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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 23, 2007 5:31:39 GMT -5
[Brad Wrote] To top it all off, this 2x2 is going to be applying for a state issued license and will have to lie on the application to get it. Hellooooooo??I must confess to being disappointed with this professing individual for causing you so much trouble. I, of course, assume what you have written to be true because I am sure that only someone completely insensible would write an article complaining about dishonesty, while at the some time being deceptive. However, it is important to point out that sin is the condition of man's nature. We are all concieved in iniquity; there is no good thing dwelling withing; we are dead in trespasses and sins. Consequently, it is to be expected that those who profess Christianity and proclaim lofty moral standards will occassionally prove to be less than perfect in their own actions. This is the universal condition of man, and not something to be broadcast to the world. Recently I have had a less-than-pleasant encounter with someone, but I would never tell anyone the gory details of their sins and errors because to do so would be a tragic reflection upon myself, as much as on the individual in question. [Brad Wrote] They're messing with the wrong dudePerhaps. I find it sad that although I have been absent from this forum for well over thirteen weeks, yet when I return I still find you recycling the old lines, the old rhetoric and the old spin. Do not get me wrong. The professing person's actions we uneqivocally wrong and I condemn them in the strongest possible terms, but it seems to me that you are glad that a professing person has animated these kinds of offences against you. Your post has a distinct tone of triumph, which I doubt very much would be there if it had been some "garden-variety Christian" (I do not mean that as an insult). It reminds me when the World Trade Centre was attacked. Some extremist fundementalist Christians were celebrating. Celebrating indeed! For they believed it was an indication that the end of the world was nigh, and Christ was soon to return. Be that as it may, it left a terrible taste in my mouth. As Christian people we must never delight in sin, even for its symbolic meanings. We must oppose it in all its forms. But you've got to wonder, Brad, why it was you that this individual targeted? Most people on this forum seem to get away remarkably unscathed by social security fraud. Why were they gunning for you? [Brad Wrote] 2x2 = liar = strong 2x2 = compulsive liarI hate to be pedantic, but an equation never has multiple equals signs! And as a person you would classify as a compulsive liar, it is a bit sad when even I recognise the need to get the small things at least close to correct. [Brad Wrote] Ever wonder why I don't like the worker's way?Sadly, you are not a good ambassador for your own church. Nothing about your writings, past or present, would inspire me to follow the "good news" you have recieved.
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Different experiences
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Post by Different experiences on Jul 23, 2007 5:40:57 GMT -5
Well I appreciate what you have to say, I believe that different people experience different things.
From my experience personally, many of the young friends held this very dogma "As long as you don't get caught" It was OK to drink, smoke, club, party, have pre marital relationships. As long as no one who mattered (parents, workers, elders, etc.) never found out about it. So basically as long as they didn't have to suffer the consequences.
I am sure this is not only in this religious group. From what I have learned is that all groups are basically the same, and with the same bad and good. The biggest difference I find though is that many Christians in other groups are open to discussing the problems such as sexual addictions, porn, drinking, and to help people over come. They do not readily judge and condemn. They try to help people correct their problems. Many problems in the friends and workers church are hush hush and don't talk about them in open. I was even told that it is not our place to admit our sins to those who fellowship (that this is something only icky catholics do... confession... but that is between you and god.) I believe that be able to confess your sins to others is part of the road of spiritual healing.... because you are no longer alone, but have those in your spiritual family to lift you up, pray for you, and give you edification and correction.
God never expected any one to be a spiritual island. This is not part of his plan. His plan was for us to live as a family helping and correcting each other.
There is not this same openness in the friends and workers church from my experience. There are a lot of hush hush, and don't talk about that.....
I believe if the group was more open to discussing group and personal problems, there would be a larger degree of spiritual healing of the group. This type of interaction works towards perfecting of the group. But because this often doesn't happen.... I do believe in my experience that it tends to breed those and long as "No one find out" Christians. At least this is the way it was with my friends.... and myself to be honest..... I only found true spiritual help and healing after leaving the group. I wasn't saying to myself continually... Oppsss... I did it agian... sorry god... I will do better.... Oppsss.... I did it agian.... sorry god..... I will do better... Over and over and over... Once I had the help I needed.... I got out the that vicious cycle... I realized that even if no one was seeing me do it it was damaging to the church as a whole, my fellowship, and my spiritual well being......
I was thankful for this....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 6:06:34 GMT -5
quote - "From my experience personally, many of the young friends held this very dogma "As long as you don't get caught" It was OK to drink, smoke, club, party, have pre marital relationships. As long as no one who mattered (parents, workers, elders, etc.) never found out about it. So basically as long as they didn't have to suffer the consequences. Well, such people have to learn as we all must. Don't judge a belief's principles by the breach of those principles.
quote - I am sure this is not only in this religious group. From what I have learned is that all groups are basically the same, and with the same bad and good. The biggest difference I find though is that many Christians in other groups are open to discussing the problems such as sexual addictions, porn, drinking, and to help people over come. They do not readily judge and condemn. They try to help people correct their problems. er... how do you say porn, sex addiction and drinking is a "problem" if you are not judging these issues? Maybe they are not problems? Many Christians say you 'shouldn't judge" people for things that are their nature.
quote - Many problems in the friends and workers church are hush hush and don't talk about them in open. Trouble is, a lot of people don't think these things are sins, and boast. Others want to confess freely to the world and join the victimhood society.
I was even told that it is not our place to admit our sins to those who fellowship (that this is something only icky catholics do... confession... but that is between you and god.) I believe that be able to confess your sins to others is part of the road of spiritual healing.... because you are no longer alone, but have those in your spiritual family to lift you up, pray for you, and give you edification and correction. People do confess. They don't chose pubic forums to do so.
quote - God never expected any one to be a spiritual island. This is not part of his plan. His plan was for us to live as a family helping and correcting each other. I agree!
There is not this same openness in the friends and workers church from my experience. There are a lot of hush hush, and don't talk about that..... Why did Jesus refuse to talk about Judas, either before or after the betrayal?
quote - I believe if the group was more open to discussing group and personal problems, there would be a larger degree of spiritual healing of the group. This type of interaction works towards perfecting of the group. Our church does not focus on an individual's sin. We focus upon Christ, and this is meant to lift us.
quote - But because this often doesn't happen.... I do believe in my experience that it tends to breed those and long as "No one find out" Christians. Why do you judge my belief by someone who isn't living that belief?
quote - At least this is the way it was with my friends.... and myself to be honest..... I only found true spiritual help and healing after leaving the group. I wasn't saying to myself continually... Oppsss... I did it agian... sorry god... I will do better.... Oppsss.... I did it agian.... sorry god..... I will do better... Over and over and over... Once I had the help I needed.... I got out the that vicious cycle... I realized that even if no one was seeing me do it it was damaging to the church as a whole, my fellowship, and my spiritual well being...... Okay, you feel the need to be open, then why don't you discuss your problem here on the TMB?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 6:09:25 GMT -5
GloryInTruth. Hi, glad to see your entry! I always appreciate your thoughtful and intelligent responses. But... please don't read or reply to Brad's silly posts. He writes these to annoy people. He is easy to catch out with his logic fallacies, lack of facts, rude persona and bad example to whatever cult he is now in.
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Post by Hum on Jul 23, 2007 6:23:25 GMT -5
A+B=B+A=C=C-B=C-A This is a correct statement.
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Post by Ops on Jul 23, 2007 6:31:02 GMT -5
A+B=B+A=C=C-B=C-AThis is a correct statement. I wrote it wrong (My Bad) A+B=B+A=C and A=C-A and so forthAnyway you can see there can be more then one = sign
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Post by Gee Its to early on Jul 23, 2007 6:33:02 GMT -5
A+B=B+A=C=C-B=C-AThis is a correct statement. I wrote it wrong (My Bad) A+B=B+A=C and A=C-A and so forthAnyway you can see there can be more then one = sign A+B=B+A=C and AB=C-A and so forth
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Post by Peacemaker on Jul 23, 2007 8:56:04 GMT -5
I wrote it wrong (My Bad) A+B=B+A=C and A=C-A and so forthAnyway you can see there can be more then one = sign A+B=B+A=C and AB=C-A and so forth Let me join in the fun. A rule of mathematics states that things that are equal to the same thing are equal to one another. For example , if A+B = C+D and F+G = C+D, then A+B = C+D=F+G. That is your mathematics lesson for today. ;D
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Openly Together Fellowshipping
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Post by Openly Together Fellowshipping on Jul 24, 2007 4:07:39 GMT -5
quote - "From my experience personally, many of the young friends held this very dogma "As long as you don't get caught" It was OK to drink, smoke, club, party, have pre marital relationships. As long as no one who mattered (parents, workers, elders, etc.) never found out about it. So basically as long as they didn't have to suffer the consequences. Well, such people have to learn as we all must. Don't judge a belief's principles by the breach of those principles.quote - I am sure this is not only in this religious group. From what I have learned is that all groups are basically the same, and with the same bad and good. The biggest difference I find though is that many Christians in other groups are open to discussing the problems such as sexual addictions, porn, drinking, and to help people over come. They do not readily judge and condemn. They try to help people correct their problems. er... how do you say porn, sex addiction and drinking is a "problem" if you are not judging these issues? Maybe they are not problems? Many Christians say you 'shouldn't judge" people for things that are their nature.quote - Many problems in the friends and workers church are hush hush and don't talk about them in open. Trouble is, a lot of people don't think these things are sins, and boast. Others want to confess freely to the world and join the victimhood society.I was even told that it is not our place to admit our sins to those who fellowship (that this is something only icky catholics do... confession... but that is between you and god.) I believe that be able to confess your sins to others is part of the road of spiritual healing.... because you are no longer alone, but have those in your spiritual family to lift you up, pray for you, and give you edification and correction. People do confess. They don't chose pubic forums to do so.quote - God never expected any one to be a spiritual island. This is not part of his plan. His plan was for us to live as a family helping and correcting each other. I agree!There is not this same openness in the friends and workers church from my experience. There are a lot of hush hush, and don't talk about that..... Why did Jesus refuse to talk about Judas, either before or after the betrayal?quote - I believe if the group was more open to discussing group and personal problems, there would be a larger degree of spiritual healing of the group. This type of interaction works towards perfecting of the group. Our church does not focus on an individual's sin. We focus upon Christ, and this is meant to lift us.quote - But because this often doesn't happen.... I do believe in my experience that it tends to breed those and long as "No one find out" Christians. Why do you judge my belief by someone who isn't living that belief? quote - At least this is the way it was with my friends.... and myself to be honest..... I only found true spiritual help and healing after leaving the group. I wasn't saying to myself continually... Oppsss... I did it agian... sorry god... I will do better.... Oppsss.... I did it agian.... sorry god..... I will do better... Over and over and over... Once I had the help I needed.... I got out the that vicious cycle... I realized that even if no one was seeing me do it it was damaging to the church as a whole, my fellowship, and my spiritual well being...... Okay, you feel the need to be open, then why don't you discuss your problem here on the TMB?Bert Not one time in the fellowship did I hear a person confess there problems to one another... NOT ONCE.... When I grew up in the church, anything that wasn't the appearance of what a professing person should look like or act like... WAS TABOO. A no talk about issue. I often heard... Oh, I wish I could do better... I want to try to do better, and be more pleasing.... I want to read and pray more and be more willing so god can help me.... But the friends never opened up to each other about what that struggle actually was, or what they were having problems with.... And I NEVER ONCE heard the friends pray for each other by name together.... What are they afraid of? And how are we suppose to go to god and pray in secret if we do not know what those struggles are? What is so wrong with having personalized prayers? They are not doing it to be seen of men, because they are a body and a church, they are unified and one, they are not doing it for the world to see, but because they love each other.... and are a spiritual family.... Often times when I went to the workers.... I was told just to pray about it.... What can we do, we are only workers.... It has nothing to do with us, we can not change it... So just pray about it.... I have been praying about.... but are not the prayers of many, better then the prayers of one.... They are suppose to help each other through love, giving them the things which are needful to the soul... We are one body, one family, built on Christ. We are suppose to live together, share our sorrows, share our struggles, share our worship and our praise... Share our most heart felt, gut level feelings.... Our deepest inner most thoughts, prayers, and struggles.... This leads to true fellowship. Fellowship should be very personal and very intament... Just like our private prayer and worship to God is personal and intament.... If we loved and trusted one another, and if we had the love of god in us for one another, we wouldn't fear sharing our problems with each other.... Because we would know that we have each others interest at heart.... That we would want to help each other.... Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Matthews 18: 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Problems and faults are handled by the church by the community. Because we are all part of the body, it is important that we keep each other spiritual healthy. A disease in any on part of the body, can have an effect on the body as a whole. God did not want us to over look these problems, or push them under the rug. He wanted us to openly address them and correct them. 1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all [men]. All working toward the perfecting of the church. If we are in light, we should walk as we are in the light. Nothing hidden. Darkness hides a multitude of sins. But in the light all sins are brought out and dealt with and forgiven by our wonderful God. You can mock what I say Bert. But I will follow Christ my Lord and Savior and what he has taught me. PS I never said you should confess on a public forum, I said you should confess it to the church. To your spiritual family. To those who are suppose to love you, edify you, exhort you, and correct you. Not accusing. Not excusing. But loving correct and spiritual healing. Not alone. Not just saying to some one... yeah go pray about it. But working as a body and a family the way god intended.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 24, 2007 9:44:09 GMT -5
Bert Not one time in the fellowship did I hear a person confess there problems to one another... NOT ONCE....
I would have to say that I HAVE heard people confess their sins/problems one to another. Often people would stop in my parents home. My parents were "the counselors" in the area, mainly for those who were having trouble in their marriages.
Growing up, I have also had "mentors" I talked to who were professing. Even though they were quite a bit older than me, we would share our problems and issues.
A relative of mine also has several professing people in his area that he talks to about certain issues in his life and marriage.
So, I see A LOT of this.
But, on the other hand, I also saw where people went to others for help, to talk about their problems, and were shunned or gossiped about. However, I dont think this is exclusive to the 2x2s.
One thing I WISH was done more in meetings that we do in our bible study group at church is prayer requests. We openly share our requests for prayer (which, often means sharing bits and pieces of the problems we're going through), along with praise prayer requests.
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 25, 2007 23:11:25 GMT -5
Why dont' they? The ones who did pray about problems left the cult. You're with the wrong crowd. Brad
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 25, 2007 23:12:17 GMT -5
Yes, I love it when 2x2s make fools out of themselves in extreme ways. God likes 'em either hot or cold. You upset at God too? Brad
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Post by _ on Jul 26, 2007 0:47:34 GMT -5
Yes, I love it when 2x2s make fools out of themselves in extreme ways. Because your heart is where? You love to mock and laugh at others brad.. what does that say about you? ridicule is in your heart... not love... not joy... not peace... not grace...
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Post by B on Jul 26, 2007 4:02:25 GMT -5
bump
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