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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 16:01:00 GMT -5
Today there is such a shortage that they probably relax the standards a bit. But in the 1970s and 80s, the primary reason to be denied a meeting in the home was a TV! TVs meant your home wasn't consecrated. Remarried folks couldn't have a meeting either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 17:56:31 GMT -5
Quote " TVs meant your home wasn't consecrated."
In 1952, the US House of Representatives held hearings on the impact of television violence and concluded that the "television broadcast industry was a perpetrator and a deliverer of violence."
1952 TV violence was pretty tame then, wasn't it?
From about 2005 to 2015 TV violence has doubled. The average 18 year old has witnessed 40,000 murders and 200,000 acts of violence.
A similar thing has taken place with sex, with its attendant impact upon children in particular.
But even if you removed every last bit of sex and violence from TV you are still left with the outright celebration of human nature, including pride, hate, aggression, vanity, hero worship, jealousy, narcissism, nihilism, being better than someone else etc..
(Of course, the impact of this movie culture on church attendance began to be felt in the cinemas during the 1920's.)
Walker, can you tell me how TV could EVER "consecrate" a household?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 29, 2015 18:01:47 GMT -5
Quote " TVs meant your home wasn't consecrated." In 1952, the US House of Representatives held hearings on the impact of television violence and concluded that the "television broadcast industry was a perpetrator and a deliverer of violence."
1952 TV violence was pretty tame then, wasn't it?
From about 2005 to 2015 TV violence has doubled. The average 18 year old has witnessed 40,000 murders and 200,000 acts of violence.
A similar thing has taken place with sex, with its attendant impact upon children in particular.
But even if you removed every last bit of sex and violence from TV you are still left with the outright celebration of human nature, including pride, hate, aggression, vanity, hero worship, jealousy, narcissism, nihilism, being better than someone else etc..
(Of course, the impact of this movie culture on church attendance began to be felt in the cinemas during the 1920's.)
Walker, can you tell me how TV could EVER "consecrate" a household?
I didn't understand that Walker believed that. He was wanting to know other reasons why workers would not put a meeting in a home.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 18:17:18 GMT -5
Maybe I just notice things in text that others don't. But yes, Walker often ridicules our attitude towards television. Quite openly in fact.
Cineman/TV had two majorly effects upon church attendance. 1 - secular influence 2 - distraction.
Just wait - next year will see the beginning of true virtual reality culture, complete with haptic feedback (touch.) It will take these influences to a whole new level.
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Post by Greg on Jun 29, 2015 19:10:06 GMT -5
Maybe I just notice things in text that others don't. But yes, Walker often ridicules our attitude towards television. Quite openly in fact.
Cineman/TV had two majorly effects upon church attendance. 1 - secular influence 2 - distraction.
Just wait - next year will see the beginning of true virtual reality culture, complete with haptic feedback (touch.) It will take these influences to a whole new level. Will that be only in Australia or will the USA and Canada get in on it, too?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 29, 2015 21:25:52 GMT -5
Maybe I just notice things in text that others don't. But yes, Walker often ridicules our attitude towards television. Quite openly in fact.
Cineman/TV had two majorly effects upon church attendance. 1 - secular influence 2 - distraction.
Just wait - next year will see the beginning of true virtual reality culture, complete with haptic feedback (touch.) It will take these influences to a whole new level. You're beginning to make me think you're looking for scoffers. What Walker said was absolutely undeniably true -- that doesn't make saying it sarcasm.
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Post by withlove on Jun 29, 2015 22:27:53 GMT -5
I think TV is a dangerous thing that does affect our thinking, but I think it can be used carefully. I would appreciate even just having the screen for movies (also picked selectively).
Bert is right IMO about how the entertainment industry (among others) eats away at society's morality. There has always been immorality, or vanity or idolatry and so on, but there are phases of better and worse eras, of times when immoral acts are kept hidden and times when they are publicly prevalent. In this information/communication era, we are inundated by messages both even in our homes. It is harder to escape than in many other time periods, and therefore, more effective at changing/shaping our opinions, beginning in childhood.
So I fully understand the concern about TVs in homes. But. Responsible adults should not be judged or restricted by other people from religious opportunities because they have one. Just like they should not be found at fault if they have alcohol or radios, and they shouldn't feel the need to hide it. People may assume that the TV/radio is always on, and playing the worst. Or that the little bar set-up is for the owner's bad habit. Meanwhile, the owner could be practicing the most considered restraint. This could be true for friends or outsiders. And there are plenty of outsiders who are that way.
I actually think it's healthy to have these non-vices, and important to not hide them if so. It would be good for others to see the honesty along with the moderation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 8:20:10 GMT -5
from VOTISALIVE: August 12, 1999 Thirty years ago the worker, Willie Bryant, decided that there would be a meeting in my home, and he wanted to see me about it. Before he and his young companion arrived I was wondering what the discussion would be like and what questions they would ask to check my qualifications. Bill asked only three questions: What do you think of TV, do you watch TV and would you ever have a TV. He said that since my wife had long hair, wore her dresses long, and "looked Godly", and since we did not have or want a TV, meetings would start there the following week. I was amazed at the superficiality. Not one thought about spirituality, doctrine, harmony in the home, honesty in business dealings, etc. Strictly the "outside of the pot". I came to realize that was what mattered most in the system! Leigh Townsend, Quebec City, Canada August 19, 1999
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Post by learning on Jun 30, 2015 8:30:54 GMT -5
I think TV is a dangerous thing that does affect our thinking, but I think it can be used carefully. I would appreciate even just having the screen for movies (also picked selectively). Bert is right IMO about how the entertainment industry (among others) eats away at society's morality. There has always been immorality, or vanity or idolatry and so on, but there are phases of better and worse eras, of times when immoral acts are kept hidden and times when they are publicly prevalent. In this information/communication era, we are inundated by messages both even in our homes. It is harder to escape than in many other time periods, and therefore, more effective at changing/shaping our opinions, beginning in childhood. So I fully understand the concern about TVs in homes. But. Responsible adults should not be judged or restricted by other people from religious opportunities because they have one. Just like they should not be found at fault if they have alcohol or radios, and they shouldn't feel the need to hide it. People may assume that the TV/radio is always on, and playing the worst. Or that the little bar set-up is for the owner's bad habit. Meanwhile, the owner could be practicing the most considered restraint. This could be true for friends or outsiders. And there are plenty of outsiders who are that way. I actually think it's healthy to have these non-vices, and important to not hide them if so. It would be good for others to see the honesty along with the moderation. withlove, I appreciate, agree with and live out what you say here in my home (which does fit the context of the original post). I appreciate you putting into words what I have had a hard time expressing in words myself. If I can ask, are you a 'member' of this fellowship? My feeling is that a thoughtful and spirit-guided GenY and forward may also recognize and practice this in greater percentages moving forward. One could even contend that this is necessary so that 'our' youth don't move away from the fellowship due to 'our' current and relatively immoderate position on matters like this. But at present and in my own home I concur with this sentiment for me and for my family.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 8:40:44 GMT -5
Today meeting tend to be pasted from one generation to another with no regard to the spiritually of the owner of the house. That is what I have witnessed in those that are my age in the northeast. If you have a large house with the right amenities you can have meeting. Much different then in years past.
Those things are contrary to what the bible says about an elder and his wife.
I have been in 13 different Sunday meeting in my life, in 5 different states in 3 different parts of this country. The last meeting was by far the strangest in the attitude of the elder and his wife. Meeting to them was a very casual and an annoyance to their lives. I was raised by and elder who took that part of his life very seriously. So did my mother as an elders wife.
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Post by withlove on Jun 30, 2015 9:57:48 GMT -5
I think TV is a dangerous thing that does affect our thinking, but I think it can be used carefully. I would appreciate even just having the screen for movies (also picked selectively). Bert is right IMO about how the entertainment industry (among others) eats away at society's morality. There has always been immorality, or vanity or idolatry and so on, but there are phases of better and worse eras, of times when immoral acts are kept hidden and times when they are publicly prevalent. In this information/communication era, we are inundated by messages both even in our homes. It is harder to escape than in many other time periods, and therefore, more effective at changing/shaping our opinions, beginning in childhood. So I fully understand the concern about TVs in homes. But. Responsible adults should not be judged or restricted by other people from religious opportunities because they have one. Just like they should not be found at fault if they have alcohol or radios, and they shouldn't feel the need to hide it. People may assume that the TV/radio is always on, and playing the worst. Or that the little bar set-up is for the owner's bad habit. Meanwhile, the owner could be practicing the most considered restraint. This could be true for friends or outsiders. And there are plenty of outsiders who are that way. I actually think it's healthy to have these non-vices, and important to not hide them if so. It would be good for others to see the honesty along with the moderation. withlove, I appreciate, agree with and live out what you say here in my home (which does fit the context of the original post). I appreciate you putting into words what I have had a hard time expressing in words myself. If I can ask, are you a 'member' of this fellowship? My feeling is that a thoughtful and spirit-guided GenY and forward may also recognize and practice this in greater percentages moving forward. One could even contend that this is necessary so that 'our' youth don't move away from the fellowship due to 'our' current and relatively immoderate position on matters like this. But at present and in my own home I concur with this sentiment for me and for my family. Learning, I like your name and your position on the subject. Do you mean that you have a meeting in your home? I'm not a member anymore. Nice points about GenY. I also think about outsiders who are introduced to the church. If they have experienced the spirit in other churches that aren't so restrictive, they won't buy into the culture. It wouldn't be that someone just badly wants/needs a tv, but that they see that there is too much conformity to unnecessary man-made rules.
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Post by learning on Jun 30, 2015 11:18:12 GMT -5
withlove, I appreciate, agree with and live out what you say here in my home (which does fit the context of the original post). I appreciate you putting into words what I have had a hard time expressing in words myself. If I can ask, are you a 'member' of this fellowship? My feeling is that a thoughtful and spirit-guided GenY and forward may also recognize and practice this in greater percentages moving forward. One could even contend that this is necessary so that 'our' youth don't move away from the fellowship due to 'our' current and relatively immoderate position on matters like this. But at present and in my own home I concur with this sentiment for me and for my family. Learning, I like your name and your position on the subject. Do you mean that you have a meeting in your home? I'm not a member anymore. Nice points about GenY. I also think about outsiders who are introduced to the church. If they have experienced the spirit in other churches that aren't so restrictive, they won't buy into the culture. It wouldn't be that someone just badly wants/needs a tv, but that they see that there is too much conformity to unnecessary man-made rules. Yes, there is a meeting in my home. For various reasons, the younger generation and 'outsiders' alike have a keen ability to sniff out dogma and in my observations GenY seems to have the courage to sideline dogmatic beliefs in their life's experience for what they perceive to be genuine beliefs. I am partially speaking for myself here as one who is on the outskirts of GenY. But I feel like that with respect to this fellowship's position on these contemporary issues that some people simply need a proprietary 'system' to maintain a level of stability in their life that would enable them to consider and benefit from spiritual topics. Do I believe this is necessary? No, not for me. As an example it is a complex issue for someone in their 60's to unravel what are likely generational lifestyles instilled in them by previous generations without upsetting their apple cart, so to speak. So I don't want to condemn them for it or to pull them towards a position that makes them uncomfortable in their own life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 13:20:22 GMT -5
So I don't them to condemn weak saints for it or to pull them towards a position that makes them uncomfortable in their life>last sentence revised.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 30, 2015 15:33:21 GMT -5
from VOTISALIVE: August 12, 1999 Thirty years ago the worker, Willie Bryant, decided that there would be a meeting in my home, and he wanted to see me about it. Before he and his young companion arrived I was wondering what the discussion would be like and what questions they would ask to check my qualifications. Bill asked only three questions: What do you think of TV, do you watch TV and would you ever have a TV. He said that since my wife had long hair, wore her dresses long, and "looked Godly", and since we did not have or want a TV, meetings would start there the following week. I was amazed at the superficiality. Not one thought about spirituality, doctrine, harmony in the home, honesty in business dealings, etc. Strictly the "outside of the pot". I came to realize that was what mattered most in the system! Leigh Townsend, Quebec City, Canada August 19, 1999 I knew Leigh Townsend personally, and I do not criticize him for anything. However: (1) How does one measure the level of spirituality of an individual? Maybe it is how creative he can be with his glossolalia, or the wideness of his range of holy speak. (2) How does one examine an individual's doctrine? Or maybe the convention notes are intended for study guides for elder candidates. (3) How does one determine the harmony in someone else's home. Leigh's wife divorced him. (4) How does one investigate another's honesty in business? You need a private investigator for, and they are expensive. I can hear it now: "Now, before we make you the elder of the meeting, we need to know if you molest children."
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Post by slowtosee on Jun 30, 2015 18:27:48 GMT -5
I suppose many factors come into play with varying circumstances. I was an "outsider ' who professed, and there was a need for an "open" home for meetings. The subject was talked about with the local lady workers, and my wife and myself suggested others were more "qualified. We were at a usa convention when jack price, the overseer approached us and asked who we thought, the meeting should go to. We again suggested "others", but after a few weeks we were notified the meeting would be at our house, which it was for many many years. We took the responsibility very serious, and I was somewhat surprised at the "murmuring" about why we should not have been chosen to have the meeting, with a recurring "echo l about my wife having been a single mom when we married. I really didn't understand the "system" all that well , and realized that it was a "coveted" position or place of honor, by some to have it . We had lots of "priveleges" of hosting many friends and worker s, as convention also was close by. There were some negatives but lots of positives too. The opposite "procedure " happened when the meeting was taken out of our home, and was used as a "lever" or pressure point, to "conform", into opposition of our convictions. I don't regret the experience of having meetings, but wouldn't want to tackle that role again. It encourages me to have some of the people who were in our meeting to remain in contact , and value the relationship highly. In our last meeting, and they knew we were being pushed out,I told them I would always feel a responsibility or care for them and I would pray for them , which is how it remains. Hmmmmmmm. I think I'm way off topic but anyhow..... oh.... the elder before me also does not attend meetings, but he is still an 'elder" in his character and heart, and VERY much appreciated by myself and others. No danger, I guess, of either one of us ever having meeting in our home again though, as the TV is openly displayed, I know of situations where there is a meeting in the home with a TV, but it is hidden, to man, anyhow. Cheers. Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 8:26:56 GMT -5
What do you think of TV, do you watch TV and would you ever have a TV. He said that since my wife had long hair, wore her dresses long, and "looked Godly", and since we did not have or want a TV, meetings would start there the following week *U****** So much focus on the exterior!
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