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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 19:52:05 GMT -5
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Post by matisse on May 16, 2016 10:32:30 GMT -5
This is useful. I could tell from a comment Josh made in the OP video that he is probably no longer a theist. Here's another video with Joshua Durham, this time without a huge font 'Jesus." on the wall behind his head: Josua Durham, OD and Steven Hassan 7-20-15I recommend the segments 35:44 to 38:49 and 39:07 to 41:25 minutes. Steven Hassan devised the B.I.T.E. model discussed in the OP video.
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Post by xna on May 16, 2016 15:48:23 GMT -5
This is useful. I could tell from a comment Josh made in the OP video that he is probably no longer a theist. Here's another video with Joshua Durham, this time without a huge font 'Jesus." on the wall behind his head: Josua Durham, OD and Steven Hassan 7-20-15I recommend the segments 35:44 to 38:49 and 39:07 to 41:25 minutes. Steven Hassan devised the B.I.T.E. model discussed in the OP video. Thanks for the link
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 17:57:15 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php2x2ism a cult. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control 1. Regulate individual’s physical reality 2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates 3. When, how and with whom the member has sex 4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles 5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting 6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep 7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence 8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time 9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet 10. Permission required for major decisions 11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors 12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative 13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think 14. Impose rigid rules and regulations 15. Instill dependency and obedience Information Control 1. Deception: a. Deliberately withhold information b. Distort information to make it more acceptable c. Systematically lie to the cult member 2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media b.Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking 3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible b.Control information at different levels and missions within group c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when 4. Encourage spying on other members a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group 5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources 6. Unethical use of confession a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories Thought Control 1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality b. Instill black and white thinking c. Decide between good vs. evil d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders) 2.Change person’s name and identity 3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words 4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts 5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member 6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created 7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including: a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking b. Chanting c. Meditating d. Praying e. Speaking in tongues f. Singing or humming 8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism 9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed 10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful Emotional Control 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish 2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt 3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault 4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt h. Historical guilt 5. Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval 6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner 7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins 8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 18:27:44 GMT -5
Documentary about the JW's. Basically same as 2x2s.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 21:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 13:27:31 GMT -5
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 13:39:40 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php2x2ism a cult. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control <SNIP> d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions.
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Post by breakingfree on May 18, 2016 14:37:03 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php2x2ism a cult. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control <SNIP> d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions. Sure, some that claim to be Christian would have these traits. However, healthy Christianity encourages that you ask questions, research it's claims, learn what the critics say/write about it and be ready to give an answer with humility. This is quite the opposite of controlling religious groups/cults. Just because they claim they are Christian doesn't make them such. But I'm sure you know that.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 14:42:11 GMT -5
Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions. Sure, some that claim to be Christian would have these traits. However, healthy Christianity encourages that you ask questions, research it's claims, learn what the critics say/write about it and be ready to give an answer with humility. This is quite the opposite of controlling religious groups/cults. Just because they claim they are Christian doesn't make them such. But I'm sure you know that. breakingfree you have probably figured this out already, but Ir rational is 'retired' Overseer/Worker. His purpose on this forum is to present any lurking 2x2 with a narrative that sends them back straight into the arms of 2x2ism. He does this by running the old 2x2 false choice of it's either 2x2ism or atheism - whatever problem you have with 2x2ism, it's just as bad in any Christian church.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 15:00:08 GMT -5
breakingfree you have probably figured this out already, but Ir rational is 'retired' Overseer/Worker. His purpose on this forum is to present any lurking 2x2 with a narrative that sends them back straight into the arms of 2x2ism. He does this by running the old 2x2 false choice of it's either 2x2ism or atheism - whatever problem you have with 2x2ism, it's just as bad in any Christian church. The expected response - always resort to personal attacks when you don't have the data to back up your claims.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 15:27:03 GMT -5
Sure, some that claim to be Christian would have these traits. However, healthy Christianity encourages that you ask questions, research it's claims, learn what the critics say/write about it and be ready to give an answer with humility. This is quite the opposite of controlling religious groups/cults. Just because they claim they are Christian doesn't make them such. But I'm sure you know that. Healthy christianity may indeed encourage you to ask questions but it also demands that the answers line up with acceptable beliefs. It is not so much about providing an actual answer but an acceptable response. Is it possible that you think any organization that states "Follow these specific beliefs or suffer eternal damnation" does not fit the description of a controlling belief system? The question is not whether you accept that a religion/sect/organization manage your life but rather how much micro-management you can tolerate. One denomination may require that you believe that proper dress is a long skirt and white shirts while another requires that you believe the concept of transubstantiation. Both are a matter of belief and neither is supported by any facts.
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 15:34:28 GMT -5
So you find one that you feel lines up with your beliefs. You are free not like closed sects that claim that you are doomed if you leave our church and go to another. That is a healthy Christian church that focuses on belief in Christ and not belief in their church.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 15:42:54 GMT -5
So you find one that you feel lines up with your beliefs. Find a new religion? Christianity is quite clear that it is the only path to eternal life. If a sect is unhealthy when it states it is the only path to salvation why is this not also true of a religion making the same claim? Is it a healthy religion that declares itself as the only way to salvation?
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Post by Gene on May 18, 2016 16:45:42 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php2x2ism a cult. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control <SNIP> d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions. Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making.
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bgm
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Post by bgm on May 18, 2016 17:08:10 GMT -5
Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions. Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making. The BITE model actually proves that 2x2ism is not a cult from my experience past and present. When I look at that list item by item, very little of it is anything I have ever experienced directly or even vaguely. Or perhaps the idea is that if one or two of that long list is accurate, then it qualifies of the labeling?? I wonder if those who experienced the BITE actually grew up in a cult family who created a cult experience based on 2x2 traditions. That may explain the discombobulation that is associated with the cult labeling.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 17:13:28 GMT -5
Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making. The BITE model actually proves that 2x2ism is not a cult from my experience past and present. When I look at that list item by item, very little of it is anything I have ever experienced directly or even vaguely. Or perhaps the idea is that if one or two of that long list is accurate, then it qualifies of the labeling?? I wonder if those who experienced the BITE actually grew up in a cult family who created a cult experience based on 2x2 traditions. That may explain the discombobulation that is associated with the cult labeling. Most people who are in cults will tell you that NONE of the BITE model items exist for their experience. That's because BITE model items are not overtly communicated in the cult, they are done very subtly, so subtle that the cult victim thinks that they themselves are making a personal choice to do those things. Even after leaving a cult, many ex-members don't recognize the extent to which their behavior was modified by the cult.
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Post by breakingfree on May 18, 2016 18:10:58 GMT -5
Sure, some that claim to be Christian would have these traits. However, healthy Christianity encourages that you ask questions, research it's claims, learn what the critics say/write about it and be ready to give an answer with humility. This is quite the opposite of controlling religious groups/cults. Just because they claim they are Christian doesn't make them such. But I'm sure you know that. Healthy christianity may indeed encourage you to ask questions but it also demands that the answers line up with acceptable beliefs. It is not so much about providing an actual answer but an acceptable response. No, this isn't true of healthy Christianity, IMO. This is true of controlling religious systems that fit into the BITE model. Is it possible that you think any organization that states "Follow these specific beliefs or suffer eternal damnation" does not fit the description of a controlling belief system? I think any organization that states "Follow these specific beliefs or suffer eternal damnation" IS in fact a controlling belief system.The question is not whether you accept that a religion/sect/organization manage your life but rather how much micro-management you can tolerate. I tolerate no micro-management now that I'm out of the 2's. I've learned better critical and logical thinking skills to prevent that happening again, thankfully. One denomination may require that you believe that proper dress is a long skirt and white shirts while another requires that you believe the concept of transubstantiation. Both are a matter of belief and neither is supported by any facts. Agreed
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 18:21:11 GMT -5
I have no problem with the Christian belief that says one must believe in Jesus to be saved, I do however have a problem with a church which says you have to attend our church to be saved.
You have your fixed beliefs, rational, you believe there is no God and nothing beyond the grave. That is a fixed belief unlike the belief of religions whose mind expands beyond the fixed belief, to God and the unknown.
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Post by breakingfree on May 18, 2016 19:10:32 GMT -5
Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making. The BITE model actually proves that 2x2ism is not a cult from my experience past and present. When I look at that list item by item, very little of it is anything I have ever experienced directly or even vaguely. Or perhaps the idea is that if one or two of that long list is accurate, then it qualifies of the labeling?? I wonder if those who experienced the BITE actually grew up in a cult family who created a cult experience based on 2x2 traditions. That may explain the discombobulation that is associated with the cult labeling. Wow, that is great. You must live in a very liberal, open-minded field with very open-minded workers. I grew up in a normal, decent non-religious home. I joined the 2x2's as a teen (invited by a friend). I left over 25 years later. This is how the BITE model applies to the 2x2's wher I live: B (Behavior) Baptism was withheld if you had ever been seen wearing jeans and/or you colored, trimmed, or cut your hair. Baptism was taught as a necessary step for salvation. So, naturally, in order to be approved for baptism, one would have to modify their outward appearance. I was publicly praised by the workers after a GM when I managed to get my hair into a bun for the first time. I was privately berated for wearing Bermuda-style shorts to a summer picnic. If you missed any meetings (unless you were seriously ill) your "heartiness" was in question. I (Information)I was never told the true history of the group. I was told, as you might believe, that we had no earthly founder. We were warned not to "read anything on the internet about us. None of it is true. You are putting your salvation in jeopardy" Especially anything that might criticize the group. Reading any literature outside of the bible (KJV and maybe NIV) was very much frowned upon. It was made clear many times from the platform that this was dangerous and you would risk your salvation. T (Thought)We were persuaded to believe and think that the workers were the only true ministry, so therefore, we were the only right way and there isn't salvation outside of our group. We were persuaded to think that the bible could be interpreted only through the workers. If your thoughts/understanding about something in the bible was in contradiction to what a worker taught YOU were the wrong one. It was made clear that if you had a doubt about anything regarding the workers and/or their system then YOU were the problem. You need to be more willing to fit in. E (Emotion)Guilt trips from the platform and testimonies about being more how unworthy we are, how we need to be more willing, and thankful for the way because the workers sacrifice so much. This reinforces a feeling of dependency on the system. If you felt any doubt you just needed to submit more and be more willing The group places such a high importance on meeting attendance, it was deemed appropriate to feel guilty for missing for work or just to have a day off. Fear/Phobias: You could count on hearing a story from a worker at convention (at least) about the person who left meetings and then died in an accident or of an illness. It was often made clear that there is never a legitimate reason to leave meetings. Those who do are unwilling, weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, or just want to be worldly. I just jotted down the ones that immediately came to mind, of which I can offhand recall clear memories of specific incidents. I was mentored by a sister worker when I started attending meetings. She used many of the techniques in the BITE model to "help" me conform to the system of the friends and workers. If your experience in the 2x2's is honestly free of all these things, then I am truly happy for you. I assume you feel absolutely free to read anything you want, may I suggest The Grace Awakening by Charles Swindoll and Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell? You will enjoy these very much. They will help you come to a biblical knowledge of why you believe what you believe. "Knowledge of the Holy One is understanding" Cheers!
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Post by ellie on May 18, 2016 22:21:33 GMT -5
The BITE model actually proves that 2x2ism is not a cult from my experience past and present. When I look at that list item by item, very little of it is anything I have ever experienced directly or even vaguely. Or perhaps the idea is that if one or two of that long list is accurate, then it qualifies of the labeling?? I wonder if those who experienced the BITE actually grew up in a cult family who created a cult experience based on 2x2 traditions. That may explain the discombobulation that is associated with the cult labeling. Wow, that is great. You must live in a very liberal, open-minded field with very open-minded workers. I grew up in a normal, decent non-religious home. I joined the 2x2's as a teen (invited by a friend). I left over 25 years later. This is how the BITE model applies to the 2x2's wher I live: B (Behavior) Baptism was withheld if you had ever been seen wearing jeans and/or you colored, trimmed, or cut your hair. Baptism was taught as a necessary step for salvation. So, naturally, in order to be approved for baptism, one would have to modify their outward appearance. I was publicly praised by the workers after a GM when I managed to get my hair into a bun for the first time. I was privately berated for wearing Bermuda-style shorts to a summer picnic. If you missed any meetings (unless you were seriously ill) your "heartiness" was in question. I (Information)I was never told the true history of the group. I was told, as you might believe, that we had no earthly founder. We were warned not to "read anything on the internet about us. None of it is true. You are putting your salvation in jeopardy" Especially anything that might criticize the group. Reading any literature outside of the bible (KJV and maybe NIV) was very much frowned upon. It was made clear many times from the platform that this was dangerous and you would risk your salvation. T (Thought)We were persuaded to believe and think that the workers were the only true ministry, so therefore, we were the only right way and there isn't salvation outside of our group. We were persuaded to think that the bible could be interpreted only through the workers. If your thoughts/understanding about something in the bible was in contradiction to what a worker taught YOU were the wrong one. It was made clear that if you had a doubt about anything regarding the workers and/or their system then YOU were the problem. You need to be more willing to fit in. E (Emotion)Guilt trips from the platform and testimonies about being more how unworthy we are, how we need to be more willing, and thankful for the way because the workers sacrifice so much. This reinforces a feeling of dependency on the system. If you felt any doubt you just needed to submit more and be more willing The group places such a high importance on meeting attendance, it was deemed appropriate to feel guilty for missing for work or just to have a day off. Fear/Phobias: You could count on hearing a story from a worker at convention (at least) about the person who left meetings and then died in an accident or of an illness. It was often made clear that there is never a legitimate reason to leave meetings. Those who do are unwilling, weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, or just want to be worldly. I just jotted down the ones that immediately came to mind, of which I can offhand recall clear memories of specific incidents. I was mentored by a sister worker when I started attending meetings. She used many of the techniques in the BITE model to "help" me conform to the system of the friends and workers. If your experience in the 2x2's is honestly free of all these things, then I am truly happy for you. I assume you feel absolutely free to read anything you want, may I suggest The Grace Awakening by Charles Swindoll and Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell? You will enjoy these very much. They will help you come to a biblical knowledge of why you believe what you believe. "Knowledge of the Holy One is understanding" Cheers! Thanks breakingfree! Sometimes it’s difficult to know what’s a function of family and what’s a function of the group so it’s good to hear the opinion of someone not B&R. I have experienced different specifics but I agree with the sentiment of your comments.
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Post by withlove on May 18, 2016 23:51:19 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php2x2ism a cult. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control 1. Regulate individual’s physical reality 2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates 3. When, how and with whom the member has sex 4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles 5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting 6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep 7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence 8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time - Overseers preached that vacation is never a vacation from meetings. Ever. So anywhere you go, you have to make meeting part of your plans. 9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet 10. Permission required for major decisions - Workers were miffed if couples did not ask if they could marry. Or they would say, "If you have to ask, that's a sign that you shouldn't marry." 11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors - such a regular occurrence that it would be easy to slip right past this one. People always reported on what other people in their meeting or beyond were saying and doing. I don't even think it was usually out of malice. It was just part of the conversation. I don't think it occurred to anyone that there was anything disturbing about it. I did it myself, out of concern. Now, I'm appalled at myself. 12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative - withholding of emblems, allowance to speak and pray, and baptism. Granting visits with the most popular visiting workers. Appointing elders, bishops, song-leaders, mic-passers.13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think - across the board.14. Impose rigid rules and regulations 15. Instill dependency and obedience - The workers have the monopoly on salvation. Disobedience can lead to restrictions and excommunication.
Information Control 1. Deception: a. Deliberately withhold information - obvious. b. Distort information to make it more acceptable - CSA handlings c. Systematically lie to the cult member 2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media b.Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking 3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible b.Control information at different levels and missions within group c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when4. Encourage spying on other members a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group 5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources 6. Unethical use of confession a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories T hought Control 1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality b. Instill black and white thinking c. Decide between good vs. evil d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity 3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words. -possibly the most dangerous.- 4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member 6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created 7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including: a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking b. Chanting c. Meditating d. Praying e. Speaking in tongues f. Singing or humming8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed 10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful Emotional Control 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish 2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt 3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault 4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt h. Historical guilt 5. Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval 6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner 7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins 8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family
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bgm
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Post by bgm on May 19, 2016 0:04:04 GMT -5
The BITE model actually proves that 2x2ism is not a cult from my experience past and present. When I look at that list item by item, very little of it is anything I have ever experienced directly or even vaguely. Or perhaps the idea is that if one or two of that long list is accurate, then it qualifies of the labeling?? I wonder if those who experienced the BITE actually grew up in a cult family who created a cult experience based on 2x2 traditions. That may explain the discombobulation that is associated with the cult labeling. Most people who are in cults will tell you that NONE of the BITE model items exist for their experience. That's because BITE model items are not overtly communicated in the cult, they are done very subtly, so subtle that the cult victim thinks that they themselves are making a personal choice to do those things. Even after leaving a cult, many ex-members don't recognize the extent to which their behavior was modified by the cult. Yes, I have heard that irrational thought before: "if you don't think you are in a cult, you are in one!" Honestly, it's a nutty idea.
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Post by withlove on May 19, 2016 0:07:56 GMT -5
The BITE Model www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.phpEmotional Control 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish 2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt 3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt h. Historical guilt5. Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins 8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll. e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family Bolder emphasis and blue writing in this and previous post mine. Had some tech issues.
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bgm
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by bgm on May 19, 2016 0:45:21 GMT -5
Ok, let's have a look at how nutty this thread really is. There is some agreement here.
Behavior Control
1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
No. Friends do not think they are spacemen.
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
No. Just no.
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
Well ok. They believe that you should have sex with your spouse only, not with other spouses or whatever.
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
Influence by women on women is not unusual. No idea why this happens but it does. Men on men influence does occur...men are often seen wearing ties on Sunday.
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
Totally nutty here. Sorry for the pun.
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
Nutty...no pun here.
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
Money is the least of the issue among F&W's in any church system in the world.
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
Nope although you won't get to host a meeting if you have a big screen TV. (Does anyone use TV these days)
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
No idea what this means. Friends meet for 1 hour on Sunday and 1 hour on Wednesday. Major time? No
10. Permission required for major decisions
More nutty.
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors Only actual nutty people do this.
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
They beat on people? No
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
Duh, all groups do this and it is silly for them all.
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
Ok you have something here. No jewelry, no tattoos.
15. Instill dependency and obedience
Dependency on 2 hours of meetings/week? OOOOkaay.
Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
About church situations, true.
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
Duhh, standard politics
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
Wrong, when they lie, they actually believe it.
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
They don't even talk about information sources anymore
b.Critical information
What is this?
c. Former members
Lots of members talk with former members. Edgar Massey has lots of innie friends and they have no problems. More nutty.
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
Yes, busy two hours/week. There is no time left to 'investigate".
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
What can I say, this is nutty.
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
True enough there.
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
More nutty.
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
Some truth there.
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
About the church, yes. All other info freely available.
4. Encourage spying on other members
Heard of that in the past. Now considered nutty.
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
Only for members with known problems like CSA.
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
Maybe. Nutty people do that.
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group Members are too busy to run around checking out others.
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
None of that nonsense happens.
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
Big one, that really does happen.
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
Catholics have confessions. 2x2's don't confess too often.
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
More Catholic ideas.
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories
Nutty
Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
Yes, this happens
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
Whatever that is. Some may well try to adopt the thinking of others.
b. Instill black and white thinking
Somethings yes, somethings no.
c. Decide between good vs. evil
Good thing for people to do.
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
Yes, this does exist.
2.Change person’s name and identity
Nutty
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz word All language is loaded with meaning.
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
Sounds good to think about good things.
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
No hypnosis among 2x2's
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
Nutty
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
Nutty
b. Chanting
Nuttty
c. Meditating
Yes they do that
d. Praying
Yes they do that
e. Speaking in tongues
No, maybe nutty
f. Singing or humming
They sing hymns.
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
Probably in some form.
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
Good one there, yes
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
Yes
Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
Sounds nutty
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
Nutty
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
True, the way is perfect and the people aren't.
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
Probably
b. You are not living up to your potential
Non-existent
c. Your family is deficient
Lol, now this list is getting nutty.
d. Your past is suspect
Ooookaay.
e. Your affiliations are unwise
Some affiliates probably are pretty stupid!
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
Sometimes are, sometimes are not
g. Social guilt
Nutty I think
h. Historical guilt
We made a mistake once, sorry.
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
Scary....??
b. The outside world
Out to getcha? No, not promoted anymore. c. Enemies
Probably have a few, yep.
d. Losing one’s salvation
True here.
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
Happens decreasingly.
f. Other’s disapproval
Happens. 6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
Nutty
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
Nutty. They do the opposite.
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
Yes.
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
General belief yes.
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
Probably believed but not spoken.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
No shunning anymore except for actively destructive people.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
True
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family Nutty
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 8:14:01 GMT -5
Most people who are in cults will tell you that NONE of the BITE model items exist for their experience. That's because BITE model items are not overtly communicated in the cult, they are done very subtly, so subtle that the cult victim thinks that they themselves are making a personal choice to do those things. Even after leaving a cult, many ex-members don't recognize the extent to which their behavior was modified by the cult. Yes, I have heard that irrational thought before: "if you don't think you are in a cult, you are in one!" Honestly, it's a nutty idea. Thanks for the bump. You've completely mischaracterized the statement. If people knew they were in a cult, then there would be no one in cults since no one wants to be in a cult. The problem is that folks in cults don't know that they are in cults. It's very very hard to get them to realize they are in a cult since they simply cannot come to grips with the idea that THEY WERE HOODWINKED. That's why the BITE model is helpful - it has a lot of different items to check your group against, and it gets the person thinking, 'Maybe, maybe. Ok, I'm not in a cult, but maybe there are a few things about this group which are cult-like', and that opens the door to starting to look at things more seriously.
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Post by rational on May 19, 2016 8:25:01 GMT -5
Surprising how many of these traits apply to christianity as well as many other mainstream religions. Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making. Reading many of the stories that have been written it would appear that the F&W becomes a convenient scape goat for the wrongs that often are the result of growing up in a dysfunctional family, one that would most likely suffer the same problems irrespective of their religious affiliation.
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Post by breakingfree on May 19, 2016 12:20:48 GMT -5
Surprising how few of these apply to the 2x2 church AS I KNEW IT. I don't doubt Simpleton grew up in a cult - but I wonder whether it was of the church's making or of his parent's making. Reading many of the stories that have been written it would appear that the F&W becomes a convenient scape goat for the wrongs that often are the result of growing up in a dysfunctional family, one that would most likely suffer the same problems irrespective of their religious affiliation. Since the majority of the F&W are born and raised in the 2x2's, perhaps the system is the cause of the dysfunctional families?
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