They don't appear to be paying a price for what they believe, beyond their dues in church. Certainly they don't face ostracism, rejection or offense, which the bible certainly stated must come to those who love Christ. Hmmm, of what value is the price paid by God and Jesus? Do you think you could pay an equal amount? Are you ostracized? You have friends not in your church/fellowship, so I must think you are not. Do you know these people fully that they have told you "no one has ostracized me for my belief in Jesus"? Do you know all their family members and how they feel about their beliefs? And they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.) Just like the friends and workers. Are such people saved, from our viewpoint? If they are content to stay as they are, then No. Look in the mirror.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 7:01:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2007 7:01:32 GMT -5
quote - "There are aspects of the Christ and God with which the friends and workers are not comfortable." True. No-one wants to suffer. Recall those who objected to the labourers who had not borne the "heat of the day."quote - "Many of the friends appear to be much the same as those who go to other churches" True, and for such Paul himself wept.quote - "or no church except for the woman with dress and hair. Yet there are other women in other fellowships that appear the same as the women of the friends and workers." True. If it's only hair and dress it is a pointless gesture.quote - "Many of the friends listen to so-called worldly music and have TV's and go to movies in theaters or rent them and wear fashions that others outside their (your) church do." True, if my "some" is your "many." quote - "... what value is the price paid by God and Jesus? Do you think you could pay an equal amount?" God paid the highest price He could pay for us. We are required to do the same.quote - "Are you ostracized? You have friends not in your church/fellowship, so I must think you are not." Certainly some do. Some despise me for what I belong to, even in my own family.quote - "Do you know these people fully that they have told you "no one has ostracized me for my belief in Jesus"? Do you know all their family members and how they feel about their beliefs?" Some I know have been attacked for their church or their beliefs, but not usually for their lives.quote - "Just like the friends and workers." (re ... they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.) We are told - we are warned - we are given examples of - people who justify their lack of standard by the failings of others. Christ is the standard, established by his example.quote - "Look in the mirror." (re If they are content to stay as they are, then No.) No, we are not content with who we are, but we are content with where we belong
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 8:06:29 GMT -5
Post by judge not on Aug 4, 2007 8:06:29 GMT -5
Can I add something? I know quite a few religious people of Christian persuasion. Some are my friends. I find they select aspects of Jesus' life which they prefer: Jesus as the care-giver; Jesus the lover of children; Jesus the lover of sinners and so forth. Jesus is like a Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela type, just with higher credentials. There are aspects of Christ's life they are not comfortable with. Beyond some (very elementary) moral basics these people don't appear much different to those who don't go to church. These Christians are not seriously offended by (what should be) the outside world. They engage in the popular secular culture, ie television, fashions, fads, music, Hollywood actors etc. They don't appear to be paying a price for what they believe, beyond their dues in church. Certainly they don't face ostracism, rejection or offense, which the bible certainly stated must come to those who love Christ. And they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.) Are such people saved, from our viewpoint? If they are content to stay as they are, then No. Judge not, lest ye be judged yourselves.
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 18:06:58 GMT -5
Post by Sylvestra on Aug 4, 2007 18:06:58 GMT -5
Can I add something? I know quite a few religious people of Christian persuasion. Some are my friends. I find they select aspects of Jesus' life which they prefer: Jesus as the care-giver; Jesus the lover of children; Jesus the lover of sinners and so forth. Jesus is like a Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela type, just with higher credentials. There are aspects of Christ's life they are not comfortable with. Beyond some (very elementary) moral basics these people don't appear much different to those who don't go to church. These Christians are not seriously offended by (what should be) the outside world. They engage in the popular secular culture, ie television, fashions, fads, music, Hollywood actors etc. They don't appear to be paying a price for what they believe, beyond their dues in church. Certainly they don't face ostracism, rejection or offense, which the bible certainly stated must come to those who love Christ. And they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.) Are such people saved, from our viewpoint? If they are content to stay as they are, then No. You, dear bert, have made the point here, that I often say - the folks who follow the workers don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification - gift and reward! Of course, they are saved, but are not building upon their "foundation", and possibly will have nothing left of their "building" when it is tried in the fire! Read again 1 Cor. 3:10-15!! Best! Edy
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 18:20:19 GMT -5
Post by wondering on Aug 4, 2007 18:20:19 GMT -5
bert -- Just what and whose standard are you referring to. The one we are supposed to be following and dictated by the workers?
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 18:42:56 GMT -5
Post by AS one might say on Aug 4, 2007 18:42:56 GMT -5
Can I add something? I know quite a few religious people of Christian persuasion. Some are my friends. I find they select aspects of Jesus' life which they prefer: Jesus as the care-giver; Jesus the lover of children; Jesus the lover of sinners and so forth. Jesus is like a Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela type, just with higher credentials. There are aspects of Christ's life they are not comfortable with. Beyond some (very elementary) moral basics these people don't appear much different to those who don't go to church. These Christians are not seriously offended by (what should be) the outside world. They engage in the popular secular culture, ie television, fashions, fads, music, Hollywood actors etc. They don't appear to be paying a price for what they believe, beyond their dues in church. Certainly they don't face ostracism, rejection or offense, which the bible certainly stated must come to those who love Christ. And they seem content with what they have in their churches, and don't wish to rise above any of its standards (or lack thereof.) Are such people saved, from our viewpoint? If they are content to stay as they are, then No. You, dear bert, have made the point here, that I often say - the folks who follow the workers don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification - gift and reward! Of course, they are saved, but are not building upon their "foundation", and possibly will have nothing left of their "building" when it is tried in the fire! Read again 1 Cor. 3:10-15!! Best! Edy All the good works of life are lost.
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Coward is as coward does
Guest
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 20:13:15 GMT -5
Post by Coward is as coward does on Aug 4, 2007 20:13:15 GMT -5
GIT presumes to be important but holds many contradicting beliefs.
And why choose this one among so many?
They are just venting their garbage on the net. They don't want to be bothered.
Coward is as coward does
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 20:26:41 GMT -5
Post by _ on Aug 4, 2007 20:26:41 GMT -5
GIT presumes to be important but holds many contradicting beliefs. And why choose this one among so many? They are just venting their garbage on the net. They don't want to be bothered. Coward is as coward does I do not view GIT as a coward, and fail to understand how you could... in what way is he a coward?
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 21:02:10 GMT -5
Post by Not a coward on Aug 4, 2007 21:02:10 GMT -5
FMOFTHE2x2s
Where did they sat that GIT was a coward?
-not a coward
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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To GIT
Aug 4, 2007 21:03:38 GMT -5
Post by _ on Aug 4, 2007 21:03:38 GMT -5
FMOFTHE2x2s Where did they sat that GIT was a coward? -not a coward lol...
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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To GIT
Aug 5, 2007 4:02:50 GMT -5
Post by _ on Aug 5, 2007 4:02:50 GMT -5
In another thread you made the following statement - I repeat this for the umpteenth time: I can allow that "Salvation is possible outside of the Church, but not outside of Christ." Something being possible is far different then something being probable/presumed/ accepted/inferred/believed/understood... Common in the 2x2 church are those who hold an exclusive mindset saying salvation is possible outside the fellowship... but they are speaking of exceptions and special cases and not the norm... When pressed for an example, often tribesmen in jungles are talked about who have never come into contact with the 2x2 fellowship... rather then members of local fellowship churches down the street... So in light of this common response, I must request clarification of your statement... Do you believe salvation is just possible outside your fellowship, or do you acknowledge it is probable to the point of being the norm for those in the evangelical community who call themselves Christian?
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