|
Post by afriendandanex on Jul 27, 2007 10:57:40 GMT -5
It is so sad that Nathan and others think just because someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their beliefs. It isn't so Nathan and others.
Did you ever think that a person who leaves may need a little encouragement from their so-called friends? Did you ever try to just talk with them and maybe help them with what is bothering them? Where is the love of all of God's children, whether they are in your religion or out? How do you treat your co-workers? How do you treat your spouses or children if they don't profess your way? What is the difference? Our daughter stopped professing and we loved her just the same. We talked with her and tried to find out what was bothering her. It helps to know that others care and really do love you know matter what religion you belong to. Remember, when one leaves a religion, they most likely don't leave God. We really do need to think about our actions towards others and to others.
These things have been bothering me lately and I truly need to work on my actions as much as anyone else. God please help me to always love and never hinder in any way. May we remember that we all need love. We don't need nor deserve being cut down by others and we don't want to find ourselves guilty of doing that ourselves. Thanks.
A Friend to All
|
|
|
Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 27, 2007 11:52:45 GMT -5
Great post. Just as I still love the friends in meetings (and still "hang out" with some of them), I am very thankful for those who haven't just abandoned us because we left meetings.
Whats hard is when your family doesn't really want to listen or open their mind to what you have to say, think, feel.. when they brush off the "whys" and reasons of your leaving.
I'm glad you listened to your daughter, and, as it sounds like, supported her through it.
|
|
|
Post by Calvin on Jul 27, 2007 12:04:08 GMT -5
It is so sad that Nathan and others think just because someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their beliefs. It isn't so Nathan and others. A Friend to All What you are portraying isn't true. There are many ex's on here (including myself) who disagree with many ideas and opinions of Nathan and others and we have never been called liars. I think others can tell by my posts that I don't hate the friends. In fact, I still love many of them (especially my mother and father and brother who are still 2x2's). There are some wonderful ex's on this board with nice spirits and nice contributions (Selah and Scott come to mind). Others are mean and nasty.... and I would have to say that some of them have posted some lies...
|
|
|
Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 27, 2007 14:05:02 GMT -5
There are definitely two sides to everything- there are both ex's and friends here who are compassionate, kind, and wise... while there are ex's and friends here who love to stir the pot, cause problems, and tell lies.
Some people just love the drama!
|
|
|
Post by Goofy on Jul 27, 2007 16:19:58 GMT -5
In one of the posts here, it was said that someone "is glad that friends have not abandoned them because they left the meetings".
So lots of us have "abandoned" meetings but we want friends to NOT "abandone" us. Not a 2 way street is it.
We left, abandoned or whatever, meetings. I guess by definition we abandonded those attending meetings, told them their religious convictions were wrong, they were being decieved etc., but by the way, we dont want you to abondone us.
Double talk isnt it!
|
|
|
Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 27, 2007 20:35:17 GMT -5
I agree, from what I've read, Nathan is not an attacker, but rather someone who shares his views and beliefs. There are those here who, whilst tangle their views and beliefs with insults... but I don't think Nathan is one of those people.
|
|
|
Post by I disagree on Jul 28, 2007 12:29:05 GMT -5
In one of the posts here, it was said that someone "is glad that friends have not abandoned them because they left the meetings". So lots of us have "abandoned" meetings but we want friends to NOT "abandone" us. Not a 2 way street is it. We left, abandoned or whatever, meetings. I guess by definition we abandonded those attending meetings, told them their religious convictions were wrong, they were being decieved etc., but by the way, we dont want you to abondone us. Double talk isnt it! Well I think that people hope that they can choose where they will worship without it impacting their reationship with friends and family. I go to a great Christian church, but if I decided that I would rather go to another one I would hope that friends would still be my friends. True, I would not be attending church events, but they would still include me in birthday parties, anniversaries, trips, dinners out etc. I have switched churches several times in the past and real Christians at any fellowship still accept me as a fellow believer. If I am a friend in their life they will not cut me loose just ecause I decide to attend victory outreach instead of adventure christian. People in cultish groups have a different mindset--you are with us or you are the enemy.
|
|
IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
|
Post by IQ on Jul 28, 2007 13:28:42 GMT -5
No matter what we believe, we shouldn't "push" our views on others, if you don't want theirs push down our throats.
On the other hand, if they ask about our views, we shall share it with them. But remember, this might be their way of opening up a conversation to share their views with you.
If there is one hundred of us here, there is probably one hundred different views or one hundred ways to explain those views, if they are the same or similar.
No one is a liar, unless they are saying something they know or deem to be a lie.
|
|
|
Post by ranman77007 on Jul 28, 2007 13:32:29 GMT -5
99 views, not 100. one view is not allowed, is it Syd? take it easy Syd. i'ma go play some scrabble, since i can't get in your chatroom. lots of girls to play there in the summery time.
|
|
IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
|
Post by IQ on Jul 28, 2007 15:41:31 GMT -5
99 views, not 100. one view is not allowed, is it Syd? take it easy Syd. i'ma go play some scrabble, since i can't get in your chatroom. lots of girls to play there in the summery time. Was there any BIG winners in the "scratch off" tickets that you "helped" yourself to? Was it worth it?
|
|
|
Post by ranman77007 on Aug 22, 2007 19:14:33 GMT -5
99 views, not 100. one view is not allowed, is it Syd? take it easy Syd. i'ma go play some scrabble, since i can't get in your chatroom. lots of girls to play there in the summery time. Was there any BIG winners in the "scratch off" tickets that you "helped" yourself to? Was it worth it? what are you talking about? i never stole a scratcher ticket in my life... not one. not ever... sorry. but i did find a fifty dollar winner ...someone had scratched it all except part of one number... i found it in the parking lot... the scratchers are counted at the beginning and end of every shift. do you think i could work somewhere 2 years and steal lottery tickets, on camera no less?... i thought you were smarter than that... i need a zen moment here... peace to you, syd. ranman
|
|
|
Post by jh62 on Aug 23, 2007 8:25:54 GMT -5
Nathan, I wanted to say thanks for mentioning me as a nice ex. I think it's wonderful when people can discuss religious and spiritual issues without becoming offensive, and I've seen you work very hard at writing respectful posts. Ya know, it's weird....I know you and I don't agree on many "religous" issues, but I bet we'd agree a lot on "spiritual" issues.
|
|
Nathan to afriendandanex
Guest
|
Post by Nathan to afriendandanex on Aug 23, 2007 8:45:21 GMT -5
It is so sad that Nathan and others think just because someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their beliefs. It isn't so Nathan and others. A Friend to All Can you show me where where I say someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their belief. Can you back up your accusation with proof of what you are talking about? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by N9 to Jh62 on Aug 23, 2007 8:53:18 GMT -5
Nathan, I wanted to say thanks for mentioning me as a nice ex. I think it's wonderful when people can discuss religious and spiritual issues without becoming offensive, and I've seen you work very hard at writing respectful posts. Ya know, it's weird....I know you and I don't agree on many "religous" issues, but I bet we'd agree a lot on "spiritual" issues. You are welcome. I have always enjoy reading your posts, questions, answers.... Yes, we don't agree on many 2x2s issues, belief, practices because our experiences and understanding are not the same so we disagree on some of these things but I respect you as a person.
There is a doctrine which both of us agree on is once SAVED is not Always SAVED. ;D
|
|
|
Post by So Then on Aug 23, 2007 14:36:33 GMT -5
Nathan, I wanted to say thanks for mentioning me as a nice ex. I think it's wonderful when people can discuss religious and spiritual issues without becoming offensive, and I've seen you work very hard at writing respectful posts. Ya know, it's weird....I know you and I don't agree on many "religous" issues, but I bet we'd agree a lot on "spiritual" issues. You are welcome. I have always enjoy reading your posts, questions, answers.... Yes, we don't agree on many 2x2s issues, belief, practices because our experiences and understanding are not the same so we disagree on some of these things but I respect you as a person.
There is a doctrine which both of us agree on is once SAVED is not Always SAVED. ;DYou don't put much faith in the fact that God said that once you are in his hand nobody will be able to snatch you out of his hand?
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 23:40:48 GMT -5
It is so sad that Nathan and others think just because someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their beliefs. It isn't so Nathan and others.
There have been quite a number of exes who have been friendly to me on the TMB, and who are sufficiently fair-minded to see my perspective without surrendering their own. (Giving each other a fair hearing). These exes don't stoop to childish stunts, such as the "avatar contest" presently running, or to reproducing the word "blah" a thousand times in a thread in response to one of my answers.
Among this group of decent, and fair-minded exes I would classify: withopeneyes, As I C It, Jh62, and others that don't immediately come to mind.
The rest - the poisoned dwarfs - I regard with deep suspicion, disinterest and dislike.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2007 5:51:57 GMT -5
It is so sad that Nathan and others think just because someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their beliefs. It isn't so Nathan and others. A Friend to All Can you show me where where I say someone leaves the meetings they are liars and hate the friends and their belief. Can you back up your accusation with proof of what you are talking about? Thanks.Although I am sure most know that I share very few of Nathans views on many things, I do find some of the baseless critisizm of him as rather tireing. Without folks like him that express the 2x2 position on many of the issues of discussion -- the board would be rather dead. It is possible he may get carried away with some of his feelings sometimes -- but most of us do, in the heat of discussion. My hope is that he stays with us ... and I admire him for staying with us through some of the wild bashing sessions he has withstod at times. Cut him a little slack --- he is a person like the rest of us. Edgar
|
|
|
Post by ANDREW M on Aug 24, 2007 6:56:53 GMT -5
I concur with Edgar's sentiments about Nathan.
Nathan has the courage not only to fully identify himself, he openly stipulates his beliefs both on this forum and on his very public website. He stands head and shoulders above the parapet, making himself an easy target to aim at. Not many, especially in the F&W's sect, have the courage to do this.
In short, he makes himself a target for anti-2x2ism as well as a medium for more moderate discussions.
I can only speak for myself, but I have found him to be very gracious in his dealings with myself.
Like others, I have concluded some of his views to be unduly influenced by Irvinism, but I try to remind myself that I too was likewise for many years before such bonds were loosed. Wise words and counsel from others were spurned during those years in bondage. It took some very hard and serious experiences to finally cause the scales to fall from my eyes.Therefore I have a responsibility to be extra-gracious in return.
|
|
|
Post by Not Always on Aug 24, 2007 7:34:52 GMT -5
I concur with Edgar's sentiments about Nathan. Nathan has the courage not only to fully identify himself, he openly stipulates his beliefs both on this forum and on his very public website. He stands head and shoulders above the parapet, making himself an easy target to aim at. Not many, especially in the F&W's sect, have the courage to do this. In short, he makes himself a target for anti-2x2ism as well as a medium for more moderate discussions. I can only speak for myself, but I have found him to be very gracious in his dealings with myself. Like others, I have concluded some of his views to be unduly influenced by Irvinism, but I try to remind myself that I too was likewise for many years before such bonds were loosed. Wise words and counsel from others were spurned during those years in bondage. It took some very hard and serious experiences to finally cause the scales to fall from my eyes.Therefore I have a responsibility to be extra-gracious in return. Not always did this nathan have the courage to identify himself. It was not so long ago that nathan and some others used to use different handles and cut down many of the exes on this forum. They lied about who they were and also had email discussions of how to attack the evil exers on this forum. The old timers remember and know the lies and two faces of nathan. Many masks to see but still hidden.
|
|
|
Post by ANDREW M on Aug 24, 2007 7:50:22 GMT -5
As I said, I can only speak for myself. I personally have not encountered the behaviour you describe in my dealings with Nathan. Of course maybe I have been naive ?
Anyway, I'm sure most of us have hoisted our own petard in the past and now live to regret same. I think Edgar's advice to cut him some slack is wise.
If Nathan's reputation has been compromised by any of his behaviour in the past, then hopefully he is learning from this lesson and keenly seeking to have a more upright approach in the future ?
|
|
|
Post by jh62unlogged on Aug 24, 2007 8:53:55 GMT -5
I agree Andrew. I think we've all made mistakes and we shouldn't let others actions influence our own actions. If they doing something misguided, and we in return do something misguided, what do we gain? I know that I really need to strive for more edifying posts, although I do like a good debate also! Thanks for including me in the fair-minded, GIT. There are times when I think we all get too busy splitting hairs and forget that there are many deep spiritual issues that we'd agree on, such as having a deep love for God, trying to be a help and not a hindrance to others in their spiritual journey, even if it's just being an ear to listen when they're going through hard times, having a love for others, no matter their race, religion or gender, and having a desire to learn more of God.
|
|
Nathan9 to Andrew M and Edgar
Guest
|
Post by Nathan9 to Andrew M and Edgar on Aug 24, 2007 9:00:57 GMT -5
As I said, I can only speak for myself. I personally have not encountered the behaviour you describe in my dealings with Nathan. Of course maybe I have been naive ? Anyway, I'm sure most of us have hoisted our own petard in the past and now live to regret same. I think Edgar's advice to cut him some slack is wise. If Nathan's reputation has been compromised by any of his behaviour in the past, then hopefully he is learning from this lesson and keenly seeking to have a more upright approach in the future ? Thank you for your kind words Edgar and Andrew... I always have been honest with most of you about myself, my belief and there is NOTHING I am ashamed of.
You see the anonymous can SAY anything and get away with murder because we don't know who he or she is.... that is why he/she posts anonymous so I can't ask him or her to back up what he is talking about.
Anonymous, why don't you identify your true identity when you say untrue things about me? let's know who you are then we will judge your words... Don't post such a post and hide in the dark!
As I said in the past there were those who pretended to me by writing like me using my avatars the old timers should remember this. I had to tell them over and over it wasn't me who wrote it.
Thanks, again Andrew and Edgar.
|
|
|
Post by Hoister on Aug 24, 2007 14:40:21 GMT -5
Andrew M said... "Anyway, I'm sure most of us have hoisted our own petard in the past and now live to regret same. I think Edgar's advice to cut him some slack is wise."
Its not possible to hoist your own petard. Its possible to be hoist (injured) by your own (or anothers) Petard (siege machine)
if we have hoisted (lifted) our own petard in the past, its a bit meaningless.
Petard - medieval siege machine Hoist - past tense word meaning injured.
|
|
|
Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 24, 2007 15:17:59 GMT -5
I thought the word "hoist" meant to lift something up, as in 'I hoisted up me britches" :-)
|
|
|
Post by ranman77007 on Aug 24, 2007 15:25:02 GMT -5
i'm not saying anything. ;D
|
|
|
Post by ANDREW M on Aug 24, 2007 15:25:36 GMT -5
"Hoist your own petard" was a commonly used figure of speech, usually used to refer to people being injured by the means they use on others. It was perhaps more commonly used amongst the educated classes in the UK. Meaning of "Hoist Your Own Petard " "Injured by the device that you intended to use to injure others." See www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hoist%20by%20your%20own%20petard.htmlI used this phrase because someone had alleged that in the past Nathan had attacked ex-2x2's by various devious means, which appear to have injured his own reputation somewhat amongst some who have known him for a long time. Maybe the phrase is not entirely appropriate, but is not far off the way it has been used elsewhere in common language. What is not in doubt is that "IT IS POSSIBLE TO HOIST YOUR OWN PETARD !"
|
|
|
Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 24, 2007 15:34:24 GMT -5
i'm not saying anything. ;D ha ha you dont have to... your faces say it all!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by ranman77007 on Aug 24, 2007 15:43:33 GMT -5
i'm not saying anything. ;D ha ha you dont have to... your faces say it all!!!!!! oh cool, another woman that knows what i am thinking !! ;D i'm off to work.. have a nice day.. watch out for the guys here, they will just try and get them britches off...
|
|