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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 10:00:59 GMT -5
On another thread it was asserted that the workers in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming have not claimed to use the Matt10 pattern/format of ministry for at least 30 years.
I am genuinely interested if others can share their observations on this.
A few questions:
1.Have you ever heard the workers preach that they follow the Matt10 pattern when Jesus sent out his 12 (and 70 in Luke)?
2.If so, when was the last time you heard it?
3.What is your approx geographical area? a.West US and Canada b.East US and Canada c.NZ/Aust d.Other
4.Have you ever heard a worker preach that they do not follow Matt10?
Thanks in advance for all replies!
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Post by selah on Jul 18, 2007 10:43:39 GMT -5
1. Yes 2. 1952-1980 (I left meetings in 1980) More recently I have heard some of the friends make statements to that effect, especially on the internet, and their locations have been primarily US (not sure east or west). 3. Central and Western Canada...Manitoba and Alberta. 4. No
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Post by las logged out on Jul 18, 2007 10:57:00 GMT -5
I am in process of reading secret sect book again finding it all interesting..that is what it looks like they were bound and determined to relive the gospels and seek to go out same way early apsotles did and such
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Post by Wondering on Jul 18, 2007 11:11:56 GMT -5
When do they practice healing the sick and raising the dead. I would like to be there for these events.
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Post by Wondering on Jul 18, 2007 11:17:52 GMT -5
My family comes first.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 11:18:25 GMT -5
When do they practice healing the sick and raising the dead. I would like to be there for these events. Wondering, the question is not regarding what they do or don't do, but what they preach. Any experience on this?
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Post by i am professing on Jul 18, 2007 11:50:32 GMT -5
And I live in Beaveryon Oregon yes a stones throw from the person who claimed otherwise. In this area we still believe that our ministers are the only ones who follow the pattern set by Jesus as set out in Matt. This Nathan person needs to get out to more meetings.
If he is who I think he is, the workers have warned our meeting about him and his lies. Don't put any stock in what he says. He claims to be one of us but he NEVER was.
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Post by Wondering on Jul 18, 2007 11:55:16 GMT -5
When do they practice healing the sick and raising the dead. I would like to be there for these events. Wondering, the question is not regarding what they do or don't do, but what they preach. Any experience on this? I've heard them speak. I've heard a LOT of people speak. Actions speak louder than words. Do they follow Matt 10 or not? Let's see some actions.
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Post by juliette on Jul 18, 2007 12:02:41 GMT -5
On another thread it was asserted that the workers in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming have not claimed to use the Matt10 pattern/format of ministry for at least 30 years. I am genuinely interested if others can share their observations on this. A few questions: 1.Have you ever heard the workers preach that they follow the Matt10 pattern when Jesus sent out his 12 (and 70 in Luke)? 2.If so, when was the last time you heard it? 3.What is your approx geographical area? a.West US and Canada b.East US and Canada c.NZ/Aust d.Other 4.Have you ever heard a worker preach that they do not follow Matt10? Thanks in advance for all replies! 1. So many times I can't begin to count them; in gospel meeting, from workers visiting in our home, from friends justifying the 2x2 religion. 2. I professed in 1976. We left last year. I can't recall last time I heard this preached, it was a pervasive subject in gospel meetings. 3. MN (is that east or west US?) 4. No
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 12:08:10 GMT -5
Thanks julliette. You are "east". East in the F&W world basically means east of the Rockies with a few exceptions. Montana and WY are "west", CO is "east". In Canada, "east" is east of Thunder Bay Ontario.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 18, 2007 12:16:53 GMT -5
Howdy, i am professing posted in part (concerning Nathan): ..........If he is who I think he is, the workers have warned our meeting about him and his lies. Don't put any stock in what he says. He claims to be one of us but he NEVER was. Kinda hard for me to believe this statement since Nathan was a worker at one time. You may deny that he now speaks for your group, but he as well as several others who post here used to be workers. How can you claim that they were never a part of your group? Pretty much ALL of us who post here were a part of your group. Scott
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Post by never was on Jul 18, 2007 12:21:18 GMT -5
"Never was" goes along with "never had it." "It" being "the spirit." Also along this line is what John wrote [paraphrase] "They went out from us because they were not of us."
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Jul 18, 2007 19:18:24 GMT -5
Dear I am professing
You claim Nathan never was one of us ------
I wonder if the workers know this???
- he was a worker-
so this doesn't make sense?
Perhaps he does need to go to some more Gospel Meetings. What do you say about this Nathan?
sharon
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Post by juliette on Jul 18, 2007 22:15:50 GMT -5
On another thread it was asserted that the workers in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming have not claimed to use the Matt10 pattern/format of ministry for at least 30 years. I am genuinely interested if others can share their observations on this. A few questions: 1.Have you ever heard the workers preach that they follow the Matt10 pattern when Jesus sent out his 12 (and 70 in Luke)? 2.If so, when was the last time you heard it? 3.What is your approx geographical area? a.West US and Canada b.East US and Canada c.NZ/Aust d.Other 4.Have you ever heard a worker preach that they do not follow Matt10? Thanks in advance for all replies! How can any 2x2 worker claims he/she is following Matthew 10 when Jesus told the apostles Go "NOT" among the Gentiles but go rather to the LOST sheep House of Israel.
And as you go! preach, saying the kingdom of God is at hand... HEAL the sick! cleanse the lepers, RAISE the dead, cast out demons...
~~ My question is have you seen any of the 2x2 worker have done this TODAY! Heal the sick, cleanse the Lepers, Raise the DEAD and cast out demons... if they haven't done this then how can they claim they follow Matthew 10? Good questions that have been asked by many! Even on this board!
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workers repudiate Nathan
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Post by workers repudiate Nathan on Jul 18, 2007 22:17:20 GMT -5
I just got back from dinner with my local workers. They said that part of Matt 10 is meant to be spiritual healing.
They assured me that they are the only people who follow these instructions and that it proves that they are the ONLY correct ministry. They also told me to stay away from the internet.
When I told them that it was a "professing' person who claimed that they no longer follow Matt 10--they had a cow!
Nathan--you are a rebel! I respect that and like most of what you have to say, but I can assure you that the workers do not support your beliefs. They told me you have a different spirit--are teaching differently from their beliefs and that you are trying to get a following for yourself. I need to beware for the salvation of my soul and have nothing to do with you. I was instructed to not look at your website--that it is all lies and trash.
That is straight from the horses mouth--or at least from the mouths of 2 sister workers.
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joh
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Post by joh on Jul 19, 2007 0:13:26 GMT -5
I have to disagree with "i am professing guest".
I have been referred to Nathan's web page by a worker.
I was just talking to a friend of mine who professes and she and I discussed going to a Gospel meeting years ago and heard Nathan speak.
Why would anyone take seriously a worker telling them not to use the internet when so many workers use computers and do research on the Internet themselves. Isn't that hypocritical?
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joh
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Post by joh on Jul 19, 2007 0:42:39 GMT -5
Oh of course Jay W. I could not remember who you were with when you were here on the coast. (Oregon coast of course) My friend and I were trying to remember who you were with.
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 19, 2007 3:08:34 GMT -5
Jay Wicks is the son of Milo Wicks who went out at night with Phu Nguyen's wife. Jay Wicks was the worker that was told of his father's night time activities with Milo's wife, but didn't deal with the issue. Jay Wicks is the worker who likes others to come to the conclusion that he is an apostle. Ha ha, Jay Wicks, ha ha ha is ha ha aaa Here's part of an email from Jay Wicks who will no longer write to me because he doesn't think it's useful because I don't think he's an apostle. ha ha ha Now you had another question as to whether or not I teach in Africa or here on this side that I am an apostle of Jesus Christ like Paul or Peter and if not, then what office do you say you fill? Of course to us an apostle is simply a sent one or one sent by God so I guess you could say the office I fill is indeed that of an apostle. I don't suppose I've ever preached it as I would prefer that those listening would make up their own minds. Brad, if you feel that I am not sent from God then it would seem to me a waste of your time to continue this dialog. I feel secure in who I am and am not offended if you feel otherwise. Sincerely yours, JayBrad Brad
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Post by wicks the aposrle on Jul 19, 2007 3:17:28 GMT -5
Wow! Wicks what a blast from my past! I dated him a time or two as a young girl! (not serious kind of hanging around group dates lot of flirting--a little alone time -oh the memories! There was some petting though....awkward kissing etc
An apostle you say? pretty full of himself now I think! glad I got over him!
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 19, 2007 21:11:47 GMT -5
Wow! Wicks what a blast from my past! I dated him a time or two as a young girl! (not serious kind of hanging around group dates lot of flirting--a little alone time -oh the memories! There was some petting though....awkward kissing etc An apostle you say? pretty full of himself now I think! glad I got over him! Tell me about it. I was so in love with a professing girl once. Wow! Then I saw who she married and how she turned out. Praise God nothing else happened between us. Brad
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Post by crazy Nathan on Jul 20, 2007 20:30:51 GMT -5
Dear I am professing You claim Nathan never was one of us ------ I wonder if the workers know this??? - he was a worker- so this doesn't make sense? Perhaps he does need to go to some more Gospel Meetings. What do you say about this Nathan? sharon Don't too much stock on annoymous poster/s. He/she can say anything.... you don't know who he/she is.... it can be my TMB ex-fans club is stirring the pot.
This annoymous poster's writings don't make too much sense. Most of the Beaverton friends attend Boring I, II conventions. I have spoken at Boring convention for all of my years in the work how could I not be part of the group.
Don't take the anonymous posts too seriously, folks.
To so-called I am professing: I attend Boring I, II convention every year since 1986-2006. I was in the work from 86-94. How couldn't I be part of the 2x2 group? Can you explain to us, please. Thanks.
Ed Alexander a fairly senior worker says that if you are claiming that the workers do not follow Matt 10--then you never got it. I am sure you and your "following" believe otherwise--but you are here teaching things that go against the group. Therefore, they do not claim you. That is just how it goes. Sorry. Obviously there are a few that do not repudiate your teachings--the "church" has no uniformity of teaching. I say go for it--the more you pontificate, the more obvious the divides within this group are! And the fact that the same the world over is a huge lie!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2007 6:38:52 GMT -5
Nathan, I think we quite agree on the whole Matt10 issue except on what the workers are claiming. None repudiate Matt10, some no longer preach it, most continue to claim it as the pattern for their ministry.
Otherwise we agree. The workers do not follow Matt10 in reality, nor should they. It was a special mission and ended just prior to Jesus' arrest.
I feel sorry for the workers who try to preach this. In order make it sound like they are following Matt10 they have to twist it and themselves so far out of shape to make it sound plausible that one hardly recognizes the story.
If the story about Ed A is true, it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't understand Matt10. He doesn't understand baptism either, so it would make sense he has blinders on regarding Matt10. I hope he gets honest and gains some understanding on these important issues.
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Post by ANDREW M on Jul 21, 2007 10:06:36 GMT -5
I think it is to Nathan's great credit that he openly refutes the Matt.10 origins and beliefs.
The Matt.10 "irrevelation" is one of the key foundations of Irvinism, still commonly believed and held dear by many workers today.
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Post by never was on Jul 21, 2007 10:19:15 GMT -5
To anonymous: hmmmmmm.... when did I (Nathan) went out from us (2x2)? because I was NOT one of you (2x2). I Can't recall this at all. Perhaps, you can tell me what year or when did this happen according to you. Thanks.When or what year did I leave the 2x2 and became an ex-2x2? I never wrote nor implied that you were not a member of the workers' church. This is another indication of your understanding of the written word and should help you accept your failing in your research. All I did was explain how someone could be in the church and said to not be of the church. That being said, one could contend you started to not be a friend of the workers when you started to become a 2x2. The friends and workers are not 2x2s. You are a 2x2. Your rejection of Matthew 10 shows the change and difference. You once thrust that out to anyone that rejected the workers' ministry. "Matthew10....Mathhew 10..."
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 21, 2007 11:43:34 GMT -5
Our dear Nate,
With all due affection, you need to be careful here! At this rate you are going to end up "one of us" (x's) LOL!
Rest assured that Christ will receive you with open arms whether the F & W excommunicate you or not! The workers and friends are irrelevant to your relationship with Jesus/God......but you already know that, I think.
When the "crutch" of the F & W (Or any other crutch) is behind us is when we really begin our walk with God with a fullness as never known before.
With love in Him, Edy
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 21, 2007 16:48:39 GMT -5
Ah yes, And the workers have new teachings and the teachings of Jesus no longer apply. Ah Yes, and the group is now a cult, so no longer is under the guidlines of obeying God's word. They are free to pick and choose their cult followers. Oppression, slander and libel are all valid tools to create conformity so that they may be one with Nathan. Wooo hooo Nathan. You tell those workers. Brad
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Post by go for it on Jul 21, 2007 17:31:37 GMT -5
Nathan, I think we quite agree on the whole Matt10 issue except on what the workers are claiming. None repudiate Matt10, some no longer preach it, most continue to claim it as the pattern for their ministry. Otherwise we agree. The workers do not follow Matt10 in reality, nor should they. It was a special mission and ended just prior to Jesus' arrest. I feel sorry for the workers who try to preach this. In order make it sound like they are following Matt10 they have to twist it and themselves so far out of shape to make it sound plausible that one hardly recognizes the story. If the story about Ed A is true, it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't understand Matt10. He doesn't understand baptism either, so it would make sense he has blinders on regarding Matt10. I hope he gets honest and gains some understanding on these important issues. I know Ed A.... I don't trust or believe anonymous poster/s claimed about Ed. These anonymous can say anything and get away with it. If they don't like some worker or want to get them in trouble just make up a good, sincere stories and many people will believe it as the truth...
Ed, is a godly man and mature brother... I have a great respect for him... When I see Ed again I will ask him about some anonymous has mentioned on here about him teaches and believes the workers today "follow" Matthew 10 instruction as a pattern in our generation.
Thanks, again CD... I say you're right on the money about some workers misinterpreted matthew chapter 10 completely, it has confused the listeners' understanding on this beautiful chapter.
Jesus and the apostles Itinerant 2x2 ministry has continued through down the ages "BUT NOT" by FOLLOWING the Matthew 10 or Luke 10 instructions as the PERFECT pattern for ALL generation because it wasn't MEANT to be FOLLOW at ALL once the Messiah has come and proved to the Jews He WAS the Anointed Lamb of God who came to shed His precious blood for our sins on Calvary's Cross.
That was one of the reasons He and his apostles showed miracles mostly to the Jews and Lost Sheep House of Israel during the time of Jesus' ministry. If you are going to speak to all the workers who preach Matt 10 and do not agree with your interpretation with the goal of correcting them so that they come around to your interpretation--all I can say is that you have a lot of work cut out for you--and good luck! You are most unusual and unique--but your opinions are definitely NOT what is being taught in the mainstream and there is little chance that they will change to follow your beliefs. After all, you are not a worker any more and are barely considered to be part of the group at all, a marginal "friend" at best. i personally (privately) agree with your interprettion of Matt 10--however you woud be run out of meetings on a rail if you came to our senior workers and tried to get them to preach in agreement with you. BTW, Scott Wainwright is a relative of mine---he des not preach the same "gospel' that you do!
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Post by good for you on Jul 21, 2007 18:49:15 GMT -5
1) If you are going to speak to all the workers who preach Matt 10 and do not agree with your interpretation with the goal of correcting them so that they come around to your interpretation--all I can say is that you have a lot of work cut out for you--and good luck! You are most unusual and unique--but your opinions are definitely NOT what is being taught in the mainstream and there is little chance that they will change to follow your beliefs. After all, you are not a worker any more and are barely considered to be part of the group at all, a marginal "friend" at best. ~~~ Thanks, for your post I have been wanting to post an article on Matthew 10 on my website.... let the friends, the workers or whoever reads it make their own decision, believe it or NOT it is up to them. As I have written before PEOPLE are MUCH smarter now become of Internet information age. People KNOW and UNDERSTAND the scriptures more than the workers think.
My main concern is sharing and teachings what the Lord has revealed it to me.... people can believe it or not it is up to them.
2) i personally (privately) agree with your interprettion of Matt 10--however you woud be run out of meetings on a rail if you came to our senior workers and tried to get them to preach in agreement with you. BTW, Scott Wainwright is a relative of mine---he des not preach the same "gospel' that you do! ~~ Yes, I know who your cousin is. I've talked with his ex-girl friend and him once in Greg's chatroom before he went in the work. She had a lot of questions about this fellowship and she wanted some answers just for herself.
My concern is not worrying that the workers agreeing with my understanding or intepretation of Matthew 10 or not. I just hope and pray that they will read, and pray earnestly to the Lord Himself to reveal His truth to them, this way they can preach and teach the correct interpretation on Matthew chapter 10 and Luke 10 so others will NOT call them false teachers.
A true servant of God will not wilfully continue to TEACH false teachings to others.
How can anyone have faith in your Gospel meetings if you continue to teach false teachings or incorrect doctrines.
You go Nathan! I am 100% behind you--this is long overdue. You are a godly man trying your best--I hope you have a good influeve on those who are astray. I wonder why Scott's ex girlfriend would have needed answers? Just curious. The girl I remember him dating the most had family that went back in this quite a ways (1920s)--and she knew as much as anybody about it. I know her pretty well and It is hard to imagine her cruising chat rooms and interrogating ex workers to get answers about anything. Are you sure it was her and not an impersonator?
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