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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 21, 2015 15:35:04 GMT -5
How many Muslims do you KNOW who want sharia law? They're not retarded, you know. They came here to get out of the hell hole, not create another one. I don't see what the problem is -- the police seem to be doing a decent job of catching their criminals. They should, they're spying on every one of them they can find. You wouldn't recognize 90 percent of Muslims unless they told you they were Muslim. You have to go visit a good mosque some day. So who are the ones who come here and create the hell hole. You live in a hell hole? Seems like a lot of people think so. You can't punish a crime before it's committed. That's normal. People don't want to pay for more policemen. Ah -- it's a bit too late for the prevention. Where were all the racist voters when we needed them?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 21, 2015 15:38:05 GMT -5
I'm saying protect the innocent. Why favouritism? Go where help is needed. I like your suggestion. Protecting the innocent requires military action, and unfortunately lots of Westerners oppose that. Don't worry, our police forces are stocking up on tanks and all kinds of military equipment. Soon we'll be able to have them bomb some of our neighborhoods.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 21, 2015 23:25:35 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 8:44:58 GMT -5
The Saudi's were in the paper this morning. Apparently we (Canada) are selling $15 billion worth of armoured vehicles to the Saudi's but our government is refusing to say whether our normal export rules will apply. The rule in question is one that says we won't export munitions that a govt plans to use on its own people. Do you support Operation Inherent Resolve? Do you think the West should seal its borders, cut off all foreign aid and trade, and leave the Islamic world to deal with its own problems? It would require a rather heartless response to the millions of refugees that the Islamic world is good at producing. Do you have a solution for the asylum seekers that would no doubt increase exponentially if the West stopped being involved in the Islamic world? I say whoa, chicken hawk. This is about the sale of *armoured vehicles* to a despotic dictatorship.
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 8:50:22 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with Muslims wanting sharia law. The point is, will they get it? Certainly here in Canada the resounding answer is NO. BTW, do you know why they want sharia law? I guess they want Sharia law because it's their religion and culture. They likely see it as a solution to their problems - just as the Nazis saw the holocaust as the solution to their problems. I'm not seeing the connection between the holocaust and sharia law. Maybe a better one would be between sharia law and salted licorice, which seems to be found wherever Dutch people go in the world. Although many people dislike the taste so far no one has stopped its spread.
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Post by rational on Jan 22, 2015 10:16:06 GMT -5
Maybe a better one would be between sharia law and salted licorice, which seems to be found wherever Dutch people go in the world. Although many people dislike the taste so far no one has stopped its spread. I order/eat all I can to keep the demand for salmiak up! It also satisfies my craving for NH4Cl!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 22, 2015 11:57:36 GMT -5
Maybe a better one would be between sharia law and salted licorice, which seems to be found wherever Dutch people go in the world. Although many people dislike the taste so far no one has stopped its spread. I order/eat all I can to keep the demand for salmiak up! It also satisfies my craving for NH4Cl!I can see the results in your latest avatar.
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 14:30:43 GMT -5
Do you support Operation Inherent Resolve? Do you think the West should seal its borders, cut off all foreign aid and trade, and leave the Islamic world to deal with its own problems? It would require a rather heartless response to the millions of refugees that the Islamic world is good at producing. Do you have a solution for the asylum seekers that would no doubt increase exponentially if the West stopped being involved in the Islamic world? I say whoa, chicken hawk. This is about the sale of *armoured vehicles* to a despotic dictatorship. Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL".
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Post by snow on Jan 22, 2015 14:38:19 GMT -5
I say whoa, chicken hawk. This is about the sale of *armoured vehicles* to a despotic dictatorship. Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". LOL Saudi Arabia being part of Operation Inherent Resolve is like having a fox in the chicken house. They are Wahhabi.
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 14:39:11 GMT -5
I say whoa, chicken hawk. This is about the sale of *armoured vehicles* to a despotic dictatorship. Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 22, 2015 15:03:30 GMT -5
I say whoa, chicken hawk. This is about the sale of *armoured vehicles* to a despotic dictatorship. Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". Have you checked your country's contribution to this Hypocrisy? www.liveleak.com/view?i=550_1421270303#kFWPEODVVRWjfyF0.99
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 22, 2015 15:07:13 GMT -5
Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. Looks like you have a prime minister somewhat resembling Bush 43. Now the US police departments will be looking for some of them too. They're more modern that the ones the US military is letting them have.
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 15:46:12 GMT -5
Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 22, 2015 16:23:21 GMT -5
It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL? Do you know who else it doesn't work for?
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 17:00:42 GMT -5
Do you know who else it doesn't work for? It doesn't work for societies who fail to separate church and state.
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Post by snow on Jan 22, 2015 18:24:04 GMT -5
Which should give people some insight into 'Church'.
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 19:31:15 GMT -5
It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL? To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 22, 2015 19:44:57 GMT -5
It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL? Heck, women can't even drive their own car in Saudi Arabia! Why do you think is the reason for that ?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 22, 2015 19:49:18 GMT -5
Saudi Arabia is part of Operation Inherent Resolve which to working to eliminate ISIL. I'm not sure that Canada can say "we don't like your Sharia Law so we can't sell you vehicles to protect your troops from ISIL". It's not like that at all. Export rules set by our government require that for the sale of armaments to foreign governments to be approved, those governments must provide specific assurance that the armaments will not be used on their own people. The Government of Canada created these rules as part of our support for global human rights. This is a monstrous sale, and it appears that no assurance was sought as the rules require. Our government giveth the rules, and our government taketh away the rules especially when $15 billion is at stake. Not only was no assurance sought, as is required on such a sale, but past sales of these armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia have apparently been used to stop riots and disorder within their country. Probably had to use those armored trucks to keep women from rioting for the right to drive their own cars!
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Post by snow on Jan 22, 2015 20:16:15 GMT -5
I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL? To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue. What is Harper's government saying is the reason they haven't made sure of this before the sale? Did they give a reason or is it business as usual and Harper doesn't think he needs to explain what he does?
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 20:45:40 GMT -5
I would like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be applied and enforced worldwide. Sadly, UDHR does not work for Islamic-majority societies so Western governments are forced to hold their nose while dealing with Islamic governments. If the Saudi government fell, it's extremely unlikely that something more humane and stable would replace it. Either we work with governments in the Islamic world as best we can, or we fence off that part of the world and leave them to it. Letting ISIL have its merry way is not a good option. Western countries confronting ISIL without the participation with neighbouring countries would be seen as a Western invasion of Arab lands. Western countries can't bring Saudi Arabia into Operation Inherent Resolve which treating them like an ally. Should we ask them to ditch Sharia law and hold democratic elections before we can supply armoured vehicles to protect their soldiers from ISIL? To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue. ISIL is their own people (together with a few others).
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 21:05:29 GMT -5
To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue. What is Harper's government saying is the reason they haven't made sure of this before the sale? Did they give a reason or is it business as usual and Harper doesn't think he needs to explain what he does? As much as we hate Sharia law, the reality is that a stable Saudi Arabia is for the greater good. It would be foolish for the West to allow Saudi Arabia to descend into chaos like we see in Syria.
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Post by snow on Jan 22, 2015 21:46:43 GMT -5
What is Harper's government saying is the reason they haven't made sure of this before the sale? Did they give a reason or is it business as usual and Harper doesn't think he needs to explain what he does? As much as we hate Sharia law, the reality is that a stable Saudi Arabia is for the greater good. It would be foolish for the West to allow Saudi Arabia to descend into chaos like we see in Syria. Saudi finances a lot of the terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden's family is good friends with the Saudi royals and they definitely take care of their own. They work both sides of the block. Read a book written by a wife of Osama's brother. Very interesting book about life in Saudi and the bin Laden family. But another thing that upsets me is how Harper always thinks he can just break his own laws. He has been doing it ever since he got into power.
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 22:33:22 GMT -5
As much as we hate Sharia law, the reality is that a stable Saudi Arabia is for the greater good. It would be foolish for the West to allow Saudi Arabia to descend into chaos like we see in Syria. Saudi finances a lot of the terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden's family is good friends with the Saudi royals and they definitely take care of their own. They work both sides of the block. Read a book written by a wife of Osama's brother. Very interesting book about life in Saudi and the bin Laden family. But another thing that upsets me is how Harper always thinks he can just break his own laws. He has been doing it ever since he got into power. Al Qaeda is a threat to Saudi Arabia so it makes no sense that they would support them.
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2015 22:53:28 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 23:53:52 GMT -5
To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue. What is Harper's government saying is the reason they haven't made sure of this before the sale? Did they give a reason or is it business as usual and Harper doesn't think he needs to explain what he does? They're basically stonewalling the questions by saying the terms of the deal are confidential and can't be discussed. www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-arms-deal-with-saudi-arabia-shrouded-in-secrecy/article22547765/
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Post by What Hat on Jan 22, 2015 23:57:16 GMT -5
To answer your question, the only stipulation made by the Government of Canada is that the purchaser indicate they will not use the armaments on their own people. If they want to use the armaments on ISIL, there is no issue. ISIL is their own people (together with a few others). "Their own people" means other Saudi's, not other Moslems. A war with another sovereign state is not generally an abuse of human rights; such abuses involve how one's own citizens are treated. The Saudi's do not have a good record in that regard.
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Post by What Hat on Jan 23, 2015 0:04:59 GMT -5
What is Harper's government saying is the reason they haven't made sure of this before the sale? Did they give a reason or is it business as usual and Harper doesn't think he needs to explain what he does? As much as we hate Sharia law, the reality is that a stable Saudi Arabia is for the greater good. It would be foolish for the West to allow Saudi Arabia to descend into chaos like we see in Syria. Certainly the history of the West is that we have brutalised the rest of the world in the process of preventing "chaos". Good order basically means obtaining the world's resources and cheap labour in order to maintain our standard of living. That's just how it is, but then we should stop pretending that we want democracy in the Muslim world. Democracy is far too messy and it can take many decades of chaos to transition from an orderly dictatorship to a stable democracy.
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