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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 18, 2021 19:20:17 GMT -5
Don't worry -- you'll get over it. I wonder if I'll have time. I see a Trump resurgence on the horizon. I predicted that in 2016. I'm telling y'all -- Hitler is gone, Nazism remains. When Trump is gone ....... We'll see if Americans really know how to maintain a democracy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 21:32:34 GMT -5
I wonder if I'll have time. I see a Trump resurgence on the horizon. I predicted that in 2016. I'm telling y'all -- Hitler is gone, Nazism remains. When Trump is gone ....... We'll see if Americans really know how to maintain a democracy. I worry not about Trump, but about the fringe of his ultra-right supporters. There is an element in the right that is bent on bringing us back to the 1840s. These shave their heads, get swastika tattoos, and hoard weapons. Less apparent but equally corrosive are the far left, who seemingly detest America more than any other nation in the planet. Resentful probably, or determined that they live in the America of the 1840s. These obsess over things like finding racism in every breath and under every stone, and seem to think the supposed "microaggression" of guessing someone's gender wrong is the same as the literal horror of the holocaust or the gulags. They are similar. Both are bullies in groups, and cowards as individuals. The far left cannot abide the idea that the hierarchical structures of success in America are based on competence and merit rather than power and class. The left seems to think it's based on power and group class. The right is resentful of the merit based functional hierarchies, because it allows minorities to succeed over themselves if they have merit. The far right seems to wish that positions were based on power and class. Democracy must win. Neither far side must prevail. I have faith it will.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 19, 2021 17:31:51 GMT -5
I wonder if I'll have time. I see a Trump resurgence on the horizon. I predicted that in 2016. I'm telling y'all -- Hitler is gone, Nazism remains. When Trump is gone ....... We'll see if Americans really know how to maintain a democracy. I have a feeling that we just managed to dodge the bullet this time. It is sad to say but we may have dodged it this time only due to Covid-19.
Some think that Trump lost the election because most people felt he did not handle the pandemic adequately. Even then look at the aftermath?
In spite of all the evidence to the contrary there are some who still think that Trump did not lose the election; -that Covid-19 isn't really that bad and/or it was a man-made to begin with and NOW the vaccine is dangerous!
We certainly are at a crossroads not only in our own country but all other democracies around the world as well.
There was one encouragement the other day. The rally at the Capital was small and only a few legislators attended.
Yes, -it is going to be a rough road and these people who keep advocating for what they think is "freedom" have no idea what it is really like to not have any freedom at all!
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 19, 2021 18:29:29 GMT -5
I predicted that in 2016. I'm telling y'all -- Hitler is gone, Nazism remains. When Trump is gone ....... We'll see if Americans really know how to maintain a democracy. I have a feeling that we just managed to dodge the bullet this time. It is sad to say but we may have dodged it this time only due to Covid-19.
Some think that Trump lost the election because most people felt he did not handle the pandemic adequately. Even then look at the aftermath?
In spite of all the evidence to the contrary there are some who still think that Trump did not lose the election; -that Covid-19 isn't really that bad and/or it was a man-made to begin with and NOW the vaccine is dangerous!
We certainly are at a crossroads not only in our own country but all other democracies around the world as well.
There was one encouragement the other day. The rally at the Capital was small and only a few legislators attended.
Yes, -it is going to be a rough road and these people who keep advocating for what they think is "freedom" have no idea what it is really like to not have any freedom at all!Americans are really big on claiming their rights and freedoms. Unfortunately they are seriously poorly educated in how "freedoms" are established and maintained. By that I mean: They're not, as a population, well educated in democracy and how it's maintained. Forget party affiliations -- freedoms are not guaranteed by either right-wing, moderate, or left-wing politics, but by everyone's commitment to DEMOCRACY. The major problem we have with democracy in this country is that we have a "party" that has abdicated any pretense of respect for democracy's foundation -- universal voting rights. And y'all know which party that is and y'all know that they have no shame about aligning themselves with any force that will assist them in skewing and destroying the concept of universal suffrage. They're not hypocrites, they claim what they believe, and it just so happens that it is a right-wing party that has espoused this non-democratic stance. It doesn't matter which party wins an election; a right-wing dictatorship is no better than a left-wing dictatorship. But as long as one votes for a party that doesn't respect the vote of universal suffrage, one is consenting to the eventual collapse of democracy. Make no mistake, in this day and age dictatorships thrive on skewed and manipulated elections, and in the US we have a voting mechanism that can allow as few as 20% of the popular vote to elect a president. When the commitment to democracy is on the ballot -- vote for democracy first and you will have a much better chance of voting again in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 21:01:00 GMT -5
I have a feeling that we just managed to dodge the bullet this time. It is sad to say but we may have dodged it this time only due to Covid-19.
Some think that Trump lost the election because most people felt he did not handle the pandemic adequately. Even then look at the aftermath?
In spite of all the evidence to the contrary there are some who still think that Trump did not lose the election; -that Covid-19 isn't really that bad and/or it was a man-made to begin with and NOW the vaccine is dangerous!
We certainly are at a crossroads not only in our own country but all other democracies around the world as well.
There was one encouragement the other day. The rally at the Capital was small and only a few legislators attended.
Yes, -it is going to be a rough road and these people who keep advocating for what they think is "freedom" have no idea what it is really like to not have any freedom at all! Americans are really big on claiming their rights and freedoms. Unfortunately they are seriously poorly educated in how "freedoms" are established and maintained. By that I mean: They're not, as a population, well educated in democracy and how it's maintained. Forget party affiliations -- freedoms are not guaranteed by either right-wing, moderate, or left-wing politics, but by everyone's commitment to DEMOCRACY. The major problem we have with democracy in this country is that we have a "party" that has abdicated any pretense of respect for democracy's foundation -- universal voting rights. And y'all know which party that is and y'all know that they have no shame about aligning themselves with any force that will assist them in skewing and destroying the concept of universal suffrage. They're not hypocrites, they claim what they believe, and it just so happens that it is a right-wing party that has espoused this non-democratic stance. It doesn't matter which party wins an election; a right-wing dictatorship is no better than a left-wing dictatorship. But as long as one votes for a party that doesn't respect the vote of universal suffrage, one is consenting to the eventual collapse of democracy. Make no mistake, in this day and age dictatorships thrive on skewed and manipulated elections, and in the US we have a voting mechanism that can allow as few as 20% of the popular vote to elect a president. When the commitment to democracy is on the ballot -- vote for democracy first and you will have a much better chance of voting again in the future. I understand that there was a time when the electoral college made sense, but in this day and age, I'm with you. I would absolutely support a direct popular vote. I know it would've lead to a few different outcomes, but that to me is a "small picture" thing. Well said. On a related note, should the Democratic party choose their candidate by a direct Democratic process? Bernie would've been the 2016 nominee of not for the "super-delegates". Might have beaten Trump even.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 19, 2021 21:40:44 GMT -5
Americans are really big on claiming their rights and freedoms. Unfortunately they are seriously poorly educated in how "freedoms" are established and maintained. By that I mean: They're not, as a population, well educated in democracy and how it's maintained. Forget party affiliations -- freedoms are not guaranteed by either right-wing, moderate, or left-wing politics, but by everyone's commitment to DEMOCRACY. The major problem we have with democracy in this country is that we have a "party" that has abdicated any pretense of respect for democracy's foundation -- universal voting rights. And y'all know which party that is and y'all know that they have no shame about aligning themselves with any force that will assist them in skewing and destroying the concept of universal suffrage. They're not hypocrites, they claim what they believe, and it just so happens that it is a right-wing party that has espoused this non-democratic stance. It doesn't matter which party wins an election; a right-wing dictatorship is no better than a left-wing dictatorship. But as long as one votes for a party that doesn't respect the vote of universal suffrage, one is consenting to the eventual collapse of democracy. Make no mistake, in this day and age dictatorships thrive on skewed and manipulated elections, and in the US we have a voting mechanism that can allow as few as 20% of the popular vote to elect a president. When the commitment to democracy is on the ballot -- vote for democracy first and you will have a much better chance of voting again in the future. I understand that there was a time when the electoral college made sense, but in this day and age, I'm with you. I would absolutely support a direct popular vote. I know it would've lead to a few different outcomes, but that to me is a "small picture" thing. Well said. On a related note, should the Democratic party choose their candidate by a direct Democratic process? Bernie would've been the 2016 nominee of not for the "super-delegates". Might have beaten Trump even. As political parties are organized in this country, I definitely do not agree with the super-delegate setup. On the other hand, I believe the present 2-party preference system is problematic with respect to the election of Congressmen. It's the biggest reason why people complain because their voice isn't being heard, or the reason why Americans generally don't feel responsible for what the government they get. A parliamentary system makes for a better representation of public participation, but this government has from its beginnings had restrictions on whose voices would get represented in Congress. C'est la vie.You do realize that the electors college was established for that reason?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 22:19:31 GMT -5
I understand that there was a time when the electoral college made sense, but in this day and age, I'm with you. I would absolutely support a direct popular vote. I know it would've lead to a few different outcomes, but that to me is a "small picture" thing. Well said. On a related note, should the Democratic party choose their candidate by a direct Democratic process? Bernie would've been the 2016 nominee of not for the "super-delegates". Might have beaten Trump even. As political parties are organized in this country, I definitely do not agree with the super-delegate setup. On the other hand, I believe the present 2-party preference system is problematic with respect to the election of Congressmen. It's the biggest reason why people complain because their voice isn't being heard, or the reason why Americans generally don't feel responsible for what the government they get. A parliamentary system makes for a better representation of public participation, but this government has from its beginnings had restrictions on whose voices would get represented in Congress. C'est la vie.You do realize that the electors college was established for that reason? I was actually unaware that initially the electoral college voters (though elected themselves) didn't follow the votes of their constituents (who themselves didn't even vote for president). I understand that having someone vote to represent the votes of rural areas where access to vote was challenging, but nowadays that's not really an issue.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 19, 2021 22:51:59 GMT -5
As political parties are organized in this country, I definitely do not agree with the super-delegate setup. On the other hand, I believe the present 2-party preference system is problematic with respect to the election of Congressmen. It's the biggest reason why people complain because their voice isn't being heard, or the reason why Americans generally don't feel responsible for what the government they get. A parliamentary system makes for a better representation of public participation, but this government has from its beginnings had restrictions on whose voices would get represented in Congress. C'est la vie.You do realize that the electors college was established for that reason? I was actually unaware that initially the electoral college voters (though elected themselves) didn't follow the votes of their constituents (who themselves didn't even vote for president). I understand that having someone vote to represent the votes of rural areas where access to vote was challenging, but nowadays that's not really an issue. Well, it shouldn't be an issue. But it really is an issue. 49% of California's votes for presidential electors don't count.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 23:35:05 GMT -5
I understand that there was a time when the electoral college made sense, but in this day and age, I'm with you. I would absolutely support a direct popular vote. I know it would've lead to a few different outcomes, but that to me is a "small picture" thing. Well said. On a related note, should the Democratic party choose their candidate by a direct Democratic process? Bernie would've been the 2016 nominee of not for the "super-delegates". Might have beaten Trump even. As political parties are organized in this country, I definitely do not agree with the super-delegate setup. On the other hand, I believe the present 2-party preference system is problematic with respect to the election of Congressmen. It's the biggest reason why people complain because their voice isn't being heard, or the reason why Americans generally don't feel responsible for what the government they get. A parliamentary system makes for a better representation of public participation, but this government has from its beginnings had restrictions on whose voices would get represented in Congress. C'est la vie.You do realize that the electors college was established for that reason? Yeah right, lets regress back to the old system we overthrew and replaced with a better system. Nothing like putting back on the old shackles aye Bob?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 14:28:56 GMT -5
I was actually unaware that initially the electoral college voters (though elected themselves) didn't follow the votes of their constituents (who themselves didn't even vote for president). I understand that having someone vote to represent the votes of rural areas where access to vote was challenging, but nowadays that's not really an issue. Well, it shouldn't be an issue. But it really is an issue. 49% of California's votes for presidential electors don't count. I didn't vote at all in the last two elections. 1. I live in a state what my vote has zero chance of altering anything, and 2. Both candidates were garbage. In a direct election I would've voted a third party, because it simply wouldn't have seemed so rigged in the first place.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 20, 2021 14:32:35 GMT -5
As political parties are organized in this country, I definitely do not agree with the super-delegate setup. On the other hand, I believe the present 2-party preference system is problematic with respect to the election of Congressmen. It's the biggest reason why people complain because their voice isn't being heard, or the reason why Americans generally don't feel responsible for what the government they get. A parliamentary system makes for a better representation of public participation, but this government has from its beginnings had restrictions on whose voices would get represented in Congress. C'est la vie.You do realize that the electors college was established for that reason? Yeah right, lets regress back to the old system we overthrew and replaced with a better system. Nothing like putting back on the old shackles aye Bob? What is the old system you refer to?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 20, 2021 15:57:57 GMT -5
Well, it shouldn't be an issue. But it really is an issue. 49% of California's votes for presidential electors don't count. I didn't vote at all in the last two elections. 1. I live in a state what my vote has zero chance of altering anything, and 2. Both candidates were garbage. In a direct election I would've voted a third party, because it simply wouldn't have seemed so rigged in the first place. A lot of people present the same reasoning. It's up to each individual to vote as they choose, but here is something to remember: If there is a candidate intent on messing with democratic principles, your refusal to vote for the most popular opposing party means one less vote against the abuser of democracy. Don't let him bully you out of voting -- as far as he's concerned it's another vote in his favor. But you do confirm my criticism of US presidential elections -- 49% of the voters in your state don't count. The other 51% gets 100% your state's voice in the matter. The electoral college was invented for that purpose, unfortunately. And the people who profit from it the most are otherwise empowered by the constitution to keep it just the way it is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 16:27:58 GMT -5
I didn't vote at all in the last two elections. 1. I live in a state what my vote has zero chance of altering anything, and 2. Both candidates were garbage. In a direct election I would've voted a third party, because it simply wouldn't have seemed so rigged in the first place. A lot of people present the same reasoning. It's up to each individual to vote as they choose, but here is something to remember: If there is a candidate intent on messing with democratic principles, your refusal to vote for the most popular opposing party means one less vote against the abuser of democracy. Don't let him bully you out of voting -- as far as he's concerned it's another vote in his favor. But you do confirm my criticism of US presidential elections -- 49% of the voters in your state don't count. The other 51% gets 100% your state's voice in the matter. The electoral college was invented for that purpose, unfortunately. And the people who profit from it the most are otherwise empowered by the constitution to keep it just the way it is. I know you're right in principle - I did vote when we lived in our two prior states, as they were considered potential swing states. Can you imagine the voter turnout in an actual democratic direct election?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 20, 2021 16:48:01 GMT -5
A lot of people present the same reasoning. It's up to each individual to vote as they choose, but here is something to remember: If there is a candidate intent on messing with democratic principles, your refusal to vote for the most popular opposing party means one less vote against the abuser of democracy. Don't let him bully you out of voting -- as far as he's concerned it's another vote in his favor. But you do confirm my criticism of US presidential elections -- 49% of the voters in your state don't count. The other 51% gets 100% your state's voice in the matter. The electoral college was invented for that purpose, unfortunately. And the people who profit from it the most are otherwise empowered by the constitution to keep it just the way it is. I know you're right in principle - I did vote when we lived in our two prior states, as they were considered potential swing states. Can you imagine the voter turnout in an actual democratic direct election? I think the last presidential election was a good example of what happens when people are desperate to have their vote count. The only reason a person's vote doesn't count is because of the electoral college. No wonder people complain about voting when in recent times the loser of the popular vote actually became president. The only other country that adopted such a concept was the apartheid government in South Africa.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 17:28:43 GMT -5
I know you're right in principle - I did vote when we lived in our two prior states, as they were considered potential swing states. Can you imagine the voter turnout in an actual democratic direct election? I think the last presidential election was a good example of what happens when people are desperate to have their vote count. The only reason a person's vote doesn't count is because of the electoral college. No wonder people complain about voting when in recent times the loser of the popular vote actually became president. The only other country that adopted such a concept was the apartheid government in South Africa. Interesting - didn't know that. Makes sense for South Africa though. Interesting story - I had a South African student - fb friend now - who visited home. He said he couldn't wait to get back to the states because of the anti-white racism. Small world. We're all just people after all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 11:29:13 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOV3U0JITcThis isn't treason, but it is the perspective of a top border official who served under Trump and Biden. I wish the Biden administration was as hard on the Taliban and the drug smugglers as it is on people on horses trying to protect our border..... Come on, man. We're in a leftist utopia. Apparently.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2021 18:24:01 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOV3U0JITcThis isn't treason, but it is the perspective of a top border official who served under Trump and Biden. I wish the Biden administration was as hard on the Taliban and the drug smugglers as it is on people on horses trying to protect our border..... Come on, man. We're in a leftist utopia. Apparently. Where were the people on horses when the refugees were "brown"?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 15:20:40 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOV3U0JITcThis isn't treason, but it is the perspective of a top border official who served under Trump and Biden. I wish the Biden administration was as hard on the Taliban and the drug smugglers as it is on people on horses trying to protect our border..... Come on, man. We're in a leftist utopia. Apparently. Where were the people on horses when the refugees were "brown"? There since 1904. Patrolling difficult terrain and in many cases saving the lives of trafficked people. Since our braindead fool of a left wing puppet produced 3 key policy changes as soon as he got into office and created by himself this mess in a matter of weeks, agents on horseback had to be diverted to help. I can almost hear AOC gleefully giggling into her mega-mocha Latte : "oh goody goody! Photos of white males in horseback chasing black people! Yay!! Time to screw up my face and cry!! Racist! Fascist!" (Photographer: "um.... they weren't physically hurting them....") Biden: "they told me to say I was disturbed"
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 9, 2021 16:57:16 GMT -5
Where were the people on horses when the refugees were "brown"? There since 1904. Patrolling difficult terrain and in many cases saving the lives of trafficked people. Since our braindead fool of a left wing puppet produced 3 key policy changes as soon as he got into office and created by himself this mess in a matter of weeks, agents on horseback had to be diverted to help. I can almost hear AOC gleefully giggling into her mega-mocha Latte : "oh goody goody! Photos of white males in horseback chasing black people! Yay!! Time to screw up my face and cry!! Racist! Fascist!" (Photographer: "um.... they weren't physically hurting them....") Biden: "they told me to say I was disturbed" Ipsedixit; -this is unlike you, -the way you just spoke about AOC, -it is not the way that you usually talk about anyone even when you don't approve of their actions.
I am wondering why you dislike her so much.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2021 16:57:49 GMT -5
Where were the people on horses when the refugees were "brown"? There since 1904. Patrolling difficult terrain and in many cases saving the lives of trafficked people. Since our braindead fool of a left wing puppet produced 3 key policy changes as soon as he got into office and created by himself this mess in a matter of weeks, agents on horseback had to be diverted to help. I can almost hear AOC gleefully giggling into her mega-mocha Latte : "oh goody goody! Photos of white males in horseback chasing black people! Yay!! Time to screw up my face and cry!! Racist! Fascist!" (Photographer: "um.... they weren't physically hurting them....") Biden: "they told me to say I was disturbed" Pfff Now that it's become socially acceptable to flaunt one's nationalism, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 17:37:12 GMT -5
There since 1904. Patrolling difficult terrain and in many cases saving the lives of trafficked people. Since our braindead fool of a left wing puppet produced 3 key policy changes as soon as he got into office and created by himself this mess in a matter of weeks, agents on horseback had to be diverted to help. I can almost hear AOC gleefully giggling into her mega-mocha Latte : "oh goody goody! Photos of white males in horseback chasing black people! Yay!! Time to screw up my face and cry!! Racist! Fascist!" (Photographer: "um.... they weren't physically hurting them....") Biden: "they told me to say I was disturbed" Ipsedixit; -this is unlike you, -the way you just spoke about AOC, -it is not the way that you usually talk about anyone even when you don't approve of their actions.
I am wondering why you dislike her so much.I didn't start out disliking her. I think she's very intelligent in a "book smart" way. Here's where my frustration with her and others rests: when Trump was president, she was willing to go down to the border and stage a photo shoot of her crying about "kids in cages". Fair enough - set aside that the detention cages were built by the Obama administration, she can most certainly express her outrage at them. Obama was actually fairly strong and simultaneously fair about immigration, deporting more illegal immigrants than Bush, Clinton and Bush Jr. combined. In the background of the newly realized "Trump puts kids in cages" theater, the "remain in Mexico" policy negotiated with the Mexican government and the end of "Catch and Release" lead to a 40 year low in illegal immigration. This of course means that by the end of Trumps presidency, there were fewer kids in cages than at any point during Obama. Enter Biden, who immediately reverses both policies and creates a true border crisis. Where are AOC's border visits and tears? Where is her outrage? She's angry with border agents who are betrayed by the very government that tasks them with keeping us safe. Does she care that kids are stacked in cages during a pandemic with anywhere from 20-30% testing positive for COVID? No. She's got a new place for her tears: the Iron Dome funding which allows Israel to defend itself (not even an offensive weapon) from the constant threat of rockets by people who have written into their creed the destruction of Israel. That's why I can't stand her.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2021 17:40:00 GMT -5
Ipsedixit; -this is unlike you, -the way you just spoke about AOC, -it is not the way that you usually talk about anyone even when you don't approve of their actions.
I am wondering why you dislike her so much. I didn't start out disliking her. I think she's very intelligent in a "book smart" way. Here's where my frustration with her and others rests: when Trump was president, she was willing to go down to the border and stage a photo shoot of her crying about "kids in cages". Fair enough - set aside that the detention cages were built by the Obama administration, she can most certainly express her outrage at them. Obama was actually fairly strong and simultaneously fair about immigration, deporting more illegal immigrants than Bush, Clinton and Bush Jr. combined. In the background of the newly realized "Trump puts kids in cages" theater, the "remain in Mexico" policy negotiated with the Mexican government and the end of "Catch and Release" lead to a 40 year low in illegal immigration. This of course means that by the end of Trumps presidency, there were fewer kids in cages than at any point during Obama. Enter Biden, who immediately reverses both policies and creates a true border crisis. Where are AOC's border visits and tears? Where is her outrage? She's angry with border agents who are betrayed by the very government that tasks them with keeping us safe. Does she care that kids are stacked in cages during a pandemic with anywhere from 20-30% testing positive for COVID? No. She's got a new place for her tears: the Iron Dome funding which allows Israel to defend itself (not even an offensive weapon) from the constant threat of rockets by people who have written into their creed the destruction of Israel. That's why I can't stand her. You'll get used to it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 17:49:37 GMT -5
There since 1904. Patrolling difficult terrain and in many cases saving the lives of trafficked people. Since our braindead fool of a left wing puppet produced 3 key policy changes as soon as he got into office and created by himself this mess in a matter of weeks, agents on horseback had to be diverted to help. I can almost hear AOC gleefully giggling into her mega-mocha Latte : "oh goody goody! Photos of white males in horseback chasing black people! Yay!! Time to screw up my face and cry!! Racist! Fascist!" (Photographer: "um.... they weren't physically hurting them....") Biden: "they told me to say I was disturbed" Pfff Now that it's become socially acceptable to flaunt one's nationalism, of course. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the inhabitants weren't glad to be there and nationalists. If you are proud of something, you will seek to improve it. When you look at the history of America, is there nothing of which to be proud? Plenty there is to remember with shame. You won't hear me deny that. Plenty to work on and improve. You've read what I think should happen to people who (for example) fly the Confederate flag. Or who endorse white supremacy. You know I accept the evidence for institutional racism. I've posted a list of examples that I find appalling. The gender gap (for a variety of reasons) is another issue that's real. I've seen it directly, and have advised a lady who was a victim of it to immediately contact HR, renegotiate her salary or resign and sue. She did, and her resulting salary outstripped her less qualified and frankly less competent male counterparts. But I know it's a systematic problem. Regardless, I believe in the idea of individual liberty, and believe that America can be proud to the extent it has lived up to it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 17:54:08 GMT -5
I didn't start out disliking her. I think she's very intelligent in a "book smart" way. Here's where my frustration with her and others rests: when Trump was president, she was willing to go down to the border and stage a photo shoot of her crying about "kids in cages". Fair enough - set aside that the detention cages were built by the Obama administration, she can most certainly express her outrage at them. Obama was actually fairly strong and simultaneously fair about immigration, deporting more illegal immigrants than Bush, Clinton and Bush Jr. combined. In the background of the newly realized "Trump puts kids in cages" theater, the "remain in Mexico" policy negotiated with the Mexican government and the end of "Catch and Release" lead to a 40 year low in illegal immigration. This of course means that by the end of Trumps presidency, there were fewer kids in cages than at any point during Obama. Enter Biden, who immediately reverses both policies and creates a true border crisis. Where are AOC's border visits and tears? Where is her outrage? She's angry with border agents who are betrayed by the very government that tasks them with keeping us safe. Does she care that kids are stacked in cages during a pandemic with anywhere from 20-30% testing positive for COVID? No. She's got a new place for her tears: the Iron Dome funding which allows Israel to defend itself (not even an offensive weapon) from the constant threat of rockets by people who have written into their creed the destruction of Israel. That's why I can't stand her. You'll get used to it. 😆 I suppose you're right. I'm so used to hypocrisy by both right and left, it shouldn't surprise me. The right moaning about abortion while denying social programs to benefit children and denying free and affordable contraception... I find that more repulsive than anything AOC has done.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2021 18:08:01 GMT -5
Pfff Now that it's become socially acceptable to flaunt one's nationalism, of course. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the inhabitants weren't glad to be there and nationalists. If you are proud of something, you will seek to improve it. When you look at the history of America, is there nothing of which to be proud? Plenty there is to remember with shame. You won't hear me deny that. Plenty to work on and improve. You've read what I think should happen to people who (for example) fly the Confederate flag. Or who endorse white supremacy. You know I accept the evidence for institutional racism. I've posted a list of examples that I find appalling. The gender gap (for a variety of reasons) is another issue that's real. I've seen it directly, and have advised a lady who was a victim of it to immediately contact HR, renegotiate her salary or resign and sue. She did, and her resulting salary outstripped her less qualified and frankly less competent male counterparts. But I know it's a systematic problem. Regardless, I believe in the idea of individual liberty, and believe that America can be proud to the extent it has lived up to it. I'm not at all impressed with how it's lived up to it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2021 18:23:11 GMT -5
You'll get used to it. 😆 I suppose you're right. I'm so used to hypocrisy by both right and left, it shouldn't surprise me. The right moaning about abortion while denying social programs to benefit children and denying free and affordable contraception... I find that more repulsive than anything AOC has done. That's to your credit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 21:04:06 GMT -5
AOC is just another pretty face with a head filled with nonsense...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 9, 2021 22:02:57 GMT -5
AOC is just another pretty face with a head filled with nonsense... Typical sexist remark, wally and all the more so because you do not even realize that it is sexist and you will deny it is sexist!
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