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Post by Cheryl on Jul 16, 2006 15:49:21 GMT -5
I'm confused. The workers have taught clearly that we cannot be saved by works, and works will not save us, but we must repent.
But surely repentance is a work?
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Post by borned again on Jul 16, 2006 16:13:29 GMT -5
Ye MUST be born again.
How can I be born again, can I re-enter my mothers womb?
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Post by selah on Jul 16, 2006 19:34:59 GMT -5
Repentance is a decision to walk toward God instead of away from Him. He works in you when that decision has been made.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Jessi on Jul 18, 2006 5:21:42 GMT -5
Repentance is only granted by God. The Lord opens the heart and mind so that one can see his sin and turn from it. The reason why Eph 2:8-9 say "not of works lest any man should boast" is because salvation is ALL of God and none of us.
Acts 11:18 says God granted the gentiles repentance.
As many as were ordained to eternal life believed. - Acts 13:48
God keeps things from us till the time is right - Luke 24:16, 31,32
Only the Father draws His people to himself - John 6:44
Lydia was saved because the Lord "opened her heart." - Acts 16:14
One would be unrepentant were it not for the work of the Father first . . . because it's not that we love him . . . but that He first loved us (I Jn 4:19).
Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by IllinoisGal on Jul 18, 2006 6:11:34 GMT -5
Ye MUST be born again. How can I be born again, can I re-enter my mothers womb? Nicodemus asked Jesus this very same question in John 3 3-5 and he answered it
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Post by Repentance on Jul 18, 2006 6:27:05 GMT -5
to be a BIT MORE SPECIFIC than Linda - Repentance is to change your behavior, to cast aside the former works of your life, and take upon the works of Christ.
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Post by Gene on Jul 18, 2006 11:20:19 GMT -5
to be a BIT MORE SPECIFIC than Linda - Repentance is to change your behavior, to cast aside the former works of your life, and take upon the works of Christ. I prefer Linda's definition, I think because it implies a life-long process. This definition seems to lean heavily toward salvation by works. "If I just try hard enough, I can be like Jesus and overcome the debil just like he did..."
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Post by Brick on Jul 18, 2006 13:09:18 GMT -5
to be a BIT MORE SPECIFIC than Linda - Repentance is to change your behavior, to cast aside the former works of your life, and take upon the works of Christ. I almost agree with this, but would say that repentance is not about changing our behavior, but changing our MIND. I may repent doing an evil deed, meaning that I recognize that it is wrong and have every intention to behave differently, but when faced with temptation, repeat the same evil as before. So is repentance a work? I would say that it is an attitude that may result in different works/deeds/spirit in our lives.
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Post by guest on Jul 18, 2006 13:43:50 GMT -5
Repentance is a decision to walk toward God instead of away from Him. He works in you when that decision has been made. Blessings, Linda Making a choice is something you do. It is a work. Also, the above thought brings to mind a saying the 2x2's have been getting beat up on for years, "you just aren't willing (to repent-obey-do)".
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 18, 2006 14:11:29 GMT -5
To me, repentance means giving it to God.
Anyone can say, "God forgive me," but repentance is truly being sorry, and giving your life to God. Its the action behind it all.
There is ACTION involved in our salvation. Yes, it is a gift.. but we have to TURN TO GOD. We can't just do whatever we want and expect to go to heaven! True, it is not a works-based thing, but if you READ the bible, you'll find that God does not desire that we sit on our bums.
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Post by Jessi on Jul 20, 2006 21:00:12 GMT -5
WITHOPENEYES is right. We can't just expect we'll go to heaven because we got our free ticket out of hell punched. The Bible says we are to examine ourselves and see if we are in the faith (II Cor 13:5).
Works follow faith. If one is a true believer, he will do the Lord's work (James 2:18).
The reason why a man is justified by works and not by faith only (vs 24-25), is because he must have FAITH first in order to DO anything. The Lord opens our heart to have faith first. If works do not follow . . . is the faith is really true?
Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Jul 20, 2006 21:26:34 GMT -5
The "action behind it all", however, is the Sovereign One and no other. Eph 2:8-9 clearly states that salvation is not of Works lest any man should boast. There is no other name by which we must be saved but the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12). If I say that any part of salvation depended on me, then I would be directly opposing the Word of God. My name is also another name other than Jesus Christ.
Rom 9:11 - 16th verse, same thing - So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
No action is REQUIRED. One who is His will automatically do His will. Not perfectly, but will strive to do the will of the Father. We love Him BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US (I John 4:19+). God did it all.
Isaiah, the prophet of God speaks God's Word crystal clear, what He will do. See, he has told us before it even happened. And it came true.
Is 46:4-5
Jesus is King, Jessi
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 21, 2006 16:07:44 GMT -5
Something I wanted to quote before but couldn't quite put my finger on is a verse in James, I believe, that says, "Be ye DOERS of the word."
Doers. That requires action. I like to think of our action as "enjoying" God's will. When we are (properly) ENJOYING his way, his path, his fellowship... we are in his control.
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repentance a new mindset
Guest
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Post by repentance a new mindset on Jul 21, 2006 22:58:05 GMT -5
God gives the gift of FREE WILL. You can do anything you want. It is by what your MIND processes that leads to your actions.
My relaionship with the Lord starts to hinder when I choose to not spend time in His word and time in prayer. When I begin my day with an honest focus on Him and a humbleness to know I need His help, and I ASK for it - I experience results.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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Post by Jessi on Jul 22, 2006 14:43:12 GMT -5
WOE: wrote: Doers. That requires action. I like to think of our action as "enjoying" God's will. When we are (properly) ENJOYING his way, his path, his fellowship... we are in his control.
James 2:18 - I was just trying to say that works FOLLOW faith. The one who DOES already believes and is saved. Nothing REQUIRES action. We do because we love Him, not because we are REQUIRED to do anything.
Also, it's OK to say the Name. Jesus Christ is the Way. Our actions are the fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22. What we DO is who we are. Christ's. Love.
What is the "(properly)" for? What do you mean by this? Thanks for the discussion.
RANM:
Where are you finding that God gives the GIFT of free will? I thought he gave the gift of repentance. Are these quotations from the Word? I'm not saying a verse doesn't exist that one may interpret that way . . . but I don't think I've seen one.
Acts 5:31 - For to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins II Tim 2:25 - If God, peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowleding of the truth
I believe we have a limited free will in that those who are His are changed. God grants repentance and opens the heart to receive the Word of God. If He didn't, we simply would not choose Him, nor repent. We wouldn't have the desire.
Acts 13:48 - as many as were ordained to eternal life believed Acts 16:14 - Lydia . . . whose heart the Lord opened Acts 2:39 - As many as the Lord our God shall call
and many other places too numerous to list because my hands are stinging.
Christ the Lord's, Jessi
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 24, 2006 14:20:35 GMT -5
By "properly" I meant,
There are those who "enjoy" God's way on the outside.... They enjoy the gatherings, they enjoy doing things with other Christians, enjoy going to church, but they don't have their whole heart in it. However, they aren't really and TRULY enjoying God's way as God desires.
Understand what I mean, or did I confuse you more?
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BC
Senior Member
Posts: 852
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Post by BC on Jul 24, 2006 14:48:04 GMT -5
Yes I agree,
Repentance is turning from what we previously lived for and turning toward what God offers us. We turn from our sinful past and place it behind us and take the hand of our Lord and follow where he leads us always doing what he lays on our heart in the spirit of Christ. The works we show to our Father and to those around us are what we do because we are then in the spirit doing what we love, it is the result of our salvation not the cause of our salvation. "By their fruit ye shall know them"
[shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 24, 2006 14:52:00 GMT -5
Exactly, well worded.
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Post by Jessi on Jul 31, 2006 21:27:46 GMT -5
By "properly" I meant, There are those who "enjoy" God's way on the outside.... They enjoy the gatherings, they enjoy doing things with other Christians, enjoy going to church, but they don't have their whole heart in it. However, they aren't really and TRULY enjoying God's way as God desires. Understand what I mean, or did I confuse you more? Oh, no. I'm not confused. Just very curious about your views. What IS "having your whole heart in It? What is IT? What is "God's way as God desires" and how does one "enjoy" it? Man looks on outward appearance--and the Lord looks on the heart (I Sam 16:7). I am curious how one would know that others' "hearts aren't in it" if the Lord is the one who reads hearts and minds?" Also, are these that don't have their "hearts in it" true Christians? Can you tell? Thanks, Jesus is Lord, Jessi
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Post by Zorro on Jul 31, 2006 21:44:07 GMT -5
Also, are these that don't have their "hearts in it" true Christians? Can you tell?
This is a very, very interesting question. Since leaving the fellowship, we have discovered that many whom we had thought in the past didn't have their "hearts in it", are in fact very solid, committed Christians. They just weren't solid, committed "friends". I've had incredible fellowship with people previously branded as weak, fence-sitters, or lost.....but who in reality have all their "hearts in it". It is an amazing experience.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 1, 2006 10:21:44 GMT -5
I know a lot of solid Christians, who seem a little out of place in the f&w.
What I'm talking about are people who promote this religion, but are very dishonest in life. I've seen them verbally beat their relatives when they get into bad stuff, yet they are doing things that are much worse.
Of course, we all have struggles, and that is probably just one of theirs.
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Post by ilylo on Aug 1, 2006 13:07:12 GMT -5
Here's another angle: A) Are you doing works in order to get saved?
or...
B) Are you doing works because you are saved? Answer this to yourself.
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Aug 1, 2006 15:32:46 GMT -5
Here's another angle: A) Are you doing works in order to get saved?
or...
B) Are you doing works because you are saved? Answer this to yourself. A Christian will result in "B"... I am going to guess you will say that the majority the F&W have "A" rather than"B"... ...in the end, God is the only one who knows the heart of the Believer!
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Post by Jessi on Aug 1, 2006 17:46:21 GMT -5
I know a lot of solid Christians, who seem a little out of place in the f&w. What I'm talking about are people who promote this religion, but are very dishonest in life. I've seen them verbally beat their relatives when they get into bad stuff, yet they are doing things that are much worse. Of course, we all have struggles, and that is probably just one of theirs. What is a "solid Christian? And when I read "promote this religion" should I take it to be . . . Christianity? Jesus Christ the Lord? In the paragraph about promote religion . . . dishonest . . . bad stuff . . . what or who are you talking about? The F&W? Christians outside the F&W? Thanks, Christ's, Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Aug 1, 2006 17:54:59 GMT -5
Also, are these that don't have their "hearts in it" true Christians? Can you tell? This is a very, very interesting question. Since leaving the fellowship, we have discovered that many whom we had thought in the past didn't have their "hearts in it", are in fact very solid, committed Christians. They just weren't solid, committed "friends". I've had incredible fellowship with people previously branded as weak, fence-sitters, or lost.....but who in reality have all their "hearts in it". It is an amazing experience. Yes, Zorro. Interesting. I heard things like "bitter spirit" and "wrong spirit" a lot growing up -- Seems to me, the ones asking serious questions and making Biblical comparisons with what they get for answers (albeit SOLELY verbal) are the ones accused of this "spirit" . . . yet one desperate to know needs only ask of God. Luke 11:11, huh? I know this now--All praise to Jesus Christ the Lord. Peace in Jesus, Jessi
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