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Post by churchmouse on May 3, 2016 21:02:04 GMT -5
Taking Hebrews 10:25 into consideration, how do the workers view people who routinely (say, once a month or more) miss Sunday morning meeting or Wednesday night Bible study due to work or visiting family? What about those who miss meeting only on occasion (1-3x a year or less) for those reasons?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:18:34 GMT -5
Thank you for your use of large typeface! It is of great help to someone growing blind like me.
That verse was thrown up at me by my own mother after my being excommunicated! For myself, to understand that scripture, required me to think about to whom it was written, and the meaning it had to them. It was written to the Hebrew people, with reference to the assembling of themselves as expected of them by what they had been taught and recorded in the Old Testament. Some of those assemblies they had been taught to keep forever.
How "workers" believe, or those depending upon what they believe, should not be the issue in the least.
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Post by churchmouse on May 3, 2016 21:49:06 GMT -5
To clarify, I'm not asking because it's an issue with the workers (that I know of) but because it's an issue in some churches, and so I'm curious how the workers interpret this verse. It was written for the Jewish Christians, so I believe it has some relevance to us today. I'm just not sure to what extent.
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Post by churchmouse on May 7, 2016 17:31:22 GMT -5
Taking Hebrews 10:25 into consideration, how do the workers view people who routinely (say, once a month or more) miss Sunday morning meeting or Wednesday night Bible study due to work or visiting family? What about those who miss meeting only on occasion (1-3x a year or less) for those reasons? The workers are NOT so strict these days with the friends who had to work on Sunday, or miss a few meetings for whatever reasons... The workers encourage the friends to try our best to get the Sunday off, but they understand if we can't. I had to work on Sunday for 15 years until 2 years ago.
Today, the workers are more relax, than those in the past... They don't try to run the friends lives like they used to ... They allow the Spirit to lead and guide the friends. It works better when the Spirit convicts and convinces the friends.
Thank you. At any time during those 15 years, did the workers say anything to you about working on Sunday, Nathan? I've known people in meeting who work on Sunday once a month, even OTR truck drivers who go to meeting whenever they find opportunity. I am grappling with ideas some people have regarding Hebrews 10:25 that are very new to me. But, they also have a different belief about "the Spirit." To them, the spirit refers to our attitude toward God and His word, so they never speak of being convicted by the Spirit.
When I research Hebrews 10:25 in word-for-word Bible translations, it says "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as a custom of certain [is]..." (Young's Literal Translation, emphasis added). Does this imply that Christians who didn't meet every time the church assembled were sinning, especially when read in the context of the verses that follow?
I would not want to make excuses for disobeying a command in scripture, nor encourage anyone else to do so, but interpreting Hebrews 10:25 in a stricter sense than intended would be doing exactly what the scribes and Pharisees did regarding the Sabbath, wouldn't it? They even condemned Jesus and his apostles for working on the Sabbath in violation of their strict interpretation of the Law. Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 12:7: “if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.” And, in Matthew 12:12: "... it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Though, I don't know of any examples from scripture showing that any of the deeds of Jesus or his disciples interfered with worship at the temple.
So, I'm wondering, what about people today who have human service-type jobs and are required to work sometimes on Sunday or Wednesday night? Despite our desire to do good through our job, would we be sinning against God in that we would not be putting Him first? If our job typically doesn't require us to work when the church meets, but on one occasion we are told we must do so, should we stand up to our boss? Would we be a coward/ashamed of Christ if we didn't object? How, then, do we interpret Colossians 3:22, 1 Timothy 6:1 and Ephesians 6:5-8:
I guess this could be considered 2 different issues, since we can be hardworking and trustworthy in our jobs and still refuse to work when the church meets. Our boss may be more likely to consider our position if we are otherwise dependable.
Along the same lines, though, what if we are in the role of caretaker, either in a job or in a personal capacity. If we depend on someone else to relieve us of our duties, but the other person(s) shirk(s) their duty or cannot fulfill their duty because of circumstances beyond their control, would it be acceptable to abandon our charges to assemble with the church?
There are people who believe we would be unfaithful to God otherwise. For one, they think they would be teaching the one(s) who shirked their duty a lesson -- yes, at the hands of innocent children or the infirm! I suppose the belief is that God will keep them safe if we are faithful to Him. But, aren't we tempting God if we expect Him to protect us or our charges, when placing ourselves or someone else at risk, as proof of His favor toward us (Matthew 4:7; Exodus 17:7; Deuteronomy 6:16)?
Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 4:01:16 GMT -5
Going to church every Sunday on it own will not get anyone into heaven, nor would missing a few Sundays cause anyone to miss out. I guess that lots of hypocrits go to church every Sunday, that alone will not not be enough, it is not the going to church that matters, it is the way we live our lives to serve and please God. Regular church attendance is acceptable because it can help to keep us edified, supportive and encouraging to one another in our walk with God. Everyone has to earn a living and some folks have to work on Sundays and Saturdays because it is vital and necessary according to their professions - medical fields, security, Policing, public transport etc. etc. I once had a discussion with a neighbour who was a member of the seventh Day Adventists Church, and he was insisting that no one shoud work on the Sabbath. Yet he was usung the public transport system to get to church, so when I pointed out to him that he was aiding and abetting working on the sabbath, since the bus drivers were on duty, he had no answer for that one.. The scripture tells us that by the sweat of our brows we shall eat bread or words to that effect, so some of us will have to work on Sundays and on Saturdays to support ourselves and our families. I am sure that sheperds of the flock must be well aware of that and take it into consideration. Don't workers, Pastors etc. work for God on Saturdays and Sundays??
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Post by churchmouse on May 8, 2016 13:49:37 GMT -5
Going to church every Sunday on it own will not get anyone into heaven, nor would missing a few Sundays cause anyone to miss out. I guess that lots of hypocrits go to church every Sunday, that alone will not not be enough, it is not the going to church that matters, it is the way we live our lives to serve and please God. Regular church attendance is acceptable because it can help to keep us edified, supportive and encouraging to one another in our walk with God. Everyone has to earn a living and some folks have to work on Sundays and Saturdays because it is vital and necessary according to their professions - medical fields, security, Policing, public transport etc. etc. I once had a discussion with a neighbour who was a member of the seventh Day Adventists Church, and he was insisting that no one should work on the Sabbath. Yet he was using the public transport system to get to church, so when I pointed out to him that he was aiding and abetting working on the sabbath, since the bus drivers were on duty, he had no answer for that one.. The scripture tells us that by the sweat of our brows we shall eat bread or words to that effect, so some of us will have to work on Sundays and on Saturdays to support ourselves and our families. I am sure that shepherds of the flock must be well aware of that and take it into consideration. Don't workers, Pastors etc. work for God on Saturdays and Sundays?? After seeing a lot of hypocrisy in Meeting, I came to the same conclusion you did, several years ago -- that we worship and serve God in Spirit and Truth when we obey His commands in our daily lives; and, that meeting/worship services are for our edification and encouragement to remain faithful. What you said about certain occupations needing to work on Saturdays and Sundays is something that has troubled me in relation to the belief that absence from a worship service on account of working is sin which needs to be repented of. Those occupations require people to be available for work on weekends and extended hours. Even if a doctor establishes a private practice or a nurse finds work in private practice, they would have worked long hours on all different shifts during training and in the early years of their careers.
So, the question that comes to mind is whether certain churches discourage their members -- prohibit them, even -- from entering certain occupations, because they believe that Christians are not to be a part of the world around them or concerned with people outside of the Church. That thought leaves me stunned, as Jesus was concerned about those around him, including sinners and Gentiles. He healed people who were ostracized by the self-righteous scribes and Pharisees, was condemned for doing so on the Sabbath, and ultimately was crucified for breaking man-made laws. It just seems to me that the religious people I'm speaking of are doing the same thing the scribes and Pharisees did by taking a verse of scripture out of context, giving it a stricter interpretation than intended, and then ignoring all other scripture that conflicts with their interpretation.
I think very few people in that church have any college education, other than church leaders who, BTW, are not ordained ministers, priests or pastors and are not paid for their work in the church but take some seminary classes. So, I'm thinking that higher education is generally frowned on. But, there are many occupations, professional and nonprofessional, that require working on the weekend. It's not easy for everyone to find the few jobs available that do not require any weekend or evening work.
I also knew someone who was a Sabbath-keeper (Baptist), at least in theory, and criticized me for working on Saturday (I had to work one day on the weekend). But, she didn't make an effort to attend services on the Sabbath. She attended services with me a few times and then started making excuses for not going, like having to color her hair. I could see why excuses like that, and playing golf Sunday morning, would be greatly frowned upon; but, making a living to support ourselves and/or families, or tending to the weak and infirm? Just as Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for Man and not Man for the Sabbath, wouldn't that also pertain to any time a church assembles? We should want to attend not only to be fed ourselves, but also to feed the flock. Again, I hope I'm not leading anyone off the mark with any of my comments; I'm really struggling to understand this correctly myself.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 14:26:34 GMT -5
No one is perfect, but we aught to be able to spot mistakes, attempt to correct them and most importantly, learn from them. Jesus Himself pointed our the necessity of doing good work on the sabbath, like breaking corn in the corn field or not leaving an animal in a well if it fell into the well on the sabbath.
I recall a brother worker speaking from the platform at a convention a few year ago about trying not to miss meetings even if we are not feeling very well. He went on to say that i is the most important time that we should make every effort to attend because we could miss some very important edifying messages, if we dont attend; at the time a thought came to mind that if a person is really not well, he or she might miss everything because their focus and concentration would be on the pain and discomfort/suffering, also they might collapse and have to be taken away thereby disrupting the whole meeting for others; not to ignore the fact that delaying treatment/ medical attention, could be dangerous and life threatening.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 19:14:50 GMT -5
Taking Hebrews 10:25 into consideration, how do the workers view people who routinely (say, once a month or more) miss Sunday morning meeting or Wednesday night Bible study due to work or visiting family? What about those who miss meeting only on occasion (1-3x a year or less) for those reasons? I think forsaking meetings is a more deliberate act not missing because you are sick or have to work which you don't have a lot of control over...
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 8, 2016 23:33:47 GMT -5
Thank you for your use of large typeface! It is of great help to someone growing blind like me.
That verse was thrown up at me by my own mother after my being excommunicated! For myself, to understand that scripture, required me to think about to whom it was written, and the meaning it had to them. It was written to the Hebrew people, with reference to the assembling of themselves as expected of them by what they had been taught and recorded in the Old Testament. Some of those assemblies they had been taught to keep forever.
How "workers" believe, or those depending upon what they believe, should not be the issue in the least. The letter was not written merely to the "Hebrew people". It was written to Hebrews who had become Christians, many of whom had probably been Christians for years or even decades at the time of writing. I think it's safe to say that the recipients had already been attending Christian meetings for some time.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 3:26:09 GMT -5
Taking Hebrews 10:25 into consideration, how do the workers view people who routinely (say, once a month or more) miss Sunday morning meeting or Wednesday night Bible study due to work or visiting family? What about those who miss meeting only on occasion (1-3x a year or less) for those reasons? I think forsaking meetings is a more deliberate act not missing because you are sick or have to work which you don't have a lot of control over... Yes, I am sure that some folks forsake meetings deliberately for all sorts of reasons that God, the ultimate and righteous judge, knows about and He will be able to deal with that when the time comes. He gave everyone a free will to make choices and people choose their paths. ps Mankind can be very bias in his/her judgements. Warning: Matth. 7:1-3-- Judge not that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure you mete............
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sray
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Post by sray on Sept 2, 2017 0:50:17 GMT -5
Going to church every Sunday on it own will not get anyone into heaven, nor would missing a few Sundays cause anyone to miss out. I guess that lots of hypocrits go to church every Sunday, that alone will not not be enough, it is not the going to church that matters, it is the way we live our lives to serve and please God. Regular church attendance is acceptable because it can help to keep us edified, supportive and encouraging to one another in our walk with God. Everyone has to earn a living and some folks have to work on Sundays and Saturdays because it is vital and necessary according to their professions - medical fields, security, Policing, public transport etc. etc. I once had a discussion with a neighbour who was a member of the seventh Day Adventists Church, and he was insisting that no one shoud work on the Sabbath. Yet he was usung the public transport system to get to church, so when I pointed out to him that he was aiding and abetting working on the sabbath, since the bus drivers were on duty, he had no answer for that one.. The scripture tells us that by the sweat of our brows we shall eat bread or words to that effect, so some of us will have to work on Sundays and on Saturdays to support ourselves and our families. I am sure that sheperds of the flock must be well aware of that and take it into consideration. Don't workers, Pastors etc. work for God on Saturdays and Sundays?? It's the way we live our lives to serve and please God that will get me to heaven? So, in other words I have to be a good person? But, I thought Jesus said that only God is good? Am I not always a sinner except for Jesus blood making me perfect in the eyes of my father in heaven? sorry, you've left me confused. Please add scripture as to where is says I can obtain eternal salvation through the way I live my life.
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Post by iam on Feb 19, 2020 12:59:06 GMT -5
Taking Hebrews 10:25 into consideration, how do the workers view people who routinely (say, once a month or more) miss Sunday morning meeting or Wednesday night Bible study due to work or visiting family? What about those who miss meeting only on occasion (1-3x a year or less) for those reasons? I was visiting a friend recently and she made the comment in a disapproving tone about a family that didn't often get out to their Wednesday night bible meetings...that they were "sick". My thoughts are there are a lot that are sick that ARE there regularly but for goodness sakes, if someone is spiritually sick do we sit back and accuse them of being sick? How sick is that? If someone appears to be "losing out" do we sit back and shake our heads disapprovingly because they're "weak" or "sick"? What does Jesus say? Visit them. Who DOES that? What did Jesus do? He bare our sicknesses. How do we do that? I can go to meetings and come away feeling more sick than when I went. Why? Because the spirit of condemnation towards those that are spiritually lame, sick, weak, wounded, etc isn't conducive to healing and comfort. Those that are barely making ends meet and falling, we might give them a hug... that's not enough and it's not scriptural. I don't like to find fault with this person that said that, because none of us seem to be doing any better, but it's a learning experience and helps us to understand what our failures that we're not allowed to speak about are causing. I wonder myself if some workers wish they could skip some meetings. I'm sure they feel it too. Other workers and friends may feel more comfortable being willfully blind but for me, that doesn't feel honest in heart.
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Post by iam on Feb 19, 2020 13:24:11 GMT -5
I think forsaking meetings is a more deliberate act not missing because you are sick or have to work which you don't have a lot of control over... Yes, I am sure that some folks forsake meetings deliberately for all sorts of reasons that God, the ultimate and righteous judge, knows about and He will be able to deal with that when the time comes. He gave everyone a free will to make choices and people choose their paths. ps Mankind can be very bias in his/her judgements. Warning: Matth. 7:1-3-- Judge not that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure you mete............ I sometimes miss meetings because of the hypocrisy and censorship of some of Christ's teachings or the teachings of the apostles and true prophets. I can feel the cold reception if I speak about the true condition of our church today but it's probably no different here. A worker said to me once "where 2 or three are gathered together" is sometimes just you and Jesus. I find that to be very true and have felt a closer fellowship with Jesus than I would in meeting but it takes discipline (which I lack due to being distracted by the internet or whatever) to have my own "meeting" when I am alone and others are at meeting. But Jesus has never forsaken me by any means when I do MY part to the best of my ability. His judgment is righteous! Our judgment...leaves a lot to be desired.
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