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Post by Need to know on Jul 22, 2007 2:33:26 GMT -5
What if a person has in ignorance committed the "unforgivable" sin? For instance: denying that anybody outside of their church has The Holy Spirit. What if this person realizes to their great dismay that they have been doing this...and now the scales have fallen from their eyes & they now see their terrible error...and now are enlightened & are remorseful, and are eager to be on the right track. Are they doomed to eternal damnation anyway?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 22, 2007 2:37:33 GMT -5
I wanted to type...short answer? no. (even tho the question seems obviously rhetorical)...but then I realized, no person can make that judgement. Only God can decide who is or is not doomed to eternal damnation. M.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 22, 2007 14:34:25 GMT -5
I don't believe that which you stated is the unforgiveable sin. Otherwise, most of us who were once, or still are 2x2s, Catholics, Baptists, Mormons.. etc would be headed for hell.
Think of the apostle Paul. He believed Christians couldn't possibly be "of God". His eyes were opened and God was able to make him very useful in the kingdom.
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Post by selah on Jul 22, 2007 16:39:03 GMT -5
The unforgiveable sin is only unforgiveable as long as the sinner is unrepentant.
For example: If you have believed and allowed the work of the Holy Spirit in your life, and you tell a lie just before you die, your sin is forgiven. Your sin is covered by the blood of the Lamb.
But, if you have denied and rejected the work of the Holy Spirit....and you die in this sin....it cannot be forgiven. Forgiveness from sin is found only in the blood of the Lamb.
That's my take on it..
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 22, 2007 22:09:20 GMT -5
It is my understanding that there is no unforgivable sin - as in eternal damnation for blasphemy. I understand that it will not be forgiven "in this AGE", which is the correct translation.
Best! Edy
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 23, 2007 5:59:30 GMT -5
[Someone Wrote] What if a person has in ignorance committed the unforgivable sin? For instance: denying that anybody outside of their church has The Holy Spirit. What if this person realizes to their great dismay that they have been doing this...and now the scales have fallen from their eyes & they now see their terrible error...and now are enlightened & are remorseful, and are eager to be on the right track. Are they doomed to eternal damnation anyway?
The level of misapprehension in this statement is multifaceted. There is a distinct misunderstanding about the nature of the "unforgivable sin" and indeed, the nature of sin itself. Moreover, repentance ("remorse for wrongdoing"), which can only be given by enlightenment by God - as it is written, "Esau found no place of repentance" - would obviously preclude the hypothetical individual (who is a thinly-disguised professing friend) from being damned.
Firstly, the Bible clearly teaches that sin is an act of the will (which in human beings is thoroughly corrupted). No one slips into wrongdoing without a conscious choice.
When we sin, it is because we demonstrate obedience to our inborn corrupt nature. For as Paul tells us, "Once we were slaves to unrighteousness". A slave's will conforms with that of his master, hence our own own actions (in a sinful condition) conform to our natural master of unrighteousness. Already, one should note in the above a significant departure from the biblical doctrine of an act of sin, and the assumptions presented above.
Secondly, the "unforgivable sin" is not something shrouded in as much mystery as some would promote. I wish more people had studied textual criticism, and would apply some of that knowledge to the Bible. Because, as I have consistently maintained in matters of dispute, the Word of God interprets itself! And what's more, very readily lends itself to self-intepretation. Given that this is one of the chief principles of sola scriptura, to which all Protestants claim recognition, it is sad that so few really understand (it would seem).
The text clearly indicates that the sin committed by the Pharisees was implying that Jesus was working his miracles through the power of Satan - Beelzebub. They therefore blasphemed the Holy Spirit by claiming it was devil's power. This therefore is the true "unforgivable sin" - to claim that Jesus acted, worked, and lived in a power given to him by Satan, rather than the power of God the Holy Spirit, who is glorious and pure - "In him is no darkness at all"!
It would be hard to prove that many professing people would point the finger to other churches and claim they were animated by the devils. Professing people - like adherents of other denominations - may lament the misguided practices and beliefs of other churches, but this is hardly the same thing as condemning and criticising their spirit. Professing people may even say that adherents of denominational religion "lack the Holy Spirit", but again, this is not the equivalent of maintaining that they are animated by Satan.
Let us get some perspective here. The unforgivable sin is NOT being committed by professing people; the unforgivable sin is NOT saying that other churches lack the Holy Spirit; the unforgivable sin is NOT something for which one can desire to repent of, and not be able to find forgiveness because God is so pettily pedantic about this rule.
The unforgivable sin IS the claim that Jesus was working through the power of Satan. And as such, it holds no place in sectarian disputation - which is what is happening on this board. It is misguided at best, and disingenuous at worst to suggest that this text is even remotely relevant to believing, reverent followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Possibly - and I stress possibly - it might enter an apologetic discussion in an inter-religious context in which one is speaking to an atheist, or a Wiccan, or a devil-worshipper. But it is definitely not relevant to the fellowship.
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Post by Gene on Jul 23, 2007 6:24:40 GMT -5
Welcome back, Glory.
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Post by OnLooker on Jul 23, 2007 7:40:50 GMT -5
[Someone Wrote] What if a person has in ignorance committed the unforgivable sin? For instance: denying that anybody outside of their church has The Holy Spirit. What if this person realizes to their great dismay that they have been doing this...and now the scales have fallen from their eyes & they now see their terrible error...and now are enlightened & are remorseful, and are eager to be on the right track. Are they doomed to eternal damnation anyway?The level of misapprehension in this statement is multifaceted. There is a distinct misunderstanding about the nature of the "unforgivable sin" and indeed, the nature of sin itself. Moreover, repentance ("remorse for wrongdoing"), which can only be given by enlightenment by God - as it is written, "Esau found no place of repentance" - would obviously preclude the hypothetical individual (who is a thinly-disguised professing friend) from being damned. Firstly, the Bible clearly teaches that sin is an act of the will (which in human beings is thoroughly corrupted). No one slips into wrongdoing without a conscious choice. When we sin, it is because we demonstrate obedience to our inborn corrupt nature. For as Paul tells us, "Once we were slaves to unrighteousness". A slave's will conforms with that of his master, hence our own own actions (in a sinful condition) conform to our natural master of unrighteousness. Already, one should note in the above a significant departure from the biblical doctrine of an act of sin, and the assumptions presented above. Secondly, the "unforgivable sin" is not something shrouded in as much mystery as some would promote. I wish more people had studied textual criticism, and would apply some of that knowledge to the Bible. Because, as I have consistently maintained in matters of dispute, the Word of God interprets itself! And what's more, very readily lends itself to self-intepretation. Given that this is one of the chief principles of sola scriptura, to which all Protestants claim recognition, it is sad that so few really understand (it would seem). The text clearly indicates that the sin committed by the Pharisees was implying that Jesus was working his miracles through the power of Satan - Beelzebub. They therefore blasphemed the Holy Spirit by claiming it was devil's power. This therefore is the true "unforgivable sin" - to claim that Jesus acted, worked, and lived in a power given to him by Satan, rather than the power of God the Holy Spirit, who is glorious and pure - "In him is no darkness at all"! It would be hard to prove that many professing people would point the finger to other churches and claim they were animated by the devils. Professing people - like adherents of other denominations - may lament the misguided practices and beliefs of other churches, but this is hardly the same thing as condemning and criticising their spirit. Professing people may even say that adherents of denominational religion "lack the Holy Spirit", but again, this is not the equivalent of maintaining that they are animated by Satan. Let us get some perspective here. The unforgivable sin is NOT being committed by professing people; the unforgivable sin is NOT saying that other churches lack the Holy Spirit; the unforgivable sin is NOT something for which one can desire to repent of, and not be able to find forgiveness because God is so pettily pedantic about this rule. The unforgivable sin IS the claim that Jesus was working through the power of Satan. And as such, it holds no place in sectarian disputation - which is what is happening on this board. It is misguided at best, and disingenuous at worst to suggest that this text is even remotely relevant to believing, reverent followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Possibly - and I stress possibly - it might enter an apologetic discussion in an inter-religious context in which one is speaking to an atheist, or a Wiccan, or a devil-worshipper. But it is definitely not relevant to the fellowship. I disagree. From my KJV Dictionary Our Lord taught (Mt.12:31-32; Mk. 3:28-30; Lk. 12:10 that 'blasphemy against the Holy Ghost' is a sin for which there is no forgiveness. The context shows that this sin consists in willfully regarding as evil and the work of the devil something which is plainly good and the work of the Spirit of God. A man who does this is in a state of willful Rebellion against the Divine Spirit, the only Power capable of reforming and sanctifying him. His forgiveness is therefore a moral impossibility 1 Corinthians 3:16-18 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Ephesians 2:20-22 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV)
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV)
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? These above verses link the collective Church and each member as all part of the HOLY BODY and the HOLY GHOSTSo then the Church is the Body. It is HOLY and the Temple of the HOLY GHOST. Each member of that Body is fitly joined to the HOLY TEMPLE as part of the Body. When one claims they are part of the Body and then lays willful accusation against another part of the Body as in (They ARE A False Church) when the works of the HOLY SPIRIT are visible, That one who accused is Denying the Works of The Holy Spirit in their own Body. They have Blasphemed. The issue is in the words "willful", "ignorance", and "false". I feel out of ignorance people may level the word False. If one truly is a false Church then it is not of God so then it is of evil since they are lying and invoking Christs name. On the other hand if they are a True Church and Part of the Body Those that dis them are in serious error. Many due to ignorance believe they are the only ones who are Part of the Body. Since Being part of the Body means you are the Temple of the HOLY GHOST, those who reject others based on custom or superficial examination are in fact suspect as to if they Have the Indwelling Spirit. If you lay claim of false Church wrongly then you are Laying claim (Denying) that those Works are of the HOLY GHOST and really are of the Devil. I believe it is impossible for one who has the Indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT to willfully deny the works of the HOLY SPIRIT. Never the less many do willfully lay the false claim but mostly because of custom and ignorance. In those cases those people have not yet come to the fullness of the HOLY SPIRIT. Once the scales are removed there is forgiveness with repentance. And the most important part of SEEING is not to lay accusations in ignorance. It is better to error in acceptance then to error in rejection unto eternal death
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Post by Question on Jul 23, 2007 16:06:11 GMT -5
John wrote: Beloved, believe "NOT" every spirit, but "TEST" the spirits whether they are from God: because "MAN" false prophets are gone into the world. We are of God: he that knows God hears us; and that is "NOT" of God hear us "NOT" us. (I John 4:1,6)
Jesus said, " ALL these are beginning of sorrow. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you: and ye shall be HATED of ALL nations for my name's sake. And then sahll many be offfended, and shall BETRAY one another, and shall HATE one another.
Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive "MANY" and because iniquity shall abound, the LOVE of "MANY" shall wax cold. But he that endure unto the end, the same shall be SAVED. (Matthew 24:8-14)
Jesus also said, "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep clothing but INWARDLY! the are ferocious wolves. Ye shall KNOW them by THEIR fruit." (Matthew 7:16)
~~~ God's words and Jesus' teachings are the measuring stick use it, then pray to Him for His guidance. What is the litmus test that one uses to test the Spirits by so that they may prove that they are of God? Please list what methods used to judge others in this test.
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Post by ranman77007 on Jul 23, 2007 16:16:57 GMT -5
John wrote: Beloved, believe "NOT" every spirit, but "TEST" the spirits whether they are from God: because "MAN" false prophets are gone into the world. We are of God: he that knows God hears us; and that is "NOT" of God hear us "NOT" us. (I John 4:1,6)
Jesus said, " ALL these are beginning of sorrow. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you: and ye shall be HATED of ALL nations for my name's sake. And then sahll many be offfended, and shall BETRAY one another, and shall HATE one another.
Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive "MANY" and because iniquity shall abound, the LOVE of "MANY" shall wax cold. But he that endure unto the end, the same shall be SAVED. (Matthew 24:8-14)
Jesus also said, "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep clothing but INWARDLY! the are ferocious wolves. Ye shall KNOW them by THEIR fruit." (Matthew 7:16)
~~~ God's words and Jesus' teachings are the measuring stick use it, then pray to Him for His guidance. What is the litmus test that one uses to test the Spirits by so that they may prove that they are of God? Please list what methods used to judge others in this test. we use the Syd's chatroom test... if you are banned, you have committed the unforgivable sin, and can never voice there again, are forever separated from its inner chambers.
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Syds Chat room rules
Guest
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Post by Syds Chat room rules on Jul 23, 2007 16:54:11 GMT -5
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Post by There was one more on Jul 23, 2007 16:57:49 GMT -5
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 24, 2007 3:51:38 GMT -5
Oh for PETE's SAKE (poor Pete) give it UP already. Some people are like a dog with a bone, I tell ya!!!
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Post by ranman77007 on Jul 24, 2007 4:20:24 GMT -5
bunch of pear shaped losers?
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Post by tillidie on Jul 25, 2007 5:34:10 GMT -5
Never ...Especially since my loyalties will always be Pearshaped"
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Post by Bump on Jul 26, 2007 3:05:48 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by B on Jul 26, 2007 4:03:07 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by So on Jul 26, 2007 4:09:11 GMT -5
Never ...Especially since my loyalties will always be Pearshaped" You LIKe being a pea brained donut belly
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Post by tillidie on Jul 26, 2007 4:21:41 GMT -5
How would you even know such a thing???
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Post by Cause on Jul 26, 2007 4:52:30 GMT -5
How would you even know such a thing??? You said it
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Post by tillidie on Jul 26, 2007 8:42:14 GMT -5
How would you know who I am... and who are you?
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 14:36:23 GMT -5
How would you know who I am... and who are you? I don't think that matters because the person was mocking you. Does it matter?
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Post by Pear shaped person on Aug 11, 2007 19:00:44 GMT -5
I believed that being a pear-shaped person is the unforgivable sin. All pear-shaped persons are doomed to eternal hell....or at least until they slim down. I am a pear-shaped person.
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