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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2017 0:17:39 GMT -5
Matthew 12,v,31---So I tell you every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven--except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit ,which will never be forgiven. Richard Harbur of the 2x2's in ND.He said the idea of God and Jesus being the same is the "doctrine of the Devil" and the Devil wants to eliminate submission. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrp7cMDCZgswww.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaVfc-g-JEwww.youtube.com/watch?v= VS3kfnCH2CA Remember that using a word to explain an item or situation such as those used to describe the God the Father,God the Son and God's Spirit (HOLY SPIRIT) is far more biblical than a preacher only ministry,isn't it? Ephesians 4,v,11/12 = It was He who gave gifts to "mankind",He appointed some to be Apostles,others to be Prophets,others to be Evangelists,others to "BE PASTORS AND TEACHERS". He did this to prepare "ALL" God's people for the work of Christian Service.' (Over the decades wouldn't us,many,many, victims of Worker"S" criminal (CSA) Child sexual abuse,loved compassionate Pastoral care. That supposed clever Bernie Manning said these verses are not relevant today,he also denied knowledge of the sale of the Convention Grounds OH!!PROPERTY??,being sold in the name of Christian Assemblies of Australia Reg'd by Bill Carroll around 1930. (Now Christian Conventions of Victoria,reg'd Denomination and Charity,ask them if you want to be lied too). Now does the Bernies of the 2x2s agree with Richard Harbur,If you believe it you are being led down the plug hole,and you know where that finishes up?. www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-m9sRRN9MA. PS, If your Preachers and you don't agree with Richard Harbur,He, as in scriptures teach must be taken before the people(as Bible explains)and be charged with heresy. As the bible says so others wont follow that blasphemas teachings sin.
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2017 0:20:25 GMT -5
Sorry folks but the 3rd =VS3kfn etc above,is not what I would read or offer to anyone.. Love Magpie
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Post by nathan on Sept 28, 2017 0:37:29 GMT -5
Matthew 12,v,31---So I tell you every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven--except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit ,which will never be forgiven. Richard Harbur of the 2x2's in ND.He said the idea of God and Jesus being the same is the "doctrine of the Devil" and the Devil wants to eliminate submission. I agree these workers need to have their Godhead teaching re-examined or study it more carefully.... They don't fully understand who are the Godhead. They don't understand the word of God El is singular and the word God Elohim is plural= Godhead; Father, Christ and Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Most High God in heaven. The Christ is God, who came from heaven to live in the body of Jesus/man to die for our sins, and he is still under submission to God the Father for eternity
The Holy Spirit is also God. One Godhead but exists as 3 separate beings. ONE in Unity, ONE in Spirit and ONE in Love. ALL three are working in harmony with each other. Each Godhead has important role to fill in our Salvation.
It seems MANY workers and the friends today believe the word God refers or reserves ONLY to God the Father and NOT to Jesus. Jesus is ONLY the son of God.
Jesus is both the son of God while he was living on the earth and the I AM God Yahweh the Creator of the universe, the eternal God before the foundation of the world.
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2017 0:44:44 GMT -5
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2017 0:53:47 GMT -5
Nathan,I could hug you right now. Harbur's statement is a "BLASPHEMY"/"HERESY". The majority of Protestant persuasions would push him instantly away from the microphone,and apologize to their congregation within minutes,can't imagine the 2bee sect doing that,they work to keep paedophiles amongst their ministry, so, why not a heretic? Thanks again Nathan
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2017 17:35:07 GMT -5
People respond to "Will you go to Heaven with short hair?". But to the Richard Harbur statement,you don't "obviously" want to know. I believe you would have more chance going to Heaven with short haie than to do nothing to reject a terrible Heresy in your ministries teachings. The Epistles again give clear instructions to the Church-----------.1 Timothy 5.Do not listen to an accusation against an Elder unless it is brought by two or more witnesses. (This was Law in Jesus time one persons charge was not valid unless given by two or more,hence 2x2s think it relevent in todays Western Cultures Law)Rebuke publicly "ALL" those who commit sins,so that the rest might be afraid. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the Holy Angels I solomnly call upon you to "obey" these instructions without showing any prujudice or Favour (Not like Leitch towards Ernie Barry) to anyone in anything you do. Be in NO HURRY to LAY HANDS ON someone to dedicate them to the Lord's service. Take no part in the sins of others (inc'heresies);keep yourself pure. Just one simple word answer,"Is it a Heresy",YES or NO ?. I thought this heresy was of such importance to be deleted from any group's ministry that there would be at least 100 replies by now? We thought being lied to for decades about being nameless was bad enough,but this!!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 1, 2017 19:23:29 GMT -5
People respond to "Will you go to Heaven with short hair?". But to the Richard Harbur statement,you don't "obviously" want to know. I believe you would have more chance going to Heaven with short haie than to do nothing to reject a terrible Heresy in your ministries teachings. The Epistles again give clear instructions to the Church-----------.1 Timothy 5.Do not listen to an accusation against an Elder unless it is brought by two or more witnesses. (This was Law in Jesus time one persons charge was not valid unless given by two or more,hence 2x2s think it relevent in todays Western Cultures Law)Rebuke publicly "ALL" those who commit sins,so that the rest might be afraid. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the Holy Angels I solomnly call upon you to "obey" these instructions without showing any prujudice or Favour (Not like Leitch towards Ernie Barry) to anyone in anything you do. Be in NO HURRY to LAY HANDS ON someone to dedicate them to the Lord's service. Take no part in the sins of others (inc'heresies);keep yourself pure. Just one simple word answer,"Is it a Heresy",YES or NO ?. I thought this heresy was of such importance to be deleted from any group's ministry that there would be at least 100 replies by now? We thought being lied to for decades about being nameless was bad enough,but this!! It shows great dearth of scriptural understanding. To call something that is fully found in the Bible a heresy just because another sect of religion believes in it, is the heighth of stupidity. I'm surprised that they don't call believing in Jesus an heresy as many other sects of religion believe in Jesus.
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Post by speak on Oct 2, 2017 0:52:15 GMT -5
Matthew 12,v,31---So I tell you every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven--except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit ,which will never be forgiven. Richard Harbur of the 2x2's in ND.He said the idea of God and Jesus being the same is the "doctrine of the Devil" and the Devil wants to eliminate submission. I agree these workers need to have their Godhead teaching re-examined or study it more carefully.... They don't fully understand who are the Godhead. They don't understand the word of God El is singular and the word God Elohim is plural= Godhead; Father, Christ and Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Most High God in heaven. The Christ is God, who came from heaven to live in the body of Jesus/man to die for our sins, and he is still under submission to God the Father for eternity
The Holy Spirit is also God. One Godhead but exists as 3 separate beings. ONE in Unity, ONE in Spirit and ONE in Love. ALL three are working in harmony with each other. Each Godhead has important role to fill in our Salvation.
I have never heard a worker speak against or for the Godhead. I have never read anywhere where Jesus spoke of the Godhead, used the word Godhead. But I do read that He said follow me. So I can only surmise therefore it was of no great importance in the quest for salvation. I understand that the three are one and do not deny it is so. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. These are the things that are of the most importance to Jesus.
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Post by nathan on Oct 2, 2017 7:51:11 GMT -5
I agree these workers need to have their Godhead teaching re-examined or study it more carefully.... They don't fully understand who are the Godhead. They don't understand the word of God El is singular and the word God Elohim is plural= Godhead; Father, Christ and Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Most High God in heaven. The Christ is God, who came from heaven to live in the body of Jesus/man to die for our sins, and he is still under submission to God the Father for eternity
The Holy Spirit is also God. One Godhead but exists as 3 separate beings. ONE in Unity, ONE in Spirit and ONE in Love. ALL three are working in harmony with each other. Each Godhead has important role to fill in our Salvation.
I have never heard a worker speak against or for the Godhead. I have never read anywhere where Jesus spoke of the Godhead, used the word Godhead. But I do read that He said follow me. So I can only surmise therefore it was of no great importance in the quest for salvation. I understand that the three are one and do not deny it is so. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. These are the things that are of the most importance to Jesus. The word Godhead mentioned 3 times in the Bible by Paul. Romans 1:19, 20 states…
“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.”
Some people (such as Muslims) foolishly claim that belief in a Godhead (aka, Trinity) means worship of three gods (polytheism). This simply reflects their willfully ignorance of the Word of God. The LORD our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4); but He does exist in three Persons= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and the Holy Spirit..... Trinity or Triune God.... 3 Person but all agree as ONE.
Acts 17:29 states… “For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Colossians 2:9… “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”
1st John 5:7 is in the Original Greek. If there were no other verse of the King James Bible testifying of the Godhead, 1st John 5:7 would be enough for any Bible-believer to know that God exists in three Persons — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.” —1st John 5:7
Now if you have a modern corrupt bible, then you won’t find 1st John 5:7 correctly rendered. I went out and bought a literal translation of the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, based on the “Textus Receptus” (or Received Text). It contains 1st John 5:7 just as the King James Bible faithfully renders. The translators of the King James Bible rejected certain manuscripts as heretical. The manuscripts which they did accept became know as the “Received Text.”
jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_a_trinity.htm
Dan Hilton, a senior worker in Washington state said...
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington 1985]
Dan Hilton Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv 1996]
When the workers preached the Trinity is the doctrine of the devil or saying Jesus is NOT God, and the Holy Spirit is NOT God either, that's speaking against the Godhead or Trinity/Triune God= Blasphemy! That is very dangerous and serious sin.
The word Trinity is NOT found in the Bible because the RCC did NOT include or added any of the early apostolic fathers in the second century teaching of the Trinity doctrine after the book of Revelation 95 A.D. If they had included the the latter end of the 1st century and second century apostolic teachings about the Godhead or the Trinity teachings, then it would have been in the New Testament Bible.
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Post by speak on Oct 3, 2017 1:37:10 GMT -5
I have never heard a worker speak against or for the Godhead. I have never read anywhere where Jesus spoke of the Godhead, used the word Godhead. But I do read that He said follow me. So I can only surmise therefore it was of no great importance in the quest for salvation. I understand that the three are one and do not deny it is so. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. These are the things that are of the most importance to Jesus. The word Godhead mentioned 3 times in the Bible by Paul. Romans 1:19, 20 states…
“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.”
Some people (such as Muslims) foolishly claim that belief in a Godhead (aka, Trinity) means worship of three gods (polytheism). This simply reflects their willfully ignorance of the Word of God. The LORD our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4); but He does exist in three Persons= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and the Holy Spirit..... Trinity or Triune God.... 3 Person but all agree as ONE.
Acts 17:29 states… “For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Colossians 2:9… “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”
1st John 5:7 is in the Original Greek. If there were no other verse of the King James Bible testifying of the Godhead, 1st John 5:7 would be enough for any Bible-believer to know that God exists in three Persons — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.” —1st John 5:7
Now if you have a modern corrupt bible, then you won’t find 1st John 5:7 correctly rendered. I went out and bought a literal translation of the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, based on the “Textus Receptus” (or Received Text). It contains 1st John 5:7 just as the King James Bible faithfully renders. The translators of the King James Bible rejected certain manuscripts as heretical. The manuscripts which they did accept became know as the “Received Text.”
jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_a_trinity.htm
Dan Hilton, a senior worker in Washington state said...
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington 1985]
Dan Hilton Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv 1996]
When the workers preached the Trinity is the doctrine of the devil or saying Jesus is NOT God, and the Holy Spirit is NOT God either, that's speaking against the Godhead or Trinity/Triune God= Blasphemy! That is very dangerous and serious sin.
The word Trinity is NOT found in the Bible because the RCC did NOT include or added any of the early apostolic fathers in the second century teaching of the Trinity doctrine after the book of Revelation 95 A.D. If they had included the the latter end of the 1st century and second century apostolic teachings about the Godhead or the Trinity teachings, then it would have been in the New Testament Bible.
Did Jesus mention it? This my beloved Son hear ye Him.
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Post by nathan on Oct 3, 2017 7:59:02 GMT -5
The word Godhead mentioned 3 times in the Bible by Paul. Romans 1:19, 20 states…
“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.”
Some people (such as Muslims) foolishly claim that belief in a Godhead (aka, Trinity) means worship of three gods (polytheism). This simply reflects their willfully ignorance of the Word of God. The LORD our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4); but He does exist in three Persons= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and the Holy Spirit..... Trinity or Triune God.... 3 Person but all agree as ONE.
Acts 17:29 states… “For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Colossians 2:9… “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”
1st John 5:7 is in the Original Greek. If there were no other verse of the King James Bible testifying of the Godhead, 1st John 5:7 would be enough for any Bible-believer to know that God exists in three Persons — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.” —1st John 5:7
Now if you have a modern corrupt bible, then you won’t find 1st John 5:7 correctly rendered. I went out and bought a literal translation of the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, based on the “Textus Receptus” (or Received Text). It contains 1st John 5:7 just as the King James Bible faithfully renders. The translators of the King James Bible rejected certain manuscripts as heretical. The manuscripts which they did accept became know as the “Received Text.”
jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_a_trinity.htm
Dan Hilton, a senior worker in Washington state said...
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington 1985]
Dan Hilton Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv 1996]
When the workers preached the Trinity is the doctrine of the devil or saying Jesus is NOT God, and the Holy Spirit is NOT God either, that's speaking against the Godhead or Trinity/Triune God= Blasphemy! That is very dangerous and serious sin.
The word Trinity is NOT found in the Bible because the RCC did NOT include or added any of the early apostolic fathers in the second century teaching of the Trinity doctrine after the book of Revelation 95 A.D. If they had included the the latter end of the 1st century and second century apostolic teachings about the Godhead or the Trinity teachings, then it would have been in the New Testament Bible.
Did Jesus mention it? This my beloved Son hear ye Him. Yes, Jesus mentioned it in John chapters 13-17....
The Godhead is the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit to His apostles. Jesus said he is God Almighty himself in Revelation 1:8 " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Rev.21: 6-7 And he/Jesus said unto me, It is done. " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
~~ There is only One Alpha and Omega who lived and died who is to come the Almighty God that is Jesus Christ. Jesus is both the Son of God and God before he came down from heaven, just like the heaven Father, who is also God.... the Holy Spirit is also God= Godhead.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 10, 2017 20:11:13 GMT -5
Doug Morse - 2nd Pilerwa, Australia - 2011 www.trutharchive.net/doug-morse---the-holy-spirit---2nd-pilerwa-australia---2011 We read of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, three separate Beings. In the world there is a belief that this is one Being and it is spoken of as the Trinity. This is a manmade term and is wrong doctrine.
A man named Constantine, in 300 AD introduced this idea to try to bring some unity in these already splintering groups. Col 2:9 speaks of the Godhead. (Also Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20) "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." God did not die on the Cross, and the Spirit did not rise from the sepulcher; it was Jesus.
To understand it a little better, it is like the clock on that post. It has three separate hands working together, in perfect unity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have an Oneness that we can't comprehend with the human mind. But they are three separate Beings. We can't subtract one from the other. They all serve separately but maybe one day will [be] blended so perfectly. It's like food, blended together nicely to make a meal.
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Post by nathan on Oct 10, 2017 21:55:14 GMT -5
Doug Morse - 2nd Pilerwa, Australia - 2011 www.trutharchive.net/doug-morse---the-holy-spirit---2nd-pilerwa-australia---2011 We read of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, three separate Beings. In the world there is a belief that this is one Being and it is spoken of as the Trinity. This is a manmade term and is wrong doctrine.
A man named Constantine, in 300 AD introduced this idea to try to bring some unity in these already splintering groups. Col 2:9 speaks of the Godhead. (Also Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20) "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." God did not die on the Cross, and the Spirit did not rise from the sepulcher; it was Jesus.
To understand it a little better, it is like the clock on that post. It has three separate hands working together, in perfect unity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have an Oneness that we can't comprehend with the human mind. But they are three separate Beings. We can't subtract one from the other. They all serve separately but maybe one day will [be] blended so perfectly. It's like food, blended together nicely to make a meal. Doug M. doesn't fully understand the Godhead or the Trinity doctrine.... The Oneness Pentecostal denomination believes the Trinity is One being= Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that is NOT correct teaching.
The Emperor Constantine did NOT introduce the Trinity idea or teaching in 300 A.D. but it began in the book of Genesis chapter 1, throughout the Old and New Testament.
Godhead is 3 Separate beings God the Father, Christ the Lord God, and Holy Spirit but they are ONE in Unity and harmony= Triune God.
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Post by fixit on Oct 11, 2017 15:03:12 GMT -5
I thought this heresy was of such importance to be deleted from any group's ministry that there would be at least 100 replies by now? We thought being lied to for decades about being nameless was bad enough,but this!! How do you define heresy?
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Post by Skeptic Al on Oct 12, 2017 20:47:16 GMT -5
You do realize this very question is the biggest stumbling block to the Christian faith, right? Because, for every example you can throw out there that "proves" Jesus is/was God I can rebut with an example saying He is/was at most the only begotten (meaning born) Son of God. And no, NOT 'God the Son' as is popularly stated nowadays; that phrase never rears its head in the Bible.
Here's just one of MANY examples that make Jesus' divinity confusing/questionable in the Bible: I Tim 2:5 "For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the MAN Christ Jesus." (Emphasis mine). And of course, if Jesus is not God then we shouldn't be worshipping him ... and so on and so on the arguing goes ... ad infinitum.
(Now donning my Teflon overcoat for the onslaught of "proofs" that will certainly be slung my way)
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Post by nathan on Oct 12, 2017 21:33:17 GMT -5
You do realize this very question is the biggest stumbling block to the Christian faith, right? Because, for every example you can throw out there that "proves" Jesus is/was God I can rebut with an example saying He is/was at most the only begotten (meaning born) Son of God. And no, NOT 'God the Son' as is popularly stated nowadays; that phrase never rears its head in the Bible. Here's just one of MANY examples that make Jesus' divinity confusing/questionable in the Bible: I Tim 2:5 "For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the MAN Christ Jesus." (Emphasis mine). And of course, if Jesus is not God then we shouldn't be worshipping him ... and so on and so on the arguing goes ... ad infinitum. (Now donning my Teflon overcoat for the onslaught of "proofs" that will certainly be slung my way) Skeptic AL.... If Jesus is ONLY the Son of God then Can you explain these two verses to us when Jesus said He is the Almighty God and God.
Jesus said Rev 1:8 : "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty/God."
Jesus said in Rev. 21: 6-7 And he/Jesus said unto me/John, " It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
~~~ Jesus Christ is God (the Son NOT God the Father) and ONE mediator, who reconciles us to the Father through Calvary's Cross, where he paid for our sins.
~~~ The word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use the Bible every day....
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Post by speak on Oct 13, 2017 2:44:22 GMT -5
Doug Morse - 2nd Pilerwa, Australia - 2011 www.trutharchive.net/doug-morse---the-holy-spirit---2nd-pilerwa-australia---2011 We read of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, three separate Beings. In the world there is a belief that this is one Being and it is spoken of as the Trinity. This is a manmade term and is wrong doctrine.
A man named Constantine, in 300 AD introduced this idea to try to bring some unity in these already splintering groups. Col 2:9 speaks of the Godhead. (Also Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20) "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." God did not die on the Cross, and the Spirit did not rise from the sepulcher; it was Jesus.
To understand it a little better, it is like the clock on that post. It has three separate hands working together, in perfect unity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have an Oneness that we can't comprehend with the human mind. But they are three separate Beings. We can't subtract one from the other. They all serve separately but maybe one day will [be] blended so perfectly. It's like food, blended together nicely to make a meal. One of the reasons so many Christians have left the 2x2 church is because of confused and ignorant teaching like this. The only reason you left is because satan has beguiled you.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 13, 2017 3:21:00 GMT -5
One of the reasons so many Christians have left the 2x2 church is because of confused and ignorant teaching like this. The only reason you left is because satan has beguiled you. Wow how self righteous are you speak ! I would go so far as to say that Ross.Bowden is a far better example of what a Christian is, than some people who think they are the "only right way" because they belong to a particular "group" ! With the amount of CSA in your Church speak, Satan must be kept busy !
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Oct 13, 2017 7:59:11 GMT -5
We read of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, three separate Beings. In the world there is a belief that this is one Being and it is spoken of as the Trinity. This is a manmade term and is wrong doctrine.
This belief seems to be very similar to that believed by the Mormons and perhaps the Jehovah Witness.
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Oct 13, 2017 8:00:52 GMT -5
opps. I meant to post this quote
To understand it a little better, it is like the clock on that post. It has three separate hands working together, in perfect unity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have an Oneness that we can't comprehend with the human mind. But they are three separate Beings. We can't subtract one from the other. They all serve separately but maybe one day will [be] blended so perfectly. It's like food, blended together nicely to make a meal.
This belief seems to be very similar to that believed by the Mormons and Jehovah Witness.
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Post by snow on Oct 13, 2017 17:34:08 GMT -5
You do realize this very question is the biggest stumbling block to the Christian faith, right? Because, for every example you can throw out there that "proves" Jesus is/was God I can rebut with an example saying He is/was at most the only begotten (meaning born) Son of God. And no, NOT 'God the Son' as is popularly stated nowadays; that phrase never rears its head in the Bible. Here's just one of MANY examples that make Jesus' divinity confusing/questionable in the Bible: I Tim 2:5 "For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the MAN Christ Jesus." (Emphasis mine). And of course, if Jesus is not God then we shouldn't be worshipping him ... and so on and so on the arguing goes ... ad infinitum. (Now donning my Teflon overcoat for the onslaught of "proofs" that will certainly be slung my way) Skeptic AL.... If Jesus is ONLY the Son of God then Can you explain these two verses to us when Jesus said He is the Almighty God and God.
Jesus said Rev 1:8 : "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty/God."
Jesus said in Rev. 21: 6-7 And he/Jesus said unto me/John, " It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
~~~ Jesus Christ is God (the Son NOT God the Father) and ONE mediator, who reconciles us to the Father through Calvary's Cross, where he paid for our sins.
~~~ The word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use the Bible every day....
Jesus never wrote revelations (in fact, he ever wrote anything). Someone who thought this about Jesus, wrote it. It certainly doesn't prove Jesus is God.
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Post by snow on Oct 13, 2017 17:36:44 GMT -5
One of the reasons so many Christians have left the 2x2 church is because of confused and ignorant teaching like this. The only reason you left is because satan has beguiled you. Hold on. How can a non existent being beguile anyone? I certainly know I wasn't beguiled by anyone. I just read the bible and made up my mind about whether or not I chose to worship the OT god. At that young age I chose not to. Now I know that there is no evidence of that God even existing never mind his evil counterpart.
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Post by nathan on Oct 13, 2017 19:05:12 GMT -5
Skeptic AL.... If Jesus is ONLY the Son of God then Can you explain these two verses to us when Jesus said He is the Almighty God and God.
Jesus said Rev 1:8 : "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty/God."
Jesus said in Rev. 21: 6-7 And he/Jesus said unto me/John, " It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
~~~ Jesus Christ is God (the Son NOT God the Father) and ONE mediator, who reconciles us to the Father through Calvary's Cross, where he paid for our sins.
~~~ The word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use the Bible every day....
Jesus never wrote revelations (in fact, he ever wrote anything). Someone who thought this about Jesus, wrote it. It certainly doesn't prove Jesus is God. Well, John the apostle was there in heaven and he heard Jesus Christ said " I am the Almighty God." I don't believe John would LIE about it.
John heard and wrote what Jesus said in the gospel John too! in John 8:56-58 Jesus said, " Before Abraham was born I AM (that I AM the eternal God).
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 13, 2017 19:34:47 GMT -5
Jesus never wrote revelations (in fact, he ever wrote anything). Someone who thought this about Jesus, wrote it. It certainly doesn't prove Jesus is God. Well, John the apostle was there in heaven and he heard Jesus Christ said " I am the Almighty God." I don't believe John would LIE about it.
John heard and wrote what Jesus said in the gospel John too! in John 8:56-58 Jesus said, " Before Abraham was born I AM (that I AM the eternal God).
What proof do you have that John was in Heaven with Christ or heard Christ say that nathan ?
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Post by Gene on Oct 13, 2017 19:57:19 GMT -5
The word Godhead mentioned 3 times in the Bible by Paul. Romans 1:19, 20 states…
“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.”
Some people (such as Muslims) foolishly claim that belief in a Godhead (aka, Trinity) means worship of three gods (polytheism). This simply reflects their willfully ignorance of the Word of God. The LORD our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4); but He does exist in three Persons= God the Father, Christ the Lord God and the Holy Spirit..... Trinity or Triune God.... 3 Person but all agree as ONE.
Acts 17:29 states… “For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Colossians 2:9… “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”
1st John 5:7 is in the Original Greek. If there were no other verse of the King James Bible testifying of the Godhead, 1st John 5:7 would be enough for any Bible-believer to know that God exists in three Persons — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.” —1st John 5:7
Now if you have a modern corrupt bible, then you won’t find 1st John 5:7 correctly rendered. I went out and bought a literal translation of the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, based on the “Textus Receptus” (or Received Text). It contains 1st John 5:7 just as the King James Bible faithfully renders. The translators of the King James Bible rejected certain manuscripts as heretical. The manuscripts which they did accept became know as the “Received Text.”
jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_a_trinity.htm
Dan Hilton, a senior worker in Washington state said...
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It is a Catholic doctrine that wasn't even mentioned by the early Christians. It wasn't heard of until the second century. [Washington 1985]
Dan Hilton Beware of the devilish doctrine of the Trinity. [Manhattan MT Conv 1996]
When the workers preached the Trinity is the doctrine of the devil or saying Jesus is NOT God, and the Holy Spirit is NOT God either, that's speaking against the Godhead or Trinity/Triune God= Blasphemy! That is very dangerous and serious sin.
The word Trinity is NOT found in the Bible because the RCC did NOT include or added any of the early apostolic fathers in the second century teaching of the Trinity doctrine after the book of Revelation 95 A.D. If they had included the the latter end of the 1st century and second century apostolic teachings about the Godhead or the Trinity teachings, then it would have been in the New Testament Bible.
Did Jesus mention it? This my beloved Son hear ye Him. Oh! So if Jesus was silent on the matter, even if it's elsewhere in the scripture, it's of no importance?
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Post by nathan on Oct 13, 2017 20:03:08 GMT -5
Well, John the apostle was there in heaven and he heard Jesus Christ said " I am the Almighty God." I don't believe John would LIE about it.
John heard and wrote what Jesus said in the gospel John too! in John 8:56-58 Jesus said, " Before Abraham was born I AM (that I AM the eternal God).
What proof do you have that John was in Heaven with Christ or heard Christ say that nathan ? Read the first chapter of Rev.... God translated John to heavenly realm, he could hear and see when They/God unveiled the current and future events before him.
In the Old Testament we read God translated Enoch and Elijah to live heavenly realm without go through death experience.
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Post by Skeptic Al on Oct 13, 2017 20:26:03 GMT -5
If God went to a shrink he'd be diagnosed with MPD (Monotheistic Personality Disorder)! LOL
Mark 13:32 (NIV) "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." So, "God the Son" doesn't know what "God the Father" knows?! I thought they were united in all things!
Mark 16:19 (NIV) "After the Lord Jesus [God] had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of [Himself] God." Really?! How does one sit at one's own right hand? Oh and BTW, how does anyone know that God is sitting at God's right hand in heaven? Who witnessed that, exactly?
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 13, 2017 21:10:07 GMT -5
What proof do you have that John was in Heaven with Christ or heard Christ say that nathan ? Read the first chapter of Rev.... God translated John to heavenly realm, he could hear and see when They/God unveiled the current and future events before him.I would say he was on some pretty strong "stuff" ! So in fact it was John who wrote it not Jesus like you stated nathan ? Nathan said : " Skeptic AL.... If Jesus is ONLY the Son of God then Can you explain these two verses to us when Jesus said He is the Almighty God and God. Jesus said Rev 1:8 : "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty/God." Jesus said in Rev. 21: 6-7 And he/Jesus said unto me/John, " It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." ~~~ Jesus Christ is God (the Son NOT God the Father) and ONE mediator, who reconciles us to the Father through Calvary's Cross, where he paid for our sins. ~~~ The word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use the Bible every day...." This is an example of how you need to be very careful saying Jesus said when in fact it was John said !
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