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Post by Greg on May 9, 2015 8:38:49 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . how does Ross's feelings on the Anglican church connect with Leslie's email?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 8:46:04 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . how does Ross's feelings on the Anglican church connect with Leslie's email? Hmmm... I think only Ross can answer that one.
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Post by Greg on May 9, 2015 8:56:44 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . how does Ross's feelings on the Anglican church connect with Leslie's email? Hmmm... I think only Ross can answer that one. Could be. Sorry I was not clear. I meant in this thread, how they are connected. Ross might not know. Quite a few pages and many posts to go over and discover the connection.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 9, 2015 9:00:50 GMT -5
Hmmm... I think only Ross can answer that one. Could be. Sorry I was not clear. I meant in this thread, how they are connected. Ross might not know. Quite a few pages and many posts to go over and discover the connection. I had read Scott's post yesterday and nothing more. Today I signed on and read the last post and wondered the same thing: how in the world did the Anglican church pop into discussion? I found my answer scrolling back a page, but I was amused that we had not yet managed to go 'trinity' on this thread
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Post by mdm on May 9, 2015 10:00:52 GMT -5
Ross Bowden's post on this thread once again reveals what appears to be almost an obsession he has with the church he left 20 years ago. His post contains his litany against the workers in his home state NSW in Australia.... on a thread about Leslie White in the United States. My observation is that Ross has allowed his mind and soul to be consumed by this seeming obsession. Ross now goes to a church in the Anglican denomination. It has worldwide problems with unbiblical practices, tolerance of gay clergy, blessing same sex marriages etc. There are CSA allegations and scandals in many countries. Ross offers no evidence of doing one single thing about the CSA or the many other vexing concerns in his present denomination.. Some of the things Ross mentioned in his post I witnessed as well on the other side of the world and are the reason I left the meetings much more recently than Ross. As the country I grew up in underwent political changes, the popular opinion, encouraged by the state church, became that they are "God's chosen people" - a sentiment that always repulsed me not just because of its ridiculousness, but also because it precludes its adherents from acknowledging and dealing with any injustice done to those who don't belong to the same ethnic group/church. I remember crossing the border once into a neighbouring country and being struck by the immediately visible difference - the roadside was clean and well taken care of. I thought: now, this is true patriotism! They don't just elevate themselves above everyone else, but they work on improving their country. Review, remember that it's f&w's who claim to be the only true way, not most other Protestant churches. I think that it follows that f&w's have even more responsibility to examine themselves and fix their problems than those who don't claim to be the only true way. Because the combination of self-exaltation and lack of self-examination is not just dishonest, but more importantly dangerous.
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Post by mdm on May 9, 2015 10:28:43 GMT -5
Ross said: "Some of the friends were adamant that it was perfectly acceptable for male workers to have affairs because they were not married and living in an "unnatural way" as they put it"
This statement fits in with some comments that were made to us when we brought up the issue of LW - that it is only normal and to be expected and accepted that immorality would happen since the workers live such unnatural lives. This view is held very sincerely by some of those we spoke to, and just as we were shocked at their view, they were unable to understand why it would shock us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 14:34:20 GMT -5
Please, everyone, try to stick to thread topics. Do not allow hard hearted/headed(?) people to lead them astray. Advise any, including me, to start one's own thread regarding straying issues.
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Post by snow on May 9, 2015 14:36:59 GMT -5
Ross Bowden's post on this thread once again reveals what appears to be almost an obsession he has with the church he left 20 years ago. His post contains his litany against the workers in his home state NSW in Australia.... on a thread about Leslie White in the United States. My observation is that Ross has allowed his mind and soul to be consumed by this seeming obsession. Ross now goes to a church in the Anglican denomination. It has worldwide problems with unbiblical practices, tolerance of gay clergy, blessing same sex marriages etc. There are CSA allegations and scandals in many countries. Ross offers no evidence of doing one single thing about the CSA or the many other vexing concerns in his present denomination.. I find it interesting that you would ask why exes care about issues within the membership. I would think a more important question would be why wouldn't we care? Do you not care about those outside of your membership? If not, why not? we are all part of the human family. Many still have loved ones in the membership so it makes sense that they have an even greater reason for caring. Not that there needs to be a reason for caring about how organizations handle issues as serious as CSA and spousal abuse.
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Post by snow on May 9, 2015 14:41:19 GMT -5
Could be. Sorry I was not clear. I meant in this thread, how they are connected. Ross might not know. Quite a few pages and many posts to go over and discover the connection. I had read Scott's post yesterday and nothing more. Today I signed on and read the last post and wondered the same thing: how in the world did the Anglican church pop into discussion? I found my answer scrolling back a page, but I was amused that we had not yet managed to go 'trinity' on this thread Oh that's just a little tactic by review005 to distract the conversation away from his church.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 15:04:23 GMT -5
I find it interesting that you would ask why exes care about issues within the membership ^^^^ Many here have grandchildren and nieces/nephews in the fellowship.It is the church of our youth. Our early minds were formed by the teachings of the Truth. Some see good things about the group that could be the basis for a better group someday.
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Post by Mary on May 9, 2015 15:13:50 GMT -5
Usually people talk about issues, if they have any, of an organization they are presently in. They don't usually write on message or other boards, they deal with it by talking and discussing it together. Take the Bibical example, for example. There is a big difference between discussing something on a message board and voicing your concerns to those around you verbally. Ross has a right to write on a message board for those who have been or who are members of your church as much as anyone.
If we wait until everything is perfect in our own backyard then no one would ever post. Ross had no doubt talked with those around him about his concerns. I have no reason to doubt him. Stop bullying him and get on with the topic at hand. Easy to see what happens to those in your church who point out things. They get bullied out.
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Post by snow on May 9, 2015 15:18:00 GMT -5
Snow please be assured I have no issue with Ross or anyone else posting about problems or their perceptions of problems in my church. Once I see evidence, just with the links to click on where I see that Ross is equally as passionate and equally as active in posting or writing about the problems in his present church/communion then I will post on this forum/thread apologising for incorrect aspersions I have been casting about Ross. At present the grave doubts I have about his motive and credibility sadly remain. I don't expect to be agreed with by the likes of your or the other flurry of posts made and that will be made. But I don't seek or curry popularity or acceptance of such posters I post according to my conviction of what is happening in this instance....hypocrisy. You miss the point Review. It really doesn't matter if other churches are worse or better than your's. It isn't a competition. It's about dealing with things and changing things for the better. Just what exactly is the 'likes of me'? You make it sound like I am similar to something distasteful you might find on the bottom of your shoe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 15:50:07 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 15:53:18 GMT -5
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Post by Greg on May 9, 2015 18:43:23 GMT -5
Please, everyone, try to stick to thread topics. Do not allow hard hearted/headed(?) people to lead them astray. Advise any, including me, to start one's own thread regarding straying issues. Dennis, you are off topic. Please stick to the topic.
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Post by Greg on May 9, 2015 18:44:18 GMT -5
Please, everyone, try to stick to thread topics. Do not allow hard hearted/headed(?) people to lead them astray. Advise any, including me, to start one's own thread regarding straying issues. Dennis, you are off topic. Please stick to the topic. I am off topic. I should stick with the topic or start another thread.
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Post by whyisitso on May 9, 2015 21:19:48 GMT -5
To Whom It May Concern, I, Sgt. Joel Heap of the Elbert County Sheriff’s Office along with the Investigations Unit, located in Kiowa, State of Colorado have been investigating the allegations of a criminal act committed by Leslie White. Within the past few months I have received multiple phone calls regarding a letter that was sent, presumably by Mr. White. The letter reads as follows; Leslie White 1301 Battle Ridge Rd. Clinton, Maine 04927 lslwht@yahoo.com 703 338-8887
Nearly three years ago I was accused of a terrible thing that completely surprised and startled me for I knew I was falsely accused but hardly knew how to respond, and what to do. However I had faith the matter would ultimately be resolved and our good family name restored. I am so very grateful for the Workers and Friends who have stood by me during these painful, dark, days. God has provided a peace and comfort during this time that I have been very grateful for. Your prayers, letters, emails, and telephone calls have been such a strong support, and have helped to sustain me spiritually and physically.
Blessedly some of the Workers and Friends took the initiative to reconstruct the time and events of this terrible thing, which was to have occurred nearly ten years previous, and were able to prove I was not present at the time and place of the alleged crime. Many people were officially interviewed to build a conclusive body of evidence and get to the truth of this matter. Because of all this effort I am now able to write this letter today with the hope of clearing our family name.
Ultimately local authorities also dropped the complaint and made no charges due to lack of evidence.
This experience has been very painful and humbling and it has taught me so very much. I pray these lessons will stay with me the rest of my days.
Please note, during the next five or six months I plan to be in Colorado working with some of the Friends.
Thank you for your prayers, interest, and every kindness.
Your brother,
Leslie WhiteI, (Sgt. J. Heap) would like to make it very clear that this case is still under investigation with Mr. White as the suspect of the criminal acts committed. At no point have I or the Elbert County Sheriff’s Office made any statements regarding the complaint being dropped due to lack of evidence. In fact, Mr. White has been given the opportunity to give his side of the story since the time of discovery of the allegations, however refuses to do so. Mr. White has never contacted me in any form regarding this case and would have no viable way to make an accurate conclusion or statement that the local authorities dropped the complaint and made no charges due to lack of evidence. The offer has always stood on the table for him to come forward and speak with me regarding the events that took place and to this day I have heard nothing from him or the people he claims have reconstructed the time of events and found him not liable. The Elbert County Sheriff’s Office will continue to investigate and build our case as information continues to be brought forward. Regards, _______________________________________________________________________________ Investigations Sgt. J. Heap Elbert County Sheriff’s Office Desk: (303) 805-6109 Main: (303) 621-2027 Fax: (303) 621-2055 Dispatch: (303) 660-7500 751 Ute Ave. P.O. Box 486 Kiowa, Co 80117 Would be good if this could be sent to the people LW sent his email to. I will NEVER understand the lies and cover ups from these peoples mouths. Why would he come back and send an email to say it's all sorted when it can clearly be verified that it's not? Is LW of sound mind? Review if this was a worker that had been in your field what would you do to protect the friends? (apparently young women who may be at risk?) (I understand that you're not responsible for the actions of LW - I'm not asking you to make any kind of excuses for him or analyse his behaviour)
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julio
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Post by julio on May 10, 2015 15:34:39 GMT -5
Snow please be assured I have no issue with Ross or anyone else posting about problems or their perceptions of problems in my church. Once I see evidence, just with the links to click on where I see that Ross is equally as passionate and equally as active in posting or writing about the problems in his present church/communion then I will post on this forum/thread apologising for incorrect aspersions I have been casting about Ross. At present the grave doubts I have about his motive and credibility sadly remain. I don't expect to be agreed with by the likes of your or the other flurry of posts made and that will be made. But I don't seek or curry popularity or acceptance of such posters I post according to my conviction of what is happening in this instance....hypocrisy. You mention credibility, which was exactly what came to mind when reading Ross' post: any statement about what another believes is not a fact, as one cannot be in another's mind. But far more telling is statements like "Jesus is never mentioned" - using the words 'always' or 'never' is standard in identifying lack of credibility.
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Post by whyisitso on May 10, 2015 16:13:53 GMT -5
Probably very similar to what the workers in the US have done...supported the Overseers stood him down from the work. Thanks for your reply Review. In your part of the world, what would be the support given to the victim from the workers?
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Post by fixit on May 10, 2015 17:20:11 GMT -5
Probably very similar to what the workers in the US have done...supported the Overseers stood him down from the work. Would they have supported the overseers if he had been retained in the work?
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Post by rational on May 10, 2015 18:12:22 GMT -5
I wonder how many people believed LW's letter to be true unfortunately. Probably many especially since the official word coming from overseers is that 'mangochango' is lying and that "poor Leslie is not in the work because of what seems to be a false allegation." This was said to us by two overseers who were even involved in dealing with other accusations against Leslie prior to the rape allegation. Given this is an open case and charges have not been made it would seem that there is not enough evidence for either side to move forward. What the workers say, what people writing here claim, all the hearsay stories really amount to nothing regarding the case. The only conclusion that can be reached is that we do not know all of the facts for certain and the complete truth is not being told.
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Post by matisse on May 10, 2015 20:27:02 GMT -5
Probably many especially since the official word coming from overseers is that 'mangochango' is lying and that "poor Leslie is not in the work because of what seems to be a false allegation." This was said to us by two overseers who were even involved in dealing with other accusations against Leslie prior to the rape allegation. Given this is an open case and charges have not been made it would seem that there is not enough evidence for either side to move forward. What the workers say, what people writing here claim, all the hearsay stories really amount to nothing regarding the case. The only conclusion that can be reached is that we do not know all of the facts for certain and the complete truth is not being told. I am willing to conclude that in his mass email LW misrepresented (to put it nicely) the status of the case. It may amount to nothing regarding the open case in CO, but it does mean something to me about LW's credibility.
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Post by rational on May 10, 2015 23:44:49 GMT -5
Given this is an open case and charges have not been made it would seem that there is not enough evidence for either side to move forward. What the workers say, what people writing here claim, all the hearsay stories really amount to nothing regarding the case. The only conclusion that can be reached is that we do not know all of the facts for certain and the complete truth is not being told. I am willing to conclude that in his mass email LW misrepresented (to put it nicely) the status of the case. It may amount to nothing regarding the open case in CO, but it does mean something to me about LW's credibility. Had my comment been regarding LWs email I would agree with you.
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Post by Greg on May 11, 2015 4:30:32 GMT -5
Is interesting to me that Leslie and the powers that be workers are content in the face of supposedly false allegations and supposedly to have proof to the contrary to still have Leslie sidelined from being an active worker. Yet perhaps he fills a role in letter writing, visiting house to house, and being an example of (supposed) persecution.
Is he listed as "resting" on any list?
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Post by matisse on May 11, 2015 4:35:29 GMT -5
I am willing to conclude that in his mass email LW misrepresented (to put it nicely) the status of the case. It may amount to nothing regarding the open case in CO, but it does mean something to me about LW's credibility. Had my comment been regarding LWs email I would agree with you.HA! Don't hurt yourself! You do know this is a thread called Email from Leslie.....
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Post by rational on May 11, 2015 6:46:12 GMT -5
Had my comment been regarding LWs email I would agree with you.HA! Don't hurt yourself! Sometimes it doesn't hurt as much as you would think to compromise. I do. I guess the tracks of my tears tears tell of my sorrow and disappointment in the sudden realization that you are unable to understand that every post in a thread does not strictly address only the subject line for that post but, by including the relevant part of another poster's text, may speak to related subjects as well. Now I will have to go and change or dry my shirt (the dark blue of this text is the result of the wave of depression that I feel rolling over me - sniff).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 10:24:54 GMT -5
Rat, that was a very nasty thing to say. Why do you think you, do not have to show any common decency on this board???
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Post by SharonArnold on May 11, 2015 10:45:37 GMT -5
Rat, that was a very nasty thing to say. Why do you think you, do not have to show any common decency on this board??? Uh, I think that exchange was meant to be humorous. Rat and matisse are just bugging each other. (I thought it was funny.)
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