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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2015 1:04:28 GMT -5
And he doesn't know what he's talking about! Well, I suppose that is a matter of opinion.
He certainly has a large number of people who agrees with him.
In fact as he says an "extremely large segment of the human population that relies heavily on logic, reason, and rationalism. "
Ok, that's great for them, but I rely in my father in heaven!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 1:14:50 GMT -5
Well, I suppose that is a matter of opinion.
He certainly has a large number of people who agrees with him.
In fact as he says an "extremely large segment of the human population that relies heavily on logic, reason, and rationalism. "
Ok, that's great for them, but I rely in my father in heaven! I rely on logic, reason, and rationalism.
I am a retired nurse and I never saw any "father in heaven" heal a sick child.
The child was healed by the use of the logical creation of antibiotics.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 1:28:54 GMT -5
I believe it is about the prophecy of Jesus. Its just the messiah didn't come as the Jewish leaders expected him too! They expected him to come as a leader in their religion. And to free them from their enemies (I.e the Romans). But he came as a suffering servant of the people, giving everyone a chance including the gentiles. Suffering and denying Satan in his flesh, taking all that people and authorities threw at him and showed them love. Showing them all how to remove their enemies from within their hearts through self denial. Thus separating them from Satan! This is how Jesus suffered, and came to save the Jews from their enemies. Gods ways are different to man's ways! His mind is different to ours. What we expect to happen may not be the way God has planned it! Jesus is the messiah, he is the son of God! Messiah definition the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. He is the deliverer, and if we follow him, he will deliver all of us, out of the hand of Satan, and into the hand of God! By helping us overcome Satan in our hearts by circumcision of the heart! Because those circumsised of the heart are the Jewish nation!That "Gods ways are different to man's ways! His mind is different to ours." That statement: "Gods ways are different to man's ways! His mind is different to ours." is usually given by Christians when all other "reasons" fail. It seems to be their last resort.
However, it isn't any reason at all. Simply Illogical By Ben Love ~ "The first and most basic reality we must observe is that Christianity simply doesn’t make any sense. It is, to put it bluntly, absolutely illogical.
This is in fact so obvious that it really shouldn’t even need to be stated. The Christian, however, may disagree.
But if by some chance he does agrees that his religion is in fact illogical, then he will also assert that God intended it to be so.
He will likely smile and say something like this: “Yes, that’s true. It doesn’t make sense to man’s wisdom. But man’s wisdom is foolishness to God, and the wisdom of God is foolishness to man.”
However, we can recognize this for what it is: purposefully ambiguous jargon designed to allow the Christian to “be right” even when he is proven wrong.
In any case, even if we were to concede that an Omni-Creator-Being (or God) would orient his revealed religion in such a way, we would also have to accept that this God intentionally oriented this religion to exclude most of his creations from embracing it.
After all, there is an extremely large segment of the human population that relies heavily on logic, reason, and rationalism.
For a God to deliberately establish a “path” that forces humans to abandon logic, reason, and rationalism is to make it extremely difficult for many if not most of his creations to reach him, a counterproductive and therefore decidedly unwise move on his part if he really does want everyone to be saved.
Either way, if the Christian does indeed answer by asserting that “God’s wisdom is foolishness to man,” he is still acknowledging the main point: Christianity is illogical.
To assume that “God wants it to be that way” is circular reasoning. In fact, it’s not even circular reasoning. It’s doublespeak.
What the Christian is actually saying is this: “God’s ways don’t make any sense because the ways of God don‘t make sense.” In other words, the Christian is willing to accept that the very religion to which he is adhering is illogical because God, whom he wouldn’t believe in without the theology of that same religion, is also illogical. The intelligent human ought to instantly see the problem here. exchristian.net.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Psalm 94:11 The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 1 Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. God/Christanity can never be logical to man, man with the limits of his mind cannot understand the spirit of God unless God reveal it to him
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 1:29:59 GMT -5
Ok, that's great for them, but I rely in my father in heaven! I rely on logic, reason, and rationalism.
I am a retired nurse and I never saw any "father in heaven" heal a sick child.
The child was healed by the use of the logical creation of antibiotics.
so because you state these things He is not there?
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2015 1:30:03 GMT -5
Ok, that's great for them, but I rely in my father in heaven! I rely on logic, reason, and rationalism.
I am a retired nurse and I never saw any "father in heaven" heal a sick child.
The child was healed by the use of the logical creation of antibiotics.
And that's your choice, we have freewill! But I have faith in God! Disease is in this world, brought by Satan. God gives man the cures, to help us! We don't know why were here yet! Were being tested for a reason. One day we'll find out why! I just know in my heart that I have to listen to my conscience. And believe and follow Jesus and I have to keep my faith until the end of my life! And with God's help through Christ I can do this. If I keep Christ in my heart and keep doing Gods will and listening to the holy spirit guiding me! I know God is there. I have no doubt whatsoever, and I rely on him!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 5:33:36 GMT -5
I rely on logic, reason, and rationalism.
I am a retired nurse and I never saw any "father in heaven" heal a sick child.
The child was healed by the use of the logical creation of antibiotics.
And that's your choice, we have freewill! But I have faith in God! Disease is in this world, brought by Satan. God gives man the cures, to help us! We don't know why were here yet! Were being tested for a reason. One day we'll find out why! I just know in my heart that I have to listen to my conscience. And believe and follow Jesus and I have to keep my faith until the end of my life! And with God's help through Christ I can do this. If I keep Christ in my heart and keep doing Gods will and listening to the holy spirit guiding me! I know God is there. I have no doubt whatsoever, and I rely on him! Actually it isn't a choice.
When a person doesn't see any evidence for something, -such as evidence of a paranormal or supernatural entity , -there really isn't any choice about it.
You can't very well choose to believe or not to believe something when it isn't even there.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 5:36:09 GMT -5
I rely on logic, reason, and rationalism.
I am a retired nurse and I never saw any "father in heaven" heal a sick child.
The child was healed by the use of the logical creation of antibiotics.
so because you state these things He is not there? No, -not because I state something, -but because there is no evidence that "he" is there.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 5:38:08 GMT -5
That statement: "Gods ways are different to man's ways! His mind is different to ours." is usually given by Christians when all other "reasons" fail. It seems to be their last resort.
However, it isn't any reason at all. Simply Illogical By Ben Love ~ "The first and most basic reality we must observe is that Christianity simply doesn’t make any sense. It is, to put it bluntly, absolutely illogical.
This is in fact so obvious that it really shouldn’t even need to be stated. The Christian, however, may disagree.
But if by some chance he does agrees that his religion is in fact illogical, then he will also assert that God intended it to be so.
He will likely smile and say something like this: “Yes, that’s true. It doesn’t make sense to man’s wisdom. But man’s wisdom is foolishness to God, and the wisdom of God is foolishness to man.”
However, we can recognize this for what it is: purposefully ambiguous jargon designed to allow the Christian to “be right” even when he is proven wrong.
In any case, even if we were to concede that an Omni-Creator-Being (or God) would orient his revealed religion in such a way, we would also have to accept that this God intentionally oriented this religion to exclude most of his creations from embracing it.
After all, there is an extremely large segment of the human population that relies heavily on logic, reason, and rationalism.
For a God to deliberately establish a “path” that forces humans to abandon logic, reason, and rationalism is to make it extremely difficult for many if not most of his creations to reach him, a counterproductive and therefore decidedly unwise move on his part if he really does want everyone to be saved.
Either way, if the Christian does indeed answer by asserting that “God’s wisdom is foolishness to man,” he is still acknowledging the main point: Christianity is illogical.
To assume that “God wants it to be that way” is circular reasoning. In fact, it’s not even circular reasoning. It’s doublespeak.
What the Christian is actually saying is this: “God’s ways don’t make any sense because the ways of God don‘t make sense.” In other words, the Christian is willing to accept that the very religion to which he is adhering is illogical because God, whom he wouldn’t believe in without the theology of that same religion, is also illogical. The intelligent human ought to instantly see the problem here. exchristian.net.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Psalm 94:11 The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 1 Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. God/Christanity can never be logical to man, man with the limits of his mind cannot understand the spirit of God unless God reveal it to him Excellent example of "circular reasoning, virgo!"
definition: a use of reason in which the premises depends on or is equivalent to the conclusion, a method of false logic by which "this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this,"
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 5:42:50 GMT -5
so because you state these things He is not there? No, -not because I state something, -but because there is no evidence that "he" is there.Ah, but " faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" If we could see Him with our human eyes, we wouldn't need faith.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 5:45:16 GMT -5
We are told in the bible why we need faith. It's because faith can do a work our lives. A God who lives and walks amongst us does no work in our lives, and we remain with our human, unregenerate natures.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 5:46:34 GMT -5
No, -not because I state something, -but because there is no evidence that "he" is there. Ah, but " faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" If we could see Him with our human eyes, we wouldn't need faith. Exactly!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 5:52:20 GMT -5
We are told in the bible why we need faith. It's because faith can do a work our lives. A God who lives and walks amongst us doe no work in our lives, and we remain with our human, unregenerate natures. How many times have I read here & heard that when people make mistakes, "well, we, they, friends, workers, everyone, is "JUST" human after all?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 6:17:57 GMT -5
And it's been said that in allowing God to deal with us that things can come out in our lives that we need to deal with. This happened many times in the bible - just look at David's life. David was brought very low through some of these episodes, but he was able to deal with these things. His son Solomon never seems to have had the same experiences - and ultimately, having had his own way for most of his life, he failed.
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Post by Lee on May 19, 2015 7:26:59 GMT -5
Not in my experience. I would strongly oppose a spouse being forbidden from opening the door to his/her loved one or seeing the children. That is definitely cult-like behaviour. And it's something that so called orthodox Christians sometimes do to spouses who declare they are atheists. If this video is supposed to be an example of cult like behavior then they too are guilty of this behavior with atheist spouses. If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands.
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Post by Lee on May 19, 2015 7:34:41 GMT -5
Sociological attempts to define cults always result in pissing contests and relativism. Precisely because mankind is not a standard unto himself, any serious attempt to arrive at what is normal will be theologically based.
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Post by snow on May 19, 2015 14:29:04 GMT -5
No, -not because I state something, -but because there is no evidence that "he" is there. Ah, but " faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" If we could see Him with our human eyes, we wouldn't need faith. So why can't we see him with our eyes? Never could figure out why an all powerful being that can create everything we see cannot do something as simple as show himself to us. I have always failed at faith so it would be useful for those of us that aren't quite as good at it as others.
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Post by snow on May 19, 2015 14:31:47 GMT -5
And it's something that so called orthodox Christians sometimes do to spouses who declare they are atheists. If this video is supposed to be an example of cult like behavior then they too are guilty of this behavior with atheist spouses. If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands. Exactly, and I'm sure you think you're justified in your intolerance too.
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Post by Lee on May 19, 2015 15:11:52 GMT -5
Intolerance minus intolerance equals zero and intolerance divided by zero is undefined. Atheists are acidic to life itself.
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Post by snow on May 19, 2015 17:17:19 GMT -5
Intolerance minus intolerance equals zero and intolerance divided by zero is undefined. Atheists are acidic to life itself. As per usual, I don't know what the heck you're trying to say. I guess that's a good thing because I do get the feeling it wasn't good. Acidic is just as necessary for life and tolerance is necessary for a humane society.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 17:35:54 GMT -5
Ah, but " faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" If we could see Him with our human eyes, we wouldn't need faith. So why can't we see him with our eyes? Never could figure out why an all powerful being that can create everything we see cannot do something as simple as show himself to us. I have always failed at faith so it would be useful for those of us that aren't quite as good at it as others. because if you could see Him with your eyes you would be completely evaporated, His brilliance is such , it is only by faith you will see Him
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 17:42:02 GMT -5
Intolerance minus intolerance equals zero and intolerance divided by zero is undefined. Atheists are acidic to life itself. 1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 1 Corinthians 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
just some verses to think on
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Post by snow on May 19, 2015 18:02:35 GMT -5
So why can't we see him with our eyes? Never could figure out why an all powerful being that can create everything we see cannot do something as simple as show himself to us. I have always failed at faith so it would be useful for those of us that aren't quite as good at it as others. because if you could see Him with your eyes you would be completely evaporated, His brilliance is such , it is only by faith you will see Him Oh come on, surely he could shield me enough to preserve me if he wanted to. He is all powerful after all. All things are possible with God, right? Doesn't anyone ever look at these pate answers and really wonder about them? Why is having a strong faith deemed to be a wonderful trait to have, never mind necessary?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 18:24:41 GMT -5
because if you could see Him with your eyes you would be completely evaporated, His brilliance is such , it is only by faith you will see Him Oh come on, surely he could shield me enough to preserve me if he wanted to. He is all powerful after all. All things are possible with God, right? Doesn't anyone ever look at these pate answers and really wonder about them? Why is having a strong faith deemed to be a wonderful trait to have, never mind necessary? so you want Him to change to suit you? this is what most churches have done
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Post by snow on May 19, 2015 18:59:59 GMT -5
Oh come on, surely he could shield me enough to preserve me if he wanted to. He is all powerful after all. All things are possible with God, right? Doesn't anyone ever look at these pate answers and really wonder about them? Why is having a strong faith deemed to be a wonderful trait to have, never mind necessary? so you want Him to change to suit you? this is what most churches have done Sure why not? Doesn't he know what each individual requires in order to know him and understand? If he truly wants to be known and have everyone in heaven with him, you would think he would do what was necessary to accomplish that. After all, he is the all knowing, perfect one and I'm just the inconsequential, stupid creation. If some people are good at faith, great, not everyone is. Do we treat all the people on earth the same or do we adjust how we relate to different age groups? I say the reason he has never been seen by anyone is because he doesn't exist period. I don't think that's an unreasonable conclusion. I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to do something to alter that conclusion if he really cares about me.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 19:26:07 GMT -5
And it's been said that in allowing God to deal with us that things can come out in our lives that we need to deal with.
This happened many times in the bible - just look at David's life. David was brought very low through some of these episodes, but he was able to deal with these things. His son Solomon never seems to have had the same experiences - and ultimately, having had his own way for most of his life, he failed. Good grief, Bert!
Can't you ever make a post using a bono fide reason that ISN'T a circular argument?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 19:43:28 GMT -5
And it's something that so called orthodox Christians sometimes do to spouses who declare they are atheists. If this video is supposed to be an example of cult like behavior then they too are guilty of this behavior with atheist spouses. If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands. Oh, I can surely believe that! I just can't imagine you being the kind of husband that my husband was!
He knew that each of us were autonomous beings with the right as such to have our own beliefs!
He knew that those beliefs had nothing to do with our love for one another. In fact, maybe it was because of our love for one another that allowed us to treat one another in such a manner.
We each supported one another. He was considerate of the people I wanted to see & places that I wanted to go.
I in return, knew how important the fellowship was to him and did what I could to help him get the house ready for the meeting & see that he was able to get to meetings & conventions.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 19:56:26 GMT -5
Intolerance minus intolerance equals ze Is "bashing Atheists" your favorite avocation, lee?
Maybe you should take up another hobby, -something more relaxing, -something easier on you blood pressure like collecting stamps.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2015 21:09:17 GMT -5
No, -not because I state something, -but because there is no evidence that "he" is there. Ah, but " faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" If we could see Him with our human eyes, we wouldn't need faith. Absolutely true!But then, -neither do I see Ganesha, Shiva, Hanuman, Durga, or Lakshmi with my Human eyes.
I also don't see any "evidence" that they exist!
So, I don't have any faith that they really do exist.
Do you think that if you were born in India into a family that believed in the Hindu religion that you would have "faith" that they existed even though you couldn't see them with your Human eyes?
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