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Post by snow on Feb 2, 2015 11:58:27 GMT -5
Baal was worshiped by the Jews at one point and was the God of Fertility. Tell my how they can be copy cats when they came BEFORE Jesus? The Christian religion is the copycat. Read an article the other day about this saying that yes there were myths that were similar but Jesus story was a real myth. Really? The early church knew this was going to be a hard sell to the pagans. They even went as far as to try to say that the devil caused all those earlier religions to have the same story in order to make the Jesus story look like a copy cat religion and a myth. That's really grasping. God had warned them NOT to marry or mingle with Baal of foreign gods in the land. There has been Jews who worship Baal among the children of Israel for centuries even today!Well of course the God of War who wanted to be their only God would tell them not to worship their God of Fertility. How else do you get rid of the competition? Nathan, from what you post, I think you live in a very fearful world. Satan, demons, reptilians. Is that healthy to believe in all those things?
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Post by faune on Feb 2, 2015 12:25:55 GMT -5
American history goes back approximately 239 years. My ex-wife is from Iran. She pointed out to me once that Iranian history goes back 10,000 + years. There are cooking recipes in Iran that have been passed down for thousands of years and can't be found in any cook book. Look at Chinese history ... which goes back even further. Has anyone read the writings of Confucius ... written before Christ was even born? Some of the things Christ said had already been said by Confucius. Anyone can do an online search for similar quotations of Christ and Confucius.If someone can prove to me that there were gospel meetings and workers before and during the time of confucius I will go back to meeting ... profess ... and I'll be more loyal that George Walker was! terfly4fun ~ In relation to your highlighted quote above, I agree. Some of the things that Christ said were already said by Confucius. Here's an example from an online search regarding the same.
http://east_west_dialogue.tripod.com/id2.html A Comparison of Christianity and Confucianism
Perhaps this chart gives a better comparison, since it covers all world religions and belief systems, including Atheism?
www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm The Big Religion Chart
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Post by snow on Feb 2, 2015 13:08:01 GMT -5
Well of course the God of War who wanted to be their only God would tell them not to worship their God of Fertility. How else do you get rid of the competition? Nathan, from what you post, I think you live in a very fearful world. Satan, demons, reptilians. Is that healthy to believe in all those things? We read in the Old and New Testament God grant the women of Israel children if they obey His law. They don't need the pagan gods of fertility. He is the God of Almighty, Nothing is impossible for Him to perform. Why go to the imitation, when you have the best at your disposal.You better be on the alert the devil is seeking for bodies whom he can possess, take control of and kill. I post these information to educate and warn people about them. The unbelievers, the fearful should be AFRAID of Satan because He is REAL and He will go after them.
To believers Peter wrote I Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.Nathan that is a fear based religion if that is all you focus on. I doubt very much that I will be devoured by the devil. One more verse to confirm that the Bible has no credibility for me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 2, 2015 20:11:37 GMT -5
Nathan that is a fear based religion if that is all you focus on. I doubt very much that I will be devoured by the devil. One more verse to confirm that the Bible has no credibility for me. Satan doesn't devour you literally... but in many different ways... He corrupts your thoughts, minds in believing God doesn't exist, Jesus is a Myth. Without believing in Jesus as your Savior Satan has devour/gotten your soul. History is full of the myths of of Good vs Evil (god vs devil)
Battles between good and evil at the core of most all religious stories.
They are repeated from the legend of Beowulf through modern day literature in which the good use the "light" side of the Force and the evil use the "dark" side of the force. Light and dark are color tones synonymous with good and evil, respectively.
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Post by terfly4fun on Feb 2, 2015 20:54:04 GMT -5
Ok Nate. I thought George Walker studied to be a Presbyterian minister, and I thought George Walker and another man started the truth. That's what I read in a book about the so-called "2X2's" Hey, at least I haven't had anyone KILLED like Paul did. Wasn't it Paul who, before he was"saved," was so against Jesus Christ that he had people killed for being Christians? The Bible does say " .. prove all things ..." " ... search the spirits ..." and so on ... I'm looking for the TRUTH. What is REALLY true here Nate. That's all. I'm simply looking for the truth. Now, are you saying the "2x2's" go clear back to the Bible? I believe whathat got it right on the money....Interestingly, in this book there is a picture of all the Faith Mission pilgrims as of 1892, standing in four rows like a worker picture, and at their feet is a banner that says "holiness to the Lord". The Holiness Movement is simply the idea that you are redeemed when you are born again in Christ, but you are not sanctified at that point; you are not yet holy. Some denominations within the Holiness Movement speak of a second rebirth when you are sanctified, but I believe that with the friends you spend your life working toward being sanctified. This idea was quite common in Methodist circles of the late 19th century. William Irvine was steeped in it, because he attended Keswick Convention which is seen as a center of the Holiness Movement. Anyway, the pedigree is actually from the Moravian Church which dates back to 1457. John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, but who was actually an Anglican, was the first to spread the Holiness doctrine widely in his sermons and later his book titled "Christian Perfection". "Christian Perfection" is the same idea as Holiness, that you are "born again" once but then become perfected in Christ over time. I have read Wesley's book, but his distinction between perfected Christians who don't sin, but do make mistakes, versus unperfected Christians who aren't quite there yet, is quite a fine line if you ask me. But the essential idea of spiritual progress throughout life is a compelling one, all the same. So, this is from wiki - It was on the voyage to the colonies that the Wesleys first came into contact with Moravian settlers. Wesley was influenced by their deep faith and spirituality rooted in pietism. At one point in the voyage a storm came up and broke the mast off the ship. While the English panicked, the Moravians calmly sang hymns and prayed. This experience led Wesley to believe that the Moravians possessed an inner strength which he lacked.[8] The deeply personal religion that the Moravian pietists practiced heavily influenced Wesley's theology of Methodism.[9] And then the Moravian church was an offshoot of Catholicism, but almost a pre-Reformation one. However, some people believe the Moravian church, I'll quote wiki, "is reputed to have received the Apostolic Succession through the Waldensian Church, but the historicity of this is disputed." I personally doubt that, but most ideas in Christianity, like that of Holiness, have very deep roots. Anyway, potentially the lineage is: Vaudois/Waldensian -> Moravian -> Wesley -> Holiness -> Faith Mission -> Friends & workers William Irvine was a Presbyterian. He got the ball rolling with John Long a Methodist in 1898... William Irvine was discipline by the Faith Mission in 1898.Dr. Jaenen wrote: In March 1898, when Irvine was preaching in Borrisokane, in County Tipperary, Edward Cooney approach him, "each claiming the liberty to follow Jesus as (he) received progressive light from God by the Spirit." In June 1898, several of these workers, who were still affiliated with various denominations, met in Kilee to consider ministry requisites as described in Matthew chapter 10 gospel and related scripture. Cognizant that these scriptures referred specifically to the messianic ministry among the Jews, they also concluded that the conditions for the ministry REMAIN Unchanging throughout the New Testament. The commission was broaden beyond Palestine, the special manifestations of healing and exorcism were fulfilled, but the requirement for apostolic ministry remained Unaltered.
John Long, Fred Hughes, and William Irvine decided to launch out "by faith" like the Twelve apostles. Others joined them, including Edward Cooney, who gave up his job, renounced his inheritance, sold his possessions, ( £1300 is equivalent to New Zealand $230,000 now, using New Zealand Reserve Bank historic inflation data) distributed the money among the poor to become what became known as a "Tramp Preacher." Ben Boles, William Gill, Tom Turner, and John Sullivan gave up their employment to become poor, itinerant "Go-Preachers" completely dependent evangelists. In 1900 another group joined forces with them. Robert Hamilton and David Donaldson is Derrygonnelly became so dissatisfied with the ministry of Patrick O' Donavan in the Methodist church that they withdrew and started their own meetings in the Hamilton's home. Within three years of joining forces, their assembly produced Six persons who sold their possessions and went into the ministry. In 1901 a number of Todd's Christian workers joined forces with the "Tramps" or "Go-Preachers". William Irvine's experience and contacts, despite his sometimes erratic behavior, enable him to assume a leading role in the movement. So it was that a number of men and the women from various religious groups came together as the nucleus of what they believed to be a revival of an apostolic ministry. As the 2x2s Go-Preachers movement expanded beyond the Irish counties and the British Isles, a primitive hierarchy, or collective oversight by senior ministers, was established over the "fields" of an expanding world-wide community. This eventually gave the rise to questions of origins and founders. There followed a situation not dissimilar to that challenging Inquisitors in the 12th and 13th Centuries who were Unable to determine who had founded the heresies they sought to Exterminate. The medieval heretics (Waldensians, Cathars, Lollards, Vaudois, etc) themselves were unaware of such founders and they believed that the preachers they knew were true apostles inasmuch as they lived according to evangelical precepts.The Irish revivals produced a similar situation because leadership was COLLECTIVE and evangelization was NOT carried out by Individuals. There is sufficient evidence to support the interpretation given by one of the original participants, George Walker (1898 Go-Preacher), presented to the American Selective Service in 1942. William Irvine and Edward Cooney were eventually expelled by their co-workers. William Irvine asserted, at one point, that he had personally FOUNDED the movement but it was a claim that was NEVER admitted generally by the community. It was a claim resurrected almost a century later by detractors of the movement who sought to associate it with one particular individual. In fact, AFTER William Irvine being excluded from the ministry 1914 for moral laxity, Irvine adopted outlandish millennialist theology, perhaps influenced by the theories of Charles Russel and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, and repair to Jerusalem where he waited the expected Second Advent in 1914, believing that he was one of the two faithful witnesses mentioned in Apocalypse (Revelation chapter 11). Posted on TMB 2013:In 1914, the senior workers banded together and decided they would no longer allow Wm. Irvine to be their leader, and refused to submit to him any longer. Bill Carroll informed Irvine of their decision in either April or September of 1914. Irvine wrote Wm. (Bill) Carroll, “The Jesus Way was stolen, confiscated, misappropriated. I remember seeing and hearing you take it over in my presence.” (June 29, 1920 Letter to Wm. Carroll). Confirming this, Jack Carroll wrote: “It is just 4-1/2 years ago since the older workers in (the) old country told William Irvine that they could no longer recognize him as leader, or again as being in the ministry, unless there was a complete change in his manner of life.” (April 16, 1919 Letter by Jack Carroll to “My dear Brother or Sister” from Santa Barbara, CA) ~~ In 1914 William Irvine was excommunicated from the 2x2 Go-Preacher and eventually fellowship for moral laxity and doctrinal errors. He fancied himself “founder” of the fellowship, the Alpha gospel as he called it, and now one of the two final witnesses of the Omega gospel marking Christ’s return and the end of the world. He had written many letters to the friends all over the USA and Canada to sell their homes, farms, and invest their money in railroads, fisheries, canneries, shipping, etc. He was under the awful delusion that he is one of the two witnesses of Revelations, Chapter 11, and prophesies a worldwide drought and famine beginning 8/1/1914. William Irvine lived in Jerusalem as One of the two witnesses in Revelation and died there in 1947.
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