Which yr did the 2x2s became Anti-Trinity believers? Part II

[nathan]

~~ The Church history of the Vaudois/Waldenses, Faith Mission, and 2x2s had similar TWO and TWO apostolic ministry and fellowship for 33-2022 A.D. (Part I)

professing.proboards.com/thread/25658/nathan-time-line-irvine-founder?page=1

Book of Revelation Explained

Revelation is first and foremost a revelation about Jesus Christ (1:1). The book depicts Him as the risen, glorified Son of God ministering among the churches (1:1). As "The faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth" (1:5); As "the Alpha and the Omega" (1:8); As the one "who is and who was and who is the come, the Almighty" (1:8);

bible-studys.org/Discoverrevelation.com/Book%20of%20Revelation%20Explained.html

The Deity of Christ

In addition to Jesus’ specific claims about Himself, His disciples also acknowledged the deity of Christ. They claimed that Jesus had the right to forgive sins—something only God can do—as it is God who is offended by sin (Acts 5:31; Colossians 3:13; Psalm 130:4; Jeremiah 31:34). In close connection with this last claim, Jesus is also said to be the one who will “judge the living and the dead” (2 Timothy 4:1). Thomas cried out to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). Paul calls Jesus “great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13) and points out that prior to His incarnation Jesus existed in the “form of God” (Philippians 2:5-8).

God the Father says regarding Jesus: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever” (Hebrews 1:8).

John states that “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God” (John 1:1). Examples of Scriptures that teach the deity of Christ are many (see Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 22:13; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Peter 2:6-8; Psalm 18:2, 95:1; 1 Peter 5:4; Hebrews 13:20), but even one of these is enough to show that Christ was considered to be God by His followers.

Jesus is also given titles that are unique to YHWH (the formal name of God) in the Old Testament. The Old Testament title “redeemer” (Psalm 130:7; Hosea 13:14) is used of Jesus in the New Testament (Titus 2:13; Revelation 5:9). Jesus is called Immanuel—“God with us”—in Matthew 1. In Zechariah 12:10, it is YHWH who says, “They will look on me, the one they have pierced.”

But the New Testament applies this to Jesus’ crucifixion (John 19:37; Revelation 1:7). If it is YHWH who is pierced and looked upon, and Jesus was the one pierced and looked upon, then Jesus is YHWH. Paul interprets Isaiah 45:22-23 as applying to Jesus in Philippians 2:10-11.

Further, Jesus’ name is used alongside God’s in prayer “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2). This would be blasphemy if Christ were not deity. The name of Jesus appears with God’s in Jesus’ commanded to baptize “in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19; see also 2 Corinthians 13:14).

Actions that can be accomplished only by God are credited to Jesus. Jesus not only raised the dead (John 5:21, 11:38-44) and forgave sins (Acts 5:31, 13:38), He created and sustains the universe (John 1:2; Colossians 1:16-17). This becomes even clearer when one considers YHWH said He was alone during creation (Isaiah 44:24). Further, Christ possesses attributes that only deity can have: eternality (John 8:58), omnipresence (Matthew 18:20, 28:20), omniscience (Matthew 16:21), and omnipotence (John 11:38-44).

Now, it is one thing to claim to be God or to fool someone into believing it is true, and something else entirely to prove it to be so. Christ offered many miracles as proof of His claim to deity. Just a few of Jesus’ miracles include turning water to wine (John 2:7), walking on water (Matthew 14:25), multiplying physical objects (John 6:11), healing the blind (John 9:7), the lame (Mark 2:3), and the sick (Matthew 9:35; Mark 1:40-42), and even raising people from the dead (John 11:43-44; Luke 7:11-15; Mark 5:35). Moreover, Christ Himself rose from the dead. Far from the so-called dying and rising gods of pagan mythology, nothing like the resurrection is seriously claimed by other religions, and no other claim has as much extra-scriptural confirmation.

In conclusion, Christ claimed He was YHWH, that He was deity (not just “a god” but the one true God); His followers (Jews who would have been terrified of idolatry) believed Him and referred to Him as God. Christ proved His claims to deity through miracles, including the world-altering resurrection. No other hypothesis can explain these facts. Yes, the deity of Christ is biblical.

www.gotquestions.org/deity-of-Christ.html

2) What did Jesus mean when He said "I AM" that "I AM" God/Yahweh?

Jesus, in response to the Pharisees’ question “Who do you think you are?” said, “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, and you have seen Abraham!" I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds (John 8:56–59).

The violent response of the Jews to Jesus’ “I AM” statement indicates they clearly understood what He was declaring—that He was the eternal God incarnate. Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14.

If Jesus had merely wanted to say He existed before Abraham’s time, He would have said, “Before Abraham, I was.” The Greek words translated “was,” in the case of Abraham, and “am,” in the case of Jesus, are quite different. The words chosen by the Spirit make it clear that Abraham was “brought into being,” but Jesus existed eternally (see John 1:1).

There is no doubt that the Jews understood what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for making Himself equal with God (John 5:18). Such a statement, if not true, was blasphemy and the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic Law was death (Leviticus 24:11–14). But Jesus committed no blasphemy; He was and is God, the second Person of the Godhead, equal to the Father in every way.

Jesus said to the Jews, "I will tell you the truth.... Before Abraham was born, I am!" some misunderstanding this verse to mean that Jesus was just claiming preexistence before Abraham. The context, however, shows that Jesus was pointing not only to his preexistence before Abraham but also to His Eternally! After all, the term I am! points back to God's name in Exodus 3:14 a name that conveys the idea of Eternal self-existence. Yahweh (the I AM that I AM) never came into being at a point in time, for He has always existed. To know Yahweh is to know the Eternal one.

www.gotquestions.org/I-AM.html

In other words, Abraham's existence was created and finite, beginning at a point in time, but Christ's existence NEVER began, is uncreated and infinite, and is therefore ETERNAL. God the Father, Christ/the Son are distinct Persons within the unity of the ONE Godhead. (John 3:16,17; 7:29; 8:55; 10:15;11:41,42)

To make the point again in his conversation, “Before Abraham was “I Am” (Jn. 8:58). Jesus is saying “Yahweh is my name.” He is not saying that he existed from or before Abrahams time. Jesus has made a definitive statement that before Abraham came into existence or was born He (Jesus) was there I have existed before all ages, before anything was created. It speaks of an eternal existence without respect to time of which only God can exist. Psalm 90:2: "From everlasting to everlasting thou art God."

We can only come to the conclusion that the “I AM” statements of Jesus were intentional, communicating what they were familiar with from Old Testament teachings and practices to prove the deity of Jesus the Christ to those who could hear his spiritual speech.

I AM is his name forever (Heb. Hayah ashur hayah, Gr. ego eimei; Exod. 3:14-15 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.”

The ancient Hebrew language that the Old Testament was written in did not have vowels in its alphabet. In written form, ancient Hebrew was a consonant-only language. In the original Hebrew, God’s name transliterates to YHWH (sometimes written in the older style as YHVH). This is known as the tetragrammaton (meaning “four letters”). Because of the lack of vowels, Bible scholars debate how the tetragrammaton YHWH was pronounced.

The tetragrammaton consists of four Hebrew letters: yodh, he, waw, and then he repeated. Some versions of the Bible translate the tetragrammaton as “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”; most translate it as “LORD” (all capital letters).

Contrary to what some believe, Jehovah is not the Divine Name revealed to Israel. The name Jehovah is a product of mixing different words and different alphabets of different languages. Due to a fear of accidentally taking God’s name in vain (Leviticus 24:16), the Jews basically quit saying it out loud altogether. Instead, when reading Scripture aloud, the Jews substituted the tetragrammaton YHWH with the word Adonai (“Lord”).

Even in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament), the translators substituted Kurios (“Lord”) for the Divine Name. Eventually, the vowels from Adonai (“Lord”) or Elohim (“God”) found their way in between the consonants of YHWH, thus forming YaHWeH. But this interpolation of vowels does not mean that was how God’s name was originally pronounced. In fact, we aren’t entirely sure if YHWH should have two syllables or three.

Any number of vowel sounds can be inserted within YHWH, and Jewish scholars are as uncertain of the real pronunciation as Christian scholars are. Jehovah is actually a much later (probably 16th-century) variant. The word Jehovah comes from a three-syllable version of YHWH, YeHoWeH.

The Y was replaced with a J (although Hebrew does not even have a J sound) and the W with a V, plus the extra vowel in the middle, resulting in JeHoVaH. These vowels are the abbreviated forms of the imperfect tense, the participial form, and the perfect tense of the Hebrew being verb (English is)—thus the meaning of Jehovah could be understood as “He who will be, is, and has been.”

So, what is God’s Name, and what does it mean? The most likely choice for how the tetragrammaton was pronounced is “YAH-way,” “YAH-weh,” or something similar. The name Yahweh refers to God’s self-existence. Yahweh is linked to how God described Himself in Exodus 3:14, “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: “I AM has sent me to you.” God’s name is a reflection of His being. God is the only self-existent or self-sufficient Being. Only God has life in and of Himself. That is the essential meaning of the tetragrammaton, YHWH.

www.gotquestions.org/YHWH-tetragrammaton.html

~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God/Yahweh from the Dead Sea Scrolls caves

I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him.

I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times

I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind.

It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me.

I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.

Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you!

It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me.

Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me.

Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.”

Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen!

You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact.

© Dr. Frank E. Stranges

The Great "I AM" Two pages from the Dead Sea Scrolls 
© Julie Ann Stranges
www.nicufo.org/videos.htm

~~ Jesus Christ the I AM that I AM Almighty God.

Nathan: John the apostle wrote it so clearly in John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. He was in the World, and the World was MADE by Him, and the world knew him NOT. And the Word was made flesh and dwell among us. The Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. Who do you SAY the Word is? Jesus! Read Rev. 19:11-16 And I/John saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

 Jesus said in 95 A.D. Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Rev. 11:16-17 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and Worshiped God, saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.

Rev. 21:6,7 He/Christ that sat on the throne said unto me, "It is done, I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be MY Son."

Revelation chapter 4:8-11 “Holy, Holy, Holy
is the Lord God Almighty,
who was, and is, and is to come.”

Revelation chapter 5:9-13 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and has Redeemed us to God by thy BLOOD, out of every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne/God the Father and to the Lamb, be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

[nathan]

(Part 2)  Who Jesus Christ really is?

professing.proboards.com/thread/31494/who-jesus?page=1&scrollTo=1013690

Moses saw the Back part of God the Christ in Exodus 33.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmZ0P5O8duU&ab_channel=ChristianPreaching

Nathan writes: The preacher is correct. Christ God who later begotten as Jesus the God/Man 2000 years ago. Christ God/LORD is the ONLY God who took human form/body in the Old and New Testament who appeared and communicated with the mortal human beings from Genesis chapter 1 in the Garden of Eden to the book of Revelation in heaven.

No man has seen God the Father they ONLY heard His voice from heaven. The God that the Old Testament believers saw, and communicated with face to face was God the Christ in the Garden of Eden and Genesis chapters 17-19. In Exodus chapter 33 Moses saw the back side of Christ/God and NOT God the Father back side. God the Father doesn't leave His throne or home in heaven.

Christ/God the Son was the ONE who communicated and interacted with mortal beings on earth in the Old and New Testament time.

Yes, many have seen him/Christ God the Son in the Old Testament and New Testament. They did NOT SEE God the Father! at any time. No mortal human beings can see God the Father in His Holy Presence and live. Christ/God has allowed mortal beings to see His brightness and glory because He died for their sins and became their Savior.

Abraham saw God (Christ the Son!) several times.

And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there built he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. Genesis 12:7

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him.... Genesis 17:1 And the Lord appeared unto him [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre. Genesis 18:1 And I [God] appeared unto Abraham. Exodus 6:3 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran Acts 7:2

Isaac saw him twice.

And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac], and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Genesis 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac] the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not. Genesis 26:24 And I appeared unto ... Isaac. Exodus 6:3

Jacob saw God face to face and beat him in a wrestling match.

Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30

And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 35:9 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan. Genesis 48:3 And I appeared unto ... Jacob. Exodus 6:3

Moses spoke to God face to face and even got a peek at God's backsides!

The LORD God ... appeared unto me [Moses], saying, I have surely visited you. Exodus 3:16
That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee [Moses]. Exodus 4:5
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:11

My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold. Numbers 12:7-1

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. Deuteronomy 34:10 And I [God]will take away my hand, and thou [Moses] shalt see my back parts. Exodus 33:23

Jesus said in John 14:9 God (the Father) is invisible and cannot be seen. (And if you do see him, you'll die.) There shall no man see me, and live. Exodus 33:20 No man hath seen God (the Father) at any time. John 1:18, 1 John 4:12 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37 Not that any man hath seen (the Father). John 6:46 ...the invisible God ... Colossians 1:15

skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/seen.html

Someone wrote: The Son of God in the Old Testament

Any time the Old Testament Scriptures state that someone saw God, they saw the pre-incarnate Christ, Jesus himself, before he was born and lived as a human being through the virgin birth. John 1:18 states that "no man hath seen God (the Trinity) at any time' the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (revealed) him."

Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament are theologically called "Christophanies". Christ the Lord God walked, talked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.

The word "God" in the book of Genesis speaks of "Elohim/plural- Father, Christ and Holy Spirit" or the Trinity, but "the LORD, and "the LORD God", who spoke personally to Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham and many of the Old Testament prophets, is the personal and visible manifestation of God, which is Christ Jesus. The personal name of God in the Old Testament is "Yahweh", translated "LORD" (All Capitol letters) In the KJV, 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "The Lord" from heaven,

(Note:) the title "Lord" in this verse has the Greek article "the" Meaning that "The LORD", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left His home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are one and the same!

Jesus appeared personally, face to face with Moses and the Old Testament prophets of God. Ex. 33:11 where "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." Exodus 24:9-11 Moses and seventy elders of Israel "saw the God of Israel" Jesus is the visible manifestation of "The God of Israel" God, in the person of Jesus, and two angels walked up to Abraham's tent and had dinner with him before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis ch. 18 and 19.

Christ/Jesus in the "Ancient of Days", in Daniel 7: 9-14 (Notice the description is basically the same as the glorified Christ in Rev. 1:12-18. Jesus was in the cloud that followed the children of Israel through the Red Sea. 1 Cor. 10:4 - Ex. 14:14, 19 & 25.

The "angel of God" literally means "the appearance of God" (Notice Jesus looked out of the cloud and shot the wheels off of Pharoah's chariots while they were in the dry bottom of the Red Sea!) The Scriptures clearly teach that "Jesus", of the New Testament, and "Yahweh", translated "LORD", of the Old Testament, are the same person - the Second Person of the Trinity, the "revealed", or "manifest" Person of Almighty God.

1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "The Lord" from heaven, (Note: the name "Jesus" has the Greek article "the"). 1 Cor. 15:47 is stating that the "Lord", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left his home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth.

Jesus of the New Testament, and "Yahweh/God Christ" of the Old Testament are one and the same BEING/Spirit.

Yahweh is The Creator: Isa.40:28 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Creator: John 1:3 (Jesus)

Yahweh is the First and Last: Isa. 41:4 44:6 (Yahweh)
Jesus is the First and Last: Rev. 1:17 2:8 & 22:13 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Lord of Lords: Deut. 10:17 (Yahweh)
Jesus is the Lord of Lords: 1 Tim. 6:15 (Jesus)

Yahweh is the Savior: Isa 45:21 43:11 (Yahweh)
Jesus is the Savior. John 4:42 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Light: Psa. 27:1, Isa. 60: 19-20 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Light. John 1:1-9 & 8:12 (Jesus)


Yahweh is The Shepherd: Ps. 23:1 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Shepherd: John 10:11 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Glory of God: Isa. 42:8 48:11 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Glory of God: John 17:1, 5 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Redeemer: Isa. 41:14, Jer. 50:34, (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Redeemer: Rev. 5:9 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Rock: Ps. 18:2 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4 (Jesus)

Yahweh is the Creator of angels: Psa. 148:5 (Yahweh)
Jesus is the Creator of Angels: Col. 1:16 (Jesus)


Yahweh is The I AM: Ex. 3:14 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The I AM: John 8:58 18:5,6 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Bridegroom: Isa. 62:5 Hosea 2:16 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Bridegroom: Rev. 21: 2, Matt. 25:11 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Judge: Joel 3:12 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Judge: John 5:27 Matt. 25:31-46 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Forgiver of sins: Jere. 31:34 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Forgiver of sins: Mark 2:7, 10 (Jesus)

Yahweh is The Holy One: Isa. 43:3 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Holy One: Acts 3:14 (Jesus)

Both Raised the dead: 1 Sam2:6 (Yahweh) John 5:21 (Jesus)

Both were Worshiped by angels: Ps. 148:2 (Yahweh) Heb. 1:6 (Jesus)

Both are confessed as LORD - Every knee is going to bow and every tongue confess Isa. 45:21-23 (Yahweh); Phil2:9-11 (Jesus)


100 verses If You've Seen Me/Christ You've Seen The Father

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 1:18  No one has ever seen God/the Father; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he/Christ has made him known.

John 1:14  And the Word/Christ became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Colossians 1:15  He/Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

John 14:7  If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

www.openbible.info/topics/if_youve_seen_me_youve_seen_the_father

1) Amir Tsarfati: A Christian Jew pastor. He is an amazing teacher! He will increase your understanding of the Godhead, Christ, and Holy Spirit and many of Bible events, history and so on.

Jesus Christ name is Immanuel Matthew 1:23. Immanuel means God with us and El is God. Very good sermon.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2e2m-iedF8&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=16&t=0s

2) Amir Tsarfati: The Passover Lamb/Christ God in the Old Testament
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbkJKQFovg&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=20&t=0s

3) Amir Tsarfati: Jesus and the Christ in New Testament Passover Lamb of God
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDUzjrU5iM&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=21&t=0s

4) Israeli Jew makes the most amazing discovery ( Jesus is the Messiah/God the Christ)!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=95XaL6_stBs

5) Awesome Bible Lands Jerusalem where Jesus born and lived Unveiled
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c4F-iJQQU2qSHu81zNZyu1L

6) Israel Unveiled
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk

Many Amazing of 19 Videos of Jordan river, the Red Sea, Sea of Galilee
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QZjQcwClc&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c6uVeLm-IMQ91D0DwS7rrqk

Questions and Answers by Amir Tsarfati
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM8xETmA7vg&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c4-mIMLxLCK81G1mCmnmrBw

Amir Tsarfati: The Book of Life
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnuNJ3m2UHY&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=17&t=0s

Amir Tsarfati: The Fullness of the Gentiles
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHdm2bOfaR8&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=8&t=0s

Amir Tsarfati: Has God Cast Away His People?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPe3b7PaxfE

Amir Tsarfati: The Book of Revelation
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3GuG1dYARM

The Rise of The One World Religion
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6FWHjH5fHA

Amir Tsarfati: The Great Collusion
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzU0RqkiOs

Amir Tsarfati: How Close are we to the Mark of the Beast
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-6ZvMgi_M

Amir Tsarfati: The Illuminati= Luciferians/Satanists and the One World Government. Their agenda is to reduce the world population from 7 Billions people down to 500 millions people through wars, pollution, cancers, deadly viruses, and so on listen at 46 min. at the below video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tft9T32BNgc

Amir Tsarfati: The Satanic Plot to Reduce Earth's Population
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPcgKaJ_E4

Amir T. tried to WARN the WORLD on the seriousness and deadliest about to spread to the whole world from Corona Virus back in Feb.11/2019... But they told him it was FAKE news! We wish the world had taken his information on the Corona Virus seriously back in Feb! It could have saved hundreds thousands of lives from suffering horrible pains and suffering around the world.

This Virus could have come from U.S... listen... Amir has proven to be right on target... millions people are going to die listen at 37 min. of the below video. Many deadly flu Viruses will kill millions for years to come.

Amir Tsarfati: A Few Good Things the Coronavirus has Caused. Very comfort video... Put your faith in God and NOT in this world wealth and riches.
65,950 views• Apr 5, 2020

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-TFwJsQaOQ

[nathan]

(Part 3) What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.

The Bible also teaches that there is only one Godhead. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one Godhead existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one Godhead (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used.

In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12).

God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one Godhead. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

[nathan]

(Part 4) What is Trinitarianism?

Trinitarianism is the teaching that God is triune, that He has revealed Himself to be three co-equal and co-eternal Persons.  The purpose of this article is to discuss the importance of Trinitarianism in regard to salvation and the Christian life.

We are often asked the question, “Do I have to believe in the Trinity to be saved?” The answer is yes and no.

Does a person have to fully understand and agree with every aspect of Trinitarianism to be saved? No. Are there some aspects of Trinitarianism that play key roles in salvation? Yes.

For example, the deity of Christ is crucially important to the doctrine of salvation. If Jesus is not perfect, His death could not have paid the penalty of sin. If Jesus is not holy, He could not be the Savior, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). An unbiblical view of Jesus’ divine nature results in an errant view of salvation. Every “Christian” cult that denies the true deity of Christ also teaches that we must add our own works to Christ’s death in order to be saved. The true and full deity of Christ, an aspect of Trinitarianism, refutes this concept.

At the same time, we recognize that there are some genuine believers in Christ who do not hold to full Trinitarianism. While we reject modalism, we do not deny that a person can be saved while holding that God is not three Persons, but rather simply revealed Himself in three “modes.” The Trinity is a mystery, which no finite human being can fully, or perfectly, understand.

For salvation to be received, God requires us to trust in Jesus Christ, God incarnate, as the Savior. For salvation to be received, God does not require complete adherence to every precept of sound biblical theology. No, full understanding and agreement with all aspects of Trinitarianism is not required for salvation.

We strongly hold that Trinitarianism is a biblically-based doctrine. We dogmatically proclaim that understanding and believing in biblical Trinitarianism is crucially important to understanding God, salvation, and the ongoing work of God in the lives of believers. At the same time, there have been godly men, genuine followers of Christ, who have had some disagreements with aspects of Trinitarianism. It is important to remember that we are not saved by having perfect doctrine. We are saved by trusting in our perfect Savior (John 3:16).

Do we have to believe in some aspects of Trinitarianism to be saved? Yes. Do we have to fully agree with all areas of Trinitarianism to be saved? No.

www.gotquestions.org/trinitarianism.html

2) What is non-trinitarianism?

Non-trinitarianism is a theological view of God that rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. Any group that denies that God exists in three eternal, co-equal Persons sharing one nature in perfect unity is nontrinitarian. Within Christianity, broadly defined, are nontrinitarian groups that believe that God the Father is God but that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not fully equal to Him.

There are several false ideas related to non-trinitarianism. There is adoptionism, which says that Jesus was “adopted” as the Son of God at some point during His earthly life—at His baptism, resurrection, or ascension, for example. There is also modalism, which asserts that God is an indivisible being who manifests Himself as one of three Persons at various times. Also, there is subordinationism, which says the Son and Holy Spirit are subordinate to the Father in nature and being. Nontrinitarian groups claiming the name of Christ include the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Swedenborgians, Christadelphians, members of the United Church of God, and Oneness Pentecostals.

Non-trinitarianism is problematic because it is unbiblical and, at least in some forms, it makes Jesus Christ less than God. The deity of Christ is clearly supported by Scripture. Jesus said to the religious Jews, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). The Jews rightly took this to mean that Jesus was claiming equality with the Father. They replied, “You, a mere man, claim to be God!” (John 10:33). Then they tried to stone Him, which was the proper response to blasphemy, according to the law (Leviticus 24:16).

A nontrinitarian who believes that Jesus is not equal to the Father will have trouble explaining why the Jews were unjustified in their response. If you are not equal to God, it would be blasphemy to say you were. As God said, through the prophet Isaiah, He is the only God, and there is none like Him:

“I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me” (Isaiah 46:9).

In fact, if Jesus were not fully God, His statement to the Jews would have put Him on par with Lucifer, who in rebellion attempted to ascend to God’s throne (Isaiah 14:14).

The Holy Spirit is also God and yet distinct from the other Persons of the Godhead, according to the Bible. We see this in the story of Ananias and Sapphira, who “lied to God” (Acts 5:4). Peter also said that Ananias “lied to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 5:3). This was the same lie, from the lips of one man to one God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is thus equated with lying to the Father. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit has distinct emotions, a distinct will, and a special purpose (Ephesians 4:30, 1 Corinthians 12:4–7; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 14:25–26; 15:26–27; 16:7–15).

Why do nontrinitarian doctrines exist? What is the motivation to reject the Trinity? Part of the answer may be that the idea of the Trinity is so hard to grasp. How can the One God be also three distinct Persons? It makes no sense to our finite minds. But that is not a reason to discount it.

There are many difficult doctrines that Christians struggle with, and many things in the Bible that seem impossible or are hard to understand. If we could fully understand everything God is and does, we would have a comfortable feeling of control. But, if anything, God’s mysterious and profound nature is an argument for the Bible being true. If there is a God who has the power to create us and the world around us, wouldn’t it make sense for Him to be beyond our understanding (see Isaiah 55:8)?

The clear and consistent teaching of the New Testament is that Godhead exists in three Persons. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are two passages in which the doctrine of the Trinity is found. Jesus taught much about all three Persons of the Trinity in John chapters 14—17. And in His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus speaks of the work of the Spirit who regenerates (John 3:8), the Son who was crucified (John 3:14–15), and the Father who sent the Son (John 3:16–17).

There is no doubt that the Trinity is difficult for human minds to grasp. We are not tri-personal beings; we are each one person. But God is unlike us. In His Word, He has revealed that He is of one nature and essence while at the same time eternally existing in three Persons. The Nicene Creed (AD 325) affirms that “we believe in one God the Father Almighty, . . . and in one Lord Jesus Christ, . . . and we believe in the Holy Spirit.”

The fourth-century Athanasian Creed did an admirable job in attempting to convey the truth of the triune nature of God, saying in part,

“We worship one Godhead in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being. For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, co-eternal in majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit. Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit. The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.

Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty. Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God. Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord. . . .

“And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, co-eternal and co-equal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.”

Non-trinitarianism rejects these creeds and biblical teaching about the Trinity. Trinitarians affirm Jesus’ words in Matthew 28:19 concerning baptism “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” and they sing with conviction the words of the Doxology, “Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.”

www.gotquestions.org/nontrinitarianism.html

[nathan]

(Part 5) What is the Godhead?

The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean.

In Acts 17, Paul is speaking on Mars Hill to the philosophers of Athens. As he argues against idolatry, Paul says, “Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device” (Acts 17:29, KJV). Here, the word Godhead is the translation of the Greek theion, a word used by the Greeks to denote “God” in general, with no reference to a particular deity. Paul, speaking to Greeks, used the term in reference to the only true God.

In Romans 1, Paul begins to make the case that all humanity stands guilty before God. In verse 20 he says, “The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (KJV). Here, Godhead is theiotés. Paul’s argument is that all of creation virtually shouts the existence of God; we can “clearly” see God’s eternal power, as well as His “Godhead” in what He has made. “The heavens declare the glory of God;  the skies proclaim the work of his hands” (Psalm 19:1). The natural world makes manifest the divine nature of God.

Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés. According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].”

Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3).

www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.html

2)What is Christology?

The word "Christology" comes from two Greek words meaning "Christ / Messiah" and "word" - which combine to mean "the study of Christ." Christology is the study of the Person and work of Jesus Christ. There are numerous important questions that Christology answers:

Who is Jesus Christ? Almost every major religion teaches that Jesus was a prophet, or a good teacher, or a godly man. The problem is, the Bible tells us that Jesus was infinitely more than a prophet, a good teacher, or a godly man.

Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God? Although Jesus never uttered the words “I am God,” He made many other statements that can’t be properly interpreted to mean anything else.

What is the hypostatic union? How can Jesus be both God and man at the same time? The Bible teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever.

Why is the virgin birth so important? The virgin birth is a crucial biblical doctrine because it accounts for the circumvention of the transmission of the sin nature and allowed the eternal God to become a perfect man.

What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of how we think of a father/son relationship. God did not get married and have a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1,14).

A Biblical understanding of Jesus Christ is crucial to our salvation. Many cults and world religions claim to believe in Jesus Christ. The problem is that they do not believe in the Jesus Christ presented in the Bible. That is why Christology is so important. It helps us to understand the significance of the deity of Christ. It demonstrates why Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

Christology teaches us that Jesus had to be man so that He could die - and had to be God so that His death would pay for our sins. It is perhaps the most important area of theology. Without a proper understanding of who Jesus Christ is and what He accomplished, all other areas of theology will be errant as well.

An in-depth study of Christology has incredible personal impact on the believer’s daily life. As we delve into the heart of Jesus, we begin to grasp the amazing concept that He, being fully Man and fully God, loves each of us with a never-ending love the extent of which is hard for us to imagine.

The various titles and names of Christ in the Scriptures give insight into who He is and how He relates to us. He is our Good Shepherd, leading, protecting and caring for us as one of His own (John 10:11,14); He is the Light of the world, illuminating our pathway through a sometimes dark and uncertain world (John 8:12); He is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), bringing tranquility into our tumultuous lives; and He is our Rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), the immovable and secure base who we can trust to keep us safe and secure in Him.

www.gotquestions.org/Christology.html

[mrdobalina]

Go away idiot, you were not missed and the place is far better without you.

[nathan]

(Part 6) Most of the Current 2x2 workers and the friends are Anti-Triniarian/Trinity and Jesus is NOT God believers. However, the early days 2x2workers and the friends were Triune God; the Trinity; and Jesus is God believers.

In order to conduct official business, the Two by Twos register names including “Christian Conventions” (U.S.), “Assemblies of Christians” (Canada), “The Testimony of Jesus” (U.K.), and “United Christian Conventions” (Australia). However, most members do not associate a formal name with the church, referring to it as “The Truth,” “The Way,” “The Jesus Way,” or “The Lowly Way.” They meet weekly in homes and do not have any church buildings. Since there are no official records for this secretive group, membership numbers can only be estimated. Depending on the source, worldwide membership in the Two by Twos ranges from 80,000 to around 400,000.

The Two by Twos do not publish doctrinal statements or any literature except a hymn book. They use only the King James Bible in their services. Here are some of their core teachings:

The Two by Twos are anti-Trinitarian. The Holy Spirit is perceived as an attitude or force from God. Jesus is a fully human figure who came to earth to establish a way of ministry and salvation, but He is not God Himself. The Two by Twos believe that Jesus overcame His own flesh. Great stress is laid upon following the example of Jesus but less emphasis on Jesus as Savior—Jesus’ life is more important than His death. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Godhead (John 16:8) and that Jesus is not just a good example but is the One in whom “all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

www.gotquestions.org/Two-by-Twos-Cooneyites.html

~~ Nathan: The early days 2x2 workers and the friends from 1989-1960s were Triune God and Trinity; Jesus is God believers! but the Overseers and senior workers in 1960s changed from Trinity/Triune God believers to Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God believers because they believe the RCC started the Triune God/Trinity in the 4th century so it had to be false doctrines.

Therefore, the overseers in the Westcoast of USA began to excommunicate the workers from the ministry and the friends who preached, taught and believe in the Trinity and Jesus is God in 1970-1990s in Montana, and Alaska, USA.

~~ John Long an ex-2x2 worker/preacher from 1898-1907 wrote in his Journal in 1899:

William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.

He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live.

2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit."

3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975 You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them.

4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958

God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.”

5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005

"One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. "

6) Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?

"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament.

These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living."

~~ Nathan writes: ~~ NathanB: These are the names of the Old days workers and current workers belief on Jesus is God/Lord, the I AM that I AM.

Leo Stancliff: Jesus is the Lord Yahweh.
Carson Cowan: related he heard George Walker teach the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was like a shamrock, Three in one.

John Wegter: Jesus is the Lord.
Everett Swanson: Jesus is the I AM that I AM.
Mark Huddle: Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. (Walla Walla, convention 1984)

~~ Greg L. (ex-worker 1990s) wrote: I cannot recall anyone preaching on God the Son. The closest I heard was one who said Jesus is to God as a bottle of ocean water is to the ocean. As I have stated before, I think if George Walker believed in God the Son he kept it out of his preaching and perhaps rarely shared such with any. As big an impact as he had, if he preached it, others would be preaching the same. The Triune God might be foundational for Christian churches, but it is not for the current Friends & Workers fellowship.

~~ Dennis Jacobsen. (ex-worker in 1960s) wrote: Hello Greg. According to Carson Cowan speaking at a convention decades ago, George walker DID teach his companions that God was like a shamrock, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost one, yet all God. According to reports I have heard he did teach this in sermons. And no, I had no reason upon hearing it to document it for it is specifically what Jack Carroll and many others taught and believed. Somewhere in my records once was a copy of Jack's sermon notes, where proof was found of his preaching God to exist as Father Son and Holy Ghost.

In every mission from my first, I would point to Jesus as the Word and He existed from the moment GOD first "spoke" later becoming the word made flesh. NEVER ONCE was I corrected for teaching that. NOT ONCE. Also I taught over simplifying there is the Divine Kingdom, Angelic/spirit/demon kingdom, human kingdom, that God Son became human Son of God. Never corrected for that neither though having "Gospel meetings" with about 14 assigned companions, in various states and a couple of countries.

Nathan, sir. On this topic, from what you have expressed, I find myself totally in agreement from nearly 72 years (+ circa 40 due to heritage). Greg, sir. More than "likely so." It came as a shock to me to discover 2&2 preachers and their followers anywhere did not believe as I had been taught, and indeed was one of the things I had to re-examine upon my excommunication. My early contacts and instructors in 2&2 ism simply did believe as Nathan expresses, and many of their names were on the first group of worker listing.

Do I accept others came along, not believing it? Most absolutely. Do I believe it unfair to state Nathan to be in error regarding it? Equally most absolutely. On this understanding of the nature and personality of God, a supreme being (to me anyway) I once had a copy of Jack Carroll's sermon notes, revealing to me he believed on this subject as Nathan expresses. I knew Tom Lyness believed this, I knew Willie Wier believed this, I knew Mable Gibson believed and taught it.


1) Dec 14, 2019 Gill said: If I understand correctly, the first workers to leave Ireland/England/Scotland etc. were mostly trinitarian. When did this change? Was there a desire to be different from the world and they saw this anti-trinitarian stance as a way to be different? Did Eldon Tenniswood move the west coast towards a more anti-trinitarian position?

2) RossB wrote: It's clear from the early hymns (in their Go Preachers' Hymnbook) that the early workers believed in a triune God. If you track this through to 1951 (Hymns Old and New update) they clearly still believed in a triune God.

This seemed to change with Eldon Tenniswood and co between the 1951 and 1987 hymnbook when clearly different doctrine (and in my view false doctrine) set in amongst the senior workers. In this period, the power base for the 2x2's shifted from England to the US - hence the latest and current hymnbook was produced in CA.

The tombstone of Sam Jones, the most prolific hymnwriter in the 2x2's refers to the line in one of his hymns "....the God who died for me". Clearly, a belief that the Son was God.

Edward Cooney was clearly not anti-trinitarian. He would have hardly agreed to the inclusion of the following verse of the hymn (#71) "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed..." in the Go-Preachers hymnbook if he didn't believe in a triune God.

O praise the Father; praise the Son:
Blest Spirit, praise to Thee:
All praise to God, the three in One,
The One in Thee.

Likewise, the hymn "When I survey the wondrous cross..." refers to Christ my God - in the Go Preachers hymnbook (and the 1951 O&N but subsequently changed in 1987).

Furthermore, in 1952, just eight years before he died, Edward Cooney wrote "now will conclude by greeting all who desire to be children of God in the conceit of our hearts saying: "I am of Christ," for Jesus never said "I am of Christ," but claimed to be the Son of God. He always claimed that God was his Father; and that although he was the mighty God, his Father was mightier and greater than he." (my emphasis added in bold). Source: Patricia Roberts' book Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960

Edward Cooney is clearly not going to write very specific words about Jesus being mighty God, if he did not believe it. Based on his writings, he was very clear in what he believed. A strong theme through his writings is that redemption/atonement for our sins is only available through Christ's blood that was shed on Calvary and eternal life through His resurrection.


1) Moline wrote: Hi Nathan, We as earthly beings find this difficult to comprehend however the bible makes it clear. I have never have heard a worker handle the Deity of Christ well, yet in the early days of the movement, Eddie Cooney and William Irvine clearly believed in a Triune God. It seems that over the years, one would assume, because of a LACK of sound doctrinal teaching, many basics of the scripture are NOT well understood by the Current 2x2s leaderships and the friends.

2) NathanB wrote: I believe Moline is correct! the workers in 1950s and onwards because their LACK of understanding on the SOUND doctrine of the TRINITY and they lead the friends off  tracks with their Anti-Trinity doctrine, and began to excommunicate workers in 1970s in Montana and 1990s in Alaska that preached and believed in the Trinity belief. 

The current 2x2s are caught in predicament situation! MOST of them are Anti-TRINITY believers but they STILL LOVE and appreciate their TRINITY Sunday morning WORSHIP meetings around the WORLD. This has proven to me the current workers and the friends WENT off the tracks in 1960s because of THEIR LACK of UNDERSTANDING on the TRUE teaching of the TRINITY Godhead. They don't FULLY KNOW WHO CHRIST is or Jesus really is. The early 2x2 workers believed/taught the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God NOT the Father but the Son. 

1/2018 Gill said: Was there an effort to remove trinitarian hymns from the book? And possibly a chance to add more hymns. There were some trinity hymns from the 1951 book that were removed in 1987. Cease not to praise Him, the Father and Son. And Holy Spirit and THESE THREE ARE ONE...remember that hymn??

Nathan: Yes, After the hymn book was published in 1987, the overseers had excommunicated Truitt O. in Alaska 1990 and before that 1970 in Montana from the work. Truitt, his brother, Walter and John Starkweather the overseer in Montana for preaching Jesus is God.

Corrections of references to Jesus being God:

"When I Survey the Wondrous Cross" by Isaac Watts
"Forbid it Lord, that I should boast,

Was No. 15 - "Save in the CROSS of Christ MY LORD"
Now No. 6 - "Save in the DEATH of Christ MY GOD."

(Gal. 6:14: "But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus."
NOTE: The Go-Preacher, 1928 and 1935 editions contained "Christ my God." It was changed in the 1951 and 1987 editions to "Christ my Lord."

Deletions of reference to the Trinity:

Removed No. 239, a beautiful, favorite hymn titled "Cease Not" by worker James Fawcett.
"Our Blest Redeemer"

NOW No. 208 "Our Blest Redeemer"
Original and earlier edition of HO&N has an extra verse (#6), which is omitted in the 1987 edition:

"O Praise the Father, Praise the Son,
Blest Spirit, praise to Thee;
All praise to God, the Three in One,
The one in Three."

[Redemption Songs contains this hymn as No. 539]

Removed Hymn No. 259 of 1935 edition which started out with:

"Hearken to the earnest pleadings of the Holy Trinity
"Who will go for us" with tidings of sweet rest and liberty?"

NOTE: There is still one hymn in HO&N that alludes that Jesus "God."

www.tellingthetruth.info/hymns/hymn1987.php#changes


RossB wrote: 8/20/2020

I don't know of any New Testament writer who didn't believe that Jesus was a man - clearly, he was a man - not just any regular man, but the Son of Man. However, if a person reads ALL of the gospel of Matthew, they'll see clearly that Jesus is Lord and the Son of the Living God and is worshipped as Lord. The demons clearly knew who He was.

But all of this is not an issue of any significance in the 2x2 church. Workers and friends the world over have zero doubt about both the pre-existence of Christ (as the eternal Son) and the divinity/divine nature of Christ when on earth. Since the late 1960's and emanating from the west coast of the US/Canada, most of them have baulked at, or rejected, Jesus being God - the Son, but they have never denied His pre-existence or divinity/divine nature.

Some senior workers are trying to straighten things out. The current Overseer of Colorado, Titus Lehmann, made quite an impact at the 2016 Mudgee Convention in New South Wales, Australia when he said "It is hard to understand how Jesus is God but is also the Son of God.

In Paul’s letter to the Colossians it states in Chapter 2:2 (KJV) ‘That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ’. This is a mystery that we can’t fully understand or explain. In Isaiah 9:6 we are told more about Jesus; ‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace’.

Of course, a couple of workers in New South Wales had tied themselves in knots by denying the divinity/divine nature of our Lord so Titus' intervention was timely and I know from talking to a few elders about it, made quite an impact. But as I said, the pre-existence of Christ or His divine nature have never been rejected at all by the workers or friends so their beliefs are radically different to what you ( fixit, 2x2 elder) believe and promote on TMB.

"Christ is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs" Hebrews 1:3-4.

I think God the Son is a useful expression for clarifying understanding.... most workers and friends will not accept that Jesus is God or God the Son. I have spoken to many New South Wales workers who absolutely deny that Jesus is God or God the Son or part of the Godhead....although many would say he is divine? One senior worker I asked said "of course, he believed in the Trinity" so I then asked "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God but also God the Son". He said "we definitely don't believe the latter..." and the conversation moved on.

Having said that I believe that a few workers believe in the Trinity and the Godhead of Jesus. I have only heard the word Trinity mentioned once at Convention by a Canadian worker (Maurice or Morris???) in the 1990's at Silverdale Convention, Sydney. A US worker apparently spoke at a Sydney convention two years ago about the Holy Spirit being the third person of the Godhead and David Saunders apparently referred to Jesus as the great "I am" at this year's Sydney Convention. Generally, it is ridiculed as a Catholic doctrine... whereas in reality it is a core Christian doctrine.

[nathan]

(Part 7) Excommunication of 2x2 workers from the ministry who preached and taught the Trinity; Jesus is God in 1970-1990s.

~~ Nathan: Dan Hilton was a senior worker in Washington State and California, USA. He was on Calf. and Washington State staff for many years... This is what Dan Hilton preached/taught for many years when I was in living in Washington State. The workers on the staff just passed on what they heard from the Senior workers had taught them through the years without doing a serious study for themselves...

The word Trinity was NOT in the Bible, but the concept of the Trinity-Triune God is mentioned from Genesis to Revelation. It was the 2nd generation of the apostles who coined or came up with the word Trinity and Triune God to describe the Godhead.

Dan Hilton:
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century.

[Washington 1985]

Dan Hilton
Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity.

[Manhattan MT Conv 1996]

Who is Jesus Christ??? -- According to Willis Propp! the ex-overseer in Alberta, Canada!!
April 12, 1992

Question from Dale - OK, may I ask you this question tonight? Now, that is one of the basic fundamentals that you believe that we have to understand, because there are other Jesus' and if we believe that “Jesus was God” that would be incorrect?

The reply from Willis Propp, (“Head Worker” of the Province of Alberta, Canada) in his own words.

Reply from Willis - The Catholics think they're one person, like the rosary prayer is holy Mary mother of God, holy Mary mother of God, and that is wrong because Jesus is not God. Jesus was the Son of God. John 8 says, I proceeded forth and came from God, I proceeded forth from God so He was the only begotten Son of the Father. He wasn't God, He was the Son of God.

Reply from Willis - Yes, if you look at the original of John 1:1 it says he was a god. He was divine. You cannot reconcile a father and a son as one person, you can’t do that.

- - -COMMENT- - -

Comment: Son of God – son of man

Mr. Propp states “He (Jesus) wasn't God, He was the Son of God.”

So, let us reason together: If a man has a son, is that son any less human than his father? NO! If the Father (who is God) has a Son, is that Son any less God than His Father? NO!

Another Comment: God plus a god?
Mr. Propp states, “…if you look at the original of John 1:1, it says he was a god.”

~~ Nathan: Reading Willis P. answers who is Jesus Christ? He didn't have a complete picture of Who Jesus is. The word God/Elohim is plural (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). The word God/Elohim refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The RCC does NOT teach the Father and the Son are ONE person, that is Oneness Pentecostal church belief. The Father God/El is Singular. Christ is God/EL also. Both speaking together = the Word God/Elohim becomes Plural.

Willis P. did NOT know or understand what the doctrine of the Trinity is. Jesus was NOT a (small g) god. He was God like His Father.


Detailed Account of Truitt's beliefs are on TTT: Montana Division 1989-1990

First few paragraphs: This Account concerns three brother Workers born and raised in the State of Montana:

1. John R. Starkweather, born in 1924, son of John, Katie Starkweather, entered the work in Montana in 1954, age 30.

2. Truitt E. Oyler, born in 1946, son of Enos and Bette Oyler, entered in the work in Montana around 1966, about age twenty one (21 yrs). His first companion was John Starkweather.

3. Walter J. Oyler, Truitt’s oldest brother, was born in 1940, entered the work in Montana in 1961, when he was about twenty (20) years old.

All three men had entered the work in their native state and were preaching in Montana under the Overseer Tom Lyness. Tom was an Irishman who professed in Ireland in 1902, entered the work in 1903, and came to Canada in 1905. In 1915, Tom was the first Worker who began preaching in Montana where he stayed until his death in 1970, age 87 years. Tom and his sister Annie are buried in Manhattan, Montana and share the same tombstone. (View Tombstone) Upon Tom's death in 1970, the field of Montana and Northern Wyoming were combined with Oregon/ Southern Idaho under the responsibility of Howard Mooney.

In 1967, when Truitt had been in the work about three years, he and his companion, John, were overheard discussing the scripture. They were unaware that sister Worker (possibly Blanche Curtis) was also in the house until she came into the room where they were. She was very upset and did not agree with their interpretation. From childhood on, these three men had sat in gospel missions held by early Workers, such as Tom Lyness, his sister Annie, Nellie Williams, Vernon Myers and others.

According to reliable sources, Truitt asserted they heard the doctrine the sister worker questioned preached by Tom Lyness and other early workers and that what the three men taught was no different; i.e. that Jesus was divine and could not sin.

On the other hand, the sister Worker believed Jesus was human just like she was. Many but not all Friends and Workers believe that Jesus could have sinned and lost his salvation, but was only able to live a sinless life by the power of the Holy Spirit and suffering, self denial and by cutting off sinful thoughts and lust in his mind.

This sister Worker became very determined that Truitt, Walter and John would be put out of the work and she eventually succeeded. They were accused of believing and teaching “false doctrine” also called “divisive doctrine.” Their alleged beliefs came to be commonly known as “Truitt’s Doctrine,” but few knew exactly what that doctrine really entailed. Truitt’s Doctrine was reported to have been some or all of the following: that Jesus was divine, that Jesus could not be tempted to sin, that Jesus was God, the doctrine of “Original Sin” related to the doctrine of “The Fall,” and perhaps more. Their beliefs will be discussed more fully below.

In or about 1967, when John had been in the work for about 13 years, Walter for about 5-6 years, and Truitt for about 3 years, a tribunal meeting was called which culminated in the three men being dismissed from the work. Paul Abenroth was present in this meeting and provided this description: “Three or four of us young bucks happened to be included in a meeting in about 1967 in the house at Olympia, Washington Convention when a number of Workers met with the two Oyler boys and John Starkweather regarding their doctrinal understanding.

In attendance were Willie Jamieson, Tharold Sylvester, Howard Mooney, Ernest Nelson, Charlie Krub, Bob Ingram, Ralph Sines, Dennis Jacobsen, Scott Vail, Margaret Robertson, Blanche Curtis and some others. (Note: the first four men were the Overseers of California, Washington, Oregon and Western Canada, respectively) No hymns were sung, no prayers offered -- mainly statements of accusation and warnings against the two Oylers and John.

You can rest assured that us younger ones went away with a clear understanding of what we might be in for if we in any way sympathized with the views held by the three fellows who were the subject of the meeting that day.

The Workers did not disclose to the men the nature of their offenses, other than to say that they were causing division through divisive doctrine they taught. The Overseers claimed they had some private incriminating papers, but it was not anything the men had written. They were convicted on hearsay. Sometime after the meeting Truitt was sent to Washington and John to California. Not long after, all three men were expelled from the work for teaching “divisive doctrine.”

About five years later in, perhaps in 1973, both John and Truitt signed letters agreeing not to teach their "divisive doctrine." John and Truitt were reinstated in the work and sent to other fields. Walter did not return to the work. John was sent to Texas in 1973 where Hubert Childers was the Overseer; and Truitt went to Alaska in 1974 where Bob Ingram was the Overseer. Both men were highly regarded in their new fields and were soon given more responsibility. John became Overseer of Louisiana in 1978 and then Overseer of Texas from 1983 to 1986. Truitt became a senior brother Worker in Alaska.

After he was reinstated in the work, Truitt was admonished over the years several times by Workers for continuing to teach his doctrine. After a meeting held in Seattle in October, 1989, Truitt was sent to Alberta, Canada to be with Willis Propp: "We were also disappointed to hear that there is a division in the ministry caused by a few of the Alaska Workers bringing into Washington the influence of the doctrine that Truitt has been teaching in Alaska.

This type of division has previously been evident in other areas where Truitt has labored. We had a long visit with Truitt in hope that he would see the damage that had been done. It has been decided that Truitt would go to Alberta with Willis Propp in hope that he could help him see where his doctrine has been in error" (Oct. 3, 1989 letter to Our dear Alaska Friends signed by Tharold Sylvester, Eldon Tenniswood, Ernest Nelson, Howard Mooney).

In April, 1990, Truitt was told he must “step aside” from the ministry for teaching “divisive doctrine.” He was about 44 years old. Truitt’s name was on a Workers list for the last time on the first 1989-1990 Alaska Workers List. The revised November, 1989-1990 Alaska Workers List did not include the names of Truitt or Bob Ingram. The following statement was prepared listing the reasons and conditions:

www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/montana.php

Here is an article written by John Wegter when he was a 2x2 worker: John has a clear understanding the Word God refers to the Father AND Jesus (2005).

Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 7:14. "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." (Immanuel means "God with us.")

The scriptures contain many names and titles given to the Lord Jesus, such as the ones included in these verses. The more we understand the many aspects of His nature and the unique roles that He plays in the experience of mankind, the better we can glorify Him, as He so richly deserves. The better we know Him, the more we love and appreciate Him for who He is in His infinite, eternal, divine nature as well as for the greatness of the work He has accomplished.

As a child growing up with constant exposure to God's word and the message of the Lord Jesus, I most often thought of Him as the Son of God, since that is a description that the scripture often uses to refer to Him. As years passed, however, I began to see that at times the scriptures refer to Jesus simply as "God" -- as in the above verses from Isaiah -- instead of "Son of God".

This seemed a paradox, and is a point of great confusion for people who persist in thinking according to the familiar human patterns. We find it hard to understand how someone could ever be both God and God's Son at the same time. However, the infinity of God's nature is definitely not limited as our human mind is limited. As we open ourselves to His guidance and teaching, His Spirit enables us to see beyond what the human spirit can perceive. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24) It helps us to grasp more about God when we understand that "God" is not necessarily used as a proper name denoting one particular individual as we think of individuals, but is rather one particular spirit or nature.

For this reason that "God" can refer not only to the eternal Father, but also to His Son, our Lord Jesus. Again, we need to lay aside human thinking patterns as we contemplate the unique nature of the Lord Jesus. Though He was conceived miraculously in the womb of His virgin mother by the Holy Spirit, He was not half-human, half-divine, as we would normally think of human beings that possess a part of their father's nature and a part of their mother's. Jesus was all divine, possessing all of the nature of His Father, as well as being all human, possessing all of our nature.

Several scriptures help us understand this truth: "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9) "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." (Philippians 2:6-7) "He had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." (Hebrews 2:17)

Because the Lord Jesus possesses all the nature of His Father, the scriptures call Him God as well as Son of God. Here are a few examples: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. " (John 1:1, 14)

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true -- even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20) About the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever." (Hebrews 1:8) The Old Testament in the original Hebrew language frequently uses a unique, unpronounceable name of God, YHWH.

This name was considered so sacred that when the scriptures were read, the Jewish readers did not even attempt to pronounce the name, but instead substituted the word "Adonai", which means "Lord". This practice carried over into the New Testament; the writers who cited scriptures from the Old Testament wrote "Kurios", the Greek equivalent of "Adonai" ("Lord"), instead of the unpronounceable sacred name. The translators of most English versions of the Bible have chosen to translate YHWH as "LORD", written with four capital letters to differentiate it from "lord" and "Lord", words which denote "owner" or "master" (either human or divine) instead of the unique sacred name.

The point of all this is that a number of times where we read "LORD" in the Old Testament, it is making direct reference to Jesus instead of God the Father. See the following examples: "My eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." (Isaiah 6:5) Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. (John 12:41) "You, O LORD, sit enthroned forever; your renown endures through all generations." (Psalm 102:12) (Hebrews 1:8,) which we have already quoted, assures us that this psalm is speaking of the Son. "

'The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.'" (Jeremiah 23:5-6) All of these verses and a number of others show us that our Lord Jesus is, along with His Father, the LORD of the Old Testament, the one who is proclaimed to be the only true God. "All kingdoms on earth may know that you alone, O LORD, are God." (2 Kings 19:19)

When God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, He identified Himself in a unique way: "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14) The Lord Jesus used this same phrase to identify Himself to the Jews in His day: "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!' (John 8:58) While the English grammar may not convey the distinction as clearly as the original languages, it was very clear to the Jews that heard Him that He was identifying Himself with God, the eternal I AM, and because of this supposed blasphemy, they picked up stones to stone Him, just as they did when He proclaimed, "I and the Father are one."

(John 10:30) True believers, however, see that, far from usurping God's name, power, and authority, Jesus, being God in very nature, deserves our honor, worship, and praise just as the Father does. "All may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him." (John 5:23) It mentioning that when we say Jesus is God or that Father and Son are one, we are not saying that Jesus is the Father or that they are only one person.

They are one in the sense that they are perfectly united in nature, in spirit, in purpose, in love, in power, and in every other way. The nature of their unity is made clear in Jesus' prayer to His Father before the crucifixion. "Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name -- the name you gave me -- so that they may be one as we are one... that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." (John 17:11, 21-23) Just as God's people can by His Spirit be perfectly united with each other while remaining distinct persons, so it is with the Son and Father: perfectly united in nature, yet readily identifiable as two persons.

Philippians 2:5-11 gives a beautiful picture of the work Jesus accomplished while on earth, also showing a great deal of the relationship between Son and Father: "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death -- even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Every step that the Lord Jesus took to become a man, and every step He took as a man was a step of willing, humble obedience to His Father's will, since it was likewise His own will.

Understanding that He was "in very nature God" helps us to understand how greatly He humbled Himself to become a human being. As if it were not enough to take on human nature with its frailty, Jesus was born into a family of the poorest people; so poor they could not even offer the usual lamb for the purification offering after His birth. After some years of exile in Egypt, he was brought up in Nazareth, a town of dubious reputation.

When He was thirty years old, He voluntarily left His home and family, such as they were, and became a homeless vagabond preacher, repeatedly suffering abuse, scorn and disbelief at the hands of those whom He had come to save. At last, after a life of self-denial and sacrifice, he was subjected to the ignominious death of crucifixion. As we contemplate each experience in His life, let us remember, this is not just a man, this is God! A hymn says, "Amazing love! How can it be that Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?" Because of His will to humble Himself so completely for us, He is exalted to the highest place, forever worthy of all our Praise and Worship.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Colossians 1:27) It is indeed overwhelming to think that this one who is our God, having once taken upon Himself the limitations of human flesh, would choose to do so again and again as He dwells in the believers, yet that is exactly what He does! The scripture gives many pictures of the work He will do as He walks in His people in every generation, including our own. "(God) made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions -- it is by grace you have been saved.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2:5-6) He takes us in all our deadness and gives us divine, eternal life. He gives us access to the fellowship of heaven. "I pray ... that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe.

That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms." (Ephesians 1:18-20) He shares with us the same power by which death was conquered forever in the resurrection! "We are heirs -- heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ." (Romans 8:17)

He makes us joint heirs with Himself, sharing with Him in all the richness of the provision of His eternal kingdom. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world... I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." (John 17:24-26)

Jesus shares with us the special love between Him and His Father, making us partakers in the same intimate relationship that they have enjoyed from eternity No mere man, no angel could ever do for us what our Lord Jesus has done. The more we learn of who He is and how great His power is on our behalf, the more we bow in humble adoration and marvel at what He has done and is doing for us!

John W.


~~ John Wegter (ex-worker ) wrote: I heard a fairly young -- but already quite influential -- sister worker speak a message at a large convention in 2009 something that I considered to be quite in error in doctrine, regarding the nature of the Lord Jesus, in which she over-emphasized His humanity, very much at the expense of His divinity. I was quite distressed with the message, and not knowing this particular lady personally at all, had no idea if it's something she preaches all the time, or if she just happened to be misunderstood in her emphasis in that particular meeting.

Whatever the case, in the very next meeting, two individuals -- an older lady in testimony and the brother worker who had the longest part in the meeting -- both made some very explicit statements, not mentioning her or her message, but making it clear that our Lord was both fully human AND fully divine, and presenting sound teaching to back up their points. I hope someone who knew her well (and I wouldn't be surprised that the brother worker did so, knowing his approach) helped her see the error of teaching one side without presenting the other. I was grateful for the sake of everyone present that a more complete message was presented, because otherwise it would have been a very discordant and lopsided impression given of our Savior.

~~ an ex-2x2 wrote in 8/3/2017 on TMB

"I have an e-mail from Barb H. when I was writing back and forth to her and she put in writing that yes what I was revealed on my own through the holy spirit she also agrees with on the topic of who God is. One God who consists of 3 individual entities the father, the son, the holy spirit. She told me many friends don't get it but to not stop worshiping in spirit and in truth. I couldn't sit around the emblems with a people who worship Jesus, yet claim that he isn't God and we know that our Bible tells us to only worship one God so it contradicted itself when everyone was worshiping Jesus. They didn't get it and they didn't put Jesus in his fullness. Doctrine is not sound and it was so saddening to me.

[nathan]

(Part 8) The Purging and the chaos Aftermath of Truitt's Jesus is God teachings.

The Purging of Truitt’s Doctrine – 1990s

Everett Swanson, Overseer of Montana, began a purge of the Fellowship in Montana, the home state of Truitt, Walter and John. Everett excommunicated numerous Friends and families when they refused to renounce their belief in “Truitt’s Doctrine;” or refused to "Accept the decisions of the Elders of the Ministry as just and final."

Reportedly, Everett Swanson travelled around Montana holding Gospel Meetings. His message was designed to counter the “false doctrine of others,” and emphasized the humanity of Christ, presenting Jesus as less than fully divine. The following list was compiled and distributed by Everett.

FACTS OF CHRIST'S HUMAN NATURE
by Everett Swanson, Bozeman Montana

October 10, 1991

Heb 2:9 "Jesus was made a little lower than the angels." If he were only divine he would definitely have been on a higher level.

Heb. 2:10 He was made "perfect through sufferings". Jesus was not ready made.
In Lk. 2:50 he "increased". In Heb. 5:8 he "learned obedience", vs 9 "being made perfect". This is proof of a human nature because a process was taking place.

Heb. 2:16 "Seed of Abraham". Gen. 1:12. Seed can only produce after its kind. He had the identical nature of Abraham which was human. Human life has human nature.

Heb. 2:17 "Wherefore it behooved (essential) him to be made like unto his brethren". If he isn't like us in human nature he failed because he said he would be as us and so it happened.

Heb. 2:18 He "suffered being tempted". God cannot be tempted James 1:13 but Christ could. He suffered because of human desire, and in all things, 4:15.

Heb. 5:7 He prayed for himself that he would be saved from the 2nd death and was heard because he feared. When he took the human nature he could have lost his salvation, so he wept and prayed.

Phil. 2:8 "He humbled himself and became obedient". If he was only spiritual this would be totally unnecessary

1 Tim. 2:5 The "man" Jesus Christ. This word in the Greek means human nature. Jesus called himself the Son of man.

Mt. 4:1 The spirit wanted Jesus to be tempted. Satan tried for 40 days. Both God and Satan knew Jesus could be defeated but he conquered.

Rev. 3:21 Jesus overcame after a struggle and wants us to also. We also can overcome in the struggle.

Reportedly, at the end of the meetings where he delivered this counter doctrine message, Everett would ask the Friends who agreed with him to stand to their feet. The majority did, and those who did not stand were disfellowshipped. At a Manhattan Convention held in the 1980's, Friends and Workers were asked to show which side they were on by standing to their feet during a meeting. Most of the Oyler relatives scattered across the state did not stand, and were excluded from fellowship. Some families were divided because some family members were married to Oylers. The Friends were forbidden to even talk to the Oyler family members. Afterwards, none of the Oyler families were allowed on the Manhattan Convention grounds.

There are some undated notes of a sermon titled “The Nature of Jesus” by Dan Hilton which possibly circulated around this time in an attempt to quash Truitt’s Doctrine and re-educate those who had heard it. While the opening paragraph mentions Jesus having both a human and divine nature, Dan then expounds for three pages on the human nature of Jesus “who had the same human nature as we.” The last paragraph warns against being carried away by strong delusion.

A young sister Worker in Montana wrote: “During that time in the 1990's, I had companions sit me down and we would go over the whole thing and why Truitt was wrong. There were Special Meetings devoted entirely to that subject, it went on and on. If you even hinted that you believed any of Truitt's doctrine, you were immediately under scrutiny and were in danger of being removed from the work or fellowship entirely.”

Unfortunately, Everett’s method of cleansing the church of said “false doctrine” caused much havoc and grief as families were divided and churches were split apart, and many rifts were created. Many will never forget that period in history when Everett shook the Family Tree of the Montana Fellowship.

Everett did something else that greatly upset the friends and workers in February 1994. He abruptly cancelled the 1994 Ronan, Montana, Convention which was already printed on Pacific Coast Convention List to be held June 16-19, 1994 on the property of Reuben and Mary Hoversland.

One story was that Everett thought the kitchen was too antiquated and the owner wouldnot agree to the upgrades Everett thought were necessary. Everett was angry and just closed it down. Another (untrue) story circulated that the State or County closed it down. However, a statement from Mary Hoversland indicated the Lake County sanitation inspector had come in February and everything passed inspection.

Reportedly, Everett said with all the money and the cars of the Friends who had been attending that Convention, it should not be a problem for them to drive down to Manhattan. He did not take into account that Ronan is located in a farming community where many go home each night and sometimes even during the day to take care of chores.

Manhattan is 240 miles (3.5 hours) from Ronan, and the other Montana Convention, Dagmar, is 615 miles away. Conventions at Ronan were resumed at least by 2010, perhaps earlier. In 2014, one of the Hoversland’s daughters and her husband built a home on the property and the facilities have since been remodeled and improved.

Escalating problems in Montana resulted in a meeting of 11 Overseers at Manhattan, MT. Decisions were made which were stated in a signed letter dated April 26, 1995. They met: "for the purpose of helping to search for some solution to the continued unrest and growing division among the workers and friends in the State. We did not come to hinder the efforts to handle the doctrine problem. We did not come to reconsider the Ronan issue. We do not wish to weaken but rather commend the standard Everett has upheld. We do not want in any way to underestimate the good he has done for Montana.

Following our interviews with all the Montana workers and a cross section of the friends, we have considered all the solutions suggested. It is our conclusion that the following changes would be in the best interests of the Kingdom. We sincerely hope that these will help to restore unity. 1. We esteem Everett Swanson very highly for his willingness to join the British Columbia Staff and leave the way open for Jack Price to assume full responsibility over Montana, with the cooperation of Charles Preston. 2. Dale Shultz will take the place of Jack Price in Saskatchewan. 3. Jack Price will also assume responsibility over Wyoming, combining the Montana and Wyoming workers into one staff."

Transfer details for other workers were also listed in the letter. Everett Swanson was demoted in 1995, and sent to preach in British Columbia, Canada. He’s shown on the 1995 B.C. List. Jack Price assumed full responsibility for Montana and Wyoming with the cooperation of Charles Preston. A few years later, Dean Bruer assumed the oversight of MT-WY.

Alaska purged

In Alaska, the Workers conducted a house by house purge of the Friends. “The Workers had been over to our house, made huge accusations about Truitt being involved and led astray by the Catholic church. Neither of these Workers had ever met him and were just making sweeping statements about Truitt's beliefs based on hearsay. As soon as they left I called Truitt and asked him everything. He is really interesting to talk to, upfront, frank, straight forward. He will talk and talk and talk about scripture. He's passionate about God.”

However, things were handled quite differently in Texas and Louisiana where John Starkweather had been in the work. There was no purge. The Friends were left to sort out their doctrinal beliefs according to their conscience. Those who agreed with John's teaching were not penalized. A very few voluntarily left meetings in protest. The residual problems in Texas and Louisiana were minimal by comparison since the Workers did not force people to confess to one particular doctrine over another.

Reportedly Wm. Lewis, an Overseer in Eastern USA, spoke with John and said. "I've talked to John and to be honest I guess I don't really know what the fuss is all about." On the other hand, Howard Mooney, Overseer of Oregon, et al, disagreed.

History of Bob Ingram and Truitt’s labor in Alaska:

Bob went to preach in Alaska in 1965-66, where he was the Overseer. In 1972 there were 2 brother Workers and 4 sisters on the AK staff. Truitt was sent to Alaska in 1974-75. Bob and Truitt were the only 2 brothers in Alaska through 1976. Beginning 1977, more brother and sister Workers were added to the staff. By 1980 there were a total of 10 Workers in the state; 4 brothers and 6 sisters, and this number continued up until 1989 with Bob and Truitt being the two senior brother Workers since 1974.

Epilogue in 2015:

ALASKA: Sydney Holt replaced Bob in Alaska in 1989 when Bob was dismissed from the work. Syd died suddenly on August 3, 2002, at age 75.5 yrs. Mark Huddle replaced Syd. Tharold Sylvester died January 5, 1994.

MONTANA: Everett Swanson was demoted in 1995 and sent to preach in British Columbia, Canada. Jack Price assumed full responsibility for Montana and Wyoming with the cooperation of Charles Preston. Charles R. Preston passed away April 30, 2001, age 102 and is buried in Missoula Cemetery in Missoula, MT. View his tombstone. A few years later, Dean Bruer assumed the oversight of MT-WY and remains so in 2015. Everett is still living (in 2015). He was inactive from the ministry in 2020. 

Walter Oyler never married and passed away at his lodge in Alaska on the Kenai River, age 71, on July 31, 2012.His funeral and burial took place in Montana. View obituary

Truitt Oyler married Judy A. Dudley, an ex-sister Worker who was expelled from the work around 1991. They reside in Alaska, where Judy has full part in meetings and Truitt is allowed to attend gospel meetings and convention.

Tom Lyness died in 1970, age 87. Tom and his sister Annie are buried in Manhattan, Montana and share the same tombstone. View tombstone

Howard Mooney died in 1999, age 92 and buried in Portland, Oregon. 

Jack Price died March 28, 2015, age 93 and is buried in Armstrong, B.C. Canada. View obituary

Bob Ingram remained actively professing after he left the work, and lived in Fairbanks until his death in January 18, 2015. View obituary

www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/montana.php

1) Moline wrote: Hi Nathan, We as earthly beings find this difficult to comprehend however the bible makes it clear. I have never have heard a worker handle the Deity of Christ well, yet in the early days of the movement, Eddie Cooney and William Irvine clearly believed in a Triune God. It seems that over the years, one would assume, because of a LACK of sound doctrinal teaching, many basics of the scripture are NOT well understood by the Current 2x2s leaderships and the friends.

2) NathanB wrote: Yes, Moline you are correct! the workers in 1950 and onwards because of their LACK  understanding on the SOUND doctrine of the TRINITY and they lead the friends off the tracks with their Anti-Trinity doctrine, Jesus is NOT God and began to excommunicate workers in 1970s in Montana and 1990s in Alaska that preached and believed in the Trinity or Jesus is God belief.

The current 2x2s workers and the friends are caught in predicament situation! MOST of them are Anti-TRINITY believers but they STILL LOVE and appreciate their TRINITY= Father, Christ/Jesus, and Holy Spirit Sunday morning WORSHIP meetings around the WORLD. This has proven to me the current workers and the friends WENT off the tracks in 1950s because of THEIR LACK of UNDERSTANDING on the TRUE teaching of the TRINITY Godhead. They don't FULLY KNOW WHO CHRIST is or Jesus really is.

The early 2x2 workers believed/taught the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God the Christ/YHWH NOT God the Father but the Son. 

3) SharonW. wrote in 2018:

You're absolutely right, Nathan! Jesus, God the Son is such an awesome Almighty One! It still amazes me to think I'd gone nearly 60 yrs. reading the bible very faithfully and NEVER got that for myself! Strange that, eh? I pray for those in the fellowship still, that they can come to that maturity of understanding about our Beloved Lord! I think that they are missing something totally OUT OF THIS WORLD!

Simply because the majority of them have LITTLE idea about who Jesus really is! O What A Savior! I had hardly ever heard of the concept except in a table discussion back when I was about 4 or 5 yrs. old. A number of workers and our family sharing a meal together.

My Gram having been raised a Baptist, knew what the Trinity concept was. It was brought into discussion and the older workers exclaimed that the doctrine was a heresy! I never heard of the concept again until coming on TMB. Nathan wrote an extensive explanation with scripture backing of what the Trinity means and is, it was almost beyond my comprehension! I became troubled that this was beyond my comprehension so much so, that I prayed to God that "IF HE thought it necessary for me to understand the Trinity, then would HE PLEASE reveal it to me."

I left it there and after some time, it begin to come to me at another time of prayer like a light from heaven! The joy of that understanding of my Lord is beyond another imagination, comprehension.... YES! God revealed it to me! Jesus is the most wonderful awesome King of Kings and Lord of Lords and HE died for me! Hallelujah! And I was professing when this happened!

After I'd studied Jesus Christ for about 3 years and had some long arguments with Nathan and St.Anne here on TMB with Scott sometimes putting a bit of information in the kettle, I had to realize that all that Nathan and St.Anne were saying about the Trinity was definitely in the bible even thought the word "Trinity" wasn't!

As time passed and more realization of what the Trinity was all about, and I'll say we that do believe are always gaining more insight into it as we go on and maturity of using the word of God (the bible) feeding on the "meat of the word" that it is certainly like most of mankind throughout the ages that as each generation lives and dies the more understanding of the heavenly God has come into the minds of that generation.

So I feel that ignorance and misunderstanding is what's keeping most in the 2x2 from accepting or knowing the Trinity= Triune God concept!

4) Reborn 2x2 wrote in 2021: I put the time in to pray about it, so I am perfectly content with the answer God gave me. Seek truth!

Here is some truth- Fixit/2x2 church elder anti-Trinity believer has his own little AGENDA of OFF-ing people that are his true brothers or sisters in Christ by judging they have incorrect dogma. Speak/2x2 elder stands by and says nothing of the murderous spiritual intent there. No true brothers there.

This has run parallel in this post pretty much the entire time. I brought it up yesterday because he would like to dispose of those whom he disagrees with. Here in the US this has happened to some, and quite frankly it is ugly. Thankful that my God will not let me go.

God has spoken his truth to me, about who he is. Why are you so hyper- focused on this? I suspect that God has been trying to teach you for quite a while, but your own stubbornness and lack of humility is keeping you back.

I have lived enough life to know that you would be hard pressed to find any 2 people who agreed on 100 percent of all there is to know! I do not believe that this is what Nathan is referring to. I will state here that Nathan and I both have been taught of Gods concerning our Godhead beliefs. My own Father is an elder meeting in his home, and believes the same. Many currently on this board, and others who used to post, believe the same concerning the Godhead

Fixits own ways are his own judge. He admitted it himself, and said that he SHOULD be doing something more practical. As an elder's daughter, I do not respect his behavior here at all. He wastes so much time in here actually PROVOKING fights. So sad!

[nathan]

(Part 9) 

Nathan: Many of the Current workers and the friends follow and adopted Arius the RCC monk, heretic which he believed in Anti-Trinity; and Jesus is NOT God doctrine back in the 4th Century.

Arianism is a heresy named for Arius, a priest and false teacher in the early fourth century AD in Alexandria, Egypt. One of the earliest and probably the most important item of debate among early Christians was the subject of Christ’s deity. Was Jesus truly God in the flesh, or was Jesus a created being? Was Jesus God or not? Arius denied the deity of the Son of God, holding that Jesus was created by God as the first act of creation and that the nature of Christ was anomoios (“unlike”) that of God the Father. Arianism, then, is the view that Jesus is a finite created being with some divine attributes, but He is not eternal and not divine in and of Himself.

Arianism misunderstands biblical references to Jesus’ being tired (John 4:6) and not knowing the date of His return (Matthew 24:36). It may be difficult to understand how God could be tired or not know something, but these verses speak of Jesus’ human nature. Jesus is fully God, but He is also fully human. The Son of God did not become a human being until a specific point of time we call the Incarnation. Therefore, Jesus’ limitations as a human being have no impact on His divine nature or His eternality.

A second major misinterpretation in Arianism concerns the meaning of firstborn as applied to Christ. Romans 8:29 speaks of Christ as “the firstborn among many brothers and sisters” (see also Colossians 1:15–20). Arians understand firstborn in these verses to mean that the Son of God was “created” as the first act of creation. This is not the case.

Jesus Himself proclaimed His self-existence and eternality (John 8:58; 10:30). In Bible times, the firstborn son of a family was held in great honor (Genesis 49:3; Exodus 11:5; 34:19; Numbers 3:40; Psalm 89:27; Jeremiah 31:9). It is in this sense that Jesus is God’s “firstborn.” Jesus is the preeminent Person in God’s plan and the Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2). Jesus is the “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

After nearly a century of debate at various early church councils, the Christian church officially denounced Arianism as a false doctrine. Since that time, Arianism has never been accepted as a viable doctrine of the Christian faith. Arianism has not died out, however. Arianism has continued through the centuries in varying forms. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons of today hold a very Arian-like position on Christ’s nature. Following the example of the early church, we must denounce any and all attacks on the deity of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

www.gotquestions.org/arianism.html

Apostolic apostles Writings

Clement of Rome 1st century. He may well have been a companion of both Peter and Paul (Phil. 4:3). On the behalf of the church in Rome, he wrote a letter to the Corinthian church, in aid the church leaders who had been ousted by a minority faction.

Ignatius (A.D. 35-107) A personal disciple of one or more apostles. He was executed in Rome A.D. 107. On his way to Rome as a prisoner, Ignatius wrote letters to several churches; these letters give considerable insight into the structure and beliefs of the churches in Asia Minor (Turkey) at the close of the apostolic age.

Papias (A.D.60-130) A disciple of John the apostle and a friend of Polycarp. He was a Bishop (pastor) of Hierapolis in Asia Minor (Turkey today). His testimony concerning the Gospels of Matthew and Mark has been invaluable to the church.

Polycarp (A.D. 69-156) Another disciple of John apostle. He was faithful bishop (pastor) of Smyrna. He was arrested in his old age and was burned to death.

Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) When the disciples had seen Jesus ascending into heaven, and had believed, and received the Power, He sent upon them from heaven, they went to Every race of men. And, they taught these things and were called apostles. These Twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world, and continued to show His greatness with all modesty and uprightness.

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Christ is said to have baptized Peter alone and Peter baptized Andrew; Andrew and, John. The two of them baptized James and the rest. To James the Just. John, and Peter, the Lord imparted knowledge after His resurrection. These imparted it to the rest of the apostles. And the rest of the apostles imparted it to the "Seventy" (in Luke 10:1-2), of whom Barnabas was one.

Tertullian (A.D. 197) As their Divine Master commanded them, "When He, the Spirit of Truth will come, He will lead you into ALL truth." You have the work of the apostles also predicted: How beautiful are the feet of those who Preach the gospel of peace, which bring glad tidings of good NOT of war, nor evil tidings (Isa. 52:7).

In response to which is the (Psalm 19:5) "Their voice is gone through all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." We see the voice of the apostles have gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. His disciples, also spreading over the world, did as their Master commanded them.

Origin (A.D. 245) On this account, the apostles LEFT Israel and accomplished that which had been commanded them by the Savior: "Make disciples of ALL the nations." It was by the help of a Divine power that these men taught Christianity, and succeeded in leading others to embrace the Word of God. For it was NOT any power of theirs speaking. At the request of their Master and God, the disciples scattered over the world and gave forth his teachings for Salvation.

Lactantius (A.D. 304-313) At this time after the ascension, his apostles were 11 in number. To them was added Matthias, in the place of the traitor Judas Iscariot. And, afterward Paul was added. Then they were dispersed throughout ALL the earth to Preach the gospel of the Lord, as their Master had commanded them. For the next 25 years (until the beginning of the reign of Emperor Nero), they busied themselves in laying the foundations of the churches in every province and city.

Most of the apostles in the second century had a clear understanding of the Godhead/Triune God.

Clement of Alexandrea (Died about A.D. 215) taught the Triune God saying, "The Word itself, that is, the Son of God, being by equality of substance, one with the Father, is and Uncreated. And I understand else nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third, is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made."

Tertullian (Died about A.D. 230) Also taught Triune God saying, "I ask you how it is possible that a Being who is merely and absolutely One in singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let US make man in OUR own image, and after Our likeness" ... it was because He already had His Son close at His side, as a Second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase.

Origin (A.D. 185-254) The most learned man of the ancient church. A great traveler; and a voluminous writer, employing at times as many as twenty copyists. He died in Palestine, where he died as a result of imprisonment and torture under Deices Emperor.

Also taught Triune God saying, "For who else was He which is to come than Christ? And as no one ought to be offended, seeing God is the Father, that the Savior is also God; So also, since the Father is called Omnipotent, no one ought to be offended that the Son of God is also called Omnipotent. From all, which we learn that the person of the Holy Spirit was of such authority and dignity, that saving baptism was not complete except by the authority of the most excellent Trinity of them all by the naming of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. "

This is the doctrine and teaching of the TRINITY.

The concept of the Triune God is taught in the Old and New Testament. In the 2nd century the second generation of the apostles coined a beautiful description word "Trinity" to describe the Triune God in the Bible.

The 2nd century apostles....
From A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David W. Bercot

Hippolytus (205 A.D.) "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." By this, He showed that whoever omits any one of them, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through the TRINITY that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, and the Spirit manifested.

It is the Father who commands, and the Son who obeys, and the Holy Spirit who give understanding. The Father is above ALL, the Son is through ALL, and the Holy Spirit is in ALL. Paul the apostle explains that there is the exact same order within the TRINITY, saying, "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (I Cor. 11:3). So the Father has authority over the Son. The Son is sent by the Father; the Son does the will of the Father; and the Son sits at the Father's right hand. This hierarchy of order can not be reversed. Yet this hierarchy of order in no way diminishes the Son's divinity.

Tertullian (212 A.D.) For the very church itself is properly and principally the Spirit Himself, in whom is the TRINITY of the One Divinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Cyprian (250 A.D.) Observing the third, sixth, and nineth month for a sacrament of the TRINITY, which was to be manifested in the last times. For the first hour in its progress to the third declared the completed number of the TRINITY. The TRINITY names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are NOT ignorant that there is ONE God; and One Christ, the Lord; and One Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit." He suggested that TRINITY, in whose sacrament the nations were to be baptized.

Origin (225 A.D.) Saving baptism was NOT complete except by the authority of the most excellent TRINITY of them all. That is, it is made complete by naming the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this, we join the name of the Holy Spirit to the Unbegotten God (the Father) and to His Only-begotten Son.

Question: "What is the meaning of ‘Everlasting Father’ in Isaiah 9:6?"

Answer: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).

In context, this verse is proclaiming the redemption of Israel and the activities, titles, and blessings of the Messiah who is to rule the earth and usher in a reign of blessing and peace that will have no end. One of His titles is “Everlasting Father.”

The Hebrew phrase translated “Everlasting Father” could be translated literally “Father of Eternity.” For this reason, some have suggested that the title means that this coming Messiah is also the creator of everything: He is the father of time and eternity, the “architect of the ages.” While we know this to be true from the New Testament (John 1:1–3, Colossians 1:16–17), that is not the emphasis in Isaiah. In the Hebrew construction of the phrase, father is the primary noun, and everlasting (ESV, NIV, KJV) or eternal (NASB) is the term that describes His fatherhood. He is Father forever.

The Hebrew word translated “everlasting” has the idea of “in perpetuity” or “without end.” Indeed, the next verse says of the Messiah, “Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end” (Isaiah 9:7). The emphasis is forward looking, so “everlasting” is probably a better translation than “eternal,” which not only indicates “without end” but also “without beginning.” (Again, from the New Testament we may argue that the Messiah is without beginning, but that is not the emphasis of this term in Isaiah.)

In ancient times, the “father of the nation” was viewed in much the same way as the father of a family. It was the father who was to protect and provide for his children. In the same way, this Child to be born will become a king who will be a father to the children of Israel—He will protect and provide for them. And His role as protector and provider will not be limited by aging or death.

His role as father (protector and provider) will continue in perpetuity. Just how this will come about is not revealed in Isaiah’s prophecy. The full identity of the Messiah—that He is God in the flesh, the second Person of the Trinity who would protect and provide for His people by His death and resurrection on their behalf; and that Gentiles could also be grafted into the family of Israel—may be hinted at in Isaiah, but God’s people would have to wait almost 700 years to see the Messiah revealed in the “fullness of time” (see Galatians 4:4).

www.gotquestions.org/Everlasting-Father.html

~~ Here are the early church apostles teaching on Jesus Celibacy:
A dictionary of early Christians beliefs by David W. Bercot

~~ (Methodius A.D. 290) Let us inquire as to the reason that none of the patriarchs, prophets, and righteous men, either praised or chose the state of virginity. The reason that is was reserved for the Lord alone to be the first to teach this doctrine. It was fitting that Jesus who was the first and chief of priests, prophets, and angels should also be hailed as the FIRST and chief of VIRGINS. For in the old times, man was not yet perfect. And for this reason, he was unable to receive perfection which is VIRGINITY.

~~ (Pierius A.D. 275) " I wish that all men were even as I am." Pierius, when he was expounding and unfolding the meaning of the apostle Paul and purposed to explain these words, added this remark: " In saying this, Paul clearly preaches Celibacy." concerning virginity, we received no commandments. Rather, we have leave it to the power of those who are willing to maintain it as a VOW. It is clear to all, without any doubt, that to care for the things of the Lord and to please God is much better than to please one's wife.

(Methoditus A.D. 290) In the Song of songs, to any who is willing to see it, Christ Himself praises those who are firmly established in Virginity, saying, "As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters."

Virginity is something supernaturally great, wonderful, and glorious. To speak plainly and in accordance with the Holy Scriptures, this best and noble manner of life is alone the root of immorality-- as well as its flower and first fruits. And for this reason, the Lord promises that those who have made themselves ENUNUCHS shall enter the kingdoms of heaven.

Celibacy among humans is a very rare thing and difficult to attain. It is NOT enough to merely keep the body undefiled but we must care for the souls of men as being the divinities of their bodies. For all of the irrational appetites of a virgin are banished from the body by divine teaching.

[nathan]

(Part 10) There are a number of churches that don't believe the trinity but they are not united and all have different views on the nature of Jesus.

Mormons (Church of Latter day Saints) are non-trinitarian and teach that Jesus is the literal son of God but believe he pre-existed and that he created the world under the Father's direction, thus there is complete unity between God the Father and God the Son but that they are separate beings.

Jehovah's witnesses are like the Mormons in that they say that Jesus is the son of God, therefore not part of a trinity, but they think that Jesus was created in heaven, so they apply the doctrine of the preexistence to Jesus, making him the creator of the world under God's control.

The Worldwide Church of God (Armstrong) is non-trinitarian but split into factions during the 1990s, two of them being the United Church of God and the Church of God International. They, like the two groups above, believe in a binitarian relationship between father and son which is the same as the trinity minus the holy spirit.

Christadelphians believe that Jesus Christ is God's direct son, a human being born of Mary according to the promise of Messiah made in the beginning, making him preeminent over Abraham, Moses, and the prophets, but not preexistent. They believe he was raised from the dead and is now immortal at the right hand of the Father.

Christian Scientists believe that the scriptures reveal the mind of God and that those who follow this divine mind are healed of spiritual suffering. It is considered a way rather than an orthodox set of doctrines, but they generally reject the doctrine of the trinity and some other common doctrines.

Oneness Pentecostals believe in a version of the trinity where God is one and that he manifests himself in Jesus and the holy spirit but not that they are distinct beings.

Unitarians reject the trinity but are generally non-discriminatory over doctrine. They have a broad range of approaches to God, putting high value on the acceptance of each other rather than disputing doctrine in a negative or confrontational way. They believe that Jesus was the son of Joseph but was granted sonship of God at his baptism.

Seventh day Adventists are an interesting case because they used to be non-trinitarian then adopted the trinity at a council meeting in 1946; however some argue that they are not trinitarian but tritheist.

The TWO by TWOs and the Cooneyites followers of Edward Cooney

In order to conduct official business, the Two by Twos register names including “Christian Conventions” (U.S.), “Assemblies of Christians” (Canada), “The Testimony of Jesus” (U.K.), and “United Christian Conventions” (Australia). However, most members do not associate a formal name with the church, referring to it as “The Truth,” “The Way,” “The Jesus Way,” or “The Lowly Way.”

They meet weekly in homes and do not have any church buildings. Since there are no official records for this secretive group, membership numbers can only be estimated. Depending on the source, worldwide membership in the Two by Twos ranges from 80,000 to around 400,000.

The Two by Twos do not publish doctrinal statements or any literature except a hymn book. They use only the King James Bible in their services. Here are some of their core teachings:

The Two by Twos are anti-Trinitarian. The Holy Spirit is perceived as an attitude or force from God. Jesus is a fully human figure who came to earth to establish a way of ministry and salvation, but He is not God Himself.

The Two by Twos believe that Jesus overcame His own flesh. Great stress is laid upon following the example of Jesus but less emphasis on Jesus as Savior—Jesus’ life is more important than His death. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Godhead (John 16:8) and that Jesus is not just a good example but is the One in whom “all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

www.gotquestions.org/Two-by-Twos-Cooneyites.html

[nathan]

(Part 11) Prior to the time of Jesus Christ 2nd coming!

Where is the Garden of Eden? Inside the Hollow earth.

A message of a Venusian in 1960 from Venus sharing how life on the earth began

Chapter TWO
THE GARDEN OF EDEN

As your Bible correctly records Genesis the Elder Races/Adam and Eve lived in the Earth, not on it. The surface environ­ment was very unfavorable for them. The Garden of Eden was naturally also in the Earth, and the Adams were sent up and out on to the surface.

The Apocryhas account of their first day and night on the surface (First Book of Adam and Eve) tells of their dismay when the sun set, and their terror when it rose again the next morning, thus plainly indicating that they were entirely unfamiliar with surface conditions.

The Biblical accounts actually deal with only one of these areas: the Hebraic-Greco-Assyrian zone.

The statement that "God created man in his own image" is correct from either the physical or spiritual point of view. The real, or inner, self is part of the Un-nameable, so is necessarily in Its image. Each of the Elder Races naturally considered their own racial characteristics to be superior, so made their particular "Adams" to look as nearly like themselves as possible. Various internal changes were neces­sary, but their creations were superficially the same in ap­pearance as themselves. Thus the material self is also in the image of the material "gods."

Study your New Testament. Read and re-read the parts printed in red - the direct sayings of the Christ.

www.galactic.to/rune/rolftelano.htm

I-AM-THE-MAN, whom Hollow Earth researcher, Bruce Walton, discovered was William Morgan was sent to the hollow earth by the Freemasons with an Inner Earth Guide through a cavern in Kentucky in 1827, called the Cave of Zoroaster, which I believe could be the cave from which Adam and Eve emerged after being evicted from the Garden of Eden by God for having partaken of the forbidden fruit. William Morgan returned years later from the holllow earth and gave the manuscript of his journey to Our Hollow Earth to Johannes Llewellyn Llongollyn Drury with his promise to get it published.

www.ourhollowearth.com/ourhollo/index.html

~~ God the Father is the Creator/Designer of the Universe and of all things, and Christ the Lord God is the Father Co-creator of all things also.

God the Father called to Christ/Son Lord and God. Heb. 1: 8-12 8 But unto the Son he saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail."


~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God found in the Dead Sea Scrolls caves.

I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him.

I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times

I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind.

It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me. I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.

Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you!

It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me.

Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me.

Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.”

Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen!

You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact.

© Dr. Frank E. Stranges

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_TheGreatIAm_EN.html

The Great "I AM" Two pages from the Dead Sea Scrolls

© Julie Ann Stranges

www.nicufo.org/videos.htm

"The 21st century" gospel message from Jesus Christ our Lord God and Creator! to the World. Words of encouragement from our Lord God Jesus Christ the Creator of the Universe. Message from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

~~ Christ's Promises of New places/planets for us to DWELL temporary before the Creation of the New heaven

2000 years ago, Jesus said in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Also from Cave # 7 1. "My Dear Children, by the time you read these words, many years will have passed since my death and resurrection. The times and seasons will be different from the times which I have spent with my disciples. You will be living in perilous days and nights. But you will be aware of my presence with you at all times because this I have already committed to you long ago."

2. "My message to you is to stand fast and hold to that which has been proven to be just and true. Do not hold onto those things of this present world but rather seek first my kingdom and you will be the recipients of all that is good and Holy."

3. "These shall prove to be great days and nights of trials and tribulations. But you, my chosen ones, will rejoice because I have made a way for you were there was no way. You will find that My Words shall never return to me empty or void. You will live in total expectation that I am God of My Word. Yes, I shall keep My Word to you everyday that you live. Then, if and when you depart from your present clothing of flesh, you shall instantly be transformed to be with me for all eternity."

4. "I am presently continuing to prepare a wonderful place for you. When that place is completely prepared for you and My message of My kingdom has been carried throughout the planet, then you shall see and witness positive signs of my soon return. Keep your faith and trust in Me because I am the Lord who has promised to be at your side forever."

5. "Many will attempt to steal your crown and rob you of your joy. But they can never succeed because of My Presence with you. What you have hidden in the deep recesses of your heart can never be removed by the enemy of your soul. Maintain a strong faith in me and My Word and you shall never perish but enjoy life everlasting which I have provided you."

6. "May these words be of continuous comfort to you and to your children. Speak to them in words of joy and comfort, which have been rooted and grounded in My Holy Word. Continue to strive to perform good works among men. Allow the brightness of your own life to dispel the shadows of doubt and fear." 7. "When you read these words much prophecy will have already come to pass, however, more prophetic events will take place to assure you that I am the Lord God. I am the Lord who has permitted many things to occur in the past in order to prepare you for tomorrow. Be of good cheer. Love one another and continue to keep My Word, always."

From the Copper Scrolls Cave #3

11. "You shall also witness my angels and my Heavenly Messengers who will visit you in their chariots/Spaceships and assure you of the Gifts of God." 12. "My Heavenly Messengers will also bear you up on the wings of deliverance as I so instructed them to do." 13. "They will speak of me and my Glory and will show signs and wonders at my command. My Heavenly Messengers will also council you in the ways of the Lord and will reveal to you the wonders of the Universe, at My Command." 14. "Let your faith and confidence in me never waiver. I am with you, Always."

Copper Scrolls Cave #3 The Master speaking, "Do not permit your pure mind to become troubled in any form but rather allow your faith and your belief to solely rest in Almighty God. You believe whole-heartedly in Almighty God, you also believe in Me with all of your heart, mind and spirit.

In our universe, which I have created, there are multitudes of places and orbs which, along with the Earth, shall be your future dwelling places." "I have already prepared many places for you to visit and to also dwell in the future. In reality, because I Am God, I shall be with you always everywhere and will always accompany you. And when the time is ripe you shall know that I have already made a way for you to be transformed and then you shall dwell with me in those other places.

In that manner, we shall never be apart again for I shall be with you, always." "I have already made provisions so do not allow your pure mind, your pure heart or your spirit to become disturbed. I am well aware that the evil one and his followers have already tried and tempted you and attempted to try your faith. He is very busy and his evil activities shall increase as the time of the end shall appear." "His own angels whom I have cast out of the Heavenly, down to Earth, are busy attempting to, in every way, to destroy your faith. But young children shall be assisted by My Angels and other Heavenly Messengers, who will reveal themselves in chariots of fire/Spaceships. They will bring you a message that will cause you to be.

1. "My children, in whom I have entrusted my Spirit, will reap fortunes and riches from the totally unexpected sources. This, because the lack of such wealth has prevented you from fulfilling and performing your ministry to the fullest. I, the Lord, shall speak to those of my other children throughout this orb, and they, in direct obedience to me will communicate with you because of your faithfulness to my calling upon your life."

"Again, as I have spoken to you in times past in my word, I shall speak to you in three distinct manners: In night dreams, in visions of the day and night and by Divine Revelation. This I have promised you and this will be my bond to you. Believe it and know it for I speak these words with my mouth."

Cave #4

1. "Let the people know that my Spirit now strives with all mankind. But it shall not be this way forever."

2. "My Spirit of Life is Universal. I have many more sons and daughters who have never transgressed my perfect Law. They shall come to you. Some will visit for a short time while others will remain among you for certain times and seasons which I will appoint."

3. "My sons and daughters will spread My Word and will impart to you such knowledge that will help you in your journey through life. Heed their words and let your heart listen to their instructions because they have been sent to you, by me, to carry my words to your ears."

4. "Do not allow your discouragement to overcome you but rather rejoice in the truth that I have indeed sent help to you from the Stars."

1) The Old Testament speak about Spacecraft in Ezekiel chapter 1. A pastor explained about Ezekiel the Wheel within the wheel= Space craft.

Dan posted on TMB in 3/5/2022

Actually, some pastors/Christians do believe in vehicles being used to transport heavenly beings. Ezekiel chapter 1 is often interpreted as a description of some sort of space craft. Here's a video teaching of it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQTnY03_V8&ab_channel=YHVHSavior

Another scroll found in 1952 speaks of Ezekiel's Wheel

He was thirty years old. His birthday was the 5th of July when this event took place. Ezekiel speaking, "The Hand of the Lord is upon me (revealed). The Mighty Arm of Elohiem rose up from the river Chebar and touched my tongue. Then my eyes, then my heading the midst of the whirlwind caused by the wheel within another wheel thus emanating from the north.

The living creatures were like Angels. The Beings looked like men. The wheels did touch the Earth, the fire subsided and the door of the chamber opened and the silver pathway was lowered by the Angels." The Angels beckoned to Ezekiel to come close, to place his feet onto the silver pathway and he proceeded to join together with the Angels.

They then sat and together broke bread, drank and had fellowship together. Ezekiel was then shown the future as God so directed them. As they yet spoke, the silver pathway which came down was raised in the wheel. Ezekiel marveled at the wheel and the grandeur of the Earth falling away beneath his feet.

Among the marvels of the Earth below, Ezekiel saw the grandeur of the Sun, the moon and the stars such as he never saw before. He wept aloud as the Angels of the Lord lifted their hands and their eyes and offered praise unto the Lord of Creation.

The wheels departed from the Earth high above that of the most powerful eagle. Ezekiel saw and witnessed and understood the True meaning of Divine Fellowship between man and those who have come from afar to help the sons and daughters of men. Sleep overcame Ezekiel and when he awoke he found himself lying near the shore of the river Chebar. He witnessed and gazed upon the circle wherein the wheel had left its mark.

~~ From the same scrolls about the Temptation of Christ in Matthew 4:1-11

Lucifer saying to the Master, "Look to me to be your deliverer and savior. If you find that you are too weak, lean on me and I shall bear you up on eagle's wings when you fall from the top of this mountain. If then, you be Christ that you claim, leap from this mountaintop and prove to me that you are the Great One, the Master of the Universe." Jesus said, "You do not have the right nor the power to even tempt me to leap from this mountaintop. Nevertheless, you shall not succeed in tempting me."

Then Lucifer said, "Command then, that the stones be turned into bread because I discern that you are very hungry." Jesus answered, "Even though I may be hungry I would not seek relief from you, because you are a liar and a thief and a deceiver of my people. Depart from my presence before I strike you from the living."

It was at that moment that a bright light lit up the clouds and started to descend to the place where Jesus stood. The bright light then took the form of a chariot of fire/Spaceship. Jesus did walk upon the silver bridge and departed from the mountain from within the belly of the chariot, which shone brighter than the sun. Lucifer, then, was forced to cover his eyes and run into the blackness of the cave high atop the mountain lest he be consumed by the brightness of the chariot of fire that shone brighter than noon day sun.

These are the writings and words of the beloved disciple, John, whom Jesus loved and blessed.

Even Jesus speaks about the Chariots of fire! Space ships.

9. Copper Scrolls Cave #3

The Master speaking, "Do not permit your pure mind to become troubled in any form but rather allow your faith and your belief to solely rest in Almighty God. You believe whole-heartedly in Almighty God, you also believe in Me with all of your heart, mind and spirit. In our universe, which I have created, there are multitudes of places and orbs which, along with the Earth, shall be your future dwelling places."

"I have already prepared many places for you to visit and to also dwell in the future. In reality, because I Am God, I shall be with you always everywhere and will always accompany you. And when the time is ripe you shall know that I have already made a way for you to be transformed and then you shall dwell with me in those other places. In that manner, we shall never be apart again for I shall be with you, always."

"I have already made provisions so do not allow your pure mind, your pure heart or your spirit to become disturbed. I am well aware that the evil one and his followers have already tried and tempted you and attempted to try your faith. He is very busy and his evil activities shall increase as the time of the end shall appear."

"His own angels whom I have cast out of the Heaven, down to Earth, are busy attempting to, in every way, to destroy your faith. But you my children shall be assisted by My Angels and other Heavenly Messengers, who will reveal themselves in chariots of fire. They will bring you a message that will cause you to be encircled with My Holy Flame of Fire that will cause much discomfort to the enemy. They shall also minister to you and protect you because I have assigned them to do so with the word of my mouth. I have spoken thus."

"Now I shall leave you for but a brief season. Meanwhile, My Spirit shall accompany you always. You will never be comfortless. Even so I am with you always even unto the time of the end. My love shall embrace you as never before. For I am the Lord that changes not and I shall keep My word."

www.rense.com/general66/cave.htm

~~ Where is the Location of heaven? Inside of the hollow Venus planet= The Bright and Morning Star.

2000 yrs ago, Jesus revealed to John the apostle and to all of the believers in Christ, where is from and living at the time, the Planet Venus in Rev. 22:16 " I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, The Bright and Morning Star= Planet of Venus.

2/2018 Major UFO Disclosure - An Intelligence briefing/information was revealed to President Jimmy Carter that Jesus was A Visitor from the Interior planet of Venus. President said, "How are we going to tell people that!"

Pastor Frank E. Stranges testimony of meeting Valiant Thor from Interior Venus planet. Discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls the 21st Century gospel to mankind.

~~ In 1957 President Eisenhower asked Val. Thor, "Which planet are you from?"

He said, "I am from the planet your Bible calls the Bright and Morning Star."
President said, "You mean the planet Venus." Val said, "Yes, sir."

Here is Frank's Testimony: In 1959 Valiant Thor told him he is from Interior planet of Venus, which our Bible calls the Bright and morning Star. 30 second into the tape.

Valiant Thor is married, his wife name is Deanna and they have 1 daughter. 36:30 How Frank S. came to receive his special Dead Sea Scrolls.... listen at 51:32

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzhTqh1z_U&ab_channel=livingselfsufficient

1) Dead Sea Scrolls was revealed by Valiant Thor to Frank Stranges...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sFHVDo7XKE&list=PLv7whYPHSlwScbYv-G4sQdLVTYSmowO0-&ab_channel=moanadyball

The Dead Sea Scrolls revealed where God, Christ and His Holy angels, Valiant, Donn Thor, and the Human looking Venusian Angels LIVE inside the Morning and Evening Star= Interior Planet of Venus!

The Dead Sea Scroll #3 Cave #3 Read Genesis Chapters 17-19 About the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah cities.

"The Lord (Elohiem) instructed his Angels, both from the Morning and Evening Star/Venus, to assist Lot and his family to escape what was to befall the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Two Chosen ones instructed Lot and his family to drape themselves in white Garments (fine linen) and run away from the cities with great haste.

Then a voice came from the darkening skies from on high and the other Heavenly Messengers, also from the Morning and Evening Star/Venus who rode in their chariots of fire/Spaceship saying unto all of them below, "Make haste because the judgment of Almighty God is about to fall upon these cities. We are prepared to obey His Voice and point our fire-spears towards the cities of sin and destroy them according to the Divine Will of the Father. Then a white light as bright as the sun blazed/laser weapon behind them and the Earth did shake with a mighty roar. The elements did separate as the cities of sin were leveled to the ground. The air above the Earth was filled with destructive dust and everyone including the animals.

"The smoke rose into the heavenly and did cloak the ground with destruction. Thus, the messengers, from the Stars did likewise accomplish their mission as their wheels returned to the skies where they rested with others in their home which was high above the Earth."

"She who was the wife of Lot, because of her disobedience, did turn around and gaze upon the destruction. She was turned into what appeared to be the salt of the land and the deadly destructive dust that clung over the Earth did indeed cause her life to cease. The smoke and vapor from the cities rose higher and higher as the cities were laid waste in the wilderness on the plains of Zoar that morning."

Frank Potter was a member of Inner Circle of Dr. Frank group/Melchizedek

"The Stranger at The Pentagon" book written by Pastor Frank E. Stranges is just the beginning. The many wonderful truths in the book "Outwitting Tomorrow" are only the tip of the iceberg. Val Thor an Elohim or "Created Being" whose home is INSIDE Venus Planet the leader of the Solar Councils mission to earth. He was directly commissioned by Sananda-Yehoshua The Christ to oversee the planetary redemption plans to liberate earth and to make the people of earth aware that we are not alone in the universe.

Valiant Thor also has spoken to the United Nations on several occasions. Val has worked with the governments of the world to offer them interplanetary cultural exchange which would allow earth to advance in terms of technology. The governments or Cabal refused his offer of assistance to earth many years ago because it would threaten their positions of power and make our financial systems obsolete. Open contact would bring in free energy and advanced healing putting the pharmaceutical industries of sickness as well as the oil and electrical companies out of business as well.

The Stranger at The Pentagon. He met Dr. Frank Stranges at the pentagon in 1957 and began a long association which has been the source of a tremendous volume of spiritual information that Dr. Frank faithfully revealed to the world over his 61 year ministry. Dr. Frank was an earthly member of the council of 12. This council was comprised of 6 space family members and 6 earthly counterparts. This council met regularly and discussed the plans and actions of how to administer humanity into the realization we are not alone on earth and we are responsible for our own spiritual awareness.

Dr Frank was given many lessons on the true history of the earth. He was also taken to Venus several times and to the inner earth agarthan network where he actually saw unicorns, mastadons and other dinosaurs including the famous Sasquatch. Commander Thor introduced him to large benevolent beings from 9-14 feet tall. Dr Frank was chosen by Val to share the revelations of the Dead Sea Scrolls which have been hidden from humanity by the Jewish authorities.

He was privileged to meet the Ascended master Yehoshua the Christ on several occasions and you hear details of these astounding encounters. He was able to view holograms of earths ancient history on special "History Coins" which projected the records of the Akashic right before his eyes. He shares the truth of the star of Bethlehem and When Moses met the Burning Bush. He shares the true eyewitness details of the Last Supper. You will learned who killed both Kennedy's and the location of the 12 Victor class spaceships which encircle the earth in their mission to oversee and protect the earth from hostile forces.

www.acoustichealth.com/robertoffer.htm

Frank Stranges journey to the Interior planet of Venus with Val. Thor in 1990s.

1) Here is a picture of Valiant Thor Victor One space ship.
www.imdb.com/title/tt2645374/?ref_=ttpl_pl_tt

2) Valiant Thor Victor One Space ship blueprint

d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/668543/pictures/full/20130219104902-Victor_One_and_its_Blueprint1.jpg?1361299746

~~ Dr. Frank Stranges Journeyed/visited to the Interior Planet Venus on Victor One space ship of Commander Valiant Thor in 1990s.

A spacecraft named Victor One is made ready for a journey through space. The people on board look forward to a visit to their home planet. The visitors also look forward with great anticipation to the trip. The Commander gives the word. Vice Commander Teel has already programmed the onboard computer with the proper calculations that will transport everyone to the planet Venus. Many sides of Victor One are suddenly transparent as people are seated comfortably observing the events that follow.

The ship rises slowly at first, and heads for the blue sky above leaving Lake Mead disappearing from sight far below. Of course, this represents a nightmare to any United States Air Force pilots who might be cruising in the area at that time. A nightmare would result and a decision must be made whether to be bogged down with reports which must be filed, should they elect to report this sighting. Or, should they simply totally ignore the sighting and go on their way wondering in their own minds as to the reality of the craft from another world?

Space:

As Victor One picks up speed, the pilot, who is operating the controls with his mind, maintains a precise course for the distant planet. The truth is that his mind must remain on piloting the ship. To allow anything else to enter his mind would indeed throw the ship completely off course. The journey is rather brief as the ship travels through the darkness. The stars in the vast distance testify of the wonder of it all. One could elect to view vast distances through the onboard equipment designed for that specific purpose. Communication is established with the planet as the ship draws closer to the opening in the northern portion of Venus. It then plunges downward through the deadly methane gases surrounding Venus. The temperatures have been calculated to be over 800°F. Victor One dives through the opening with no difficulty.

Arriving the Interior planet Venus:

Upon landing, Victor One is made secure. Coming down the ramp, all smiles, is the Commander followed by his officers and visitors. Warm greetings are expressed and accompanied by hugs and kisses. It is almost like a homecoming event. Everyone is happy and joyous. The temperature is about 72°. The Central Sun is shielded by a protective covering, which prevents severe exposure. The buildings are lighted with multiple colors. Vehicles small and large are cruising through the air. They are surrounded by a medium force field that prevents them from colliding against each other.

We are invited to a special meeting followed by a banquet. Needless to say, our friends from space — especially Vice Commander Donn — have a healthy appetite. We sit comfortably at a large round table and are waited upon by young men and women who have requested this privilege to serve the Commander and his friends. The table is colorfully decorated with beautiful flowers, some of which turned color when touched by human hands. It appears that much planning was exercised in making our visit, one to be long remembered.

The Building:

The buildings consist of offices as well as dwelling places. The parliament buildings are completely surrounded by fountains of colorful water. There are also a number of waterfalls that dot the area. The tallest building, is the Government Seat where the Council of Twelve rules with Love and Peace. Waterfalls and many colorful fountains also surround it. Not too many vehicles are parked in the area, only those that are marked by the official seal of the Government.

We enjoy the pleasure of meeting the various members of the Council of which Commander Valiant Thor is a member. The Supreme Head of the Council is dressed in a robe bearing the colors of Gold and Purple with a bit of Red and White. It is truly a sight to behold. The remaining members of the Council also appear in full dress colors celebrating our visit. The other buildings, which are dwelling places, represent a series of apartments. Another section of the City is dotted with beautiful two and three-bedroom homes. A body of reflective water touches almost all of them.

The Commander Thor’s house is appointed with a lake directly in front with a small stream running along two sides of his home. The rear of the home is equipped with a fireplace and beautiful garden area in which is found a medium-size Meditation Garden. This is one of the most famous resting spots appreciated especially by Dr. Lee also takes great delight in this particular area of the house.

Their Daily Lives:

Inasmuch as the Venusians only require about one or two hours sleep per twenty four hours, they have much time for relaxation, sports, companionship with neighbors, and of course, shopping. Whenever a special meeting is called, they all attend expecting wonderful information to be shared with them. Their work consists of a few hours either spent at their respective offices or else in other Government activities. There are no police or fire departments required. They teach and train their children at home. There are times, however, when the central education office will broadcast into the homes with special lessons for children of all ages.

Those in charge of government offices are occupied with certain responsibilities, which often include the participation and cooperation of their families. They all enjoy such activities as concerts, picnics, lectures (from visitors as well as their own people), movies, etc. The fauna and flora of the planet testify of the greatness and colorful imagination of the Divine Creator. The colors of the plants and flowers along with the many waterways are deep and rich, also warm and inviting. This is one planet that has been truly blessed in every manner of the word.

We Must Now Leave:

Following several meetings with the Council of Twelve, the Commander has issued the word that we must return to our home planet. Of course, this is most difficult to do. However, we all have loved ones, along with responsibilities that must be attended to on Earth. With the knowledge of the possibility of a return trip, we reluctantly return to Victor One for the journey home following another series of warm hugs and kisses. Upon boarding the craft, we look back at the smiling faces of the Venusians knowing full well that this visit will not soon be forgotten. We assume our seats, relax and return home. Victor One rises through the narrow passageway at the top of the planet and we head for home. I do hope and pray that you had enjoyed his brief trip to the planet Venus. Your comments are always welcome.

© Dr. Frank E. Stranges


1) VERY interesting Radio interview Corey Goode/American Secret Program for over 20 years in 1980s the REAL Captain Kirk of Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise, the amazing David Wilcox who has 180 IQ, and the beautiful Jenney Mccarthy! Walberg 2/20/20

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tMxBnWpac&ab_channel=JennyMcCarthyTV

2) Corey Goode/Whistle blower on the U.S. Secret Space Program 11/12/20

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpQNqMEVqrg&ab_channel=JennyMcCarthyTV

[nathan]

(Part 12) Christ sent His Holy Venusian angels from Interior planet Commander Valiant, Donn Thor and those like them to Help, Save and making an announcement of the 2nd Coming of the Creator God and King of kings.

One of the people who it has been my/Frank E. Stranges pleasure to meet personally is Harley A. Byrd - a person who knows a lot about Valiant Thor (a space man living here on Earth). Here are some of his statements in regard to Valiant Thor.

"During the winter of 1956-57, the Washington, D.C. area was extremely cold, but it was a good feeling to be working in a high security position in the Pentagon. I lived only a short distance away in Georgetown, the old section of the Nation's Capital. Senator J.F. Kennedy lived on "O" Street just a block away from our house on Prospect.

During a successful tour with the U.S. Naval Ceremonial Honor Guard, we had met with astronauts Glen, Cooper, Wally Sherrar, who were the first wave of successful space travelers. Also we had visited the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier numerous times. It seemed like every time a visiting dignitary came to Washington, they lay a wreath at the tomb.

We had met the Queen of England several times at the airport, as these were some of the duties I performed as a young officer in the Navy. After carrying the 2-Star flag at the funeral of my late uncle, Rear Admiral Richard E. Byrd, I was recommended for a security clearance and was granted a Top Secret Clearance after a lengthy six-month background study (B1 complete 1957).

After being transferred to the Chief of Naval Information (CHINFO), I worked in the Security Clearance section before being indoctrinated into the branch office of the Air Force called PROJECT BLUE BOOK. It was a joint service office; that is, two Marines, two Army, two Navy and three Air Force officers.

The work was routine, opening incoming mail, sorting out what was called actual sightings as opposed to many fake UFO photos. We also acted as a Public Information Office (PIO), much like a public relations office. Every publisher's dream was to get the real low down on the UFO situation, which was suppressed by the group that dictated national policy on the UFO matter.

In mid March, 1957, we received an urgent message from the Alexandria Police Department. The message indicated that two of their on-duty police officers had picked up an alien who had landed some 14 miles south of Pentagon Boulevard, and the occupant was transported to the Pentagon to meet with the Under Secretary of Defense and then shuttled underground to meet with President Eisenhower and Vice President Richard Nixon. The meeting lasted for nearly an hour and then, the alien visitor was put on

VIP status and was shuttled back to the Pentagon where he spent the night in the Army reception office on the first floor near the concourse. This alien's name was Valiant Thor.

Commander James was on duty at the Security Clearance and Review for the branch officer of the Project Blue Book. He oversaw the meeting through official channels and reported the landing and meeting of the "space emissary", as he was labeled by the Department of Defense, to a governing group of high military officials including Secretary of Defense F.F. Forestall and other scientific men of which there were twelve. They in turn made recommendations to the President and Cabinet members, the CIA, FBI, NSA, and so on.

The landing of Valiant Thor was perhaps the first documented landing of a human-type alien by military officials. He contacted an individual in the Pentagon who was an advocate of the UFO alien situation. "Nancy Warren" in turn contacted a minister, who was also a private investigator and theologian, a Dr. Frank E. Stranges, who then met with this individual. Dr. Stranges had been a guest speaker at the National Evangelistic Center for two weeks.

Val Thor landed in Alexandria and met with the President to discuss the world's problems and offer advice and counsel on how to deal with and eliminate them. He indicated to Mr. Eisenhower that the world was in a precarious situation and that if the world continued to proceed on a war footing - it would cause an economic imbalance throughout the world. Val Thor stayed on Earth until March 16, 1960, and then disembarked to his home planet Venus. He indicated that his race of people lived and dwelled underground and that many of the planets throughout the universe sustain life in this same manner.

He also mentioned the waves of aliens who would land around the world to help with the Earth's seemingly insurmountable problems. He stated that a group from a distant planetary system would be coming to give aid and data to help the Earth's progress. Val Thor spoke of Christ's presence in the universe and that it was heartwarming to see Christ's advanced teaching continuing.

This visitation at the Pentagon marks perhaps a new era in knowledge, wisdom and understanding on our planet.

Harley Andrew Byrd
- Nephew/grandson to the late Rear Admiral Richard E. Byrd, United States Navy

Nathan: Here is Harley Andrew Byrd testimony on LIVE the Art Bell Radio show Harley Byrd Interview

October 19th, 1995 On this page you will find various postings to the Hollow Earth list about the interview with Harley Byrd by Art Bell on his radio show which was broadcast, Thursday evening, October 19th. Harley Byrd claims to be Admiral Byrd's grandson.

I recall in a UFO magazine in California, seeing a listing for Harley Byrd and his interest in UFOs and the Hollow Earth. From there as Art got progressively more and more freaked out Harley went on to tell about the mysterious death of his father, his family last seeing him as he left the family home on his way to address a National Geographic Society group on certain aspects of *the story* ... how he was found a few days later in a warehouse dead, seemingly having suffered dehydration and malnourishment ?!!

www.v-j-enterprises.com/byrdgson.html

Richard Evelyn Byrd III was Harley Byrd's father.

Richard Evelyn Byrd III (February 19, 1920 – c. October 3, 1988) was a United States naval officer, Antarctic explorer, and the son of Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd.

Early life[edit]

Richard Evelyn Byrd III (usually referred to as Richard E. Byrd, Jr.) was born on February 19, 1920[1] to famed naval aviator and explorer Richard Evelyn Byrd Jr. and his wife, Marie Donaldson Ames. The younger Richard was a graduate of Milton Academy and Harvard College.[2]

Military career[edit]

During World War II he was commissioned an ensign in the Naval Reserve on April 6, 1942 and was promoted to lieutenant (junior grade) on January 1, 1944. He was promoted to lieutenant by the war's end and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant commander in the Naval Reserve after the war. He accompanied his father on Operation Highjump to explore Antarctica in 1946.

Personal life[edit]

In 1948, he married Emily Saltonstall (d. 2006), the daughter of longtime Massachusetts Senator Leverett Saltonstall. They divorced in 1960. He had five children and six grandchildren. He worked as a financial advisor with Morgan Stanley.

Death[edit]

He died on or about October 3, 1988, at the age of 68. His body was found in a warehouse in Baltimore, Maryland. He had gone missing on September 13, 1988, after being placed on a train in Boston bound for Washington, D.C. Byrd was supposed to attend a National Geographic Society event honoring the 100th anniversary of his father's birth, but never arrived.[2]The cause of his death was dehydration and malnutrition which resulted from Alzheimer's disease.[3] He was buried, near his father Ricard E. Byrd the Admiral, in Arlington National Cemetery.[1][4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Evelyn_Byrd_III

~~ Nathan: Harley Byrd's father is Richard E. Byrd III and his father was Richard E. Byrd the Admiral... It seems Harley Byrd is the grandson of Richard E. Byrd the Admiral. It is incorrect to say Harley Byrd is the Nephew to Admiral Richard E. Byrd. He is the grandson to Admiral Richard E. Byrd.


When Did Some Space People First Visit Earth.

When Frank Stranges talked to Val Thor at the Pentagon in 1959 he found out the people from Venus came and visited Earth many thousands of years ago. Val explained it like this:

There had been occasions which presented a dilemma to both the "observed" as well as the "observer". These included several pilots being "beamed" into the ship in order to save their lives. This was a far cry from the first incidents of men throwing rocks in an attempt to repel the ship. It was during 1945 that the Earth was surrounded by 100 ships in order to protect the fragile atmosphere which surrounds it.

A chain atomic reaction could easily have resulted because of the separation of the elements of the air. Earth could have been destroyed thus creating many problems , a ripple effect so to speak, throughout the universe. After reporting the observations of various voyages, several recommendations were made. The first was that an aerial display be performed in order to provide evidence of the physical existence of life, as it is known here, on other planets in the solar system. This happened during president Truman's time.

Newspaper reported the occurrence complete with details of "the chase". What they didn't report was that the UFO's were not visible below the planes, which had been sent up...they were only visible to those on the ground. The second recommendation was for physical contact with world leaders, beginning with the United States.

~~ The First Meeting

March 16, 1957, in Alexandria, Virginia, one of the finest leaders of the planet Venus, operating under the direction of the Central Control and who had been chosen to make the contact as well as direct the project, landed his craft and was met by two police officers, weapons drawn. A thought transference quickly convinced them that he meant no harm and he was ushered into the back seat of their patrol car.

After crossing over into Washington, D.C., they were met by the secretary of Defense along with six of his staff members. Soon police from every conceivable district and agency had joined in, all trying to claim their right to escort him to President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Through his own version of the power of positive thinking, he was to dismiss them all and soon passed through the security posts followed by an Air Force Captain.


~~ Vice President Nixon Meets Man From Space.

There is a book in the Calif. Library System which states that our former president, Mr. Richard M. Nixon, once carried on a conversation with a man from space. I wonder what he would say about the information stated in the book? Here is the information; … At that moment, another gentleman rushed into the room. It turned out to be Vice President Richard Nixon. He appeared to Val to be very sharp, quick-witted, with fixed, eyes and an amazing aptitude toward speed and proficiency. "My name is Valiant," he said as the Vice President thrust his hand without hesitation.

"You have certainly caused a stir...for an out of Towner." The Vice President smiled as he continued, "Of course, we are not totally convinced of anything just yet. But suffice it to say we are checking and double checking everything you say and do. When Sergeant Young from Alexandria radioed in and stated that you had just landed in a flying saucer, we though," he continued, "Sergeant Young had flipped. Say, were you in on that UFO flap over Washington? You certainly had us all in a dither, if you were."

1952 UFO/12 fly over Washington capital

www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HCEm-g1TY&ab_channel=HISTORY

After assuring them that this planet had been under close scrutiny for hundreds of years before the 1945 bomb blast and with his special letter still in the slightly quivering hand of the President, he was requested to follow the Secret Service back the way they had come.. to the Pentagon and into a beautifully furnished apartment where he would spend the next three years. Fortunately, he was prepared for such a lengthy visit and kept in constant communication with the starship. There were many occasions during which he teleported himself in and out of those quarters often exercising "trans-imagery" to cause the security guards to visualize his face on a nonexistent I.D. badge.

~~ Photos Taken in New Jersey UFO convention 4/1957 so, Dr. Frank Stranges would want to meet Valiant Thor in Person at the Pentagon in 1959.

Soon after his arrival, together with three members of his crew, he joined a "convention" in the back yard of the home of Mr. Howard Menger in High Bridge, New Jersey. The month was April, 1957. A certain group of individuals who were interested in UFOs were meeting that day. Val and his crew members, Donn, Jill and Tanyia, had changed into the same type of clothing worn by their Earth friends. The meeting was very interesting and these people were on the right track. He was dismayed to learn the undignified manner in which these people were treated by the press.

Nevertheless, these people were pursuing their beliefs and it was good. A curious young photographer, August C. Roberts, snapped several pictures, thinking he was doing so without Val's knowledge. The photographer seemed to be greatly troubled when he attempted to talk to him. Yet, it was those very photographs which were to bring me together with this unusual man on that cold December day.

Holding the message from the High Council in his hand, the President stated that Val's offer to help the human family would upset the economy of the United States and could plunge her into the abyss of chaos. In brief, he politely told Val that the people of this planet were not ready to cope with such conditions as would come into existence if the recommendations of this unearthly visitor were put into action. Nevertheless, he was invited to assist a number of scientists who were out working on medical projects directly associated with the space sciences.

~~ The Spaceman's Offer.

One might wonder why you late President Ike didn't take the offer that was given to us for help by the people from Venus. Here are some of the reasons why he didn't take them up on the offer for help. His last meeting with the President did not reap any lasting results. He wanted to let the world know of Val's pro- posed plan, but the Secretary of Defense, the head of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Military Chiefs of Staff were opposed to his suggestion.

The President attempted to effect a joint meeting before the General Assembly of the United Nations. But this plan too was rejected. He was informed that the U.N. would receive a special "press release" in the form of a memorandum to the Secretary General no later than February, 1966. These leaders of the U.S. Government argued long into the night, fearing that if the people of this nation learned of the plan Val was offering, they might choose to follow him instead of them. When a man feels that his personal peace and tranquility may be threatened, the human reaction is always that of swift self-preservation. At one point, the Vice President Richard Nixon insisted that the "pressure boys" allow the President make the choice. He was vetoed without even a chance complete his statements.

World conditions were not growing any better. Much international pressure was being brought to bear upon the administration. They fought diligently and enforced rigid regulations with stiff penalties for revealing Val's presence. Even a major newscaster who inadvertently learned of his visit through one of his paid informants was silenced by none other than the Central Intelligence Agency, which has consistently disclaimed all knowledge concerning UFOs. Meanwhile, they maintain secret files that could actually prove the existence of intelligent life in the universe beyond all doubt.

The Majestic-12 men/rulers of U.S. governments in United States didn't want Valiant Thor's presence to be made known to the world so, he asked "Nancy Warren" who worked in the Pentagon to invite Dr. Frank Stranges to be one of his important contacts in 1959 to spread the information of his Arrival and purpose as Christ's ambassador on earth; announcing the 2nd coming of Christ

Pastor Frank E. Stranges testimony of meeting Valiant Thor from Interior Venus planet at the Pentagon 1959. 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzhTqh1z_U&ab_channel=livingselfsufficient


The morning of March 15, 1960 saw Val meeting with "Nancy Warren" who would continue to work inside the Pentagon and be one of his contacts in the Washington, D.C. area. She would continue communication with others who would become part of his Earth contacts. There are still to this day many adversaries to human freedom.

These parasites have imbedded themselves in all phases of human society and will never be exposed except by extraterrestrial intervention. There are confused individuals who have perfected a saucer-type aircraft. Some of these are the result of an attempt by some to institute a master race. Remnants of this group still exist.

These craft which they designed are still seen from time to time in areas of South America where some of those involved in the original plans still reside. These should not be confused with e spacecraft originating from other worlds or those coming from the interior of this planet. Nor should the occupants of craft originating from other worlds be confused with those "evil messengers" who do not originate from Earth but were cast INTO it after the first "war" ever recorded.

~~ UFO On The Water.

It has been stated in the past that Val Thor has a space craft that is on the water of Lake Mead near Las Vegas. Here is some information about that UFO:

"Then I saw it. An actual, saucer-shaped vehicle was sit- ting on the water. I noticed a strange phenomena. The waves were gently rocking a power boat tied to the rough mooring, causing the boat to rise and fall. However, I noticed that the space craft DID NOT MOVE. I was to be informed later that the ship was equipped with a pencil-fine beam that when fixed on any solid object kept the ship from moving even one degree from that fixed position.

As we neared the ship, it glisten in the light of the sun that was beautifully setting, rapidly. We sailed close to the craft with the motor cut off. Then an aperture opened, revealing two smiling faces. One man and one woman greeted me by name, took my hand, lifted me into the ship and then reached down for Val. A short time later, the small power-craft was also raised aboard and stowed in a compartment where a much larger power craft was also seen.

My first impression was one of great exhilaration mingled with joy and excitement. I had read from time to time true accounts that had changed the lives of other UFO researchers and investigators. I have read many books that carefully outlined the experiences of those who had experienced actual space contact. But now it was different. It was happening to me. I remembered how my colleagues in the Christian ministry looked with disdain upon anyone who would dare relate incidents about "space people", "space vehicles" and such. But now I found myself caring less what anyone would possibly think of me because of my own experiences. I was there!"

~~ Their ships

The space craft that Val Thor has on Lake Mead is parked in a certain place. Here is some information about it: Parked near the shore of the western-most reach of Lake Mead, east of Las Vegas, Nevada, is VICTOR ONE, a space- craft from an extraterrestrial culture in which the name Commander Valiant Thor is prominent. This is the craft which he commands and uses as his "home" on Earth. VICTOR ONE is northwest of Hoover Dam, southeast of Nellis Air Force Base, northeast of the town of Henderson, Nevada, and south of the Gypsum Plant. As of early December, 1988, it was just south of Las Vegas Wash about a mile northeast of the junction of Highways 147 and 166. It can move about.

VICTOR ONE has been in this vicinity for eleven years. There are other Victor Class spacecraft which have been observing Earth for thousands of years. Several thousand people of Earth know of VICTOR ONE... approximately 2000 are U.S. Government officials currently in office.

A limited number of people of Earth have visited VICTOR ONE, including several scientists. No government officials have ever visited VICTOR ONE. The "Victor Class" Sector A space craft of the Victor Class is a 300-foot diameter discus, twenty-two feet high at the rim, increasing to ninety- seven feet on the axis. The permanent crew is approximately 200. Its audio-visual-laser-type camera can select and pick up any person's actions and words as well as record them, all this up to a distance of 1200 miles from the spacecraft.

There are presently about 450 persons under surveillance by VICTOR ONE. Only 20% are of a positive nature. The rest present some kind of threat to the planet. Approximately 103 victor Class spacecraft are on or near the surface of the Earth, active between some 287 locations The first Victor Class ship visited Earth nearly 6,000 years ago. When Albert Einstein's four papers of technical development first appeared in 1905, the need for close scrutiny increased.

Deployment reached the present level of 103 in 1981 during the peak threat of nuclear war. All of e Victor Class ships were carefully constructed on board the Starship. There is a level compartment on the very bottom of the Starship where these ships are constructed and housed until they are dispatched. The crews are carefully chosen with the ranking officers being those who are considered seasoned to command such a craft. The design of the Victor Class ships is constant. There are no variations. There are other scout ships that are smaller (such as the one which Val used to go to Alexandria, Virginia and visit the Pentagon).

These have a capacity of one, two, three, four, six, eight or ten persons. All of these are also constructed of the same basic material as the Victor Class ships. The shapes vary. As a mater of fact they have been built in every shape known to man. A mini-class ship with an elongated configuration in shape of a torpedo is used to transport supplies. These are those which have been seen coming out of the sides of mountains in California, Nevada and Arizona. Bases inside these mountain areas house these craft as well. You may have heard some of the stories the Indians tell of these bases. All of the Victor Class ships have the capability of interplanetary travel if and when it's necessary.

~~ Location of the Ships

The 287 locations of the Victor Series ships by land masses, oceans or countries are as follows:

North & South Pacific Ocean...........38
Japan.................................................29
USA (48 States)....................................21
North & South Atlantic Ocean................18

USSR....17
China & Mongolia...17
India, Afghanistan through Viet Nam....17

Middle East.... 17
Africa & Madagascar.....17
Europe.... 15
Indian Ocean.... 13

Philippines & Indonesian Islands....11
Australia & New Zealand.... 9
South America.... 8

Scandinavia....7
Canada.... 6
Korea....5

Arctic Ocean....4
Greenland & Iceland....3

Central America....2
Antarctica....2
Alaska....1

Others (due to vagueness of boundaries).... 10

The total number of crew on VICTOR ONE, as previously mentioned, is 200. With Valiant Thor as Commander, there are four crew members who serve in the capacity of Vice Commander. These include Donn, Thonn, Teel and the Medical Officer who is known as "Doc". These commanders have been chosen to serve until further advised.

The rest of the compliment are those from the home planet Venus who have elected to serve under the direct command of Commander Val Thor. From time to time, however, there are those from other systems who volunteer to serve on VICTOR ONE for short periods to time about three Earth months. This is done so that those of the crew members who wish to return home for a time may do so without disrupting the vital functions of the ship. Remember, life is not the same on their planets as it is here on Earth. No person or job is looked upon as any more or less important than any other person or job.

www.galactic.to/rune/valienthor.html

(Part II) Valiant, Donn Thor purpose coming to earth

HIS PURPOSE IN COMING:

He stated that he came in order to help mankind return to the Lord. He spoke in positive terms . . . always with a smile on his face. He said God was displeased with the fact that mankind is farther away from Him than ever before, but that there is still a good chance for mankind to find salvation if he looks for it in the right place.

He also stated that he had been here for three (3) years and is due to depart on March 16, 1960. Claiming that he would not use force to speak with men in authority in America, but would be happy to consult with them at their invitation, he further stated that thus far only a few men in Washington knew of his existence in the Pentagon and few leaders have availed themselves of his help and advice during the past three years. The time of his departure was getting near at hand as yet he felt there was still so much to do. But his purpose would not be fulfilled by forced.

HIS HOME PLANET:

When I asked him where he was from, he replied, "I AM FROM THE PLANET THAT IS CALLED VENUS. (remark that the contact persons in those days didn't explain multi-dimensionality - that the "physical" life plane or life-carrying-frequency - of Venus is what we here call the astral level. Later they have explained that they evaluated the earth people not yet ready or ripe for this knowledge then.)

" I asked him how many visitors we had here on Earth from Venus. He said, "THERE ARE PRESENTLY SEVENTY-SEVEN OF US WALKING AMONG YOU IN THE UNITED STATES. WE ARE CONSTANTLY COMING AND GOING". He also said that there is life on many planets of which people on earth know nothing - there are more solar systems for which man has not even given God credit…( and much more was said)

As I left his presence, I still maintained a warmth in my heart. I began to wonder who would believe me if I ever repeated this strange encounter with a man from another planet. I first considered not repeating this strange story. But the more I thought about it, and the more I prayed about it, the more I felt that it would bring a great blessing to those who would hear and read it. I also thought of the possibility of being involved with the Government, but I decided to brush away all suppositions and fears and tell the whole truth, because Jesus said, "YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE".

This inter-planetary traveler possessed a wealth of knowledge, not only about science and about God, but also about me. He commended me on my book, "FLYING SAUCERAMA". He stated that it could not have been written except with Heavenly guidance. He said that soon it would be read throughout the whole wide world.

Therefore, reader, you have the whole story. Read it over carefully and see what hidden message you may find herein. May God bless and guide you into all TRUTHS.

galactic.to/rune/valthor2.html

[nathan]

1) WHO is Valiant Thor and Donn Thor? Where do they come from? Why did they come to earth?

~~ Testimony of Valiant Thor about Jesus the Almighty God who created him.

Jesus Christ sent His Holy Venusians human looking Angels from Interior Venus planet and other planets to assist mankind/Homo Sapiens in this Star Wars battle From the book Stranger/E.T. at the Pentagon by Dr. Frank E. Stranges: Almighty God/Christ created Valiant Thor. The race of "Quello" created by God before Adam and Eve race.

Valiant Thor describes a race made by "God Almighty" before human's appeared on earth. According to Valiant Thor they were called the "Quello". They were destroyed by God because of Satan deceived them in destroying the Earth, that we are doing now! There are Nuclear plants, like Fukushima, on the East coast too. They are located by water. Why? Because they use ocean water to keep the heating rods cool.

In the second part Valiant Thor was looking over us here on earth having a visitation with God and Jesus the Almighty. Valiant eventually was allowed to leave Venus and come here to warn the powers that be, that if we don't stop warring and using nuclear bombs we will end up being destroyed. In March 16, 1957-1960 landed in Alexandria Virginia, one of the finest leaders of the Planet Venus, met president Eisenhower and Vice president Nixon. Valiant Thor stayed at the Pentagon for 3 years.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpelnBNPFYg

Phil Schneider showed a picture of Valiant Thor, whom he met one time. A picture in 1943 showing Thor sitting next to his father and other USA scientists on the "Philadelphia Experiment" USS El Eldridge escort ship conference room. Valiant and Donn Thor, have been working for the Pentagon 58 yrs since 1937. The picture was taken in 1943. Valiant Thor arrived and work with U.S. gov't in 1930s.

Valiant Thor, has about 1200 I.Q. Speak over 100 human languages/aliens. Valiant Thor benevolent Being arrived/worked for US Navy in 1937-38. Life span 490 yrs.  One oversize heart, One giant lung, blood vessels are bigger, copper oxide blood like an octopus, his brain larger than humans.

At 3:31 Al Bielek said a picture of Don Thor (Valiant Thor brother! ) sitting next to Phil Schneider's father Oscar. Valiant Thor and his brother Don Thor have been HELPING the US gov't since 1937 for more than 58 yrs.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXMR_1koxQY

~~ Valiant Thor "Created Being" from Interior planet of Venus arrived in 1957-60 at the Pentagon said to Pastor/Dr. Frank Stranges, " There is LIFE on MANY other Planets, that the people of this earth know nothing about. There are presently 77 of us/Venusians walking among you in the United States. We are constantly coming and going. "

We (Pastor Frank and Valiant Thor) discussed the merits of Jesus Christ ... how He gave His Life freely... so that men could enjoy the benefits of eternal life. I questioned him about a Bible on Venus and he assured me that a personal unbroken fellowship with the "Author" did not necessitate the printing of a "book". He found it amusing that many theologians attempt to discredit both Jesus Christ and The Bible. The very God many have said is "dead" continues to lavish them with all good things.

Perhaps they will, in time, permit the spark of Divine Light to again illuminate their troubled hearts. In answer to my question of what he thought of Jesus Christ, Valiant said, "I know that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega of yours and everyone else faith. He today has assumed His rightful position as the ruler of the universe and is preparing a place and a time for all who are called by His Name to ascend far above the clouds to where His Power and Authority shall never again be disputed.

There are more solar systems for which man has not even given God credit. There are many beings that have never transgressed the perfect laws of God. Man does not possess the right to condemn the whole of God's creation because he himself has broken the perfect laws of God through disobedience."

www.galactic-server.net/rune/valthor2.html

~~ Frank Potter was a member of Inner Circle of Dr. Frank group/Melchizedek

"The Stranger at The Pentagon" book written by Pastor Frank E. Stranges is just the beginning. The many wonderful truths in the book "Outwitting Tomorrow" are only the tip of the iceberg. Val Thor an Elohim or "Created Being" whose home is on Venus is the leader of the Solar Councils mission to earth. He was directly commissioned by Sananda-Yehoshua The Christ to oversee the planetary redemption plans to liberate earth an to make the people of earth aware that we are not alone in the universe.

Valiant Thor also has spoken to the United Nations on several occasions. Val has worked with the governments of the world to offer them interplanetary cultural exchange which would allow earth to advance in terms of technology. The governments or Cabal refused his offer of assistance to earth many years ago because it would threaten their positions of power and make our financial systems obsolete. Open contact would bring in free energy and advanced healing putting the pharmaceutical industries of sickness as well as the oil and electrical companies out of business as well.

The Stranger at The Pentagon. He met Dr. Frank Stranges at the pentagon in 1957 and began a long association which has been the source of a tremendous volume of spiritual information that Dr. Frank faithfully revealed to the world over his 61 year ministry. Dr. Frank was an earthly member of the council of 12. This council was comprised of 6 space family members and 6 earthly counterparts. This council met regularly and discussed the plans and actions of how to administer humanity into the realization we are not alone on earth and we are responsible for our own spiritual awareness.

Dr Frank was given many lessons on the true history of the earth. He was also taken to Venus several times and to the inner earth agarthan network where he actually saw unicorns, mastadons and other dinosaurs including the famous Sasquatch. Commander Thor introduced him to large benevolent beings from 9-14 feet tall. Dr Frank was chosen by Val to share the revelations of the Dead Sea Scrolls which have been hidden from humanity by the Jewish authorities.

He was privileged to meet the Ascended master Yehoshua the Christ on several occasions and you hear details of these astounding encounters. He was able to view holograms of earths ancient history on special "History Coins" which projected the records of the Akashic right before his eyes. He shares the truth of the star of Bethlehem and When Moses met the Burning Bush. He shares the true eyewitness details of the Last Supper. You will learned who killed both Kennedy's and the location of the 12 Victor class spaceships which encircle the earth in their mission to oversee and protect the earth from hostile forces.

www.acoustichealth.com/robertoffer.htm

~~ Published on Jun 15, 2015 Interview with Craig Campobasso how he came to make a short film and the future film of Stranger/ET Valiant Thor at the Pentagon

Craig Campobasso is producer of the short film "Stranger at the Pentagon," which is an adaptation of a book with the same title by the Reverend Frank Stranges. Craig’s film shows the dramatic circumstances surrounding the 1957 appearance of a highly evolved human looking extraterrestrial who made contact with the Eisenhower administration.

Valiant Thor, from the interior of Venus, became a VIP guest who stayed at the Pentagon for three years where he discussed a proposal to help humanity prepare join the galactic community. After the Eisenhower administration declined Thor’s proposal for First Contact, he sought out private individuals who might assist in realizing some of its less controversial aspects, from the perspective of the administration.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3u4MU2LaY8&t;=931s (Part I)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-gJxnQoJ3k&t;=452s (Part II)

Do you know who Commander Val Valiant Thor is? Well he is a real human looking being, a more perfectly created human with a brilliant telepathic mind who can speak hundreds of languages. He has no navel and no fingerprints. He has a 1200 IQ! He commands a Star ship of 200 crew from Interior planet of Venus. He doesn't age. In 1957 he arrived 14 miles outside of Washington DC in his ship with 200 crew on board and he alone was brought to the Pentagon by the police who understood telepathically that this was a profound request! He had a meeting with Eisenhower & later Nixon.

He presented them with a book on how to create a beautiful future for us all on the planet! His main thing was "Stop messing with Nuclear power and all will be well!" He was a guest at the Pentagon on and off for 3 years and left discouraged & distraught because he saw there was no hope for the warmongering US Gov't who wanted to build bombs & bullets with uranium from the nuclear plants. Imagine a year after being here Nixon gave him his book back saying the stage is set as they, against all logic were going with nuclear power, Imagine the audacity, of Nixon treating a deeply well meaning off world guest like this, that could have saved the world many the millions of deaths over war!

Valiant Thor IQ is 1200 or above. What is the average IQ of a human?

IQ is a number meant to measure people cognitive abilities (intelligence) in relation to their age group. An I.Q between 90 and 110 is considered average; over 120, superior. Roughly 68% of the population has an IQ between 85 and 115. The average range between 70 and 130, and represents about 95% of the population.

boston.edgemedianetwork.com/technology/news/205229/galaxy_count_may_now_top_2_trillion_across_universe_

Jeff Rense & Frank Chille Radio interview - Mysterious Case Of Valiant Thor

(At 8:03- 8:26) A beautiful picture of Valiant Thor, Don Thor (in the middle) and Jill. Story of Valiant Thor met president Eisenhower 1957. Val has no finger prints. He is able to see through walls. Val came here to save mankind from Nuclear wars extinction. Val is one of the leaders of Venusians, less violent people. (At 9:16) Val said his race of people lived within Venus, inside the planet NOT on the surface which is too HOT. Val Thor met Dr. stranges in 1959, Donn Thor could walk through walls. Dr. stranges traveled often with Val/Donn on their space ship to his planet.

(At 13:17---) Val had no palms and finger prints. They are mark of mankind, Valiant/Venusians don't have fingers/palms prints. Val is created Being and race of people created by God. Val told Dr. Stranges that The Venusians never stop walking with the Lord/Jesus. Val came bring solution to overcome disease, poverty, more efficient energy.

The dark shadow gov't which control Eisenhower administration/Every administration refused his offer, all they want to know is how his ship operate/Technology for military use. Val came with 4 phrases programs on earth. 1) To contact all world leaders and to let them know the existence of beings from other planets

2) To contact all religious leaders and introduce themselves to them.

3) To contact of ALL of university, colleges with this information.

4) To raise the public awareness of Beings from other worlds because it does not come through media channel.

www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUDGv5lznlcbgOeH5-pqo5MQ&v;=Zq21hb4y89Y&feature;=player_embedded

[verna]

Part 14. Is this how TMB is communicating now? 😜🤣😢

[BobWilliston]

Jun 4, 2022 10:27:38 GMT -5 verna said:

Part 14. Is this how TMB is communicating now? 😜🤣😢

At least the 2x2's pay rent when they preach in someone else's halls.

[nathan]

(part II) Valiant and Donn Thor

1) Picture of Valiant Thor in New Jersey, 1957 at Howard Menger's UFO conference backyard 

www.pinterest.com.au/pin/26106872833567365/

2) Picture of Valiant Thor on the right, Donn Thor on the left, Jill the blond lady, Tanyia the black hair lady

www.pinterest.com.au/pin/347832771228350737/

The Dead Sea Scrolls revealed by Valiant Thor

1) Dr. Stranges' lecture/speech of his meeting with Valiant Thor at the Pentagon in 1959. Listen at 49:00 where Dr. Frank talks about Valiant Thor taken him to his space ship Victor One, "Dr. Frank which part of the earth history would you like to see ?" He replied, " The Dead Sea Scrolls!" a disk was played. VERY important and informative video in May 2007, at the above conference in Kona, Hawaii. Dr. Frank passed away in 2008.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47O2-_eRc

Dr. Frank E. Stranges - His Articles on Space, Science and Dead Sea Scrolls teaching from Valiant Thor from the planet Venus.

For many years Dr. Stranges has been receiving information from his in-depth study of sacred texts (including the Dead Sea Scrolls) and from our Venusian neighbors. These teachings are shared with members of the Inner Circle and subscribers of his monthly newsletter, The Inter-Space Link.

Many topics are explored including universal spirituality, the Five-Fold Star of Life earth mysteries (including the hollow earth), shadow governments, the true information found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the philosophy of inter-planetary and inter-galactic societies. As the time of the great Spiritual Awakening is now upon us, Dr. Stranges has asked 'The Nextage Light Mission' to be the official planetary web site to reveal these teachings of spirit and space to the world.

www.nextagemission.com/OSF/FS_FrankStranges_HisArticles.html

Star Teachings by Dr. Frank E. Stranges and Commander Valiant Thor

Biography of Dr. Frank E. Stranges

Biography of Commander Valiant Thor 

About Commander Valiant Thor (Part 1)
About Commander Valiant Thor (Part 2)

The White Forces Revealed

Rules of Conduct

A Point of UFO Information
A Brief Visit to the Interior of Planet Earth

The Advanced Progressive Curve of Spiritual Development
Christmas and the Mystery of The Star
Exploring The Hollow Earth

Light and Darkness
No More Karma by Valiant Thor

The Dead Sea Scrolls
The Great "I AM" (The Dead Sea Scrolls) 
Ten Dimensions of Existence

The Ice Canopy
A Journey to Venus (Stella)
The Magic Door (by Valiant Thor)

The Rainbow Cities
A Revelation of the Various Races Throughout the Universe

The Watchers
Where Will You Go From Here?

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_StarTeachings_Index.html

His Spacecraft Victor One
(Click image to view full size)

Victor One is a Venusian spacecraft and is the flagship of Commander Valiant Thor of Venus. This craft is a 300-foot diameter discus, 22 feet high at the rim increasing to 97 feet on the axis. Its at-rest Earth weight is 1170 tons. The permanent crew is 187. In a hundredth of a second, the craft can be rendered invisible. When visible, it is tangible and would be recognized as a familiar object. When invisible it is intangible, transparent to any object, people, vehicles, weapons and aircraft moving through it.

There are 103 Victor Class ships, all identical. They are on or near the surface of Earth, active between some 287 locations. Dr. Frank Stranges visited Victor One on a regular basis.

NOTE: This information and blueprint of Victor One are taken from Dr. Frank Stranges' files. You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly keep this article and image intact. Thank you.

Valiant Thor Biography

Valiant Thor is an immortal who resides inside the planet Venus. He is the commander of Victor One, a spaceship presently stationed on the ground near Lake Mead, Nevada, and he heads the Council of Twelve in Venus.

In March of 1957 Valiant Thor landed in a small craft in Alexandria, Virginia and subsequently met with President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Vice-President Richard Nixon and Chiefs of Staff. The Commander was offered a three-year furnished apartment at the Pentagon.

The purpose of Valiant Thor’s visit was to help the earth’s family to lead lives based on spiritual principles which ensure wholesome progress in all fields of endeavor including health, economics, scientific and technological advancement, justice, education and governance. Although his aid was refused by the American government, to this day Valiant Thor and his complement continue to give assistance to the people of Earth.

In December 1959 Dr. Stranges met Commander Valiant Thor and they enjoyed a fine friendship until Dr. Stranges’ passing in November 2008.

Details of this encounter can be found in Dr. Frank E. Stranges’ book Stranger at the Pentagon. The book is also available in Spanish under the title : Un Extraterrestre en el Pentágono.

Dr. Stranges also wrote a two-part in-depth description of Valiant Thor which can be found by clicking here: Part One and Part Two

A short film entitled Stranger at the Pentagon has recently been made.

Information, Prayers and Teachings

Before his passing, Dr. Stranges requested that this web site carry the teachings, prayers and information given to humanity by Valiant Thor. The book Outwitting Tomorrow originally written by Commander Thor and re-introduced some years ago, contains many of teachings including The Ring of Fire Prayers, available in several languages, and The Teaching of the Five-Pointed Star of Life.

Dr. Stranges wrote a monthly newsletter entitled The Interspace Link where he shared news with subscribers on space and spirituality.

Valiant Thor would often share his wisdom and knowledge in this newsletter. Dr. Stranges also lead bi-annual meetings of the Inner Circle where members received written information on Dr. Stranges’ many meetings with Commander Valiant Thor and his people. Information on these teachings can be found here.

Institute for Spiritual Unfoldment and Interworld Studies (ISUIS)
www.nextagemission.com

www.nextagemission.com/OSF/FS_BioValiantThor_EN.html

THE COMMANDER, WHO IS “THE STRANGER AT THE PENTAGON”

If you will recall in my book Stranger at the Pentagon, the Commander, during his three years at the Pentagon, displayed many of his powers and abilities to President Dwight Eisenhower, Vice President Richard Nixon along with members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Also to a few ungodly individuals who were hell-bent to destroy him.

(Note: The Majestic-12 secret shadow rulers of U.S. government did NOT want Valiant Thor to have any outsider contacts; they kept him locked up in the Pentagon apartment underground. Valiant Thor teleported out of the Pentagon, Donn Thor, Jill and Tanyia attended Howard Menger UFO conference in 1957.

It was at the UFO conference the Venusians angels allowed an Air force photographer took their pictures. He showed Valiant Thor, Donn Thor, Jill and Tanja pictures to Dr. Frank Stranges. Valiant Thor invited Frank Stranges to the Pentagon to meet him in person. Frank Stranges would be Valiant Thor one of the human ambassadors on earth.)

He dematerialized from the Pentagon, and then materialized in the back yard of Howard Menger, who was conducting a UFO Seminar, many miles away in High Bridge, New Jersey 1957. He was also joined by Vice Commander Donn, Jill and Tanyia from Victor One.

Pictures taken at Howard Menger's backyard UFO conference in 1957 of the Holy Guardian human looking angels Valiant Thor on the right, Donn Thor on the left, Jill the third blond lady, and Tanyia the black hair woman.

www.pinterest.com.au/pin/347832771228350737/

However, while at the Pentagon, the medics failed to penetrate his skin while attempting to draw blood from the Commander. The needle broke several times. Also, in a vain effort to extract certain information from the Commander, regarding advanced weaponry, he was severely beaten at the hands of certain Air Force Hot Shots. Commander Val fell to the floor and dematerialized before their unbelieving eyes. Of course, they had a very difficult time describing the incident to their respective superiors.

HEALING IS ALSO ONE OF THE COMMANDER’S ABILITIES

Further evidence of his powers occurred while he was being escorted by Air it Force armed guards through one of the corridors. They passed by another Air Force Officer coming from the opposite direction. He then stopped, turned around, called this other Officer by name, laid his hands on the surprised officer’s stomach, raised his eyes to the ceiling and prayed a brief prayer.

This was an Air Force pilot who was grounded because of a severe case of stomach ulcers. In brief, this officer was completely healed on the spot. Many years later, this same officer, then retired, appeared along with his wife at one of my UFO Conferences at a Church in Southern California. He stepped forward, identified himself and then related to everyone present how the Commander laid hands on him only to completely heal him of stomach ulcers. The Officer testified he had not suffered from that day forward.

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_ValiantThor.html

About Commander Valiant Thor (Part 1)

Over a period of time, I have received many requests for additional information regarding Commander Valiant Thor. This article is therefore dedicated to information which has not yet been released to all quarters. You may in fact have heard some of this before. However, there is much information regarding the Commander which has never been released before.

If you have not read my book Stranger at the Pentagon you should obtain a copy as soon as possible, because it will give you a wonderful insight regarding the Commander as well as his mission to this planet Earth.

A CREATED BEING

Commander Valiant Thor was created (as were the Angels) eons before time was configured. He is indeed a very wise man and has thereby been duly endowed with abilities far beyond that of human imagination. He stands about six feet tall and to this day he weighs about one hundred and eighty-five pounds. His hair is brown and wavy. His eyes are also brown and his overall complexion is rather tanned.

The Commander has a unique sense of humor, which certainly distinguishes him from a host of many other “space people.” He is a very unusual man in many respects. Yet while standing in his presence, one is suddenly made to feel quite comfortable. He is a man of many spiritual gifts which have distinguished him to the point where he was duly appointed as one of the Council of Twelve on his home planet Venus.

UNIVERSALLY LOVED

Whenever he is dispatched to other parts of the Universe, he is always greeted as a man of God. A man who is looked upon with tremendous love and respect. He is often called upon to assist those of other worlds in making certain decisions which directly affect the entire population. His conduct is always above reproach in every manner whatsoever.

IN GREAT DEMAND

The truth of this matter lies in the fact that he is in demand because of his unique ability to spiritually discern and thereby solve many problems. Such a man whose reputation precedes him is loved and admired for his dedication and love of Almighty God, under whose direct orders he operates.

A POINT OF FURTHER INTEREST

It may interest you to discover that he had indeed communicated with a number of members of the Inner Circle, the Interspace link subscribers, members of the Royal Order of Melchizedek and others during the past years. A number of you have written to him in the past with certain problems and he has been kind enough to reply to your requests.

However, over a period of time, certain people have also sent in some rather foolish requests. Such as, what color toilet tissues should I use, how can I find a space woman (or man) to marry, please grant me a good tip on the stock market, and I will give Dr. Stranges 10%, and other such ridiculous questions and meaningless propositions. Of course, he did not dignify such questions with a reply.

OTHER AMAZING GIFTS AND ABILITIES

Commander Valiant Thor has the ability to appear and disappear at will. He also possesses the ability to disassemble the molecular structure of his body and reassemble himself at a distant point. This is the manner in which he vanished from the Pentagon, passing through the door of his apartment in which he was confined and carefully guarded by two Air Force Military Policeman.

He then joined his brother, Vice Commander Donn, Jill, Tanja who then appeared on the front lawn of the home of Howard Menger, in High Bridge, New Jersey 1957. They then attended a lawn UFO lecture, where every one there saw them. However, few of them knew or even suspected that these people were from another world. My friend, the late August C. Roberts took many pictures of them, which were later published in my book Stranger at the Pentagon.

One of the witnesses at that particular lecture was another friend of mine, Mr. James Moseley of Key West, Florida. Oddly enough, over the years, quite a number of people have recognized him when he has attended lectures, both in the United States and abroad.

ADDITIONAL ABILITIES

Inasmuch as he has been gifted with many other abilities, he has successfully utilized these to assist mankind on this planet Earth. He is able to speak and communicate in every language and dialect (including sign language) known to mankind today. In this manner, he has successfully won the confidence of people, worldwide.

Among these, the children whom he has literally picked up off of the garbage dumps of major cities of the world. These are the children who have no parents, no place to sleep or proper food for their frail bodies. They are sickly, weak, undernourished and unwanted by the multitudes. He has approached these poor children, both boys and girls, spoke to them in their own language or dialect, won their competence and in many cases literally carried them in his loving arms to the waiting Victor Class Space Craft.

A WARM LOVING RECEPTION FOR THE CHILDREN

Once on board, the children are warmly and lovingly caressed by other members of the crew who care for them before they are brought into the homes and waiting arms of the newly adoptive parents. He also possesses the ability of looking directly into your heart and mind in order to fully ascertain and appreciate your inner needs. This is a trait also practiced with great love by our Master, Jesus Christ, with whom the Commander enjoys constant fellowship and communion.

Commander Valiant Thor

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_AboutValiantThor1.html

(PART TWO)

ACTUAL ACCOUNT OF ABUSE AT THE PENTAGON

Commander Valiant Thor was created (as were the Angels) eons before time was configured. He is indeed a very wise man and has thereby been duly endowed with abilities far beyond that of human imagination. He stands about six feet tall and to this day he weighs about one hundred and eighty-five pounds. His hair is brown and wavy. His eyes are also brown and his overall complexion is rather tanned.

During his Pentagon years, the military as well as those in political power attempted everything in their power to break him down. They used measures of questioning, abuse and coercion in order to gain information regarding military weapons of destruction that could be placed in orbit in space as a potential threat against every nation on Earth.

They spat into his face, threw hot water on his body and threw several chairs at him while he was seated. Those in charge of the interrogation actually punched him violently; smacking his face with such force that he fell to the floor on more than one occasion. All he did was smile back at them while refusing to yield such information. At one point they attempted to penetrate his skin with an injection of a certain chemical which they thought would render him into a state of cooperation.

THE AWESOME “NEEDLE”

Of course, as when they first attempted to do so during his initial medical examination, the needlepoint broke as they attempted to break the skin. Finally, the Commander rose to his feet, breaking the shackles which bound him to his chair, stood tall before them and said “I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS FOOLISHNESS. IF ANY ONE OF YOU TOUCHES ME AGAIN, IT WILL BE YOUR LAST MOVE ON THIS PLANET EARTH.”

Without any other word spoken, the interrogators quietly backed away as he, to the astonishment of every one present, vanished before their very eyes. Needless to say, they all departed from that room talking to themselves.

THE ATTITUDE OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE VICE PRESIDENT.

During this time of abuse, neither the President of the United States Dwight D. Eisenhower nor Vice President Richard M. Nixon had any knowledge of what was transpiring with a Commander behind closed doors. When they found out, believe me when I state that there was hell to pay. Of course, all of this abuse, which took place over a long period of time, if not phase Commander one single bit. He felt no pain whatsoever but was duly amused at the idiotic efforts.

THE COMMANDER DID ASSIST OUR GOVERNMENT IN SPACE MEDICINE

As a matter of record, the Commander did grant our Government information which greatly assisted our space program in the field of space medicine. He continued residence at his Pentagon apartment until the morning of his departure, which was at 8 a.m. on the morning of the 16th of March 1960.

Both the President and the Vice President had hoped beyond hope that they would have accepted the assistance as well as a helpful information which the Commander had offered them, three years prior. Mr. Nixon felt deeply at that time, that he should do all within his power to overturn the evil elements which were occupying high positions in the United States Government at that particular time. History alone will reveal the results of his efforts.

TODAY, IN THIS 21ST CENTURY, THE COMMANDER IS STILL ACTIVE

The Commander maintains his position as Leader of the Council of Twelve on earth as well as his position as a member of the Council of Twelve in the planet Venus. He continues to do all within his power to render such assistance, as he is permitted to render, to the people of this planet.

There are times when he is summoned to render such helpful assistance to those who reside on the inner plane of this planet. You will be learning more of that particular activity in time to come. However, I sincerely trust that these few lines of pertinent information regarding the Commander have given you a better, keener sense of this most amazing and wonderful individual.

Commander Valiant Thor

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_AboutValiantThor2.html

[nathan]

 The 2nd coming of Christ; 1000 years reign on earth and the Universe; the final battle of Armageddon between Satan's army Vs. Christ's army; the Final Judgment Day; Celebration of the Marriage Super of the Lamb/Christ; New earth and heaven where God, Christ and Holy Spirit will dwell with the good angels, God's children from earth and the Universe live in harmony and love for eternity.

Warnings of the Last Days From God | Christian Short Film "The Days of Noah Have Come"

1,683,843 views• Jul 5, 2017

Here are the WAKE up signs! the last 15 years.... Here are the WAKE up signs! the last 15 years.... listen to a TRUE story happened in 2008 a horrific great disaster at 14 min. the modern day one of the most beautiful city of Sodom and Gomorrah in China destroyed twice with and earthquake and the next year wit a great flood within two years! Warning this will take place when Jesus returns like in the days of Noah great world wide flood.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0uyh2IH72w

Amir Tsarfati: The Coming Prince Christ/God 1st coming to earth as a man Jesus
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZNNGcWjQE

Where is the Promise of Jesus Christ coming? Amazing!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyhP0fFz8o&list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb&index=23

Amir Tsarfati: The Day Approaching
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdCP1suihY

Amir Tsarfati: The Second Coming of Jesus as the Christ King of kings to rule the earth
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NXzhMjIUMM

Amir Tsarfati: The Millennial Kingdom. Humans believers appear to receive the rewards/responsibilities before the judgment seat of Christ/Jesus during the 1000 yrs reign

www.youtube.com/watch?v=scoG0YrgWbs

87 more interesting amazing videos topics from Amir Tsarfati

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLFF5VZl4c7iEtzXu3koZ7dFC-Kh9VHb

[nathan]

(Part III) Is Jesus coming soon?

Soon is a relative term. If you are microwaving popcorn, soon means within the next three minutes. If you are awaiting the birth of a child, soon can mean anything up to nine months. So when we ask, “Is Jesus coming soon?” we have to qualify the meaning of soon.

Jesus Himself said that He is coming soon: “He who testifies to these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming soon’” (Revelation 22:20). And then John adds these words: “Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.” John’s book was penned nearly two thousand years ago, which leads many people to wonder what Jesus meant by “soon.”

The Greek word tachu, which is translated “soon” or “quickly,” means “without unnecessary delay.” It does not mean “immediately.” The same word is used in other places in the New Testament, but, interestingly, it is used most often by Jesus in the book of Revelation (Revelation 2:16; 3:11; 11:14; 22:7, 12, and 20). The meaning seems to be that events have been set in motion that will usher in His arrival without any unnecessary delay. Everything is moving along according to God’s timetable.

Peter reassures us that God is not dragging His feet concerning prophetic events. God’s timing is perfect: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). In this light we may understand that Jesus is coming “soon” in that God’s plan is advancing and is only delayed to allow for all the elect to be saved (Romans 8:29; Ephesians 1:5)—a necessary postponement.

The Bible teaches that Jesus’ return for His church is imminent, which means the rapture could happen at any moment. The apostles seem to have believed that Jesus would come back in their lifetimes. They referred often to the “last days” (1 Peter 1:20; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Hebrews 1:2) and urged believers to be ready. It appears that Jesus also intended for us to believe in His imminent return, because He often urged His followers to “be ready” (Luke 12:40; 21:34–36; Mark 13:33).

Because no one has known or can predict exactly when He is coming again (see Matthew 24:36), we should live in the expectancy that He may come any moment. That seems to be Jesus’ point in not being more specific. He wants every generation to live with the conscious awareness that the Lord may suddenly appear and we will have to give an accounting of the way He finds us (Luke 12:38). To answer the question, “Is Jesus coming soon?” we say, “Yes, He will come without unnecessary delay.”

www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-coming-soon.html

Will there be a great apostasy during the end times?

The Bible indicates that there will be a great apostasy during the end times. The “great apostasy” is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The KJV calls it the “falling away,” while the NIV and ESV call it “the rebellion.” And that’s what an apostasy is: a rebellion, an abandonment of the truth. The end times will include a wholesale rejection of God’s revelation, a further “falling away” of an already fallen world.

The occasion of Paul’s writing to the Thessalonians was to correct some of the errors concerning the end times that the believers had heard from false teachers. Among the falsehoods was that “the day of the Lord has already come” (2 Thessalonians 2:2). The Christians in Thessalonica were afraid that Jesus had already come, they had missed the rapture, and they were now in the tribulation. Paul had already explained the rapture to them in his first letter (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). Paul writes his second letter to assure them that, contrary to what they had heard, and despite the persecution they were enduring, the “day of Christ” had not yet come.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul makes it clear that the day of the Lord, a time of worldwide judgment (Isaiah 13:6; Obadiah 1:15), will not transpire until two things happen. First, the falling away, or great apostasy, must occur. Second, the “man of lawlessness” must be revealed, he who is called the “son of perdition,” also known as the Antichrist. Once this person makes himself known, the end times will indeed have come. Numerous speculations about the identity of the man of sin, beginning in the first century, have included Caligula, Caius Caesar, Mohammed, Napoleon, and any number of Roman popes. None of them were the Antichrist.

The man of lawlessness, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, is the one who “will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” Clearly, this has not yet happened; no one since Paul’s time has set himself up as God in the Jewish temple. Two thousand years have passed since the epistle was written, and the “day of the Lord” has not yet come. Paul assures us that it will not come until the falling away comes first.

The Greek word translated “rebellion” or “falling away” in verse 3 is apostasia, from which we get the English word apostasy. It refers to a general defection from the true God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. Every age has its defectors, but the falling away at the end times will be complete and worldwide. The whole planet will be in rebellion against God and His Christ. Every coup requires a leader, and into this global apostasy will step the Antichrist. We believe this takes place after the church has been raptured from the earth.

Jesus warned the disciples concerning the final days in Matthew 24:10–12: “At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.” These are the characteristics of the great apostasy of the end times.

www.gotquestions.org/great-apostasy.html


I Peter 4:17-19 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Jude 13-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Paul encourages Timothy to be diligent to present himself as a workman approved by God who would not need to be ashamed because he was rightly dividing or accurately handling the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) Jesus said in Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.

Jesus said this in Matthew 6: 10-12 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

God said in Isa 54:17 “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.”


2000 years ago, Paul foretold about a GREAT fallen away to happen before Jesus 2nd Coming. I believe that happened in 1950-2022... Thanks, to Cherie K. and anti-2x2s books, and websites are out there are fulfilling the Great fallen away! caused many 2x2s to LEAVE the fellowship believing the Truth and Way of Jesus started by a man William Irvine in 1897 made many to turn from God and others to join the false churches.

II Thess 2:1-12 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Grant]

1 You're still posting fake Dead Sea Scrolls I see, which Frank Stranges claims God revealed them to him although he has never seen the real scrolls. Frank Stranges also claims he went to Venus and saw Jesus there. He's a fake like his claims.

2 Why do you spend so much time bashing the 2x2s and a well respected elder elected by the church and use openingact, an atheist and satirist who no one takes seriously, to back your posts up. Be honest enough and leave, like those you call apostates have done.

[rudyw]

Hi Nathan,
I have a question.
If the 2x2s are mistaken about the Trinity, and if most workers are wrong by denying the Trinity, does their denial of the they become apostate?
I don’t understand why you are sticking around the 2x2 church if you’re so absorbed with the Trinity.
I joined the 2x2s for two reasons: 1) they denied the Trinity (I never believed it and never will); 2) I liked the house fellowship.
I no longer profess in meeting, but I still hold to the Father as being God, and Jesus as the Son of God; and I still believe in the home fellowship pattern.
If you’re so dogmatic in the RC doctrine of the Trinity, why do you stick around the meetings? I’m curious.

[Dan]

Jun 6, 2022 22:48:36 GMT -5 rudyw said:

Hi Nathan,
I have a question.
If the 2x2s are mistaken about the Trinity, and if most workers are wrong by denying the Trinity, does their denial of the they become apostate?
I don’t understand why you are sticking around the 2x2 church if you’re so absorbed with the Trinity.
I joined the 2x2s for two reasons: 1) they denied the Trinity (I never believed it and never will); 2) I liked the house fellowship.
I no longer profess in meeting, but I still hold to the Father as being God, and Jesus as the Son of God; and I still believe in the home fellowship pattern.
If you’re so dogmatic in the RC doctrine of the Trinity, why do you stick around the meetings? I’m curious.

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think its unusual for a person not to agree 100% with a church, they can still be on the same page with the ministry and +90% of what they teach and preach.

If a group believes that salvation only comes through Christ, then what label they put on him is irrelevant. Some just recognize Jesus as God the Son, while others think he was an ordinary man who found favor with God. 

[curlywurlysammagee]

For anyone into camel meat this is quite interesting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCeqO0g-sM

[nathan]

Jun 7, 2022 1:48:24 GMT -5 curlywurlysammagee said:

The Ice Canopy - “A long time ago in the book of Genesis chapter 1 when the sky was green”

There was a time on Earth long ago when one could gaze into the skies above and see nothing but the beautiful, soft colors of the firmament. These colors consisted of a combination of soft blue and green. At that time, our planet was completely surrounded by what was called the ICE CANOPY. Neither the Earth, nor mankind was subject to the ravages of the sun as we know them today. The vegetation was watered from beneath. This normally occurred during the evening hours which resulted in the blessings of the dew in the morning.

These were the days when fellowship between mankind and of the Creator was unbroken. The days when both men and God walked in the cool of the day speaking to one another, planning for the future and also living in constant fellowship with those of other worlds, who were created, as was Adam, without spot or blemish. It was during those beautiful times when the entire creation was able to speak the same language. It was actually called the language of the gods.

If you could possibly imagine listening to the words and music of those who existed at the beginning of time, you would realize that mankind today has lost the blessings from which he originated.

In today’s society, we strain to see with our third eye, and we strain to listen with our third ear. However, from time to time, some of us are permitted to view and hear the blessings from the past with the full knowledge that the time will soon come when all of these rich blessings will be restored to the human family.

The “ice canopy” completely and enveloped our planet. All of the species of sea life found in it quite humorous insomuch as they were able not only to swim in the seas of the planet but also to travel across the skies of water. From time to time, with the method known only to the Creator as well as to the creatures of the sea, they were able to travel to and from the “ice canopy” at will.

Mankind, at that time, thoroughly enjoyed life on this planet. Those from the interior likewise enjoyed fellowship with those on the surface as well as fellowship with those from other planets. The truth of the matter lies in the fact that time on this Earth was the truly filled with love, peace, joy and happiness. Every creature on and in the Earth as well as in the heavens dwelled together in harmony.

Following the creation of Adam and Eve, there is no record on this planet that will reveal the precise time span of what was termed as the Age of Innocence.

According to one of the reports recorded in that Dead Sea Scrolls (not yet located) both Adam and Eve did in fact enjoy the pleasures of visiting other planets. At first, because of the “ice canopy,” they were not even aware that there were such masses as other planets. However, they did suspect that the Creation of Almighty God could not possibly be confined to this sphere called Earth. They made many friends on these other worlds. Likewise, these friends often came to this planet for a visit. They often exchanged gifts. They sat and broke bread, together with leaders of other worlds.

According to Uniah, there are still many created beings on and in other spheres who remember both Adam and Eve. There are those who have visited here in the far, distant, dim past and who still remember the days when the planet Earth was completely surrounded by an “ice canopy.” They remember the beautiful colors of the skies as viewed from the surface of the planet. They often speak of the times when they were permitted to fly directly through the “ice canopy” at certain points that were designated by Adam himself.

According to the ancient records, both Adam and Eve were considered as lesser gods by those from other worlds. They were considered as the apples of the eye of the Divine Creator. The records also show that both of them were in reality fun people. They loved to put on feasts and invited many from other worlds. They came in droves and brought guests, music, food and other blessings that were thoroughly enjoyed by Adam and Eve. On numerous occasions, the Lord Himself in His physical form graced the feast with His presence and never failed to Bless everyone in attendance.

The records also portray the fact that God laughed, saying, played musical instruments and otherwise entered into their celebrations creating a feeling of joy that was unequaled in the history of the human race on this planet. Inasmuch as several of them were people of high authority, they were obligated to return to their home planets in order to rule in the manner for which they were appointed by the High Council.

Nevertheless, regardless of their high positions, they had a truly wonderful time during their many visits with Adam and Eve.

If you will carefully note, I had used the term “people” throughout this account. The reason being that they ARE people. They look and walk as we do. They are not as those dreadful creatures that are seen in many science fiction motion pictures. The reason is most significant. Almighty God, the Creator of the universe, is a God of Order. Divine Order if you please. He created mankind on this sphere in His own image and likeness. Why then should He depart from His pattern of order and create other life forms that would throw a scare into Boris Karloff??

Because he is a God of order, we can expect His system of Divine Order to be observed and practiced throughout the mass universe... worlds without end.

Adam and Eve lived in the very presence of Divine order. Then, something occurred. Something that reverberated and sent signals throughout the universe. An alarm was sounded. Planetary observers watched carefully. They wonder if The Almighty would again wipe the slate clean and start all over again as He did following the days of Quello.

The universe, literally held its breath. Angel stood side-by-side with other created beings. Another segment of the hidden Dead Sea Scrolls reveals that what ever the Creator decided to do, they would stand with Him in total unison realizing full well that He indeed knew what He was doing. It was as though the entire creation groaned because of the fact that Lucifer, who was once a trusted archangel and the most beautiful of creations would dare disobey the Creator.

When the decision was finally made, both Adam and Eve were stripped of their divinity, their perfection and their positions. They all gazed upon this scene, as Adam looked toward the Tree of Life. Immediately, the Creator raised His right hand and signaled several Angels with swords of fire to stand guard over the entrance into the Garden of Eden.

The results were quite severe. If Adam and Eve could have made their way to the Tree of Life, they would be alive today. However, by Divine command, their way was blocked. Mankind lost practically all of its high standing among the others in the Universe. The truth of the matter is that even some of our friends were privy to this awesome display of disobedience and judgment. Many from space felt very sorry for both Adam and Eve. Several of them even volunteered to take their places, but were denied.

The word spread from planet to planet. The planet Earth would never be the same. Mankind took some giant strides for the next several years, leading to the event that was to change the complexion of this planet for many eons. Then, following a series of events, mankind ventured far and wide and in his travels throughout the Earth, he gradually lost contact and communication with the Divine Creator.

Then one day, the rumor among the planets was that mankind on the planet Earth was about to suffer another blow. Not as a result of the anger of a Righteous Creator, but rather because of the constant defiance of mankind of the perfect laws of God. There were constant warnings. There was repeated defiance. Those from other worlds, alerted their own people to observe the series of events leading up to the fateful day.

Then the countdown went into effect. Noah and his family, seemingly the only obedient ones on the face of the Earth, were busily engaged in the construction of the Ark. When that Creator commanded Noah, to build an Ark, he did not even know what an Ark was. However, when God gave him instructions, Noah did exactly what he was commanded to do.

Of course, the people of Noah’s generation look upon his efforts with disdain. They mocked him and called him all manner of evil names. Noah warned them that “RAIN “ was going to fall from the skies thus disrupting the “ice canopy.” Of course, that warning fell upon deaf ears, and they mocked him even more than before. The reason? The reason they laughed and mocked Noah was because the word “RAIN” was totally unknown, and it had never “rained” nor was water ever viewed as falling from the skies. Remember that there were no such items as “clouds.”

The biblical record as well as records from other sacred writings and holy books all concur. The Ark was completed. Noah then was seen herding all manner of animals, creeping things, various species of flying creatures and the like. He was leading them aboard this huge boat that was built so far from the nearest river that the entire scene was one of great ridicule.

The onlookers laughed themselves into a frenzy. They looked upon Noah and his family with scorn and disdain. Then, a very strange thing took place. They saw Noah pause briefly and gazed into the “ice canopy” knowing full well that this would be the very last time that he would witness this soft blue-green sky. Then, as he proceeded to walk through the threshold... THE DOOR SLAMMED SHUT BEHIND HIM.

They did not actually witnessed Noah closing the door himself. But, they knew at that point that some force, not Noah, had shut that door. Many of the mocking onlookers turned away and decided to go about their business. Others remained at the scene of this strange craft, which housed animals, birds, creeping things, male and female, standing firmly on the gigantic forms upon which the craft was built.

Without warning, the sky grew unusually dark. They heard sounds emanating from above, which they had never heard before. For the first time in human history WATER BEGAN TO FALL FROM ABOVE. This silence of crackling, thunderous aerial explosions gave way to torrents of water gushing forth from the heavens. Our Bible supplies us with the following graphic description: “the windows of heaven were opened and the fountains of the deep were loosed.”

The loud, almost sacrilegious laughter gave way to uncontrollable screams of fear and disbelief. They ran in every direction. They ran to the hills, utterly disregarding the safety of their own families and friends. They thought that they could escape the rushing, destructive waters by hiding in caves. All of this was to no avail, whatever. Human beings were wiped from off the face of the Earth. The rains continued for forty days and forty nights. Lightning flashed, the Earth did quake, mountains were leveled and others were raised up to new heights.

Thunder clapped throughout every region of the planet Earth. The “ice canopy” was completely destroyed.

At the end of the rain period, Noah reviewed the new skies above. The only opening (window) was fixed on the very top of the ark. Noah saw the new heavens for the very first time. He saw at different sky. Noah was forced to shield his eyes as he saw the Sun, high in the sky. Before the flood, one could look directly up into the face of the skies and not be obligated to protect his eyes against the harmful rays of the sun.

This was indeed a new experience for Noah. He quickly summoned the other members of his family to gaze upon this awesome, strange phenomenon – the Sun in the blue sky above. None of them fully comprehended, nor were able to fully grasp the meaning of this new sight in the morning sky. Then, when the sun finally disappeared, they were met with still another strange and unusual phenomenon – the pale moon, which is called the lesser light, ruling the night. Noah and his family were in for many more surprises as they departed from the Ark several days later.

Those from other worlds viewed this awesome spectacle and communicated with others, speaking in guarded conversation. How the Almighty Creator was planning to go forth and again replenished the planet was still not revealed to them. However, in time, they could easily discern the plans and purpose of the Almighty Creator.

There is much more that could be said. However, I will reserve more on this story until a later date. Suffice it to say that this planet is again standing on the very brink of destruction and the good news is that YOU can make the difference.

You will receive additional information from time to time. Information that has been carefully designed to assist YOU in changing your own life. The big question remains. What will you do with the information that will be directly granted to you, not only by me, but by those from other planets will have been dispatched by The Almighty for the purpose of assisting you?? Think of it my friend, you have the option within your grasp to not only change your own life but also to affect others in such a way that they will bless you for the remaining part of your life on this planet.

I repeat... WHAT WILL YOU DO WITH SUCH INFORMATION??

The article presented here is from a past issue of the monthly newsletter entitled The Interspace Link. You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact.

© Dr. Frank E. Stranges, NICUFO

www.nextagemission.com/ST/ST_IceCanopy.html

[nathan]

Jun 7, 2022 1:04:33 GMT -5 Dan said:

Jun 6, 2022 22:48:36 GMT -5 rudyw said:

Noah's World Wide flood!

[curlywurlysammagee]

Camels not only provide meat but also wool which is used for garments and carpets.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWf0WA8_oM

[BobWilliston]

Jun 7, 2022 1:48:24 GMT -5 curlywurlysammagee said:

For anyone into camel meat this is quite interesting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCeqO0g-sM

I've heard they serve camel stew at convention in the UAE.

[BobWilliston]

Jun 7, 2022 14:47:24 GMT -5 curlywurlysammagee said:

Camels not only provide meat but also wool which is used for garments and carpets.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWf0WA8_oM

In desert countries they kneel on camel mats to pray -- butts up in the air.