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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 16:28:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 17:10:34 GMT -5
yes, it looks like someone has posted a worker speaking it looks like their name is jessi hagen and from the tag that goes along with the video it looks like their complaining about the sermon...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 17:36:49 GMT -5
At 19:00 we hear about the MINISTRY.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:45:36 GMT -5
Take out a few system promoting stuff and I do actually agree with some of his message. Mary and Joseph didn't go to convention or anything like it. And labeling old people, who hate to ask people to bring them to meetings PRIDEFUL seems a bit unkind. There is a hint of promoting the notion that Jesus could have lost his salvation ,if he hadn't done this or that. I hate pride and that includes spiritual pride like the Pharisees or some of my relatives who look down their noses at some who have made bad choices.
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Post by fixit on Oct 2, 2015 21:22:38 GMT -5
It's an interesting exercise to search the words "the ministry" in the Bible.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 21:38:46 GMT -5
It's an interesting exercise to search the words "the ministry" in the Bible. just use "ministry" its in the OT and the NT...
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Post by joanna on Oct 2, 2015 22:37:57 GMT -5
Oh my dog, the miracle here is how those poor women and others can sit still for so long This video prompts horrible memories of psychological and physical angst.
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Post by fixit on Oct 3, 2015 1:52:31 GMT -5
It's an interesting exercise to search the words "the ministry" in the Bible. just use "ministry" its in the OT and the NT... "The ministry" in the Bible is a service, an action thing [verb]. Not an organisation and not an institution [noun].
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 2:48:23 GMT -5
Gee, this seems to me such woeful stuff now. I couldn't help wondering what on earth he was talking about. On and on he goes for 34 monologic minutes seemingly making it up as he goes along. I'm sure there is a message in there somewhere but listening now without 2x2 blinkers it just seems to pass me by. I'm wondering how I spent twenty years sitting through this lark. I guess most people simply drift off somewhere else until they recognise the familiar signs that the sermon is coming to a close. The most amusing thing for me is how he closes the sermon by announcing the time of the next meeting. I remember this well. If you weren't paying attention you could easily miss it. There is no discernible gap between the end of the sermon and the announcement, and no change in tone. "And I was thinking that I'd just like to have a little more of the spirit of Jesus the next meeting is at two o'clock." And everyone breathes a huge sigh of relief. Including the speaker I suspect. Matt10
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Post by blacksheep on Oct 3, 2015 7:25:00 GMT -5
The sight of those ladies' bare necks in the row ahead gave me a flashback to conventions of years gone by. Our conventions were held on dairy farms, and as such, flies were always a nuisance. I would bring a long piece of grass with me into the meeting, and when it got too boring, I would brush the grass lightly across the back of the neck of the lady in front of me. She would eventually swat the back of her neck, and of course I would repeat as often as possible until she finally realized it wasn't flies, and reward me with the scowl. Much to the amusement of the others who were grateful for some comic relief from the tedious sermon. We managed to make our own fun back then.....
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 3, 2015 14:21:06 GMT -5
Oh my dog, the miracle here is how those poor women and others can sit still for so long This video prompts horrible memories of psychological and physical angst. I am not sure what all these emoticons necessarily mean, but please tell me that this is simply an audio recording behind a still picture! (I had to try it on a couple of different devices.) I truly do not understand people who have walked away from this, who want to listen in without authorization, much less make it to 19:00. (For the most part, you couldn't pay me enough!) But I guess there are degrees of walking away.
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Post by Grant on Oct 3, 2015 14:37:06 GMT -5
Have you left Sharon? Did you look at the video?
I only see one emoticon not sure what your, 'all these emoticons mean'?
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 3, 2015 14:40:16 GMT -5
Have you left Sharon? Did you look at the video? Long ago. I tried, but couldn't make it past 2:00, even with multi-tasking, on two different occasions.
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Post by Grant on Oct 3, 2015 14:43:46 GMT -5
To take your words, why would you want to listen if you have left?
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 3, 2015 14:48:31 GMT -5
To take your words, why would you want to listen if you have left? That is the point. I don't. I can understand others revisiting this kind of thing as part of a retrospective in a personal onward journey, like, I think, @matt10 expressed. But to have more of an ongoing engagement with it than that, I don't get it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2015 18:37:19 GMT -5
Oh my dog, the miracle here is how those poor women and others can sit still for so long This video prompts horrible memories of psychological and physical angst. And so much worse in the summer when it was so hot!
I had once skipped an afternoon meeting to attend my friend's wedding. When I think about it now I am not sure where I got the nerve to do that, -leave a convention meeting for a wedding! Never-the-less, I did so because she had been my roommate in nurse's training.
When I got back to the convention grounds it was all abuzz!
Apparently, it had been so hot that afternoon that so many people kept leaving the tent to go to the water barrels that the older worker who was speaking just closed the meeting and dismissed the people in an angry tirade blaming the people for their inattention.
The people were just wondering around like lost puppies, -feeling guilty & not knowing what to do! This worker was really usually one of the kinder workers.
No doubt the heat was getting to him as well!
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Post by joanna on Oct 3, 2015 19:57:47 GMT -5
SharonArnold I did not listen to the preacher and aim not to listen to any who spread religious teachings except when they are in a debate with those intending to promote reason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 2:20:25 GMT -5
just use "ministry" its in the OT and the NT... "The ministry" in the Bible is a service, an action thing [verb]. Not an organisation and not an institution [noun]. and you'er not part of that? did Jesus organise A ministry?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 2:24:08 GMT -5
To take your words, why would you want to listen if you have left? but your friend walker put it there for you to listen to
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 3:35:49 GMT -5
To take your words, why would you want to listen if you have left? I guess there are many reasons. I listened to it mainly out of curiosity. Apart from two funerals, I hadn't hadn't heard a worker preach in twenty years and I was therefore interested to know what I would make of it from my current perspective. I have to confess that I didn't listen to it all though. It was such hard work that on my first attempt I was reduced to making generous use of the fast forward facility. On my second I dozed off swiftly but woke up shortly afterwards to catch the remainder. I suspect this is a common approach adopted when listening to this sort of sermon. The thing that strikes me most is just how poor it is both in terms of presentation and content. There appears to be no particular theme nor any clear message. It seems bereft of anything that would make it even mildly interesting to anyone other than the most strident 2x2 adherent. And it is delivered in such a monotone voice that it fails to inspire at any level. The only time he seems confident in what he's saying is when he's quoting scripture. Most of the time his main aim appears merely to talk to take up the time. So much so that I'm left wondering whether he'd undertaken any preparation whatsoever. Given that convention is the FA Cup Final for workers, the equivalent of the annual political party conference or the Oscars, it seems incredible that he hasn't more in the way of substance. Surely there are real life incidents that happened over the last year that are worth referring to and that have some relevance. Or anecdotes that could make it more interesting. Or even some deep scriptural insight given that preaching is his full time profession. I can't help feeling that what he is doing is merely taking part in a ritual. The ritual of convention. The ritual decrees that there are three meetings a day and four speakers per meeting. The guy (and it is always a guy) who gets the fourth slot has to speak for 30 to 40 minutes, or whatever is required to comply with the two hour meeting schedule. It doesn't really matter what he says so long as he quotes from scripture, says nothing controversial and speaks for the allocated number of minutes. His audience is going to be there anyway. It's not that people have to be persuaded to attend by the quality of the preaching. Or that they can just up and leave anytime. They're as much bound by the ritual as he is. And they're not even obliged to listen. I recall the variety of techniques used to get through these long meetings ..... young mothers tending to their children, adolescents busy scribbling, young people quietly munching and elderly people sleeping. The 2x2 church is many things but most of all it is a ritual. In much the same way that Catholicism is a ritual. A ritual in which, despite his mediocrity, this preacher played his part fittingly. Matt10
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Post by bluejay on Oct 4, 2015 14:08:33 GMT -5
When I first saw this post I was really shocked. If the workers are against having their notes get in to the "wrong" hands, they would be having fits about this. Then I wondered how on earth they could stop this type of thing from happening. Frisk everyone at the door? Confiscate cell phones?
Anyhow, I too was curious enough to listen. Not to find fault, but to really listen with my new understanding and faith. But I just couldn't follow the sermon. I tried twice, but only made it about 4 minutes in. I know that the workers aren't trained in public speaking, and I appreciate the fact that anyone can offer for the work. He may very well have encouraging thoughts and understandings to pass along to his listeners, but the delivery is just so .... bland? I can remember from my professing days how exciting it was when a dynamic speaker was on the roster at convention. Or - even better - when they were in your field. They captured your attention, and brought their "material" to life. Would workers today be encouraged to take public speaking courses?
In the churches I attend now, someone like this speaker would very likely have a place in a different type of role. Believers are encouraged to find their unique spiritual gift, and put it to use in the body of believers. Some are preachers, some are teachers, some are gifted in administrative roles, others are good at working with the children. Others are gifted musically. That was a premise that I don't remember hearing in meetings - "spiritual gifts". It totally makes sense, and I can see first hand how it all works together to best present the message of God's grace to everyone.
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 4, 2015 14:57:56 GMT -5
~~ I read Dale Carnegie book about how to be a good public speaker before I went in the work and it helped me a lot when I was in the work. My first two older companions taught me how to preach the gospel, and what is your theme and purpose of the message? so the listeners could follow and understand who Jesus is. Many of workers do not have companions who teaches them how to be preachers of the gospel, it shows in some of the workers boring, going nowhere message sermons. Thanks, God they have other gifts such as pastoring the churches, feeding the lambs and sheep with their kind spirits.
NOT all workers have the gift as preachers of the gospel, some do and some don't. Some workers are good teachers to their companions, but many learn on their own. I know a few of the workers who are good preachers/speakers but not good as pastors in relating or communication with the friends in the field. Each worker has their own special gifts from God, NOT all have the same gifts, some have more gifts than others. Good to have both good and bad companions. We learn to appreciate the good ones, and learn NOT to follow the bad ones. The bad ones help us to have understanding and compassionate the unfortunate who face the similar experiences.Nathan, this is why I like you.
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Post by Jason Storebo on Oct 4, 2015 16:38:42 GMT -5
Others said it for me regarding his droning style, as well as the extreme vagueness of whatever it was that he was trying to get across. Maybe too much Nyquil the night before, or it is possible that his indeed humble style is his way of setting an outward example of the demeanor that the congregation should display. Probably a very nice person in person: soft spoken, humble, never a problem for anyone. Who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 19:16:07 GMT -5
JS, long time no see, bro! I have heard some of the workers lack enthusiasm in their preaching and it is hard to ensure in a hot shed. I always enjoyed hearing Leslie White, Perry Pearson, Gaylen Van Loon, Luther Raine, Ruth Henderson, Jeff Thayer, Richard Wulf, Carson Cowan etc.. as far as their presentation skills were concerned. A few that bore me to tears: Forrest McPherson, Glenn Gasser, Ralph Sines (and he was a good old man and not into power overseer politics), Charles Middleswarth, John Culver, Carl Hamilton (good guy however), Raymond Blubaugh, Robert Mccorkell, Taylor Wood (very mediocre speaker given the power he had in eastern US), Thomas Murray Keene, etc. Why put your audience through 35-45 minutes of agony?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 1:28:44 GMT -5
JS, long time no see, bro! I have heard some of the workers lack enthusiasm in their preaching and it is hard to ensure in a hot shed. I always enjoyed hearing Leslie White, Perry Pearson, Gaylen Van Loon, Luther Raine, Ruth Henderson, Jeff Thayer, Richard Wulf, Carson Cowan etc.. as far as their presentation skills were concerned. A few that bore me to tears: Forrest McPherson, Glenn Gasser, Ralph Sines (and he was a good old man and not into power overseer politics), Charles Middleswarth, John Culver, Carl Hamilton (good guy however), Raymond Blubaugh, Robert Mccorkell, Taylor Wood (very mediocre speaker given the power he had in eastern US), Thomas Murray Keene, etc. Why put your audience through 35-45 minutes of agony? if you actually listen to the message you don't notice the less eloquent speaker
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 7, 2015 1:46:39 GMT -5
just use "ministry" its in the OT and the NT... "The ministry" in the Bible is a service, an action thing [verb]. Not an organisation and not an institution [noun]. So what was the noun used for the ministry in the Bible?
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Post by fixit on Oct 7, 2015 3:57:35 GMT -5
"The ministry" in the Bible is a service, an action thing [verb]. Not an organisation and not an institution [noun]. So what was the noun used for the ministry in the Bible? I'm not sure what you're asking.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 7, 2015 19:47:38 GMT -5
So what was the noun used for the ministry in the Bible? I'm not sure what you're asking. Not to worry, wally.
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