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Post by emy on Sept 6, 2017 14:55:57 GMT -5
(excerpt from editorial by Walter Williams) .....Allow me to speculate as to the whys of this statue removal craze, which we might call statucide. To understand it, we need a review of the promises black and white liberals have been making for decades. In 1940, the black poverty rate was 87 percent. By 1960, it had fallen to 47 percent. During that interval, blacks were politically impotent. There were no anti-poverty programs or affirmative action programs. Nonetheless, this poverty reduction exceeded that in any other 20-year interval. But the black leadership argued that more was necessary. They said that broad advancement could not be made unless blacks gained political power. Fifty years ago, there were fewer than 1,000 black elected officials nationwide. According to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, by 2011 there were roughly 10,500 black elected officials, not to mention a black president. But what were the fruits of greater political power? The greatest black poverty, poorest education, highest crime rates and greatest family instability are in cities such as Detroit, St. Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Buffalo. The most common characteristic of these predominantly black cities is that for decades, all of them have been run by Democratic and presumably liberal politicians. Plus, in most cases, blacks have been mayors, chiefs of police, school superintendents and principals and have dominated city councils. .... Since the Lyndon Johnson administration's War on Poverty programs, U.S. taxpayers have forked over $22 trillion for anti-poverty programs. Adjusted for inflation, that's three times the cost of all U.S. military wars since the American Revolution. Despite that spending, the socio-economic condition for many blacks has worsened. ... The visions of black civil rights leaders and their white liberal allies didn't quite pan out. Greater political power and massive anti-poverty spending produced little. The failure of political power and the failure of massive welfare spending to produce nirvana led to the expectation that if only there were a black president, everything would become better for blacks. I cannot think of a single black socio-economic statistic that improved during the two terms of the Barack Obama administration. Some have become tragically worse... (italics added) complete editorial: www.creators.com/read/walter-williams
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Post by markyb on Sept 6, 2017 16:46:49 GMT -5
Curb your enthusiasim,there,Walter. Blacks made much economic progress during and after WW2,because the economy needed every hand on deck. Since the mid-70s,not so much. Welfare spending and anti-discrimination laws do not ensure equal opportunity or erase discrimination. Racism remains rampant in the US.I don't know how this will ever go away.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 17:08:19 GMT -5
Curb your enthusiasim,there,Walter. Blacks made much economic progress during and after WW2,because the economy needed every hand on deck. Since the mid-70s,not so much. Welfare spending and anti-discrimination laws do not ensure equal opportunity or erase discrimination. Racism remains rampant in the US.I don't know how this will ever go away. Welfare programs catering to "minorities" are how the white majority has maintained their first class status in this country. It's also how the wealthy have been able to keep the poor poorer ... in anyone hasn't noticed. McDonald's tutors their employees on how to supplement their wages with welfare. What the whites have always resented is the provision for blacks to compete on an equitable (not equal, I said equitable) basis with others. The system is very seriously rigged against equitable treatment and opportunities for blacks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 17:11:16 GMT -5
Curb your enthusiasim,there,Walter. Blacks made much economic progress during and after WW2,because the economy needed every hand on deck. Since the mid-70s,not so much. Welfare spending and anti-discrimination laws do not ensure equal opportunity or erase discrimination. Racism remains rampant in the US.I don't know how this will ever go away. the boogey man of(most white people are racist) racism wont ever go away the left couldn't operate without it....
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 17:15:28 GMT -5
Curb your enthusiasim,there,Walter. Blacks made much economic progress during and after WW2,because the economy needed every hand on deck. Since the mid-70s,not so much. Welfare spending and anti-discrimination laws do not ensure equal opportunity or erase discrimination. Racism remains rampant in the US.I don't know how this will ever go away. the boogey man of(most white people are racist) racism wont ever go away the left couldn't operate without it.... Yes, Wally, we know. I don't expect it to ever go away, as long as there are boogeymen to be afraid of.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 20:25:09 GMT -5
Who's "Racism", black or white? Most blacks I know repudiate outright "white man materialism" As whites moved out of Harlem and the Bronx, Koreans, Chinese and Indians moved into their businesses - all of them are "colored."
In America "blacks" of all shades - except Afro Americans - are doing fine. The Afro American blacks have an attitude problem, and American liberals I have spoken to are in denial. Anyone recall the encounter I had with a liberal uni student about why there were so few Afro Americans in National Parks, while there were many "blacks" from Indian, Pakistan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Uganda, Sth Africa etc.?
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 20:47:40 GMT -5
My family is American. We immigrated there in 1640 to Virginia.
I study this race business every time I go over. Mentioned one study a few weeks ago ---
in public libraries I found 20% of people studying were whites 80% of people studying were Asian 0% of people studying were Afro American.
Was there someone at the door of each library saying "I am sorry sir, but you can't study here because you are Afro American!" And the hapless man replies, "No! I am from India! I can't help being black!" "Ah, smart people those Indians! Come on inside!"
See?
Everyone hates the Jews. Most persecuted minority in history. Made them stronger
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 20:47:44 GMT -5
@ Bert, you are an American?! You are also knowledgeable regarding US inter-racial relations too?! Your "wisdom" never ceases to amaze me! Interesting. All shades of white are still called white. Even the ones who are darker than black people.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 20:49:52 GMT -5
My family is American. We immigrated there in 1640 to Virginia. I study this race business every time I go over. Mentioned one study a few weeks ago --- in public libraries I found 20% of people studying were whites 80% of people studying were Asian 0% of people studying were Afro American. Was there someone at the door of each library saying "I am sorry sir, but you can't study here because you are Afro American!" And the hapless man replies, "No! I am from India! I can't help being black!" "Ah, smart people those Indians! Come on inside!" See? Everyone hates the Jews. Most persecuted minority in history. Made them stronger Easy enough to find a college like that in Virginia.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 20:50:28 GMT -5
I was beside the river a few weeks ago. Some people were fishing - they were Chinese. Fishing was bad, but what the heck. I don't recall ever seeing an aborigine in this town fishing. But as it got dark the local aborigines appeared. They were drinking in the park. I could hear the women fighting. I thought to myself, in a piece of self-sarcasm, "Are even the fish in Australia racist?"
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 20:54:01 GMT -5
I was beside the river a few weeks ago. Some people were fishing - they were Chinese. Fishing was bad, but what the heck. I don't recall ever seeing an aborigine in this town fishing. But as it got dark the local aborigines appeared. They were drinking in the park. I could hear the women fighting. I thought to myself, in a piece of self-sarcasm, "Are even the fish in Australia racist?" And did you know that in America alligators don't eat black people. They prefer the taste of white people. That I learned from an American serviceman who rented my house in Canada.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 21:04:24 GMT -5
I think one needs to think this through a bit deeper than our culture permits. Americans don't look down on Chinese businessmen because they are of "color" And they don't imagine an alligator wouldn't eat a Jew. And they admire those Arabs or Pakistanis who set up car detailing businesses.
Story: We used to have lots of aborigines visit our property. They stopped coming for a long while when I offered them a job (true) to help me shore up our crumbling riverbank. Huge job, but I offered to pay them, cash. I knew if I put an ad in the paper I would inundated with whites wanting to work for me. So who was "racist", me, the whites who would do the job of those who thought that being aborigine gave them some reason not to take the job? Easy, the aborigine, and behind him his support - the Aborigine Industry. Similar to the Afro American Industry in American Academia.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 21:13:28 GMT -5
I think one needs to think this through a bit deeper than our culture permits. Americans don't look down on Chinese businessmen because they are of "color" And they don't imagine an alligator wouldn't eat a Jew. And they admire those Arabs or Pakistanis who set up car detailing businesses. Story: We used to have lots of aborigines visit our property. They stopped coming for a long while when I offered them a job (true) to help me shore up our crumbling riverbank. Huge job, but I offered to pay them, cash. I knew if I put an ad in the paper I would inundated with whites wanting to work for me. So who was "racist", me, the whites who would do the job of those who thought that being aborigine gave them some reason not to take the job? Easy, the aborigine, and behind him his support - the Aborigine Industry. Similar to the Afro American Industry in American Academia. I think you smoke something on the side. If you look deep enough, you'll find that Chinese were forbidden to come into the US for many years. The first Chinese allowed to come were the men (only) who were brought to the west coast to dig the tunnels through the mountains for the transcontinental railroad. They were not permitted to bring any females with them for fear they would breed. Ironically that was the big boost to the brothel business in the west. Actually, I know a LOT of good Christian white people around here who virtually HATE Chinese.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 21:29:20 GMT -5
Yes, that was then, this is now. Certainly you will find whites who hate Asians, and visa versa. But in terms of political economic status it's my belief that my crude measurement of library attendance suggests that in a few generations 80% of the upper class will be Asian, and 20% will be white.
And whether people hate Jews or not, they will continue to have a grudging respect for them.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 22:01:36 GMT -5
Isn't Afro America still current, or have the cognoscenti changed it, again?
Let's say it's "People of color" for this year. In a few years it will mean what Afro American means, and before it Negro, and before it (auto correct just removed the N..... word.)
After people pull down the statues of "racists" (you know, Jefferson, Custer...) maybe they will pull down the flags, and change them. And keep on changing them because the new flags will still be associated with the old "racism."
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 22:53:17 GMT -5
Isn't Afro America still current, or have the cognoscenti changed it, again? Let's say it's "People of color" for this year. In a few years it will mean what Afro American means, and before it Negro, and before it (auto correct just removed the N..... word.) After people pull down the statues of "racists" (you know, Jefferson, Custer...) maybe they will pull down the flags, and change them. And keep on changing them because the new flags will still be associated with the old "racism." The term Afro-American has largely been replaced by the term African-American. "People of color" does not mean just Afro-Americans; it includes all people who aren't white, so to speak. That includes Latin Americans, Asians, native peoples, and the like. The pulling down of statues and flags is not really about racism; it's about the traitorous character of what is behind the statue and the flag. Countries are always pulling down statues and other symbols that honored the enemies of the country. Of course, in the US they've kept them for so long that the present generation of people poorly educated on factual history aren't going to necessarily know why these things should be disposed of. There's an explanation for this. Rather than persist with the racial objectives of the United States (the North) after the Civil War, the government slacked off on it and permitted the South to reinstitute slavery by every other means available, and this is what we've inherited.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 6, 2017 23:34:27 GMT -5
Well in Australia people are talking about pulling down the statues of our explorers. And I think you guys have an issue with Columbus, too? Will all white people ashamed of Columbus please leave the country? Nope, nope and nope.
You have a lot of confidence in the "rightness" of the people who do these things.
But these people aren't pulling down "racist" statues at all - they are pulling down everything of a civilization they hate. It's that white, man, Christian, big business, family, civic virtue, history, heterosexual, Noddy and Big Ears stuff.
It's called Self Hate. And it's tearing America apart.
Last week in Australia a TV station pulled off an ad celebrating Father's Day. It said it was too "political" in view of the on-going issues over gay marriage. I wonder when the age of church burning will arrive?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2017 23:55:12 GMT -5
Well in Australia people are talking about pulling down the statues of our explorers. And I think you guys have an issue with Columbus, too? Will all white people ashamed of Columbus please leave the country? Nope, nope and nope. FWIW: Columbus never at any time came to "this" country. It's not a major issue that I know of. I thought I had explained why I didn't have all that much confidence in the rightness of the people ... or should I say, the "wisdom" of the people. Historically, that's the reason why people pull down statues. Not exactly. You're describing both sides of the issue with this list. Since when have all Americans had any respect for all other Americans? They've already been burning churches, mosques, synagogues, temples. That's nothing new in this country.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 7, 2017 0:55:41 GMT -5
Bob when I refer to church burning I don't mean something happening in Alabama by White Supremacists. I mean when society in general hates churches in general. Targeting Columbus is quite common now. I figured that out when I noticed Australian activists were targeting our own historic figures. In their anti-Americanism they ape everything the American Left does and thinks. www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/10/13/columbus_day_john_oliver_and_last_week_tonight_ask_how_is_this_still_a_thing.html"he was a brutal colonizer whose arrival brought misery and death to millions through war, slavery, and disease." Actually, Columbus didn't really do all those things - those whites who hate him continue to do that to this day.
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Post by PrueBert on Sept 7, 2017 7:59:18 GMT -5
Custer killed Indians. Never mind they killed him. He was white, an Indian killer, a Caucasian male, a Colonialist, a white imperialist, a gun nut, an invader... anything else I missed? When you are running out of statues, why not his? The point is not his statue, or any one elses statue - it's the culture war against what America once was.
After the news about Confederate statues broke I told my friends that our Australian counterparts will try to do the same. Just about every statue in this country can be deemed an offense to some group. It took about a week for the statue issue to appear in news. Captain Cook was number one, but monuments and statues are all over the country to those who explored and opened the land up.
I don't work on what the latest left-wing, Liberal fad is, I try to look to where that fad is taking us. Said the same about legalizing homosexuality - those who said homosexuals don't have any agenda other than to be left alone were B.A.D.L.Y....M.I.S.T.A.K.E.N.
Lied to, in fact. Who cares what homosexuals do - it's where the issue is taking us that interests me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 7, 2017 18:25:55 GMT -5
Bob when I refer to church burning I don't mean something happening in Alabama by White Supremacists. I mean when society in general hates churches in general. Interesting that you have a preference for who will burn your churches down.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 23:34:17 GMT -5
Custer it's the culture war against what America once was. So? As demographics change so does everything else. The predominate culture and collective mind will prevail in a country. Break or bend. Examine your prejudices. Examine if the things you hold dear are of true value. This world will change. Period. Is that really what you are going to let your panties all twisted up about? People that hold on a little to tightly to anything need to do a little examination of priorities. What you have in your heart that is right and good and your morals and the way you treat others and the way you engage with others and the way you uphold the values of "a new commandment I give unto you". Those are the things that are important. Those are the things that should not be toppled. Those are the things in which to be resolute. Are the affairs of "Egypt" really your or my concern? this is why america will probably fall....
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 8, 2017 2:07:44 GMT -5
So? As demographics change so does everything else. The predominate culture and collective mind will prevail in a country. Break or bend. Examine your prejudices. Examine if the things you hold dear are of true value. This world will change. Period. Is that really what you are going to let your panties all twisted up about? People that hold on a little to tightly to anything need to do a little examination of priorities. What you have in your heart that is right and good and your morals and the way you treat others and the way you engage with others and the way you uphold the values of "a new commandment I give unto you". Those are the things that are important. Those are the things that should not be toppled. Those are the things in which to be resolute. Are the affairs of "Egypt" really your or my concern? this is why america will probably fall.... Wally considers "America" to be what it was when only a WASP got to vote. Have you got your Real ID yet, Wally? If not, you better start working on it now or you'll not be allowed to vote next time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 11:22:36 GMT -5
this is why america will probably fall.... ...as every nation has. Your definition of "Fall" being? complete and utter collapse...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 11:33:03 GMT -5
this is why america will probably fall.... Wally considers "America" to be what it was when only a WASP got to vote. Have you got your Real ID yet, Wally? If not, you better start working on it now or you'll not be allowed to vote next time. see bob, can't operate without racism in the mix can you...LOL
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Post by Lee on Sept 8, 2017 13:27:02 GMT -5
People don't succeed in today's world unless they believe in themselves. In a competitive economy that involves feeling superior or adequate to the task of education and buckling down in a job. The accusation of racism is a red herring with regard to underperforming blacks. Numerically, they tend not to believe in themselves. That is the core problem, not racism.
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Post by markyb on Sept 8, 2017 15:01:17 GMT -5
Lee:I'm thinking you might have a tad more confidence in yourself if your grandparents and parents weren't constantly being bullied, harassed, looked down upon, passed over for decent jobs, etc. And don't give me this "We are all equal under the law, no more discrimination, black folks are just lazy...meme" White folks, me included, continue to have every advantage under the sun over our colored brothers..
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Post by Lee on Sept 8, 2017 15:22:03 GMT -5
Not necessarily, and you exaggerate the effect of racism today. America is ready to reinvent itself, has been for some time now, to celebrate the success of all races. If there's a lack of jobs available, or a lack good ones, this could be a fault or a liability in capitalism, not racism per se.
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