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Post by emanon on Jul 30, 2007 14:48:08 GMT -5
Alot of things that are posted on this message board don't seem very edifying. I'm starving for substance. The attitudes on both sides are discouraging. We still are going to our little Sunday morning meeting where for the most part we are still being fed. But things we are reading in the Bible are not adding up to a system in which we were raised. So my question is now what?? Do we continue to meet with a small group of people that we love, but that is part of something much larger that we were raised in that has proven not to add up to what the Bible says. What about fellowship? When we come to the place where we decide to not attend any meetings at all, what then??? Please help someone!!! Thankyou. Frustrated in the midwest!!
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Post by Will on Jul 30, 2007 14:58:29 GMT -5
I know several ex 2x2s that enjoy fellowship now in settings they previously denounced as "wordly churches". My family regularly attends Sunday church and youth/adult Sunday school/Bible study. There is sincerity there and some awesome students of scripture and Bible history. To be sure there are some who are quite Bible illiterate.
If you go to a church service or Bible study with the intent of finding fault, you will succeed.
However, to assume there is no opportunity for fellowship outside 2x2 meetings is simply the product of years of brainwashing.
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Post by _ on Jul 30, 2007 15:02:13 GMT -5
Have you thought of finding another local fellowship of believers? In the meantime, here is a link in response to your starving for substance... tinyurl.com/2ksjlcGive a few of them a listen... I personally connect better with Dan's messages...
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Post by Try This on Jul 30, 2007 15:11:55 GMT -5
Have you thought about abandoning religion entirely and concentrating on living life? Maybe spend more time with your family on a Sunday morning, take a walk in the country, get the papers and read them over breakfast in bed, stay up late the night before and have a sleep in, take your wife out for brekafast to a nice cafe, pack up the car and go for a drive or maybe go visit an elderly relative and see the smile upon their face? These things will give you substance. Then in the afternoon you can invite your dear old friends round from the fellowship for tea. That way you get the substance in your life and get to continue in fellowship with the people you love. Everyone's a winner!
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Post by ScholarGal on Jul 30, 2007 15:21:13 GMT -5
Network to find people who share your beliefs...
What do I mean by "networking"?
Remember how you find a meeting when you travel or move to another place. You talk to someone who shares your beliefs, and find out when and where they meet.
Think about the people who live and work near you, but don't attend the meetings. Can you identify any that live godly lives in absence of the system? Do you know someone who is always there to lend a helping hand? Talk to these people, ask them about their beliefs.
Ask around about home bible studies, prayer breakfasts, or men's/women's groups that meet on a regular basis. You might find ways to supplement your current fellowship in the meetings.
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 30, 2007 16:02:59 GMT -5
I think it was important to me (when I was in the place you are), to not worry about "where" to fellowship. Instead, work on developing a real and helpful relationship with the LORD! When you've done this, the rest will be much easier - finding a fellowship and examining and possibly adjusting beliefs you have learned over the years. Keep the beliefs that are helpful to your relationship with the LORD and other Christians, and throw the rest right away! Love in Him, Edy
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Post by been there on Jul 30, 2007 16:11:07 GMT -5
First thing is for you to do a study on fellowship so you know exactly what the Bible says.
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Post by now what on Jul 30, 2007 16:46:18 GMT -5
I check in and out of this board occasionally and like you find little of substance here. However I didn't expect there to be. My purpose is to try to understand the mindset of those who have left.
What I have found concerning being fed in the meetings is if I feel a lack of being fed, then to remedy this, I need to become a better feeder of others.
It is kinda like pot lucks, if it seems most are just bringing junk food so I do the same, nothing is improved. But if I start bringing really good well prepared nourishing food, others see my zeal and begin to follow. Our fellowship is like sheep. Many sheep, few shepherds. Many followers, few leaders.
To become a leader, I have to be a servant. Strange, but true. And as one serves completely with a whole heart, others are encouraged and the whole group flourishes.
Give it a try. It works!
Good luck and encouragement in your endeavors.
Ron
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Post by janet on Jul 30, 2007 17:17:22 GMT -5
I find a lot of substance here. It is just a matter of perspective. For some people all dung is to be buried. For other it is valuable and used as fuel to keep thing from freezing in those cold spells. Janet who drinks all sorts of water even that which is sent from michigan to CA,OR,WA and even yes the Down Under ;D
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Post by Stinky on Jul 30, 2007 18:28:23 GMT -5
Alot of things that are posted on this message board don't seem very edifying. I'm starving for substance. The attitudes on both sides are discouraging. We still are going to our little Sunday morning meeting where for the most part we are still being fed. But things we are reading in the Bible are not adding up to a system in which we were raised. So my question is now what?? Do we continue to meet with a small group of people that we love, but that is part of something much larger that we were raised in that has proven not to add up to what the Bible says. What about fellowship? When we come to the place where we decide to not attend any meetings at all, what then??? Please help someone!!! Thankyou. Frustrated in the midwest!! How badly do you want the answer? Jesus was not mentioned in your text. Are you ready to be Born Again? Are you ready to have your world turned upside down? Jesus is ready if you are ready. Go before God in Faith and he will remove the motes from your eyes. People do not do this, his Spirit does this. Seek and you will find. Ask and you shall receive. Put yourself in God's care, not the care of others!
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Post by freespirit on Jul 30, 2007 21:35:39 GMT -5
Alot of things that are posted on this message board don't seem very edifying. I'm starving for substance. The attitudes on both sides are discouraging. We still are going to our little Sunday morning meeting where for the most part we are still being fed. But things we are reading in the Bible are not adding up to a system in which we were raised. So my question is now what?? Do we continue to meet with a small group of people that we love, but that is part of something much larger that we were raised in that has proven not to add up to what the Bible says. What about fellowship? When we come to the place where we decide to not attend any meetings at all, what then??? Please help someone!!! Thankyou. Frustrated in the midwest!! PRAY HARD! You can leave the "system" without leaving the church. ("Church" being a group of people.) But cling tight to God. He is your Rock. I am a member of a group of friends from all different religions... and... "the system" is an issue with EVERY SINGLE one. It's almost as though there is a war to get us to look at the method rather than the Maker. What are your frustrations specifically? Maybe God is giving you instructions. peace, freespirit ETA: sending you a hug
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 31, 2007 1:24:01 GMT -5
First thing is for you to do a study on fellowship so you know exactly what the Bible says. That's a great idea. Reading out loud helps a lot. And listening to others read the Bible helps too. I like to engage in question answer sessions to focus on God and the Bible. For example, Read a chapter and have someone ask you questions based on what is in the chapter. Like reading through Matthew 5 where it talks about who is blessed. Question: Who is blessed. What is theirs? And then read through the chapter again, find the verse, read it outloud and give the answer. The answer should be based on the Bible and not your opinioin. You can actually have friends who love God and help you be accountable. It's a novel concept after being a 2x2. I really enjoy all the benefits of obeying God. I feel sad for the lonely hungry 2x2s who aren't being fed. God loves you and wants you to read the Bible. God bless you. Brad
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Post by Peacemaker on Jul 31, 2007 7:49:07 GMT -5
I find a lot of substance here. It is just a matter of perspective. For some people all dung is to be buried. For other it is valuable and used as fuel to keep thing from freezing in those cold spells. Janet who drinks all sorts of water even that which is sent from michigan to CA,OR,WA and even yes the Down Under ;D Reminds me of something I heard when I lived in the UK. A farm hand went around the district selling manure from a barrow to householders for their gardens. He was approached by a householder one day and asked why he could not find himself a proper job instead of mucking about with smelly manure. The farm hand replied," look mate this may just be smelly manure to you, but to me, it is bread and butter." There is a lesson in there, somewhere.
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Post by Jessi on Jul 31, 2007 19:50:34 GMT -5
Government officials study the real bills so that when a counterfeit bill comes along, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Read God's Holy Word, like you've been doing -- get a good study Bible and read the notes. Study the real thing and the counterfeit will be easy to spot.
Go where Christ is preached and the Name above all names is exalted and glorified. When I first set foot in a "wordly church" with a mind to listen and see what was really worldly about it -- I cried the whole time and then ran out.
It took a few times to get over the fears that I was doing a wrong thing. Once I really started discoursing with Christians about the Bible and asked all my questions and had my firm statements and beliefs stamped out by the Holy Word shown to me -- I couldn't refute what these people were saying as they pointed out Christ in the Word. God opened my heart and my eyes and I understood who Jesus was.
Some in the F&W already know who Jesus is. But they are afraid. Some may lose what they believe is their lifeline. Their trust. Their family and friends. But when they finally take that step out of a false system after hearing the Great Shepherd's voice . . . they will realize that all other loves pale in comparison to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by have it all on Jul 31, 2007 20:06:11 GMT -5
Alot of things that are posted on this message board don't seem very edifying. I'm starving for substance. The attitudes on both sides are discouraging. We still are going to our little Sunday morning meeting where for the most part we are still being fed. But things we are reading in the Bible are not adding up to a system in which we were raised. So my question is now what?? Do we continue to meet with a small group of people that we love, but that is part of something much larger that we were raised in that has proven not to add up to what the Bible says. What about fellowship? When we come to the place where we decide to not attend any meetings at all, what then??? Please help someone!!! Thankyou. Frustrated in the midwest!! It is true that there isn't much substance here. It's too bad really.... if it wasn't such a zoo here, sincere posts like yours could be replied to in a civil and productive way and you wouldn't have to wade through piles of dung to get help. My two cents is that you can "have your cake and eat it too." Continue to meet with your small group, but start supplementing those meetings with other positive religious information. Maybe drop in on other bible studies in your community. You can continue to enjoy your current fellowship AND add more to it as well.
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Post by Brick on Aug 1, 2007 14:56:46 GMT -5
I hate to sound like a fan of Rush Limbaugh, but mega dittos to what freespirit and scholargal said. You have made an important first step by reaching out to others. If you seek, you will soon have a network of friends around the globe to fellowship with. Welcome and good luck.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 1, 2007 15:05:14 GMT -5
you say your being fed in sunday morning meeting. no further questions, your honor, the witness may step down.
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Post by janet on Aug 1, 2007 15:29:42 GMT -5
you say your being fed in sunday morning meeting. no further questions, your honor, the witness may step down. Sunday morning what? ;D Don't you mean Sunday Morning House?
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 1, 2007 17:59:41 GMT -5
[Emanon Wrote] We still are going to our little Sunday morning meeting where for the most part we are still being fed. But things we are reading in the Bible are not adding up to a system in which we were raised. So my question is now what??
The question could more bluntly be put: will you stay in the true Church of Jesus upon the earth, or abandon Jesus, his people, and his Church for the ways of the world, based upon traditions, works, lucre, and the pride of men?
Your immortal soul is at stake, and your choice will ultimately determine your spiritual destiny. Without the Church to nourish you, to guide you into truth, to be present throughout the stages of life (birth, profession, baptism, marriage, sickness, death and burial) and to teach you about scripture, how will you manage to stand? For the Church is the pillar of truth in the earth, and has the same teaching authority as the Bible (though deferring to the Bible in all things).
It is through the Church that Jesus is truly and honestly proclaimed, and his message of sovereign and unlimited grace is applied to our miserable hearts. It is through the Church that we realise that none of our works can save us, but only the perfect life of Christ, clearly presented in the gospel.
Abandoning Jesus and his people for the emptiness of the world, with all its deception and fraud. Friend, have you counted the cost?
"They went out from amongst us because they were not of us."
[Emanon Wrote] Do we continue to meet with a small group of people that we love, but that is part of something much larger that we were raised in that has proven not to add up to what the Bible says. What about fellowship? When we come to the place where we decide to not attend any meetings at all, what then??? Please help someone!!! Thankyou. Frustrated in the midwest!!
What does not "add up" to what the Bible says? And how, friend, can you be sure you have the right interpretation of scripture in absence of the Church, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit that comes through the Church?
Doxology: We thank the LORD always for his Son, Jesus Christ, who is head of the Church. Through the undeserved grace of Jesus we are redeemed, not only from sin, but a futile way of life in the world. We have been freed from false teachers who would teach for commandments the traditions of men. We have been brought nigh to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Calling upon Jesus to accomplish for us that which we could never do for ourselves, we ask God to preserve us in his way unto the end.
(For as it is written: "He who shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved")
We retain no glory, or praise for ourselves. All glory, and honour, and power rightfully belongs to the Most High God!
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Post by to GiT on Aug 1, 2007 18:42:30 GMT -5
The question could more bluntly be put: will you stay in the true Church of Jesus upon the earth, or abandon Jesus, his people, and his Church for the ways of the world, based upon traditions, works, lucre, and the pride of men?
In your opinion the "true Church of Jesus upon the earth" is the F&W's.
In my experience it is not. These are the reasons for my opinion.
The true Gospel of the grace of Jesus Christ is not believed and preached among F&W's.
Their doctrines are varied and many, differing from worker to worker, area to area and as you youself said this is evidence of a dead church.
If a church cannot agree on, say, whether universalism is a biblical doctrine or not, then how can we view that church as being anything more than a collection of diverse elements present in the one place? A church body unified only by their denominational alliegience, but not unified by belief, doctrine, or faith is surely dead.
Your assumption that the first poster is going to leave Jesus to go "the ways of the world, based upon traditions, works, lucre, and the pride of men?" is purely a false opinion.
Where do you get the idea that they would be doing that?
You talk as if the Holy Spirit speaks through the "Church". The Bible tells us the Holy Spirit indwells true believers. This sounds very much like a Roman Catholic view to me.
Whose interpretation of the word should we believe? Shouldn't it be God's? The word makes perfectly clear what we need to believe for salvation, the Gospel of God is the truth about Jesus. In my experience the truth about Jesus was never taught to me by those who were said to be His mouthpieces in the F&W's church. How can I believe then that the Church you speak of is God's true church?
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Post by Brad Lewis on Aug 1, 2007 19:21:12 GMT -5
Praise God that GIT hasn't mentioned their full name so that their family is not disgraced. Brad
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Post by _ on Aug 1, 2007 21:00:28 GMT -5
The question could more bluntly be put: will you stay in the true Church of Jesus upon the earth, or abandon Jesus, his people, and his Church for the ways of the world, based upon traditions, works, lucre, and the pride of men? Which church do you refer to? A visible organization such as my local fellowship or the Friends and Worker's church... or the invisible church of all believers (the body of Christ)? From carm - Church
The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved.
The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. It spans the entire time of man's existence on earth as well as all people who are called into it. We become members of the church (body of Christ) by faith (Acts 2:41). We are edified by the Word (Eph. 4:15-16), disciplined by God (Matt. 18:15-17), unified in Christ (Gal. 3:28), and sanctified by the Spirit (Eph. 5:26-27).
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