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Post by Wowwie on Jul 26, 2007 17:07:40 GMT -5
I was curious as to what type of education ministers and such go through for a college degree in Theology. Here is what I found from a full Curriculum Baptist college. This is only after the person has a BS degree. I do not believe that any of our workers can match this with learning. Kinda leaves me to say, Hey those other preachers do know the Bible Stuff.
GOT 513 Old Testament Introduction GNT 514 New Testament Introduction GPA 513 Hermeneutics Women only GPA 515 Hermeneutics and Homiletics Men only GOT 528 Pentateuch GOT 538 Historical Books of Old Testament GOT 540 Job GOT 542 Psalms GOT 547 I & II Samuel GOT 556 Jeremiah & Ezekiel
GNT 512 Life of Christ GNT 520 New Testament Backgrounds GNT 529 Matthew GNT 537 Romans GNT 542 Prison Epistles GNT 556 Revelation
GPA 514 Pastoral Problems and Procedures
GNT 501 Introduction to Greek GOT 501 Introduction to Hebrew GOT 511 Hebrew Grammar I GOT 512 Hebrew Grammar II GNT 507 Greek Syntax I GNT 508 Greek Syntax II GNT 511 Advanced Grammar and Exegesis GNT 524 James (Word Studies) GNT 527 I Thessalonians (Exegesis) GNT 582 Greek Reading
GST 520 Dispensations
GST 531 Systematic Theology I (Bibliology, Theology Proper) GST 532 Systematic Theology II (Christology) GST 533 Systematic Theology III (Anthropology, Hamartiology) GST 534 Systematic Theology IV (Soteriology) GST 535 Systematic Theology V (Angelology, Pneumatology) GST 536 Systematic Theology VI (Ecclesiology, Eschatology)
GHI 508 Baptist History GHI 528 History of Christianity
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Post by pseudo learning on Jul 26, 2007 17:13:14 GMT -5
Those courses have as much intellectual legitimacy as
Madonna, MTV, and the Sociopolitical Impact of Music Videos, ENG 401
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 21:31:03 GMT -5
Those courses have as much intellectual legitimacy as Madonna, MTV, and the Sociopolitical Impact of Music Videos, ENG 401 Yeah sure. You really don't have a clue do you. Of course then you probably don't even know what most of the words mean in the course outline. Willful ignorance is no excuse.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 21:31:47 GMT -5
Those courses have as much intellectual legitimacy as Madonna, MTV, and the Sociopolitical Impact of Music Videos, ENG 401 Yeah sure. You really don't have a clue do you. Of course then you probably don't even know what most of the words mean in the course outline. Willful ignorance is no excuse. Oh wait this was probably all greek to you. Oh Well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 21:46:29 GMT -5
How much of this is deemed relevant to us?
deep breath... here goes.... ;D
Old Testament Introduction - we cover this New Testament Introduction - we cover this Hermeneutics Women only - we don't deal with feminist issues Hermeneutics and Homiletics Men only - we don't deal with masculine issues
Pentateuch - we cover this, but why call it that? Historical Books of Old Testament - we cover this Job - we cover this Psalms - we cover this I & II Samuel - we cover this Jeremiah & Ezekiel - we cover this
Life of Christ - we cover this New Testament Backgrounds - it is mentioned (some do, often!) Matthew - we cover this Romans - we cover this Prison Epistles - we cover this Revelation - we cover this
Pastoral Problems and Procedures - young workers learn this hands on.
Introduction to Greek - we see this as irrelevant Introduction to Hebrew - we see this as irrelevant Hebrew Grammar I - we see this as irrelevant Hebrew Grammar II - we see this as irrelevant Greek Syntax I - we see this as irrelevant Greek Syntax II - we see this as irrelevant Advanced Grammar and Exegesis - we see this as irrelevant James (Word Studies) - this is ambiguous I Thessalonians (Exegesis) - we cover this Greek Reading - this is ambiguous - reading what?
Dispensations - this is ambiguous
Systematic Theology I (Bibliology, Theology Proper) - this is ambiguous Systematic Theology II (Christology) - this is ambiguous Systematic Theology III (Anthropology, Hamartiology) - Did Jesus study Anthropology? such a course baffles me. Systematic Theology IV (Soteriology) - this is ambiguous Systematic Theology V (Angelology, Pneumatology) - this is ambiguous Systematic Theology VI (Ecclesiology, Eschatology) - we cover these but don't call them by pompous titles.
Baptist History - this is ambiguous History of Christianity - only in relation to the First Century church
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Post by grammar girl on Jul 26, 2007 22:01:16 GMT -5
Yeah sure. You really don't have a clue do you. Of course then you probably don't even know what most of the words mean in the course outline. Willful ignorance is no excuse. Oh wait this was probably all greek to you. Oh Well. That would be Greek, not greek. It would appear that English grammar is Greek to you. ;D
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 26, 2007 23:21:16 GMT -5
How much of this is deemed relevant to us? deep breath... here goes.... ;D Old Testament Introduction - we cover thisNew Testament Introduction - we cover thisHermeneutics Women only - we don't deal with feminist issuesHermeneutics and Homiletics Men only - we don't deal with masculine issuesPentateuch - we cover this, but why call it that? Historical Books of Old Testament - we cover thisJob - we cover thisPsalms - we cover thisI & II Samuel - we cover this Jeremiah & Ezekiel - we cover thisLife of Christ - we cover thisNew Testament Backgrounds - it is mentioned (some do, often!)Matthew - we cover thisRomans - we cover thisPrison Epistles - we cover thisRevelation - we cover thisPastoral Problems and Procedures - young workers learn this hands on.Introduction to Greek - we see this as irrelevantIntroduction to Hebrew - we see this as irrelevantHebrew Grammar I - we see this as irrelevantHebrew Grammar II - we see this as irrelevantGreek Syntax I - we see this as irrelevantGreek Syntax II - we see this as irrelevantAdvanced Grammar and Exegesis - we see this as irrelevantJames (Word Studies) - this is ambiguousI Thessalonians (Exegesis) - we cover thisGreek Reading - this is ambiguous - reading what?Dispensations - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology I (Bibliology, Theology Proper) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology II (Christology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology III (Anthropology, Hamartiology) - Did Jesus study Anthropology? such a course baffles me.Systematic Theology IV (Soteriology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology V (Angelology, Pneumatology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology VI (Ecclesiology, Eschatology) - we cover these but don't call them by pompous titles.Baptist History - this is ambiguousHistory of Christianity - only in relation to the First Century churchbert, Your response here is very, very telling! Why on earth wouldn't the leaders of a church want to know the "men's and women's" issues very well?! That is a glaring drawback in the education of a pastor. Pentateuch - why wouldn't you want to call it what it is? Historical Books of Old Testament - we cover this The F & W (and many other churches) understand so little about the history of the children of Israel that they believe the "return of Isreal" is about the Israeli State today. Your said yourself at one point that you were sick to death hearing about the "house of Israel". Obviously, if you really "covered" the history and understood the significance of it all today, you wouldn't be tired of hearing about it! So you don't "cover it"! You don't cover the "prophets" any better than the history. The things you find irrelevent shows quite clearly how the blind are leading the blind in the F & W church. How can anything so important be Irrelevant? As wtbwg says, SHEEEESSSHHHH! You get the point, so I won't detail the rest! Edy I have to add a PS here! Pastoral Problems and Procedures - young workers learn this hands on.Yes, they are learning from older workers who are mostly quite clueless about pastoring in the first place! I had my own very, very personal experience with this one! Yikes!
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Post by las logged out on Jul 27, 2007 14:26:59 GMT -5
Want to give yourself a education second to none..purchase all the macgregor ministry DVD collection
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Post by ScholarGal on Jul 27, 2007 15:49:23 GMT -5
Bert, I admire your ability to fit everything you believe into a very specific framework. However, it makes me cringe when you try to apply such a narrow perspective on Biblical study and interpretation. Hermeneutics Women only - we don't deal with feminist issuesHermeneutics and Homiletics Men only - we don't deal with masculine issues Hermeneutics = interpretation of the Bible Homiletics = study of preachingThe lines I have quoted from Bert's response above have nothing to do with feminist or masculine issues. Look at the definitions of the course subjects. These are simply a division of coursework in a bible program that doesn't believe women should be able to preach. Though you disregard the importance of the study of Greek New Testament, you should remember that without the work of scholars of the Greek language and culture of the New Testament, none of us would be able to read the bible and relate it to our modern language and life. scholarGal
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Post by ii on Jul 27, 2007 15:58:26 GMT -5
I was curious as to what type of education ministers and such go through for a college degree in Theology. Here is what I found from a full Curriculum Baptist college. This is only after the person has a BS degree. I do not believe that any of our workers can match this with learning. Kinda leaves me to say, Hey those other preachers do know the Bible Stuff. GOT 513 Old Testament Introduction GNT 514 New Testament Introduction GPA 513 Hermeneutics Women only GPA 515 Hermeneutics and Homiletics Men only GOT 528 Pentateuch GOT 538 Historical Books of Old Testament GOT 540 Job GOT 542 Psalms GOT 547 I & II Samuel GOT 556 Jeremiah & Ezekiel GNT 512 Life of Christ GNT 520 New Testament Backgrounds GNT 529 Matthew GNT 537 Romans GNT 542 Prison Epistles GNT 556 Revelation GPA 514 Pastoral Problems and Procedures GNT 501 Introduction to Greek GOT 501 Introduction to Hebrew GOT 511 Hebrew Grammar I GOT 512 Hebrew Grammar II GNT 507 Greek Syntax I GNT 508 Greek Syntax II GNT 511 Advanced Grammar and Exegesis GNT 524 James (Word Studies) GNT 527 I Thessalonians (Exegesis) GNT 582 Greek Reading GST 520 Dispensations GST 531 Systematic Theology I (Bibliology, Theology Proper) GST 532 Systematic Theology II (Christology) GST 533 Systematic Theology III (Anthropology, Hamartiology) GST 534 Systematic Theology IV (Soteriology) GST 535 Systematic Theology V (Angelology, Pneumatology) GST 536 Systematic Theology VI (Ecclesiology, Eschatology) GHI 508 Baptist History GHI 528 History of Christianity these mean didly squat/nothing unless God gives the increase or understanding He will not give the understanding to something that is not His. He will only give understanding to those who seek His understanding and not there own.
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Post by OnLooker on Jul 27, 2007 16:01:38 GMT -5
And so then a young person who goes into college to study Theology could not be moved by the Holy Spirit? Not only moved but also well trained in the understanding of Bible History and Scripture. Perhaps it is the Holy Spirit which leads the person to the study.
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Post by ii on Jul 27, 2007 16:08:11 GMT -5
And so then a young person who goes into college to study Theology could not be moved by the Holy Spirit? Not only moved but also well trained in the understanding of Bible History and Scripture. Perhaps it is the Holy Spirit which leads the person to the study. thats right because they are seeking training through mans programs rather than Gods let me ask. who does the training?
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Post by ii on Jul 27, 2007 16:09:16 GMT -5
How much of this is deemed relevant to us? deep breath... here goes.... ;D Old Testament Introduction - we cover thisNew Testament Introduction - we cover thisHermeneutics Women only - we don't deal with feminist issuesHermeneutics and Homiletics Men only - we don't deal with masculine issuesPentateuch - we cover this, but why call it that? Historical Books of Old Testament - we cover thisJob - we cover thisPsalms - we cover thisI & II Samuel - we cover this Jeremiah & Ezekiel - we cover thisLife of Christ - we cover thisNew Testament Backgrounds - it is mentioned (some do, often!)Matthew - we cover thisRomans - we cover thisPrison Epistles - we cover thisRevelation - we cover thisPastoral Problems and Procedures - young workers learn this hands on.Introduction to Greek - we see this as irrelevantIntroduction to Hebrew - we see this as irrelevantHebrew Grammar I - we see this as irrelevantHebrew Grammar II - we see this as irrelevantGreek Syntax I - we see this as irrelevantGreek Syntax II - we see this as irrelevantAdvanced Grammar and Exegesis - we see this as irrelevantJames (Word Studies) - this is ambiguousI Thessalonians (Exegesis) - we cover thisGreek Reading - this is ambiguous - reading what?Dispensations - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology I (Bibliology, Theology Proper) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology II (Christology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology III (Anthropology, Hamartiology) - Did Jesus study Anthropology? such a course baffles me.Systematic Theology IV (Soteriology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology V (Angelology, Pneumatology) - this is ambiguousSystematic Theology VI (Ecclesiology, Eschatology) - we cover these but don't call them by pompous titles.Baptist History - this is ambiguousHistory of Christianity - only in relation to the First Century churchwell done me Aussie mate ;D
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Post by I Believe on Jul 27, 2007 16:13:01 GMT -5
I Believe that a formal structured course is the way to go for someone interested in Bible teaching. It sure beats a life of one liners and never understand the pretext nor context of what you are reading.
Check Harvards degree programs. Goes way beyond what any workers. Hey look at this. BFW---Before F&W's
Founded in 1911 after an agreement between Harvard Divinity School and Andover Seminary in 1910 brought the collections of both institutions together, Andover-Harvard Theological Library holds 485,000 books, pamphlets and manuscripts; 30,000 rare books; original papers of Paul Tillich; and the historical archives of the Unitarian Universalist Association. The Library serves the broader Harvard community and is used by the theological schools that make up the Boston Theological Institute.
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Post by ii on Jul 27, 2007 16:13:40 GMT -5
Bert, I admire your ability to fit everything you believe into a very specific framework. However, it makes me cringe when you try to apply such a narrow perspective on Biblical study and interpretation. Hermeneutics Women only - we don't deal with feminist issuesHermeneutics and Homiletics Men only - we don't deal with masculine issues Hermeneutics = interpretation of the Bible Homiletics = study of preachingThe lines I have quoted from Bert's response above have nothing to do with feminist or masculine issues. Look at the definitions of the course subjects. These are simply a division of coursework in a bible program that doesn't believe women should be able to preach. Though you disregard the importance of the study of Greek New Testament, you should remember that without the work of scholars of the Greek language and culture of the New Testament, none of us would be able to read the bible and relate it to our modern language and life. scholarGal which of the disciples learnt Hermeneutics = interpretation of the Bible Homiletics = study of preaching and who taught them? and if not why did Jesus not teach them? why because they take away the need for faith and dependance on God in the first instance
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Post by ii on Jul 27, 2007 16:16:19 GMT -5
I Believe that a formal structured course is the way to go for someone interested in Bible teaching. It sure beats a life of one liners and never understand the pretext nor context of what you are reading. Check Harvards degree programs. Goes way beyond what any workers. Hey look at this. BFW---Before F&W's Founded in 1911 after an agreement between Harvard Divinity School and Andover Seminary in 1910 brought the collections of both institutions together, Andover-Harvard Theological Library holds 485,000 books, pamphlets and manuscripts; 30,000 rare books; original papers of Paul Tillich; and the historical archives of the Unitarian Universalist Association. The Library serves the broader Harvard community and is used by the theological schools that make up the Boston Theological Institute. so where does God get the look in? or is God now redundant and all teaching is to be made through man made programs?
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 27, 2007 16:17:58 GMT -5
bert, you say you cover it, but you really don't. In fact, meetings and bible discussions only skim the surface of these subjects. While none of this is required to be a missionary, it is required for other areas of teaching within the church (like being a Youth Pastor, etc).
My husband is looking into getting his "Baptist Masters", and several of our close friends have already, or are about to start.
This is indepth coverage. Its not saying that we all need it... that's not the point at all, but being a well-informed teacher is important, especially these days when people are bent on "bending" the bible to fit their own needs.
These courses really look into the Hebrew and Greek language, and getting down to the nitty gritty translation of the bible.... which is very important because MUCH is lost in translation.
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Post by ScholarGal on Jul 27, 2007 16:25:56 GMT -5
which of the disciples learnt Hermeneutics = interpretation of the Bible Homiletics = study of preaching and who taught them? and if not why did Jesus not teach them? why because they take away the need for faith and dependance on God in the first instance Well, since I haven't taken any New Testament history classes, I don't know the backgrounds of all the disciples before they started following Jesus. (My first college roommate was a religious studies major, later got M. Div. at Harvard, now working on Ph.D. in systematic theology. I respect the influence she had on my life and studies.) Paul was obviously a very learned man. I'm sure that he studied Jewish law and its interpretation, hermeneutics. He was also an orator, which means he would have studied how to do writing and public speaking to persuade a crowd, homiletics. The other disciples were Jewish. I don't claim to know the details of Jewish rites of passage, but I know that the modern bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah (at about 12-14 years of age) requires some study of scripture and its historical interpretation. I'm sure that the disciples of Christ had some religious training, otherwise they would not have known to even look for the Messiah. ScholarGal
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Post by simple on Jul 27, 2007 16:32:47 GMT -5
This thread is just one more example of how clueless bert is to reality. He's smoking "wacky worker weed", metaphorically speaking, and has no further cognitive abilities. What a shame.
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Post by a believer on Jul 27, 2007 18:25:05 GMT -5
And so then a young person who goes into college to study Theology could not be moved by the Holy Spirit? Not only moved but also well trained in the understanding of Bible History and Scripture. Perhaps it is the Holy Spirit which leads the person to the study. thats right because they are seeking training through mans programs rather than Gods let me ask. who does the training? The workers are men and women aren't they? The workers do the training in your group, so in your group, it is men and women that do the training. NO different to those who teach by other means. Some sit in hired halls under the teachings of the workers for a couple of hours a week while others sit in halls where they learn full time for a few years. What is the difference?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2007 20:33:34 GMT -5
Hi scholarGal
re this
Hermeneutics Women only Hermeneutics and Homiletics Men only It is the issue with women and men that I sought to draw attention to. We don't want to balkanize and fragment the bible with all our fashionable and petty worldly issues (as some do)
quote - These are simply a division of coursework in a bible program that doesn't believe women should be able to preach. In our church there are more women preachers than men, and more women in meetings than men.quote - Though you disregard the importance of the study of Greek New Testament, you should remember that without the work of scholars of the Greek language and culture of the New Testament, none of us would be able to read the bible and relate it to our modern language and life. Actually (and I don't want anyone knowing this!) I have been learning Greek for about 20 years. But I don't want to apply my terribly ineffectual learning to the bible. I trust the translation of the King James and the New King James. I have seen a lot of sly people use Greek translations to pull the wool over people's eyes. This month on the TMB someone tried to use Greek translations to show the author of Hebrews didn't really mean what he wrote by "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is." I mean, really...
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Post by simple on Jul 27, 2007 21:01:48 GMT -5
But I don't want to apply my terribly ineffectual learning to the bible. It's a little late to be saying that now.
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Post by to Bert on Jul 27, 2007 21:06:32 GMT -5
Hi scholarGal
re this
Hermeneutics Women only Hermeneutics and Homiletics Men only It is the issue with women and men that I sought to draw attention to. We don't want to balkanize and fragment the bible with all our fashionable and petty worldly issues (as some do)
quote - These are simply a division of coursework in a bible program that doesn't believe women should be able to preach. In our church there are more women preachers than men, and more women in meetings than men.quote - Though you disregard the importance of the study of Greek New Testament, you should remember that without the work of scholars of the Greek language and culture of the New Testament, none of us would be able to read the bible and relate it to our modern language and life. Actually (and I don't want anyone knowing this!) I have been learning Greek for about 20 years. But I don't want to apply my terribly ineffectual learning to the bible. I trust the translation of the King James and the New King James. I have seen a lot of sly people use Greek translations to pull the wool over people's eyes. This month on the TMB someone tried to use Greek translations to show the author of Hebrews didn't really mean what he wrote by "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is." I mean, really... Did you ask them if it was because they view that women should not be able to preach - or are you making assumptions again Bert. Yes there are more women workers than men, could you please tell me where Jesus sent out men? Don't go telling me about Phillips' daughters who prophesied because the workers are not prophets, and women who were helpers to men in the Gospel, or Priscilla who was an elders wife. I mean Jesus instructed men to preach and not women. Paul said women were to keep quiet in the church, so tell me where their were women who were sent out preaching in pairs as instructed by Jesus. What is your interest in learning Greek Bert?
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Post by to bert on Jul 27, 2007 21:08:28 GMT -5
to Bert continued.... and I know of several Baptist churches that have women pastors......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2007 21:16:10 GMT -5
quote - Did you ask them if it was because they view that women should not be able to preach - or are you making assumptions again Bert. We believe women should be able to preach. The narrative of the bible tells us there were women preachers.
quote - Yes there are more women workers than men, could you please tell me where Jesus sent out men? There were the 12. We don't know about the 70. The Acts gives us the names of many men preachers.
quote - Don't go telling me about Phillips' daughters who prophesied because the workers are not prophets, and women who were helpers to men in the Gospel, or Priscilla who was an elders wife. I read a web site yesterday which referred to Priscilla and Aquilla as being brothers! I think it was Phoebe who was a woman preacher of some authority. re workers not being prophets - what is a prophet?
quote - I mean Jesus instructed men to preach and not women. Paul said women were to keep quiet in the church, so tell me where their were women who were sent out preaching in pairs as instructed by Jesus. That's a contentious verse for many churches! A friend who was in that part of the world told me "You have to be in those countries to understand what that verse means" Meaning women tended to interrupt.
quote - What is your interest in learning Greek Bert? I know a few Greeks. I sometimes visit an elderly Greek lady who watches Greek TV cable (where people scream, cry and fight all the time!) So it is hard not to start picking it up.
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Post by janet on Jul 28, 2007 1:39:02 GMT -5
quote - Did you ask them if it was because they view that women should not be able to preach - or are you making assumptions again Bert. We believe women should be able to preach. The narrative of the bible tells us there were women preachers.quote - Yes there are more women workers than men, could you please tell me where Jesus sent out men? There were the 12. We don't know about the 70. The Acts gives us the names of many men preachers.quote - Don't go telling me about Phillips' daughters who prophesied because the workers are not prophets, and women who were helpers to men in the Gospel, or Priscilla who was an elders wife. I read a web site yesterday which referred to Priscilla and Aquilla as being brothers! I think it was Phoebe who was a woman preacher of some authority. re workers not being prophets - what is a prophet?quote - I mean Jesus instructed men to preach and not women. Paul said women were to keep quiet in the church, so tell me where their were women who were sent out preaching in pairs as instructed by Jesus. That's a contentious verse for many churches! A friend who was in that part of the world told me "You have to be in those countries to understand what that verse means" Meaning women tended to interrupt.quote - What is your interest in learning Greek Bert? I know a few Greeks. I sometimes visit an elderly Greek lady who watches Greek TV cable (where people scream, cry and fight all the time!) So it is hard not to start picking it up. Bert you cannot understand the greater meaning of the NT without knowing the translations and the proper Greek. Good luck in you uneducated guess at what the Bible is saying. Keep up with you one liners of scripture without pretext and context. That is all the F&W's want to hear. * [9:8] Never correct a conceited man; he will hate you for it. But if you correct a wise man, he will respect you.
* [10:17] People who listen when they are corrected will live, but those who will not admit that they are wrong are in danger.
* [12:15] Stupid people always think they are right. Wise people listen to advice.
* [16:22] Wisdom is a fountain of life to the wise, but trying to educate stupid people is a waste of time.
* [25:12] A warning given by an experienced person to someone willing to listen is more valuable than gold rings or jewellery made of the finest gold.
* [27:5] Better to correct someone openly than to let him think you don't care for him at all.
* [27:17] People learn from one another, just as iron sharpens iron.
* [27:22] Even if you beat a fool until he's half dead, you still can't beat his foolishness out of him. Wear them if they fit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2007 1:42:39 GMT -5
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Post by janet on Jul 28, 2007 1:52:42 GMT -5
Could be if you don't understand the full meaning of the dispensation of Grace. I don't believe you do. After all one can defeat the Love of God according to you. God put down the first writings in Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and Hebrew. So perhaps you are making God mad at you by not knowing what God inspired first using those languages.
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