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Post by ellie on May 4, 2016 5:15:01 GMT -5
We are the only creatures made in the image of God, with this i nbuilt sense of justice and morality, with God as the ultimate judge and lawgiver. It does not belong to the animals, it belongs to us, the sons of God. No matter how close the monkeys are to us in DNA, you can be assured they are not discussing these issues on the internet or elsewhere. A couple of observations on that.
1. If indeed humans are the "only creatures made in the image of God, with this inbuilt sense of justice and morality," then we are doing a lousy job of it!
2. If indeed we are "made in the image of GOD with HIS inbuilt sense of justice and morality," then we have a good excuse for doing a lousy job because God HIMSELF was a lousy role model!We could indeed be doing a better job, but I don't think we are the only creatures with a sense of morality or the only ones capable of empathy. Whomever spread that idea has done a lot of beings a great disservice. I hope to see a real change in this attitude in my life time.
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Post by ellie on May 4, 2016 7:15:00 GMT -5
I'm lost. If God is capable of mercy and forgiveness why do you think god needs some sort of blood sacrifice? God doesn't need it This is correct an omnipotent and omniscient being has no need whatsoever for a sacrifice for sin.Not if god is omnipotent. I think it’s more accurate to say some people believe that they need it.Here things start going a bit pear shaped. If god is omnipotent and omniscient then god is having some confusion with using the all power function and the all-knowing function. Firstly being omnipotent god must be responsible for this thing call sin. Yet the omniscient one somehow fails to know that the sin was going to separate god’s self from humankind. And if that wasn’t confusion enough the all-knowing god has also forgotten the all-power button that would fix that problem. Instead this all powerful god decides that the ONLY way that this sin can be conquered is by god’s own death in human form. Yet if god is omnipotent than conquering death is not really an option as an all-powerful being would already be in control of death. Then again an all-powerful being should have the power to decide that god’s self does not want to be in control of something. But then the all-powerful one would cease to be all omnipotent. So does that mean that it's not possible to be omnipotent or is there some other way around this? And I haven't gone near all loving I think I'd better stop. Maybe my omnipotent, omniscient assumptions about the christian god are off.
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Post by ellie on May 4, 2016 7:51:12 GMT -5
This is correct an omnipotent and omniscient being has no need whatsoever for a sacrifice for sin.Not if god is omnipotent. I think it’s more accurate to say some people believe that they need it.Here things start going a bit pear shaped. If god is omnipotent and omniscient then god is having some confusion with using the all power function and the all-knowing function. Firstly being omnipotent god must be responsible for this thing call sin. Yet the omniscient one somehow fails to know that the sin was going to separate god’s self from humankind. And if that wasn’t confusion enough the all-knowing god has also forgotten the all-power button that would fix that problem. Instead this all powerful god decides that the ONLY way that this sin can be conquered is by god’s own death in human form. Yet if god is omnipotent than conquering death is not really an option as an all-powerful being would already be in control of death. Then again an all-powerful being should have the power to decide that god’s self does not want to be in control of something. But then the all-powerful one would cease to be all omnipotent. So does that mean that the original omnipotent one was not really omnipotent to begin with? And I think I’ll stop here Maybe my omnipotent, omniscient assumptions about the christian god are off. i have no idea why the fall of man occurred but I know it has occurred - it is evident everywhere. I think humanness is everywhere. As you say
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Post by rational on May 4, 2016 8:50:29 GMT -5
Simple answer shed blood and sacrificial killing are primitive ideas that have stuck around albeit in modified form. Killing does not atone for sin. People will interpret as it suits them, but there are bible verses even that straight out say God does not desire sacrifice. Perhaps from the mistaken belief that life was somehow contained within blood. God does not desire sacrifice yet christianity is based on the sacrifice of the son of god. And Jesus strongly implied that his sacrifice was needed: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.And the jews, at least Caiaphas, were not against the sacrifice either and decided to implement it themselves. Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.Sounds like this text might have been developed after the fact
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Post by ellie on May 4, 2016 9:20:39 GMT -5
Simple answer shed blood and sacrificial killing are primitive ideas that have stuck around albeit in modified form. Killing does not atone for sin. People will interpret as it suits them, but there are bible verses even that straight out say God does not desire sacrifice. Perhaps from the mistaken belief that life was somehow contained within blood. Sounds logical. Both from John? John's gospel is pretty but not factual. So I'd go with after the fact. The second reference doesn't necessary imply blood sacrifice though. I'd have to have a look at the gospel as a whole to see if the writer is in favour of the Jesus as a blood sacrifice idea. And it's late... and the writing is so metaphorical it's pretty easy to read anything in.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 4, 2016 15:28:09 GMT -5
I believe that a lot of people feel that the only species that one is supposed to treat morally is the human species -- and I normally think those people have a perverted sense of morality even in dealing with humans. I am seriously comforted by governments that see fit to extend moral treatment to all sentient life. I wonder how "moral" you think a lion or wolf or bear are when they kill another animal for food sometimes in the most brutal way? I should imagine that with your higher intelligence and access to firearms, you get your beef and pork on your plate through far less brutal means. All killing is brutal -- only humans kill for the sport of it, take only the tusks, and let the animal rot.
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Post by rational on May 4, 2016 16:32:10 GMT -5
Both from John? John's gospel is pretty but not factual. So I'd go with after the fact. How do you decide what bits in John are true and should be believed and what parts are pretty and can be ignored.That is the beauty of the bible - people can decide what any of the text means as long as it meets their needs.
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Post by rational on May 4, 2016 18:12:23 GMT -5
God makes it entirely clear in His Word why He doesn't want or desire continual sacrifices and rituals from His creation. Because they're meaningless. That's why He stepped in and provided the perfect solution. And the irony of it is that the solution was ...wait for it... a sacrifice (meaningless?). It is baffling how human and sacrifice and love can both be demonstrated by the same act. Is this like Abraham demonstrating his love for his son by preparing to kill him. And the solution for death - expediting the departure?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2016 20:25:15 GMT -5
Nate - there is nothing wrong with having emblems every day of the week if you wanted it - either in a home, church building, hall or sitting under a tree with a few other believers. Let's not get carried away with ridiculous legalisms which have nothing to do with the gospel. We know that in the early church believers had the emblems with their meal - it was a time of remembrance and celebration for what the Lord had done! Yes, it was with the meal but TOO much wine/getting drunk in their worship gathering, taken them from the true meaning in remembering of Jesus life, death, and sacrifice for our sins. Eventually, they did away with the natural meals and focus on the spirit meals/food for our souls.
What do you mean it has nothing to do with the gospel? It was part of our Christians life! It's a commandment of Jesus that we as believers must participate in remembering what God and Christ has done for our sins.
You do the way you want or your church wants.... We do it our way, every Sunday which is the best for us to gather in remembering Jesus as a group. Well, I remember him everyday, my thoughts and meditation on Jesus as I go through the day.Jesus said "As off as you do this , remember me." He was speaking to the passover feast. And that feast was done once a year. I do not gather that it is beyond instructions left by Jesus to celebrate passover more than once a year. The passover has always been symbolic of Jesus the sacrificial Lamb of God. I believe Jesus would have said for us to forget the passover feast and only keep the Eucharist if he'd felt weekly was what to be done. But the "as off as you do this, do it in remembrance of me" tells me Jesus was speaking to the Passover.The Jews have 5 cups of wine and ununleavened bread with their passover feast..each cup represents different things in relation to what God promised or did.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2016 20:30:54 GMT -5
Thankyou Ross.Bowden it would seem Ozzies are therefore more heathen than most, by what NathanB says. Partaking of the emblems is a wonderful experience, both uplifting and humbling, lovey to do it in the home where you fellowship, lovely to do it at convention and if perchance the fellowship meeting is a dry creek or river bed, so be it(or wherever else likeminded people are met together)......after all does a 'home' constitute 1, 2 3 or is it 10 rooms?? Away with the legalistic views, open our hearts and NathanB, visit Oz, attend convention, take part in the emblems if you feel and rejoice in the provision that has been so mercifully attended to us. It isn't conducive to fully experiencing the full depth of the meanings for the emblem if Jesus has not been spoken of in the MTG.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 4, 2016 20:42:57 GMT -5
Maryhig, you do believe in the resurrection, right? I think that and living your life according to things Jesus taught, because you believe he is the Son of God, would make you a Christian. Many times we hear "believe" but I guess what Jesus' disciples believed BEFORE he shed his blood was not sufficient?? Faith or believing in Jesus is not just that he was, but that what he did in dying on the cross is sufficient to cleanse us of our most horrible sins and clothes us in righteousness so that we can appear before the Father bearing Jesus' righteousness, not ours which at best is nothing but filthy rags. And that as Jesus said he has power to lay his life down and power to take it up again. Which is what happened. They crucified him, but he laid his life down. So they didn't get the chance to kill him. He by the power of resurrection took up his life again. A promise to all whosoever believes on him.
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Post by howitis on May 4, 2016 20:45:28 GMT -5
Thankyou Ross.Bowden it would seem Ozzies are therefore more heathen than most, by what NathanB says. Partaking of the emblems is a wonderful experience, both uplifting and humbling, lovey to do it in the home where you fellowship, lovely to do it at convention and if perchance the fellowship meeting is a dry creek or river bed, so be it(or wherever else likeminded people are met together)......after all does a 'home' constitute 1, 2 3 or is it 10 rooms?? Away with the legalistic views, open our hearts and NathanB , visit Oz, attend convention, take part in the emblems if you feel and rejoice in the provision that has been so mercifully attended to us. It isn't conducive to fully experiencing the full depth of the meanings for the emblem if Jesus has not been spoken of in the MTG. of course sharingtheriches and I always find the Sunday morning meeting at convention amazingly beautiful with it's mention of Jesus, yes even from overseas workers (sometimes Americans), obviously they don't really have a problem with communion at convention!!
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Post by ellie on May 5, 2016 1:52:49 GMT -5
Both from John? John's gospel is pretty but not factual. So I'd go with after the fact. How do you decide what bits in John are true and should be believed and what parts are pretty and can be ignored. Assume nothing is literal and leave it up to the scholars. I used the text for what was meaningful to me at the time. That method seemed to work fine. It's usually when people start using the text for deciding what other people should be doing or believing that problems arise. To be sure. I do it all the time
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2016 2:00:21 GMT -5
And the irony of it is that the solution was ...wait for it... a sacrifice (meaningless?). It is baffling how human and sacrifice and love can both be demonstrated by the same act. Is this like Abraham demonstrating his love for his son by preparing to kill him. And the solution for death - expediting the departure? I don't find it baffling at all. If a person is willing to die for another so that they might live - that sacrifice is completely selfless love. And God was willing to do that for humanity - so that they might be saved. Pretty amazing to my way of thinking... I worship the living God. Who has never died and never will die.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 2:25:52 GMT -5
Agree - we tend to do it once a month but some services at church do it fortnightly or more regularly. It's special. I added a bit more to my previous post about the deity of Jesus which you and I, along with others, staunchly defend on this Board. Awesome, I agree once we understand who Jesus Christ really is... Then the Emblems/Eucharists Christ's Passover, which we partake it has a VERY special meaning... God (the Son/Christ) who became flesh and blood (Jesus the son of man and God) to die for our sins. It was Jesus death and sacrifice that the angel of death will Passover us after we die and our spirits go directly to be with Him/Christ forever more.The blood of the lamb on the doorposts is when the spirit of God is with us and Christ is protecting us, he is the door and the way. And his blood protects our lives. And when we give our heart to God we are protected by the blood of Christ which is his life within us. And with his strength the spirit of death, which is Satan will pass over. And he won't have any power over us. Because the spirit within us is stronger than that of the world and Christ will be helping us to overcome. Satan offered Jesus all the kingdom's of the world. He denied them, and if he's walking with us, we will be denying them too. Being dead to the world and alive to God! John 10 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly...... With his life in our hearts, that thief can't get in to put us to death or destroy us, because we belong to Christ, his blood is in us and we're being saved daily by the spirit of the living God!
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 2:42:04 GMT -5
I don't find it baffling at all. If a person is willing to die for another so that they might live - that sacrifice is completely selfless love. And God was willing to do that for humanity - so that they might be saved. Pretty amazing to my way of thinking... I worship the living God. Who has never died and never will die. I agree, the only way that God has entered flesh is by his spirit entering our hearts. And Jesus had the whole strength of his spirit because he denied his own will. And lived for God, and he came in the image of God. But he's the son of God, as it says in the Bible not God the son (nowhere in the Bible) and he came and showed us the way for us to follow.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 3:16:57 GMT -5
Why would God have to come in flesh and be crucified to save us? Even worse, being crucified at the hand of Satan? God will never die at the hand of Satan in any way whatsoever.
In the old testament, the lamb was sacrificed by Gods people, with a clean cut to the throat and then the blood poured out.
Jesus was beaten, ridiculed, stripped, mocked and crucified by men with wicked hearts controlled by Satan. So proud and ignorant that they believed that they were doing the will of God. Even though God told them it was wrong to kill. Jesus even told them that they have the law of Moses, so why are they are trying to kill him. And they still did it. Evil men, doing the works of Satan. There is no way that God was in that. They were doing the works of their father the devil, just as Jesus said. And they were whitewashed sepulchres full of dead men's bones. Dead graves with no life in them. Looking clean on the outside and dead within. False prophets!
Jesus was born and came into this world to bare witness the truth and showed us the way he is the life, the Pharisees said that if we leave him then the whole world will follow after him. They murdered Jesus out of envy.
Jesus said the the women weeping as he was being led away to be crucified
Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Jesus was a green tree, full of fresh fruits, alive and full of the covering of God. A tree gives natural life through oxygen giving us fresh air. Jesus brought life by the breath of God which is the holy spirit. And wicked men cut him down when he was full of life.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 4:09:09 GMT -5
Why would God have to come in flesh and be crucified to save us? Even worse, being crucified at the hand of Satan? God will never die at the hand of Satan in any way whatsoever. In the old testament, the lamb was sacrificed by Gods people, with a clean cut to the throat and then the blood poured out. Jesus was beaten, ridiculed, stripped, mocked and crucified by men with wicked hearts controlled by Satan. So proud and ignorant that they believed that they were doing the will of God. Even though God told them it was wrong to kill. Jesus even told them that they have the law of Moses, so why are they are trying to kill him. And they still did it. Evil men, doing the works of Satan. There is no way that God was in that. They were doing the works of their father the devil, just as Jesus said. And they were whitewashed sepulchres full of dead men's bones. Dead graves with no life in them. Looking clean on the outside and dead within. False prophets! Jesus was born and came into this world to bare witness the truth and showed us the way he is the life, the Pharisees said that if we leave him then the whole world will follow after him. They murdered Jesus out of envy. Jesus said the the women weeping as he was being led away to be crucified Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? Jesus was a green tree, full of fresh fruits, alive and full of the covering of God. A tree gives natural life through oxygen giving us fresh air. Jesus brought life by the breath of God which is the holy spirit. And wicked men cut him down when he was full of life. You should talk to your leaders and those in your group about what Edward Cooney preached about Calvary. He certainly preached Christ crucified! Paul in writing God's words to those at Corinth had the polar opposite view to what you have indicated: He said: For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God... But we preach Christ crucified - a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles But to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. and Paul in writing to the Roman church had absolutely the opposite view to what you have. He said: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement Through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, Because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished He did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just And the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Very clear and no ambiguity. The message of the cross is the cross Jesus bore, the cross we also have bare and we are saved by the power of the spirit within our hearts. It's a stumbling block to many. Those who think they don't have to bare any cross. Paul also said he was crucified with Christ, Paul wasn't naturally crucified.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 5:20:20 GMT -5
The message of the cross is the cross Jesus bore, the cross we also have bare and we are saved by the power of the spirit within our hearts. It's a stumbling block to many. Those who think they don't have to bare any cross. Paul also said he was crucified with Christ, Paul wasn't naturally crucified. You're ignoring what the verses say and simply stating what you want to believe. www.jesus.org/early-church-history/the-apostle-paul/crucified-with-christ.htmlNo Ross, I'm not stating what I want to believe, I'm stating what Paul said. I'm crucified with Christ. I live yet not I live, but Christ liveth in me. Paul went through the suffering and died the death. He was dead in the flesh but alive in God and Christ lived through him. You and I believe totally differently, and I don't think we'll every agree on this. I think you believe if I'm right that God came in human form and was crucified to save us and every sin even future sins are forgiven and you you're going to heaven. I believe that Christ the son of God came from heaven into this world to bring the truth. He came as an example to show us the way and we have to take up the cross that he bore, deny ourselves and follow him. We must live it out and deny the world, the spirit of God is saving me daily from Satan if I obey God and do his will and I am dying daily to the world being put to death by the spirit. And I must keep my faith and endure to the end to be eternally saved. I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe that we must do the works and that as the spirit works within us, we must listen to his instruction and do the will of God obey him and deny our sins. This is the last post I'll make to discuss this, this is my beliefs, and you have yours. Nothing will change me, because I can feel the power of God working within me and he's changing me into a new person, cleaning my heart. I know i have to bare that cross that Jesus bore, and by doing this God blesses us with the power of the spirit and Christ gives those who do this, the strength to overcome.
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2016 5:52:33 GMT -5
This scripture comes to mind Maryhig...
It matters not whether man calls us "Christian" or not "Christian", because God's spirit testifies with our spirit that we are his children.
If we live according to the flesh we will die.
If we share Christ's sufferings we'll be co-heirs with Jesus our elder brother, the first born of many brethren.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2016 11:14:17 GMT -5
No Ross, I'm not stating what I want to believe, I'm stating what Paul said. I'm crucified with Christ. I live yet not I live, but Christ liveth in me. Paul went through the suffering and died the death. He was dead in the flesh but alive in God and Christ lived through him. You and I believe totally differently, and I don't think we'll every agree on this. I think you believe if I'm right that God came in human form and was crucified to save us and every sin even future sins are forgiven and you you're going to heaven. I believe that Christ the son of God came from heaven into this world to bring the truth. He came as an example to show us the way and we have to take up the cross that he bore, deny ourselves and follow him. We must live it out and deny the world, the spirit of God is saving me daily from Satan if I obey God and do his will and I am dying daily to the world being put to death by the spirit. And I must keep my faith and endure to the end to be eternally saved. I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe that we must do the works and that as the spirit works within us, we must listen to his instruction and do the will of God obey him and deny our sins. This is the last post I'll make to discuss this, this is my beliefs, and you have yours. Nothing will change me, because I can feel the power of God working within me and he's changing me into a new person, cleaning my heart. I know i have to bare that cross that Jesus bore, and by doing this God blesses us with the power of the spirit and Christ gives those who do this, the strength to overcome. Of course nothing will change you because you ignore the central part of Christianity. Christ purchased you on Calvary by giving his life for you on the cross. He paid the price and suffered and died for you. You call that the work of Satan. All I'm saying is study the Scripture because it's a horribly wrong conclusion. Fixit might support you but you won't find another Christian on earth who doesn't believe that Christ suffered and died for us on Calvary and purchased us by shedding His blood on the tree. When we turn to Christ we accept Him and worship Him as our Lord, Saviour and Redeemer. We must accept His sacrifice for us which washes us clean. We are justified by Him and we live for Him, obey Him, deny ourselves in response to what He has done for us. To me the central part to Christianity is the gospel of Jesus and the truth. Please don't twist my words, i never said that Jesus giving his life and suffering was the work of Satan, I said Satan was in the hearts of the wicked men that crucified Jesus. And I never said that Jesus didn't have to go through it, he had to go through whatever Satan did to him and take it and show love in place of wickedness, even having so much love to ask God to forgive them. I believe that we are saved by his life. And Fixit never said he agreed with me about the cross, he brought up the scriptures in Romans 8 regarding the suffering that we too must go through. It says quite clearly in the scriptures that we must deny ourselves and take up our cross to follow Jesus, and Jesus said that those who don't take up their cross are not worthy of him. It's a narrow way, not a broad way. But the suffering is well worth it, because by self denial and letting the spirit do the works within, our hearts become cleaner and we are free, because the spirit is putting to death sin within us. Your whole faith centres around the cross, mine centres around the life. Jesus himself said that he was born and came into the world to be a witness to the truth, and everyone who is of the truth hears his voice. (John 18) And I believe his words. What do you expect me to do, not believe him if that's why he said he came here? Jesus said that those who save their life shall lose it, but those who are willing to lose their lives for his sake shall find it, and that we are rewarded according to our works. Matthew 16 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. That's my beliefs, if you believe that Jesus has done it all for you and you don't have to do anything because your already saved so be it that's what you believe, but I don't have to believe as you do. Also, it doesn't say that in the Bible. It says we we are saved if we endure to the end, and we are rewarded by our works and that we have to deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Jesus.
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2016 14:01:06 GMT -5
I believe many Christians, Maryh/Cooneyites, and 2x2s friends and workers don't or can't understand the Godhead is The Father, Christ/Jesus, and Holy Spirit because they see the word God refers ONLY to the Father.... El/singular God and NOT as Elohim/plural God. That's nonsense, Nathan. El: Mighty one. Elohim: God, gods, object of worship. I'm not going to enter an endless debate, but I'll leave you with one portion of scripture to consider: Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: The Hebrew word used here is El. So when you make Elohim to be a family of gods, you are making yourself a polytheist.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 5, 2016 14:13:01 GMT -5
I worship the living God. Who has never died and never will die. I agree, the only way that God has entered flesh is by his spirit entering our hearts. And Jesus had the whole strength of his spirit because he denied his own will. And lived for God, and he came in the image of God. But he's the son of God, as it says in the Bible not God the son (nowhere in the Bible) and he came and showed us the way for us to follow. Do you not believe that Prince Charles is heir to the throne of England? To do that he has to be the son of the ruling monarch, right? Thus Charles has to be of royal blood, right? So if you bbelieve Jesus is God the Father's Son , then why don't you believe Jesus is of the Divine lineage that the Father is? Doesn't the bible proclaim Jesus as the Father's heir? Since he is the Father's only begotten Son he should be His heir. Though the Father will never die or abdicate His throne, the bible is explicit in that Jesus is sitting on the Father's right hand "on His throne". So since " God" is the name men have given the Father as the Divine ruler of all things, why would we want to refuse to call Jesus, God the Son? It's his by divine birth or begetting, if you wish. Jesus will have all things put under him as on he is the ruler of all things...the bible says. That is the mark or evidence the Father declares His Son, Jesus Christ His heir and the bible says that the Father approved of Jesus, His So while he was still on earth.
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2016 14:24:49 GMT -5
So since " God" is the name men have given the Father as the Divine ruler of all things, why would we want to refuse to call Jesus, God the Son? That's a question you could ask of the folks who wrote the bible. They never referred to Jesus as God the Son.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 5, 2016 14:30:33 GMT -5
Jesus said that whoever received him likewise receives the Father. It seems we can't have one without the other.. So plural uses of God indicates recognition that Jesus is the Father's only begotten Son and thus according to Jesus you accept one you accept the other. Love the Father, worship the Father? You will be loving and worshipping the Father and the Son.
Seems to me folks run backward at worshipping Jesus simply because he was born in an ordinary human way. It's difficult to get in our heads why if he is God the Son why he was humanly born. It all has to do with him being King of kings through King David's bloodline since God had promised David that a ruler would always abide or be found of David's bloodline. Jesus is the fulfillment of that promise as Jesus will never cease to be Kong of kings.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 5, 2016 17:15:55 GMT -5
So since " God" is the name men have given the Father as the Divine ruler of all things, why would we want to refuse to call Jesus, God the Son? That's a question you could ask of the folks who wrote the bible. They never referred to Jesus as God the Son. They never denied him his Divine rights either. That'd be the same. As denying Prince Charles his royal rights which says he is the ruling mmonarch's heir to the throne of England. Though Queen Elizabeth may well outlive her heir in which case her heir becomes Prince Charles firstborn. But as the Father of all which man calls God will never die He is sharing His throne with with His only begotten Son. They both are Divine, they both are "God"... One by everlastingness and the other as His only begotten. The Holy Spirit emanates from them being the spirit of God.
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2016 21:00:50 GMT -5
Jesus said that whoever received him likewise receives the Father. Yes, and in the same way he said bread is his body... Matthew 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” There are lots of things in the bible that are not to be taken literally.
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Post by fred on May 5, 2016 21:30:48 GMT -5
Jesus said that whoever received him likewise receives the Father. Yes, and in the same way he said bread is his body... Matthew 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” There are lots of things in the bible that are not to be taken literally. Agree, but do you think that str's quote is not for literal understanding?
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