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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 13:36:42 GMT -5
** Jesus was talking to His apostles that some of them will see His glorious form before they died, and the following day Jesus showed them on MT. of transfiguration. " till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is not the same as " see His glorious form" See the son of man coming in his kingdom is the 2nd coming, and none of the events prophesied happened then or now. Aww there was heavens kingdom's glory at the transfiguration. Moses and Elijah appeared in recognizable flesh and they'd been dead or gone for hundreds of years. The Apostles recognized the greatness of what occurred in front of them. They witnessed the complete transfiguration of Jesus' body. They heard God the Father's voice with no doubts as to who's voice it was. They DID see the glory of heaven's kingdom by the very things that happened were not happenings of earthly flesh. They understood that what they witnessed was what life would be like in the kingdom of heaven. They understood that Jesus would have transfigured flesh with his spirit intact in heaven and that so did Moses and Elijah. That God's pleasure only would be found in heaven. We could argue the point that Jesus' words were never fulfilled but the Buble is clear to what did happen and that the glory of heaven was witnessed by Peter, James and John. Another thing that adds to the value of their witnessing is as they and Jesus came down from the mount, Jesus told them not to speak a word about what had happened until after Jesus' own death and Resurrection. He knew no one would believe that they'd seen the glory of heavens kingdom just like some on here are doubting that this occurance was what Jesus was speaking about. But it is and was.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 22, 2018 13:40:48 GMT -5
quote- and none of the events prophesied happened then or now. Here's a hundred for starters. www.100prophecies.org/Bible prophecy: Isaiah 7:14 Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC Prophecy fulfilled: About 5 BC Bible prophecy: Zechariah 9:9 Prophecy written: Between 520 and 518 BC Prophecy fulfilled: About 31 AD
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2018 13:47:08 GMT -5
** Jesus was talking to His apostles that some of them will see His glorious form before they died, and the following day Jesus showed them on MT. of transfiguration. I strongly disagree. But it's an interpretation that Christians have to believe because otherwise they would know that it's all not going to happen. He still had the holes in his side and his hands so he had never taken on his holy self in this world. *** That's Jesus resurrection body is the same ONE He is going to use it when HE returns to RULE with His followers, and they too will receive the similar resurrection bodies.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 13:47:35 GMT -5
He tried to tell the world of who he is God/the Son, performing many miracles before the people, but the Jews tried to KILL him for being a Blasphemer, a man claimed to be God. Jesus was telling the Jews the truth about Himself is God NOT the Father but the Christ/Son and they did NOT believe Him... Just like today!
John the apostle wrote in the gospel of John 5:17-18 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:25-33 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light" is much more convincing that a man speaking words alone. Jesus' transfiguration was a complete fleshly change. He could have gone back to heaven with Moses and Elijah that day. But he knew that his reason for coming to earth was to pay the penalty for mankind's sins. So he kept his heavenly body more or less under wraps so he could be treated as a criminal and be crucified because it had been foretold that he'd be lifted up as Moses rod was lifted up. This is the reason that the grave held no power over him. The reason he could rise to life again and the reason his flesh did not seek corruption. The transfiguration of Jesus has never been spoken on in appropriate ways. It alone was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. This IS the glory that heaven bestows on the elect of God. Paul wrote that those who were alive on earth when Jesus gathers his own from the four corners of the earth would be transfigured or transformed into the same flesh Jesus has "because we will know him".
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 13:53:59 GMT -5
I strongly disagree. But it's an interpretation that Christians have to believe because otherwise they would know that it's all not going to happen. He still had the holes in his side and his hands so he had never taken on his holy self in this world. *** That's Jesus resurrection body is the same ONE He is going to use it when HE returns to RULE with His followers, and they too will receive the similar resurrection bodies. Jesus keeps his wounds as those wounds were made in his transfigured flesh. Also they are reminders to the humans on earth that this is the man who suffered and died for our sins so we could know life eternal. Very few bridegroons want their battlescars to be seen by others and especially not his bride. His scars are his identification as the Lamb of God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 14:04:04 GMT -5
He didn't say his Apostles but was speaking about the "generation" that was alive at the time of his return. I take this to mean that people who are alive on the earth when Jesus' return happens, will remain on the earth, likely to live out an expected lifespan. The difference being that Jesus' people who are alive in earth will be gathered out from the living earth humans. Jesus speaks about this when he told about two men asleep beside each other in the bed, one will be taken and the other remain. Two women working side by side, one will be taken and the other left. Those that are left are not Jesus' own but they will continue to live and will have opportunity to become one with Jesus. It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. I've said this before but you just stopped yourself at the end if that 16th chapter of MATTHEW WHEN the subject matter continued into chapter 17 by the connecting words:. "AND after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and his brother John, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart," Then the transfiguration is recorded. And this is what Jesus was talking about some would see him coming in his kingdom.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 14:35:02 GMT -5
He didn't say his Apostles but was speaking about the "generation" that was alive at the time of his return. I take this to mean that people who are alive on the earth when Jesus' return happens, will remain on the earth, likely to live out an expected lifespan. The difference being that Jesus' people who are alive in earth will be gathered out from the living earth humans. Jesus speaks about this when he told about two men asleep beside each other in the bed, one will be taken and the other remain. Two women working side by side, one will be taken and the other left. Those that are left are not Jesus' own but they will continue to live and will have opportunity to become one with Jesus. It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. that could easily mean the 2nd death...its a lot like a mother saying after shes punished a kid your really gonna get it when your father gets home....
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2018 16:59:33 GMT -5
It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. that could easily mean the 2nd death...its a lot like a mother saying after shes punished a kid your really gonna get it when your father gets home...t WHAT "SECOND DEATH?"
That surely is trying to squeeze something different out of what is obviously meant!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 17:17:31 GMT -5
that could easily mean the 2nd death...its a lot like a mother saying after shes punished a kid your really gonna get it when your father gets home...t WHAT "SECOND DEATH?"
That surely is trying to squeeze something different out of what is obviously meant!the lake of fire....
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Post by xna on Dec 22, 2018 17:21:47 GMT -5
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light" is much more convincing that a man speaking words alone. Jesus' transfiguration was a complete fleshly change. He could have gone back to heaven with Moses and Elijah that day. But he knew that his reason for coming to earth was to pay the penalty for mankind's sins. So he kept his heavenly body more or less under wraps so he could be treated as a criminal and be crucified because it had been foretold that he'd be lifted up as Moses rod was lifted up. This is the reason that the grave held no power over him. The reason he could rise to life again and the reason his flesh did not seek corruption. The transfiguration of Jesus has never been spoken on in appropriate ways. It alone was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. This IS the glory that heaven bestows on the elect of God. Paul wrote that those who were alive on earth when Jesus gathers his own from the four corners of the earth would be transfigured or transformed into the same flesh Jesus has "because we will know him". If that was the 2nd coming then you should have seen - The Visible Return of Jesus - "every eye shall see him..." - Resurrection of All the Dead - Judgment of All Mankind - Rapture of the Saints - we are still posing - Burning Up of Planet Earth - Destruction of Satan - New Jerusalem
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Post by Grant on Dec 22, 2018 18:31:11 GMT -5
Jesus' transfiguration was a complete fleshly change. He could have gone back to heaven with Moses and Elijah that day. But he knew that his reason for coming to earth was to pay the penalty for mankind's sins. So he kept his heavenly body more or less under wraps so he could be treated as a criminal and be crucified because it had been foretold that he'd be lifted up as Moses rod was lifted up. This is the reason that the grave held no power over him. The reason he could rise to life again and the reason his flesh did not seek corruption. The transfiguration of Jesus has never been spoken on in appropriate ways. It alone was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. This IS the glory that heaven bestows on the elect of God. Paul wrote that those who were alive on earth when Jesus gathers his own from the four corners of the earth would be transfigured or transformed into the same flesh Jesus has "because we will know him". If that was the 2nd coming then you should have seen - The Visible Return of Jesus - "every eye shall see him..." - Resurrection of All the Dead - Judgment of All Mankind - Rapture of the Saints - we are still posing - Burning Up of Planet Earth - Destruction of Satan - New Jerusalem The second coming of Jesus hasn't happened yet. If it has then we've missed it or we were born too late.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 19:02:51 GMT -5
WHAT "SECOND DEATH?"
That surely is trying to squeeze something different out of what is obviously meant! the lake of fire.... It's troubling to think one can be resurrected out of an earthly grave, judged and sent into the fiery pit!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 19:05:37 GMT -5
Jesus' transfiguration was a complete fleshly change. He could have gone back to heaven with Moses and Elijah that day. But he knew that his reason for coming to earth was to pay the penalty for mankind's sins. So he kept his heavenly body more or less under wraps so he could be treated as a criminal and be crucified because it had been foretold that he'd be lifted up as Moses rod was lifted up. This is the reason that the grave held no power over him. The reason he could rise to life again and the reason his flesh did not seek corruption. The transfiguration of Jesus has never been spoken on in appropriate ways. It alone was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. This IS the glory that heaven bestows on the elect of God. Paul wrote that those who were alive on earth when Jesus gathers his own from the four corners of the earth would be transfigured or transformed into the same flesh Jesus has "because we will know him". If that was the 2nd coming then you should have seen - The Visible Return of Jesus - "every eye shall see him..." - Resurrection of All the Dead - Judgment of All Mankind - Rapture of the Saints - we are still posing - Burning Up of Planet Earth - Destruction of Satan - New Jerusalem It wasn't his second coming! He hadn't left the first time yet when his transfiguration happened! The gathering of his saints will be the first clue that his millennial reign is not too far ahead. And that's when every eye shall see him and every knee shall bow.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 19:07:24 GMT -5
WHAT "SECOND DEATH?"
That surely is trying to squeeze something different out of what is obviously meant! the lake of fire.... And there is to be a second resurrection. The first resurrection is for the elect. The second happens as Judgment day comes.
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Post by Dennis J on Dec 23, 2018 1:12:00 GMT -5
When it happens, ‘spose believers will be the ones attempting to argue with Him? I doubt it.
What a joy Divine! This one can only imagine it! Knowing the words “well done...” will only be heard by those who have “done well in The LORD’s sight.”
Liked the expression “the reason the shepherds were in the field by night was, it was lambing season.” Have done that, even sleeping with my sheep (and goats.) This is why I have considered ever since those days of experience that my LORD’s true birthdate is more than likely closer to my own.
Ahh, to be there when the Lamb of God returns as King, asserting again, “what a joy divine!” Truly, I know in whom I have believed. On that day only those of the same mind will be in the number!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2018 11:29:08 GMT -5
When it happens, ‘spose believers will be the ones attempting to argue with Him? I doubt it.
What a joy Divine! This one can only imagine it! Knowing the words “well done...” will only be heard by those who have “done well in The LORD’s sight.”
Liked the expression “the reason the shepherds were in the field by night was, it was lambing season.” Have done that, even sleeping with my sheep (and goats.) This is why I have considered ever since those days of experience that my LORD’s true birthdate is more than likely closer to my own.
Ahh, to be there when the Lamb of God returns as King, asserting again, “what a joy divine!” Truly, I know in whom I have believed. On that day only those of the same mind will be in the number! Truly! Peter called that joy exceeding. I call it unexplicable. I know that love, acceptance and joy are complete in Jesus for this is what he gives us that will stand before him in salvation.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2018 13:00:57 GMT -5
I strongly disagree. But it's an interpretation that Christians have to believe because otherwise they would know that it's all not going to happen. He still had the holes in his side and his hands so he had never taken on his holy self in this world. *** That's Jesus resurrection body is the same ONE He is going to use it when HE returns to RULE with His followers, and they too will receive the similar resurrection bodies. So Jesus resurrection body has a hole in it's side and in his hands and feet? That doesn't sound like a great resurrection body to me.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2018 13:02:37 GMT -5
It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. I've said this before but you just stopped yourself at the end if that 16th chapter of MATTHEW WHEN the subject matter continued into chapter 17 by the connecting words:. "AND after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and his brother John, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart," Then the transfiguration is recorded. And this is what Jesus was talking about some would see him coming in his kingdom. I disagree. His returning is the rapture and that has not happened. But I can see why Christians need to think of it different.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2018 14:48:46 GMT -5
I've said this before but you just stopped yourself at the end if that 16th chapter of MATTHEW WHEN the subject matter continued into chapter 17 by the connecting words:. "AND after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and his brother John, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart," Then the transfiguration is recorded. And this is what Jesus was talking about some would see him coming in his kingdom. I disagree. His returning is the rapture and that has not happened. But I can see why Christians need to think of it different. His returning isn't the rapture. The rapture is when the angels will gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. Jesus will take those elect into heaven. They may be there for a time. Some say that Jesus will gather his elect before the last 3&1/2 years of the tribulation. However Jesus' return is when he begins his millennial reign and he will bring those afore gathered saints with him. So the rapture has to do with gathering Jesus saints. Those who are deceased will be resurrected first then in a twinkling of an eye the living saints will be transfigured into the same kind of body Jesus has, for we will know him. This is the first resurrection. Then Jesus will take his saints with him to heaven. The Bible is not actually out and out clear on how long the saints and Jesus will be in heaven before Jesus returns to earth for his millennial reign. But it is clear that the living saints will be gathered away from the tribulation, the last half, that is. So with that one would suspect that at least 3 years will be between the rapture and Jesus' return to earth. Jesus' return is likely to happen at the time of the feast of Tabernacles season, so say some biblical scholars.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2018 14:54:52 GMT -5
I disagree. His returning is the rapture and that has not happened. But I can see why Christians need to think of it different. His returning isn't the rapture. The rapture is when the angels will gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. Jesus will take those elect into heaven. They may be there for a time. Some say that Jesus will gather his elect before the last 3&1/2 years of the tribulation. However Jesus' return is when he begins his millennial reign and he will bring those afore gathered saints with him. So the rapture has to do with gathering Jesus saints. Those who are deceased will be resurrected first then in a twinkling of an eye the living saints will be transfigured into the same kind of body Jesus has, for we will know him. This is the first resurrection. Then Jesus will take his saints with him to heaven. The Bible is not actually out and out clear on how long the saints and Jesus will be in heaven before Jesus returns to earth for his millennial reign. But it is clear that the living saints will be gathered away from the tribulation, the last half, that is. So with that one would suspect that at least 3 years will be between the rapture and Jesus' return to earth. Jesus' return is likely to happen at the time of the feast of Tabernacles season, so say some biblical scholars. Then why is it called the second coming? Most Christians would say he hasn't returned yet.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 23, 2018 14:55:57 GMT -5
As far as the rapture , second coming etc etc . I prefer to just be on the welcoming committee rather than the planning committee . Alvin
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2018 14:58:39 GMT -5
*** That's Jesus resurrection body is the same ONE He is going to use it when HE returns to RULE with His followers, and they too will receive the similar resurrection bodies. So Jesus resurrection body has a hole in it's side and in his hands and feet? That doesn't sound like a great resurrection body to me. I never saw his side but I did see his hands and one foot. They had kind of reddened scars, like we see of fresh closed wounds. Which for some people they never turn white it flesh tones. Some people firm what is called keloid scars which are generally different colored then the skin around them. And since Jesus' wounds were not attended, one would naturally expect him to have notable scars. And yes, he would have the power to close them and dismiss any sign of those wounds but they do serve as an assurance that he is really Jesus the crucified and resurrected Lord. Jesus had warned that there'd be many come who would say they were him and they would do great signs and wonders, but it'd be kind of hard for them to scar themselves enough like Jesus' to fool people. One would have to be pretty desperate to go under some kind of flesh defacing to get scars that'd look anything like Jesus'. Kinda sadistic self-mutilators.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2018 15:14:39 GMT -5
His returning isn't the rapture. The rapture is when the angels will gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. Jesus will take those elect into heaven. They may be there for a time. Some say that Jesus will gather his elect before the last 3&1/2 years of the tribulation. However Jesus' return is when he begins his millennial reign and he will bring those afore gathered saints with him. So the rapture has to do with gathering Jesus saints. Those who are deceased will be resurrected first then in a twinkling of an eye the living saints will be transfigured into the same kind of body Jesus has, for we will know him. This is the first resurrection. Then Jesus will take his saints with him to heaven. The Bible is not actually out and out clear on how long the saints and Jesus will be in heaven before Jesus returns to earth for his millennial reign. But it is clear that the living saints will be gathered away from the tribulation, the last half, that is. So with that one would suspect that at least 3 years will be between the rapture and Jesus' return to earth. Jesus' return is likely to happen at the time of the feast of Tabernacles season, so say some biblical scholars. Then why is it called the second coming? Most Christians would say he hasn't returned yet. He hasn't returned actually to be counted. He did go immediately to heaven after Mary M saw him in the garden. He told her to tell his disciples that he was going to his God and their God. This was his Priestly entrance into the Holiest of Holies. Since the veil in the earthbound temple was rent in two, there was no more Holiest of Holies on earth. So in order to do his priesthood forever after the order of Melchizedek, he had to go into heaven before the Father to deliver himself as the sin sacrifice and at the same time claim his priesthood. He came back later in the same day and appeared to those disciples who were gathered togethered. Thomas wasn't there when Jesus returned. Now all that happened right after his resurrection. His recognized return will be when he brings his saints with him for his millennial reign. This will be after the tribulation. When he appears in the sky for the rapture is not considered his return. This is when he will resurrection all the saints that have died, this is the first resurrection, then in a flash his saints who are still alive will be changed into the same flesh Jesus has. Then Jesus will take his saints into heaven. The Bible isn't too clear how long they'll be there before coming back to the earth when Jesus Christ returns for his millennial reign. Some say that Jesus will gather his saints after the first 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation, which spares his saints from the worst parts of the tribulation. How soon after the tribulation when Jesus returns isn't said, but some scholars say that he will return during the time for the feast of the Tabernacles.
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2018 15:42:47 GMT -5
*** That's Jesus resurrection body is the same ONE He is going to use it when HE returns to RULE with His followers, and they too will receive the similar resurrection bodies. So Jesus resurrection body has a hole in it's side and in his hands and feet? That doesn't sound like a great resurrection body to me. Hole on his side, wounds on his hands, feet to show Thomas it was Jesus. The wounds could have all disappeared after that. The Resurrection bodies are marvelous indeed, Jesus could eat fish with the disciples on the beach, appear and disappear at will, go through walls. Flying like superman up in the sky... Teleportation bodies! at anytime or anywhere.
The Old and New Testament believers will receive the same resurrection bodies like Jesus has so we could RULE with Him as King of kings and LORD of lords during the 1000 yrs reign on earth and the Universe.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 15:50-54 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
After 1000 years reign of Christ has finished or conquer all of his enemies, Paul wrote in I Cor. 15:24-28 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
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Post by snow on Dec 24, 2018 14:24:35 GMT -5
Well I disagree, but I realize that it's what needs to be believed so we'll leave it at that. Thanks for the conversation Nathan and STR
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