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Post by Roselyn T on May 27, 2016 19:51:07 GMT -5
propaganda, I believe you maybe avoiding my question on the other thread ....
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Post by Roselyn T on May 27, 2016 19:53:24 GMT -5
Yes, the friends are suffering!! That's why they are running these forums trying to sort out all 'these issues'!! I think we need some more threads to chew on:)!! There's people starving around the world and terrible things happening right now and you are consumed with this!! Don't you care about those that are suffering in your "only right church" propaganda ?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 20:42:51 GMT -5
I ASSume that they are visiting where they may as God leads them but don't know for sure their MO.
When it comes to preaching the gospel I don't observe worldly law because God is not subject to worldly laws worldly laws are in subjection to him.
That attitude will not go down very well with the judge once they are nicked for what they are doing. It also shows how morally bankrupt the friends have become. First of all it was one wee lie, the one about coming from Jesus, then it was some dodgy names of the organisation to avoid conscription, then it was failing to report CSA and claiming that they were not an organisation, now it is sneaking into countries under the radar, ignoring sovereign nation law and believing they are above it. Do you see a pattern here, what is the next lie to be about? that's okay on judgment day when the roles are reversed and Gods law reigns supreme they will wish for better days....
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 27, 2016 21:09:20 GMT -5
That attitude will not go down very well with the judge once they are nicked for what they are doing. It also shows how morally bankrupt the friends have become. First of all it was one wee lie, the one about coming from Jesus, then it was some dodgy names of the organisation to avoid conscription, then it was failing to report CSA and claiming that they were not an organisation, now it is sneaking into countries under the radar, ignoring sovereign nation law and believing they are above it. Do you see a pattern here, what is the next lie to be about? that's okay on judgment day when the roles are reversed and Gods law reigns supreme they will wish for better days.... The very thing that causes me to weep for them as they will answer for those they've led by those deceits.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 27, 2016 22:45:01 GMT -5
That attitude will not go down very well with the judge once they are nicked for what they are doing. It also shows how morally bankrupt the friends have become. First of all it was one wee lie, the one about coming from Jesus, then it was some dodgy names of the organisation to avoid conscription, then it was failing to report CSA and claiming that they were not an organisation, now it is sneaking into countries under the radar, ignoring sovereign nation law and believing they are above it. Do you see a pattern here, what is the next lie to be about? that's okay on judgment day when the roles are reversed and Gods law reigns supreme they will wish for better days.... It looks like you have a belief in a God of evil and dishonesty. You are so immoral.
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Post by ellie on May 27, 2016 23:09:38 GMT -5
Ha the stories! So true and so ridiculous. My husband was demoted from waiting tables after wearing shorts on the job. No way you must be kidding me! No kidding and the shorts were only worn at breakfast time. This was just a few years back too.That wouldn't surprise me. All sorts of people out there
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 4:21:43 GMT -5
Yes, the friends are suffering!! That's why they are running these forums trying to sort out all 'these issues'!! I think we need some more threads to chew on:)!! There's people starving around the world and terrible things happening right now and you are consumed with this!! If there was a open honest dialogue between the workers and friends and also appropriate actions taken when valued concerns are raised then forums us this one would most likely not attract many of us. The other day when our overseer visited us he said that some false church was taken up to much with helping the needy.This is one more subject I want to open and honestly discuss with the workers and did not have the back bone at the time to discuss with the overseer.Our local church has a food bank and a second hand clothing store to donate too, which helps the needy in the area. Paul helped to distribute the collections of the Christians to the needy saints on more than one occasion. Jesus told us that we will be judged how we treat the least amongst us and He did not mean just our fellow Christian as clearly understood in the parable of the Good Samara than. Once I asked a worker in Colorado why don't we have Gospel meetings that would allow questions from the audience. He said that the overseer does not approve of that.Why not ? I should have had the guts to ask the overseer myself. This is one of the way's how we can get a deeper clearer insight into God's word and help us to grow and correct things that are not according to His word.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 4:34:58 GMT -5
In our area, they spend just about all their time just going from one of the "Friends" house to the next. Not sure if some spend any time looking for "lost souls". The reason giving is they are watching over the flock. Caring for God's sheep. I do think more time should be spent spreading the "Gospel" (good news). Finding those that may be looking. It seems that's what we read most of them were doing, most of the time, in the New Testament. Boksburg, in my area the women workers are very busy around the house doing whatever they can to help. Younger ones more so than older ones. But it's interesting how when the men workers come around you just about have to wait on them hand and foot. They Some barely even carry their own plates from the table to the sink. JD - i see the same thing here in the northeastern USA. The friends are the main mechanism for bringing "outsiders" to hear this gospel. Most vibrant churches in my area have a strong social media presence, not just for the sake of keeping in communication with members but also as a source of basic information for people wondering about the church's beliefs. Wouldn't it be interesting if one of the friends took it upon themselves to create such a social media presence. That is great to hear that the women workers in you area are actually helping around the house.As for brother workers,I don't know what is wrong with their hands I have only had one as far as I can remember that offered to do the dishes. Once we were invited to the elders house for lunch with 2 young( the oldest was in his 40's) brother workers and after lunch while I was helping the women of the house to clean up one of them said he needed a nap and henceforth he went
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 4:53:13 GMT -5
I say that those verses that talk about obeying gov't or authority were talking about the church not worldly gov'ts... Read it again - it is talking about kings and governors and every human ordinance - not at all to do with authorities within the church. It was enjoined upon the church to show up as false the charge that the church was doing illegal stuff. I also understand it as being government authorities since Romans makes it clear that these higher powers have power to execute wrath upon him that doth evil,which power the workers don't have. The workers should not have any power over us ,only God should.Were did Jesus say that they should rule over us ?Jesus gave the example of washing their feet and told them to do likewise and when he told Peter to feed His sheep it was to take care of His sheep not to rule over them. But I am more than willing to learn if someone has a clearer revelation about this. Romans 13:1-4King James Version (KJV) "13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."
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Post by propaganda on May 28, 2016 7:39:08 GMT -5
We often ask questions and have open discussions with workers and friends. The difference I see with the people on this forum is that they are 'questioning' everything and not asking questions and having a discussion. These same people often think they have all the answers so it wouldn't be a very edifying Q and A, if you as honest??
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Post by jondough on May 28, 2016 8:16:41 GMT -5
We often ask questions and have open discussions with workers and friends. The difference I see with the people on this forum is that they are 'questioning' everything and not asking questions and having a discussion. These same people often think they have all the answers so it wouldn't be a very edifying Q and A, if you as honest?? This is a blanket statement that is a weak excuse. If you knew the friends in our area, you wouldn't say that at all. Even if there would be one or two that may have wroing intentions as you suggest. The majority of Friends are all VERY good people, with good intentions, wanting to do what is right.
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Post by jondough on May 28, 2016 8:20:33 GMT -5
It's one of the things that we've enjoyed immensely in the three main churches we've been to since leaving the 2x2 church. Open Q&A sessions - at a number of church meetings and also at Christian conventions we attend. I never understood why workers wouldn't answer questions publicly. They must be worried or scared of what people might ask. The non-2x2s, the friends or anyone are welcome to ask the workers any questions when the workers visiting in their homes or after the gospel meetings, that was how we did it when I was in the work and I believe they still do the same today. We had public gathering for the young people, questions and answering once a month when I was with Lowell Stildolp.
Leo Stancliff, Harold B, Craig J. and myself had Bible studies at the college and people were free to ask any questions they wanted.
You are right about Leo. He loved answering questions. Anytime, anywhere. I wish we had more workers like him. He wouldn't sugar coat the answers either. He answered them very honestly. If something we did was a tradition, he would tell you it was exactly that that. He use to have little meetings, between meeting at conventions, and do question and answer sessions, along with studies. That always encouraged me that he answered so honestly.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 15:02:20 GMT -5
If Barry Barkley or Dale Shultz were to "lose out" would they be hated? I believe so.
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Post by learning on May 31, 2016 8:06:11 GMT -5
If Barry Barkley or Dale Shultz were to "lose out" would they be hated? I believe so. The question started out are they loved, and now it's turned to would they be hated. Those are two different discussions, I think. Who or what type of person do you think would "hate" these two individuals if they "lost out"? Please expand on the reasoning behind that statement.
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Post by learning on May 31, 2016 8:14:32 GMT -5
We often ask questions and have open discussions with workers and friends. The difference I see with the people on this forum is that they are 'questioning' everything and not asking questions and having a discussion. These same people often think they have all the answers so it wouldn't be a very edifying Q and A, if you as honest?? Are the types of questions and open discussions you refer to have the same subject content as is frequented on this board, such as spiritual exclusivity? This and similar issues are pretty sensitive ones for most people to raise with someone like a worker who buys into the system enough to give their entire life to propagating that version of the gospel story. I recognize the tendency to "question" the same issues over and over again. Lacking a specific undermining or insidious reason for these questions, the questions continue. Why? It may be because the person struggles to accept that their previously held beliefs are in fact incorrect. It's a pretty unsettled way to live but the questioning will probably continue until they just grow numb to it all or otherwise just 'let it go'.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 8:18:44 GMT -5
I personally believe that the worship for the system doesn't translate to love for the members, in some cases. Of course, many meetings are full of kinfolks.
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Post by jondough on May 31, 2016 8:37:25 GMT -5
I see Walker's point. The Workers that leave the "Truth" are rarely contacted by anyone. They are pretty much forgotten, and not talked about. I can give you.mulitple examples. I'm not sure that "hate" is the right term, but again, if it was your kid, would you simply just forget about them just because they no longer go to meeting? I think not. Why? Because you love your kid. Your actions really indicate whether you really do love someone or not....not your words.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 8:42:28 GMT -5
The non-2x2s, the friends or anyone are welcome to ask the workers any questions when the workers visiting in their homes or after the gospel meetings, that was how we did it when I was in the work and I believe they still do the same today. We had public gathering for the young people, questions and answering once a month when I was with Lowell Stildolp.
Leo Stancliff, Harold B, Craig J. and myself had Bible studies at the college and people were free to ask any questions they wanted.
You are right about Leo. He loved answering questions. Anytime, anywhere. I wish we had more workers like him. He wouldn't sugar coat the answers either. He answered them very honestly. If something we did was a tradition, he would tell you it was exactly that that. He use to have little meetings, between meeting at conventions, and do question and answer sessions, along with studies. That always encouraged me that he answered so honestly. It would have been so different had all the workers been as the one you describe.The sister worker in our field also is open to questions and answers but since she doesn't have much say there is not much she can do to change things in the fellowship. I have been working with some overseers and 3 of them have just ignored my mature e mails with valid concerns the other one has responded but doesn't acknowledge that CSA and sexual immoralities have not been dealt with appropriately and he doesn't see a need for guidelines since he say's God has given us guidelines all ready.If we are led by the Holy Spirit 100% of the time we would ad hire to God's guidelines 100% of the time but since that is not all way's the case with most of us we need human guidelines to protect the innocent and vulnerable amongst us which would be in accordance with what God would want us to do.
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Post by withlove on Jun 1, 2016 1:03:11 GMT -5
You are right about Leo. He loved answering questions. Anytime, anywhere. I wish we had more workers like him. He wouldn't sugar coat the answers either. He answered them very honestly. If something we did was a tradition, he would tell you it was exactly that that. He use to have little meetings, between meeting at conventions, and do question and answer sessions, along with studies. That always encouraged me that he answered so honestly. It would have been so different had all the workers been as the one you describe.The sister worker in our field also is open to questions and answers but since she doesn't have much say there is not much she can do to change things in the fellowship. I have been working with some overseers and 3 of them have just ignored my mature e mails with valid concerns the other one has responded but doesn't acknowledge that CSA and sexual immoralities have not been dealt with appropriately and he doesn't see a need for guidelines since he say's God has given us guidelines all ready.If we are led by the Holy Spirit 100% of the time we would ad hire to God's guidelines 100% of the time but since that is not all way's the case with most of us we need human guidelines to protect the innocent and vulnerable amongst us which would be in accordance with what God would want us to do. Are conventions still ongoing there? Have been wondering if you had gotten any responses. Stay encouraged!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 1, 2016 2:01:05 GMT -5
The non-2x2s, the friends or anyone are welcome to ask the workers any questions when the workers visiting in their homes or after the gospel meetings, that was how we did it when I was in the work and I believe they still do the same today. We had public gathering for the young people, questions and answering once a month when I was with Lowell Stildolp.
Leo Stancliff, Harold B, Craig J. and myself had Bible studies at the college and people were free to ask any questions they wanted.
You are right about Leo. He loved answering questions. Anytime, anywhere. I wish we had more workers like him. He wouldn't sugar coat the answers either. He answered them very honestly. If something we did was a tradition, he would tell you it was exactly that that. He use to have little meetings, between meeting at conventions, and do question and answer sessions, along with studies. That always encouraged me that he answered so honestly. For some reason they stopped all in between and after night MTG. Gatherings. Used to have singing usually led by some worker. Also years ago workers would slip into a group of folks visiting in the MTG. shed and start a round table discussion and question. Sometimes only 15 mins. but we learned more then probably then MTG time. But now days there is hardly a worker to be found between MTG.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 1, 2016 2:02:46 GMT -5
If Barry Barkley or Dale Shultz were to "lose out" would they be hated? I believe so. The question started out are they loved, and now it's turned to would they be hated. Those are two different discussions, I think. Who or what type of person do you think would "hate" these two individuals if they "lost out"? Please expand on the reasoning behind that statement. I don't think they'd be hated. But likely be shunned.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 6:14:46 GMT -5
It would have been so different had all the workers been as the one you describe.The sister worker in our field also is open to questions and answers but since she doesn't have much say there is not much she can do to change things in the fellowship. I have been working with some overseers and 3 of them have just ignored my mature e mails with valid concerns the other one has responded but doesn't acknowledge that CSA and sexual immoralities have not been dealt with appropriately and he doesn't see a need for guidelines since he say's God has given us guidelines all ready.If we are led by the Holy Spirit 100% of the time we would ad hire to God's guidelines 100% of the time but since that is not all way's the case with most of us we need human guidelines to protect the innocent and vulnerable amongst us which would be in accordance with what God would want us to do. Are conventions still ongoing there? Have been wondering if you had gotten any responses. Stay encouraged! South African conventions are done. All 3 of the workers including the overseer of S.A ignored my e mails. The overseer only send me a forwarded e mail about the dangers of feeding on the wrong things. Our own overseer in the U.S has responded. Thanks I will try and stay encouraged,I do have my doubts that anything will come from it.At least I know that the workers here are doing the "Ministry safe course" since that is what our sister worker in our area said.
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Post by withlove on Jun 1, 2016 7:38:37 GMT -5
Are conventions still ongoing there? Have been wondering if you had gotten any responses. Stay encouraged! South African conventions are done. All 3 of the workers including the overseer of S.A ignored my e mails. The overseer only send me a forwarded e mail about the dangers of feeding on the wrong things. Our own overseer in the U.S has responded. Thanks I will try and stay encouraged,I do have my doubts that anything will come from it.At least I know that the workers here are doing the "Ministry safe course" since that is what our sister worker in our area said. I don't know what to say. A forwarded email about feeding on the wrong things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 7:49:39 GMT -5
South African conventions are done. All 3 of the workers including the overseer of S.A ignored my e mails. The overseer only send me a forwarded e mail about the dangers of feeding on the wrong things. Our own overseer in the U.S has responded. Thanks I will try and stay encouraged,I do have my doubts that anything will come from it.At least I know that the workers here are doing the "Ministry safe course" since that is what our sister worker in our area said. I don't know what to say. A forwarded email about feeding on the wrong things. The overseer was definitely not interested in discussing CSA or sexual immoralities in the fellowship/ministry with me for reasons that I would never know,so by sending me this sermon(it was a sermon by another worker on feeding on the wrong things) he probably thought it might discourage me from pursuing this further.So sad when workers think that they have the right to ignore the friends on valid concerns. It is not a good reflection on them as spiritual leaders.But alas one day we will all have to answer to God and that is what I told these 3 workers,that if they don't deal with it appropriately now that one day they will have to answer to God.
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