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Post by _ on Jul 31, 2007 17:37:39 GMT -5
quote - "Can you name one Worker and/or Friend who was part of your fellowship between the years 1400 and 1895?" Ah ha! A LOADED QUESTION! ;D ;D ;D ;D
RE-QUOTE - " For this reason, the proper response to such a question is not to answer it directly, but to either refuse to answer or to reject the question."no... it's not loaded... you cannot name a Friend and/or Worker between those dates because there were no Friends and/or Workers between those dates.... that's because William Irvine did not start/create/establish the Friends and Worker's fellowship until 1897...
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Post by to bert on Jul 31, 2007 17:44:51 GMT -5
Bert, This is just another example of how weak your arguments are. The example you posted is niether "loaded" nor a "yes/no" question. Example of a loaded question: When did your church begin?
Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two direct answers: 1. Started by God 2. Started by Irish workers This is an objective question. It does not seek either a yes or no answer. It asks for a date. And neither of the sample answers you provided have dates in them. So not only are you unable to recognize the type of question that you posted, you also are unable to provide relevant sample answers. Pay attention folks. This is the best bert can come up with.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2007 17:45:04 GMT -5
We simply don't know because the sort of church we have doesn't advertise itself. We have a 400 year old hymn, which sings, "scare seen, scarce heard, unreckoned, despised, defamed and unknown."
But, personally, I have never said that I belong to a church with an unbroken line of preachers to the first apostles. That is not what we mean by an unchanging Truth.
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Post by ok then on Jul 31, 2007 17:47:19 GMT -5
Then how far back can you trace your line of preachers? Go on. Research your church and let us know.
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Post by to the blind man on Jul 31, 2007 17:53:47 GMT -5
to the blind plagiarist,
Trace your preachers' lineage, nathan. Don't spew that garbage anymore because it doesn't hold any water.
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Jul 31, 2007 17:54:50 GMT -5
There has been 2x2 apostles/workers Itinerant preachers in every generation since the days of Jesus and the apostles. Do you deny this has taken place? Once again, deflect and distort... There being or not being "Itinerant preachers in every generation" is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to how far back bert can trace his line of preachers (the workers). Bert's preachers (the workers) CANNOT be traced back through every generation... But rather only 110 years... Do you deny this?
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Jul 31, 2007 17:57:57 GMT -5
We simply don't know because the sort of church we have doesn't advertise itself. The fellowship not advertising itself is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to being able to trace it back only 110 years... Which was not written by a member of your fellowship... To accept that there were God's followers before the foundation of your fellowship means you accept the Holy Spirit's work in the lives in non-members of your church. are you willing to accept this bert?
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Jul 31, 2007 18:16:05 GMT -5
No, I do not deny William Irvine was preaching the 2x2 Itinerant ministry in 1897-1914 and many early 2x2s workers who followed the same pattern. Yet you deny he established the Friends and Worker's fellowship church... what a foolish position you take nathan... Why are you unable to see that homeless preachers going out in pairs for 1800 years after Jesus was on the cross is totally irrelevant to the Friends and Worker's fellowship being established by William Irvine and only being 110 years old? Of course there might have been homeless preachers in pairs for the since Jesus was on the Cross... SO WHAT? They do not have ANY relation or ANY connection to YOUR FELLOWSHIP! We are talking about THE FRIENDS AND WORKER'S FELLOWSHIP... we are not talking about all homeless preachers going out in pairs for all time... Why can't you see this? It's about the history of the fellowship you preached in... NOTHING MORE!
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Post by holy toledo on Jul 31, 2007 18:16:24 GMT -5
wow...nathan is completely unable to respond without twisting it up.
nathan, read the following paragraph very closely.
NAME THE 2X2 WORKERS WHO PRECEDED WILLIAM IRVINE.
All-caps used just in case you can't see it very well, because you apparently can't see the other things written to you.
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Post by to blind nathan on Jul 31, 2007 19:36:10 GMT -5
nathan,
who was the worker that preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 31, 2007 19:36:39 GMT -5
It really doesn't matter who does/doesn't endorse it who is/is not embarrassed by it, who it helps/hinders blah blah blah..the list could go on endlessly. It's Nathan's site and he has a right to have it. (here we go now with..but he plagerised this that and the other....why do you CARE so much what Nathan does??? Another buttinsky is all....how does Nathan's life affect your own personally??? Seriously!) sheeeeeesh. M.
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Post by to nathan on Jul 31, 2007 19:52:23 GMT -5
nathan,
Name the worker....the person...one name only....the precise person who IMMEDIATELY preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry.
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Post by to nathan on Jul 31, 2007 20:01:46 GMT -5
Nathan,
Name the one worker who immediately preceded William Irvine....IN THE 2X2 MINISTRY.
Large text employed to aid nathan's failing eyesight.
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Post by better yet on Jul 31, 2007 20:02:40 GMT -5
Better yet, name ANY worker who preceded William Irvine....IN THE 2X2 MINISTRY.
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Post by ok on Jul 31, 2007 20:42:53 GMT -5
ok, so you are unable to name any worker who preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry (not any other ministry). You could have said so in the first place. But you didn't. Instead you twisted and squirmed and tried to weasel out of admitting that you cannot name such a person.
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Post by of course on Jul 31, 2007 20:45:23 GMT -5
ok, so you are unable to name any worker who preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry (not any other ministry). You could have said so in the first place. But you didn't. Instead you twisted and squirmed and tried to weasel out of admitting that you cannot name such a person. yes, I read your sidestep the first time you typed it
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Post by correction on Jul 31, 2007 20:46:06 GMT -5
ok, so you are unable to name any worker who preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry (not any other ministry). You could have said so in the first place. But you didn't. Instead you twisted and squirmed and tried to weasel out of admitting that you cannot name such a person. yes, I read your sidestep the first time you typed it correction, this was for nathan. I read nathan's sidestep the first time he posted it.
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Post by to Nate on Jul 31, 2007 22:27:58 GMT -5
Nathan, please get your facts straight before trying to use them as justifications for your imaginations.
There is NO SUCH thing as the Keswick group!!!
And they believe a completely different gospel from WI's so in no way were they ever spiritually or in any other way connected.
I know because I have attended Keswick conventions.
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Post by janet on Jul 31, 2007 22:40:06 GMT -5
A house is just a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get more stuff.
That is why God made it to work with two's- one stays back to watch the stuff. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2007 22:45:37 GMT -5
Interesting idea Nathan, that you approve of the FM workers as part of the apostolic succession that you promote.
One difficult aspect of that is the fact that our workers rejected those workers as false shortly after 1900, no later than 1907. If we came from a false ministry, how can we be the true ministry? Or, if they were the true ministry in the 1890's, what made them false? Or, perhaps they are still the true ministry and ours is false? Or, they are the true ministry and so are we, even though we consider them false today?
The fact remains that evidence shows that WI rejected the FM. It can't surely qualify for being part of the apostolic chain for this reason alone. I suppose one theory could be that the FM was right when Irvine started with them, but went wrong after that and he became the new righteous 2x2 ministry.
Lots of rationalization to be done there to support your theory!
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Post by What Hat on Jul 31, 2007 23:13:27 GMT -5
Shame on God for losing his church and finding it again through WI. Can't imagine
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2007 0:02:50 GMT -5
Interesting idea Nathan, that you approve of the FM workers as part of the apostolic succession that you promote. One difficult aspect of that is the fact that our workers rejected those workers as false shortly after 1900, no later than 1907. If we came from a false ministry, how can we be the true ministry? Or, if they were the true ministry in the 1890's, what made them false? Or, perhaps they are still the true ministry and ours is false? Or, they are the true ministry and so are we, even though we consider them false today? The fact remains that evidence shows that WI rejected the FM. It can't surely qualify for being part of the apostolic chain for this reason alone. I suppose one theory could be that the FM was right when Irvine started with them, but went wrong after that and he became the new righteous 2x2 ministry. Lots of rationalization to be done there to support your theory! Where did I approve Faith Mission? I wrote they (FM) existed before William Irvine. William Irvine, John Long and some of the 2x2 workers were a Faith Mission preachers! I believe they LOST their faith in the Faith Mission group... and depart according to the Faith Mission workers list.
I know from reading historical documents facts! the chain of Vaudois and many of their brothers sisters apostolic 2x2s Itinerant existed for 1800 yrs "BEFORE" John Govan founded his Faith Mission group in 1886 or 88, and William Irivine, John Long, and the 2x2s workers began theirs in 1897. Here is the post of your approval of the FM in the line of apostles nathan. Someone asked you to name the workers before Irvine and you pointed to the Faith Mission. You said it, not me. Today at 7:36pm, Chicken anon. wrote:nathan,
who was the worker that preceded William Irvine in the 2x2 ministry?
VERY simple! I told you already what don't you understand. The Faith Mission group, Keswick groups, Waldenses, Vaudois, the friends of God, Albigenese, Cathars, and many others like them through down the ages.... back to the 12 and 70 apostles then to Jesus Christ Himself as the FOUNDER! or the Chief cornerstone.
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Post by junia on Aug 1, 2007 0:29:05 GMT -5
Nathan said: "Only in eternity will find out which group has the approval of God."
There it is, right there. No wonder Nathan's theology is so mixed up. God doesn't give "approval" based on someone's group association. He saves individuals. Big difference.
Where is the good news, (gospel) in your message?
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Post by to Nate on Aug 1, 2007 0:47:53 GMT -5
Where did I approve Faith Mission? I wrote they (FM) existed before William Irvine. William Irvine, John Long and some of the 2x2 workers were a Faith Mission preachers! I believe they LOST their faith in the Faith Mission group... and depart according to the Faith Mission workers list.Sounds like WI and JL fell away from the truth and invented their own! Interesting how you see it otherwise. I would say they departed from the faith or the doctrine of the Faith Mission which has always been the same from the first days to now. How you can spin a yarn! The Keswick conventions have nothing to do with the Faith Mission Nathan. Please read and discover what it is you are promoting as 2X2 validation. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc06/htm/iii.lxiv.x.htm
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ann
Senior Member
Jesus did NOT say follow people .. He said follow ME!
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Post by ann on Aug 1, 2007 0:49:55 GMT -5
Nathan said: "Only in eternity will find out which group has the approval of God."
Wrong - it won't be a "group" that is right with God - it's an individual person collectively from all areas, walks of life. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It has NOTHING to do with the group. We will be on our own answering to God for our words and the way we lived our lives. There will be NO worker there to be sure you get into heaven! Wake up people, the workers have NO say even though in their egotistical minds they think they do.
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Post by Jasmine on Aug 1, 2007 1:39:30 GMT -5
Not only do no workers approve of Nathan and his website, but no friends do either....
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Post by pre 1897 on Aug 1, 2007 1:46:35 GMT -5
Margaret Isbister went into the work in 1875. That predates WmI
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Post by reality on Aug 1, 2007 1:52:57 GMT -5
Margaret Isbister went into the work in 1875. That predates WmI Likely thousands of people went into the work of the gospel and into the work of ministering to the converted (sometimes two different things) before Irvine and before this Margaret Isbister person. Now the workers' "gospel" is a bit different, which started about 1897. I think the workers' gospel is basically "if you think you are better than your Christian neighbor and want something on which to claim exclusivity we have the ministry for you." That would be "good news" for some.
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