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Post by nathan on Oct 13, 2017 21:15:02 GMT -5
Read the first chapter of Rev.... God translated John to heavenly realm, he could hear and see when They/God unveiled the current and future events before him. I would say he was on some pretty strong "stuff" ! So in fact it was John who wrote it not Jesus like you stated nathan ? hahaha I don't think SO! In the Old Testament we read God translated Enoch and the Prophet Elijah to LIVE in heavenly realm without go through death experience.
John the apostle heard from Jesus own mouth, "I am Alpha and Omega, the Almighty God."
Rev. 1:7-9 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I, John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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Post by speak on Oct 13, 2017 23:40:53 GMT -5
The only reason you left is because satan has beguiled you. If you choose to submit to the authority of God's Word it will all fall into place for you. The key though is submission. Time to try it then
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 23:45:17 GMT -5
Oh and BTW, how does anyone know that God is sitting at God's right hand in heaven? Who witnessed that, exactly? apparently mark...
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 14, 2017 0:07:14 GMT -5
Oh and BTW, how does anyone know that God is sitting at God's right hand in heaven? Who witnessed that, exactly? apparently mark...
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Post by nathan on Oct 14, 2017 0:17:41 GMT -5
1) Skeptical AL wrote: Mark 16:19 (NIV) "After the Lord Jesus [God] had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of [Himself] God." Really?! How does one sit at one's own right hand? Oh and BTW, how does anyone know that God is sitting at God's right hand in heaven? Who witnessed that, exactly?
Well, in Acts 7:54-56 Stephen saw Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of God. when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But Stephen, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep/died.
~~ Jesus Christ/God the Son standing on the right hand of His heavenly Father/God.
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Post by snow on Oct 15, 2017 14:12:06 GMT -5
Jesus never wrote revelations (in fact, he ever wrote anything). Someone who thought this about Jesus, wrote it. It certainly doesn't prove Jesus is God. Well, John the apostle was there in heaven and he heard Jesus Christ said " I am the Almighty God." I don't believe John would LIE about it.
John heard and wrote what Jesus said in the gospel John too! in John 8:56-58 Jesus said, " Before Abraham was born I AM (that I AM the eternal God).
He probably didn't think he was lying. Most people have beliefs and they don't see them as lying. It doesn't mean it's true though just because we believe it. That includes my beliefs too of course. For me, reading John's work, he was a lot like some of the New Age believers I've run into. They are quite earnest about what they believe but it doesn't make their beliefs true. The only thing I trust is a method like science that can prove, be replicated and changed when found to be false. That's where I come from and how I base things to true or not. The supernatural will never be able to give me that so I don't believe it's true.
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Post by snow on Oct 15, 2017 14:31:38 GMT -5
If you choose to submit to the authority of God's Word it will all fall into place for you. The key though is submission. Time to try it then Now speak. Be nice. That sounds like what theists are saying atheists are doing. Being disparaging of another's beliefs. This type of thing is exactly what atheists are talking about though. Even theists can't agree and disparage each other's various 'different than theirs' beliefs. And, yes speak, I do realize that Ross does that to the 2x2's all the time. But by their very nature, religious beliefs have no proof just faith that what you believe is 'truth'.
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Post by nathan on Oct 15, 2017 14:38:32 GMT -5
Well, John the apostle was there in heaven and he heard Jesus Christ said " I am the Almighty God." I don't believe John would LIE about it.
John heard and wrote what Jesus said in the gospel John too! in John 8:56-58 Jesus said, " Before Abraham was born I AM (that I AM the eternal God).
He probably didn't think he was lying. Most people have beliefs and they don't see them as lying. It doesn't mean it's true though just because we believe it. That includes my beliefs too of course. For me, reading John's work, he was a lot like some of the New Age believers I've run into. They are quite earnest about what they believe but it doesn't make their beliefs true. The only thing I trust is a method like science that can prove, be replicated and changed when found to be false. That's where I come from and how I base things to true or not. The supernatural will never be able to give me that so I don't believe it's true. What Jesus said in the book of Revelation "I am the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty/God." matches what he said in the gospel of John and other gospels and the apostles epistles.
1) Paul wrote in I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the Flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory.
2) The apostle Thomas said to Jesus after the resurrection, "My Lord and My God" in John 20:24-29. Jesus did NOT say don't call me Lord and God but accepted the title which Thomas called Him.
3) Mary the mother of Jesus said about the unborn Son in Luke 1:46-47 “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior."
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Post by Jason Storebo on Oct 15, 2017 16:26:02 GMT -5
Fundamentalism will tell you that you will go to eternal hell if you don't believe in the trinity. Isn't it good to know that wonderful people go to hell for eternity, but some nasty, evil, person gets to go to heaven just 'cuase they "believed" in somebodies version of "correct" doctrine, upon their deathbed.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 15, 2017 16:53:46 GMT -5
Sorry folks but the 3rd =VS3kfn etc above,is not what I would read or offer to anyone.. Love Magpie Rubbish!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 16:54:24 GMT -5
Fundamentalism will tell you that you will go to eternal hell if you don't believe in the trinity. Isn't it good to know that wonderful people go to hell for eternity, but some nasty, evil, person gets to go to heaven just 'cuase they "believed" in somebodies version of "correct" doctrine, upon their deathbed. thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey...
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Post by snow on Oct 15, 2017 19:30:52 GMT -5
Fundamentalism will tell you that you will go to eternal hell if you don't believe in the trinity. Isn't it good to know that wonderful people go to hell for eternity, but some nasty, evil, person gets to go to heaven just 'cuase they "believed" in somebodies version of "correct" doctrine, upon their deathbed. thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey... Not always, look at the thief on the cross.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 20:58:22 GMT -5
thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey... Not always, look at the thief on the cross. well thats more an exception rather than the rule...
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Post by nathan on Oct 15, 2017 21:53:50 GMT -5
thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey... Not always, look at the thief on the cross. The thief repented and asked Jesus to forgive him and to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Then Jesus said to the thief, "Today, thou shall be with me in paradise."
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Post by nathan on Oct 15, 2017 21:59:05 GMT -5
Fundamentalism will tell you that you will go to eternal hell if you don't believe in the trinity. Isn't it good to know that wonderful people go to hell for eternity, but some nasty, evil, person gets to go to heaven just 'cuase they "believed" in somebodies version of "correct" doctrine, upon their deathbed. Every believer must first, believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior.... then the Holy Spirit will reveal to the believers eventually He is the Lord God Yahweh, who created the Universe. Christ is Almighty God. We can't comprehend Godhead functions overnight, it takes time for the Holy Spirit to reveal these things to us slowly! Our minds can't comprehend everything about the Godhead all at once. Our head/computer will be overloaded and go Kaput. ONE step at a time.
NOT every believer are on the same level of understanding.... Some are slow learners and others catch on things faster. Some are stubborn, ignorance is blissed, others like child-like spirits, like the sponges able to soak, absolve things fast.
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Post by blandie on Oct 16, 2017 3:07:05 GMT -5
thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey... It is jesus's obedience that counts toward our righteousness and not something we do and even our faith is a gift from god not something we can produce out of our own works.
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Post by nathan on Oct 16, 2017 7:51:16 GMT -5
thats not how it works...you have to believe AND obey... It is jesus's obedience that counts toward our righteousness and not something we do and even our faith is a gift from god not something we can produce out of our own works. Our part is to accept and believed in Faith. John 1:12 many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name, which were born not of flesh, nor of the will of man but of God.
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Post by nathan on Oct 16, 2017 7:55:36 GMT -5
Time to try it then Yep - I did try and it and it resulted in me leaving the 2x2 church. From the time that William Irvine and co introduced exclusivity, rejection of salvation of grace by faith in Christ, denial of Jesus being part of the Godhead, the church was well and truly rejecting the authority of Scripture and introducing its own authority. The workers need to repent and accept God's Word. The RCC teaches exclusivity.... So, did the Vaudois and many of the Protestants denominations are the same. Don't try to fool yourself..... William Irvine and Co. were NOT the first and ONLY group believe and teach exclusivity. Jesus was very exclusive Savior/teacher, "I am the Way, the Truth and Life no man comes unto the Father except through me."
The workers denied Christ is part of the Godhead, but they believe he is the Son of God... that is believing in the Godhead but they don't fully understand who are part of the Godhead. They believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father but NOT the Son or the Holy Spirit.
However, some workers and some of the friends have a clear understanding of the Godhead= Trinity or Triune God is God the Father, Christ the Lord God and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2017 15:24:20 GMT -5
Not always, look at the thief on the cross. well thats more an exception rather than the rule... Maybe but I was trying to give you an example.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2017 15:27:46 GMT -5
Time to try it then Yep - I did try and it and it resulted in me leaving the 2x2 church. From the time that William Irvine and co introduced exclusivity, rejection of salvation of grace by faith in Christ, denial of Jesus being part of the Godhead, the church was well and truly rejecting the authority of Scripture and introducing its own authority. The workers need to repent and accept God's Word. Ross, all of Christianity is exclusive. They don't even accept each others views and they really really don't accept another religions views. Do you believe that Muslims are saved worshiping Allah? If you do, I think you are in a minority of Christians.
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Post by magpie on Oct 25, 2017 18:31:35 GMT -5
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