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Post by snow on Dec 19, 2018 16:16:00 GMT -5
Not Cherie but ,easy enough question that evena simple guy like myself can answer. zero none 0 Alvin ** That is NOT true according to Jesus words and teachings Matt 16:18; Matthew 28; Acts 1:8; matthew 24 when Jesus returns he will sent his angels to gather His true church/assembly of believers from 4 corners of the earth. According to Jesus teachings the true church will be on the earth when he returns, so how can you say ZERO? Because he said he was going to return while some of his original apostles were still alive. But he didn't. Game over.
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Post by nathan on Dec 19, 2018 19:26:49 GMT -5
** That is NOT true according to Jesus words and teachings Matt 16:18; Matthew 28; Acts 1:8; matthew 24 when Jesus returns he will sent his angels to gather His true church/assembly of believers from 4 corners of the earth. According to Jesus teachings the true church will be on the earth when he returns, so how can you say ZERO? Because he said he was going to return while some of his original apostles were still alive. But he didn't. Game over. Game is NOT over, Show me the verses where Jesus said that and let us see, eh. I think you misread or don't understand what Jesus was saying.
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Post by snow on Dec 20, 2018 13:10:38 GMT -5
Because he said he was going to return while some of his original apostles were still alive. But he didn't. Game over. Game is NOT over, Show me the verses where Jesus said that and let us see, eh. I think you misread or don't understand what Jesus was saying.
Matthew 16:27-28 King James Version (KJV) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. He speaks of returning while some have not yet died. There is no other way to interpret that. It was said and it didn't happen. But knowing how important it is for Christians to interpret things in a way that justifies what they want to believe, I'm sure someone will say he didn't mean what he said.
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Post by nathan on Dec 20, 2018 17:01:00 GMT -5
Game is NOT over, Show me the verses where Jesus said that and let us see, eh. I think you misread or don't understand what Jesus was saying.
Matthew 16:27-28 King James Version (KJV) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. He speaks of returning while some have not yet died. There is no other way to interpret that. It was said and it didn't happen. But knowing how important it is for Christians to interpret things in a way that justifies what they want to believe, I'm sure someone will say he didn't mean what he said. ** we have explained many times to you in the past. If you continue to read chapter 17 Jesus took some of them= James, peter and John on the MT. of transfiguration and showed them His glorious God form before he was the Christ. After Jesus had paid the ransom price for our sins then He will come back in His glorious form King of kings to rule the Universe. James died 15 yrs later. Peter died 68 A.D. John died 98 A.D.
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Post by xna on Dec 20, 2018 18:50:04 GMT -5
** we have explained many times to you in the past. If you continue to read chapter 17 Jesus took some of them= James, peter and John on the MT. of transfiguration and showed them His glorious God form before he was the Christ. It seems strange that he felt he needed to convince only them about who he was, and not the rest of mankind. They should have by now believed every word he said without any doubts, as they had by then already seen many miracles first hand. If he could be so dramatically clear with them, why not do so with the rest of the world. Why the need to be so mysterious about such important info?
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Post by nathan on Dec 20, 2018 19:11:00 GMT -5
** we have explained many times to you in the past. If you continue to read chapter 17 Jesus took some of them= James, peter and John on the MT. of transfiguration and showed them His glorious God form before he was the Christ. It seems strange that he felt he needed to convince only them about who he was, and not the rest of mankind. They should have by now believed every word he said without any doubts, as they had by then already seen many miracles first hand. If he could be so dramatically clear with them, why not do so with the rest of the world. Why the need to be so mysterious about such important info? He tried to tell the world of who he is God/the Son, performing many miracles before the people, but the Jews tried to KILL him for being a Blasphemer, a man claimed to be God. Jesus was telling the Jews the truth about Himself is God NOT the Father but the Christ/Son and they did NOT believe Him... Just like today!
John the apostle wrote in the gospel of John 5:17-18 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:25-33 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
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Post by xna on Dec 20, 2018 19:25:21 GMT -5
It seems strange that he felt he needed to convince only them about who he was, and not the rest of mankind. They should have by now believed every word he said without any doubts, as they had by then already seen many miracles first hand. If he could be so dramatically clear with them, why not do so with the rest of the world. Why the need to be so mysterious about such important info? He tried to tell the world of who he is God/the Son, performing many miracles before the people, but the Jews tried to KILL him for being a Blasphemer, a man claimed to be God. Jesus was telling the Jews the truth about Himself is God NOT the Father but the Christ/Son and they did NOT believe Him... Just like today!
John the apostle wrote in the gospel of John 5:17-18 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:25-33 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light" is much more convincing that a man speaking words alone.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 19:56:05 GMT -5
Slowtosee, you are spot on with your post,replicating historical physical events is simply not possible. How anybody ever got the idea that to get to Heaven, you needed to emulate the way they lived 2000 years ago, is crazy, just nonsense. Even though we were made to try and do it, we failed, it just can't be done.
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Post by nathan on Dec 20, 2018 21:29:40 GMT -5
He tried to tell the world of who he is God/the Son, performing many miracles before the people, but the Jews tried to KILL him for being a Blasphemer, a man claimed to be God. Jesus was telling the Jews the truth about Himself is God NOT the Father but the Christ/Son and they did NOT believe Him... Just like today!
John the apostle wrote in the gospel of John 5:17-18 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:25-33 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light" is much more convincing that a man speaking words alone. How about raised the DEAD to life? Healed the blinds, the lepers, the deaf? raised from the dead himself... Don't you think these were better signs than Jesus face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as the light?
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Post by xna on Dec 20, 2018 21:33:56 GMT -5
"His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light" is much more convincing that a man speaking words alone. How about raised the DEAD to life? Healed the blinds, the lepers, the deaf? raised from the dead himself... Don't you think these were better signs than Jesus face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as the light?
That brings up Thomas, if he saw these first hand why did he have any doubt?
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Post by nathan on Dec 20, 2018 21:39:20 GMT -5
** That is NOT true according to Jesus words and teachings Matt 16:18; Matthew 28; Acts 1:8; matthew 24 when Jesus returns he will sent his angels to gather His true church/assembly of believers from 4 corners of the earth. According to Jesus teachings the true church will be on the earth when he returns, so how can you say ZERO? Replicating historical physical events is simply not possible , therefore the answer to your question is zero. Some groups might pretend to emulate the physical activities and methods of Jesus time , but I don’t even know of any 2x2 baptisms in the Jordan river , never mind preaching and gathering in Solomon’s temple , etc etc etc . Understanding that the church Jesus is building is within people’s hearts and lives changes the view . The apostles did NOT baptize their converts in the Jordan river, they baptized wherever there were water, we read Philip the evangelist baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch in the wilderness. The apostle Peter baptized the Romans Centurion and his family where he lived... The apostles preached almost anywhere or places that people are willing to listen the gospel message Jesus SAVES people. It was Jesus and apostles ministry that brought ETERNAL life to those who heard and believed the message Jesus SAVES. It is the SAME way today! through preaching of the apostles/workers and the followers of Jesus that people are SAVED when they listen to the message of Salvation... THAT is what I meant the historical part has been the same through the centuries even today among the 2x2s workers!
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Post by nathan on Dec 20, 2018 21:42:56 GMT -5
How about raised the DEAD to life? Healed the blinds, the lepers, the deaf? raised from the dead himself... Don't you think these were better signs than Jesus face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as the light?
That brings up Thomas, if he saw these first hand why did he have any doubt? Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body!
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2018 4:11:30 GMT -5
That brings up Thomas, if he saw these first hand why did he have any doubt? Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body!But he had seen others brought back from the dead. Why would one more be so unbearable?
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2018 8:42:54 GMT -5
Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! But he had seen others brought back from the dead. Why would one more be so unbearable? That was why we call him doubting Thomas, he should have believed in the apostles words, that Jesus has risen. Jesus said in John 20:26-29 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
It's the same today! with many people, exes and 2x2s. We have seen people doubt in the existence of Jesus, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God (Christ/the Son NOT God the Father). The word God refers to the Father and Christ/the Son.
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2018 10:08:23 GMT -5
That brings up Thomas, if he saw these first hand why did he have any doubt? Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! The part of the story of why Thomas didn't believe; " that he arose from the dead", that part makes the story problematic.
Thomas at this point in time while at the end of Jesus life should have no doubt Jesus could raise himself from the dead. He had already seen three people raised from the dead. If you can always be brought back to life after you die, then life is eternal.
One would think that after you see a guy raise three people from the dead, then you wouldn't be surprised if he raised himself from the dead, or for that matter changed the sky to green and the grass to blue.
Jesus Raises a Widow's Son From the Dead in Nain Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter Back to Life Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in Bethany
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2018 12:28:54 GMT -5
Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! The part of the story of why Thomas didn't believe; " that he arose from the dead", that part makes the story problematic.
Thomas at this point in time while at the end of Jesus life should have no doubt Jesus could raise himself from the dead. He had already seen three people raised from the dead. If you can always be brought back to life after you die, then life is eternal.
One would think that after you see a guy raise three people from the dead, then you wouldn't be surprised if he raised himself from the dead, or for that matter changed the sky to green and the grass to blue.
Jesus Raises a Widow's Son From the Dead in Nain Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter Back to Life Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in Bethany** Thomas doubted Jesus was with the apostles a week before! He unless I TOUCH his wounds and see him myself I will NOT believe.
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2018 13:04:34 GMT -5
Matthew 16:27-28 King James Version (KJV) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. He speaks of returning while some have not yet died. There is no other way to interpret that. It was said and it didn't happen. But knowing how important it is for Christians to interpret things in a way that justifies what they want to believe, I'm sure someone will say he didn't mean what he said. ** we have explained many times to you in the past. If you continue to read chapter 17 Jesus took some of them= James, peter and John on the MT. of transfiguration and showed them His glorious God form before he was the Christ. After Jesus had paid the ransom price for our sins then He will come back in His glorious form King of kings to rule the Universe. James died 15 yrs later. Peter died 68 A.D. John died 98 A.D. That isn't his return Nathan and you know it. He hasn't returned and they are all dead. You guys are still waiting.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 21, 2018 17:51:10 GMT -5
Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! The part of the story of why Thomas didn't believe; " that he arose from the dead", that part makes the story problematic.
Thomas at this point in time while at the end of Jesus life should have no doubt Jesus could raise himself from the dead. He had already seen three people raised from the dead. If you can always be brought back to life after you die, then life is eternal.
One would think that after you see a guy raise three people from the dead, then you wouldn't be surprised if he raised himself from the dead, or for that matter changed the sky to green and the grass to blue.
Jesus Raises a Widow's Son From the Dead in Nain Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter Back to Life Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in BethanyThe sky does turn green very briefly just at sunset. All to do with the different speeds of the different wavelengths in the colour spectrum.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2018 17:57:16 GMT -5
** That is NOT true according to Jesus words and teachings Matt 16:18; Matthew 28; Acts 1:8; matthew 24 when Jesus returns he will sent his angels to gather His true church/assembly of believers from 4 corners of the earth. According to Jesus teachings the true church will be on the earth when he returns, so how can you say ZERO? Because he said he was going to return while some of his original apostles were still alive. But he didn't. Game over. He didn't say his Apostles but was speaking about the "generation" that was alive at the time of his return. I take this to mean that people who are alive on the earth when Jesus' return happens, will remain on the earth, likely to live out an expected lifespan. The difference being that Jesus' people who are alive in earth will be gathered out from the living earth humans. Jesus speaks about this when he told about two men asleep beside each other in the bed, one will be taken and the other remain. Two women working side by side, one will be taken and the other left. Those that are left are not Jesus' own but they will continue to live and will have opportunity to become one with Jesus.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2018 18:07:35 GMT -5
** we have explained many times to you in the past. If you continue to read chapter 17 Jesus took some of them= James, peter and John on the MT. of transfiguration and showed them His glorious God form before he was the Christ. After Jesus had paid the ransom price for our sins then He will come back in His glorious form King of kings to rule the Universe. James died 15 yrs later. Peter died 68 A.D. John died 98 A.D. That isn't his return Nathan and you know it. He hasn't returned and they are all dead. You guys are still waiting. Snow if you'll look at the chapter before his transfiguration, is where he says that some there would see him in his glory. Then the next chapter starts with the accounting if the transfiguration. Peter also write in his Epistles of this occasion. II Peter 1:16-17. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, "but we're eyewitnesses of his MAJESTY." For he received from God the Father honour and GLORY, when there came a voice to him from the excellent GLORY, "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, in whom I AM well pleased." Vs.18 goes on to say...."And this voice came from heaven we heard, when WE WERE in the Holy Mount.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2018 18:15:13 GMT -5
Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! The part of the story of why Thomas didn't believe; " that he arose from the dead", that part makes the story problematic.
Thomas at this point in time while at the end of Jesus life should have no doubt Jesus could raise himself from the dead. He had already seen three people raised from the dead. If you can always be brought back to life after you die, then life is eternal.
One would think that after you see a guy raise three people from the dead, then you wouldn't be surprised if he raised himself from the dead, or for that matter changed the sky to green and the grass to blue.
Jesus Raises a Widow's Son From the Dead in Nain Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter Back to Life Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in BethanyThe Apostles had not the gift of the Holy Spirit yet, so they had to approach everything with only their human minds. Jesus said to them several times "Oh ye of little faith ". One would think that after witnessing resurrection of Lazarus and the widow's only son, that all of the disciples would believe Jesus' ability to raise himself. In fact he told them that he had power to Lay his life down and to take it up again. But then humans being as they are, without the Holy Spirit they couldn't balance these things in their hearts and minds.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 18:41:10 GMT -5
Thomas wasn't in the meeting when Jesus appeared to the apostles the first time. They told Thomas Jesus is ALIVE! He has risen and we have seen HIM, and we Touch or embrace Him with our own hands... Thomas, doubt Jesus rose from the dead and he was with the apostles! He wasn't doubt Jesus was the Son of God or God, he doubted Jesus was risen in His Resurrection body! The part of the story of why Thomas didn't believe; " that he arose from the dead", that part makes the story problematic.
Thomas at this point in time while at the end of Jesus life should have no doubt Jesus could raise himself from the dead. He had already seen three people raised from the dead. If you can always be brought back to life after you die, then life is eternal.
One would think that after you see a guy raise three people from the dead, then you wouldn't be surprised if he raised himself from the dead, or for that matter changed the sky to green and the grass to blue.
Jesus Raises a Widow's Son From the Dead in Nain Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter Back to Life Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in Bethanywell if one who raises people from the dead dies one might wonder how being dead he could raise himself up....just a thought we'll never know really why he doubted though...
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2018 19:03:35 GMT -5
well if one who raises people from the dead dies one might wonder how being dead he could raise himself up....j Well... He did say; but with God all things are possible.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2018 12:09:54 GMT -5
Because he said he was going to return while some of his original apostles were still alive. But he didn't. Game over. He didn't say his Apostles but was speaking about the "generation" that was alive at the time of his return. I take this to mean that people who are alive on the earth when Jesus' return happens, will remain on the earth, likely to live out an expected lifespan. The difference being that Jesus' people who are alive in earth will be gathered out from the living earth humans. Jesus speaks about this when he told about two men asleep beside each other in the bed, one will be taken and the other remain. Two women working side by side, one will be taken and the other left. Those that are left are not Jesus' own but they will continue to live and will have opportunity to become one with Jesus. It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2018 12:38:31 GMT -5
He didn't say his Apostles but was speaking about the "generation" that was alive at the time of his return. I take this to mean that people who are alive on the earth when Jesus' return happens, will remain on the earth, likely to live out an expected lifespan. The difference being that Jesus' people who are alive in earth will be gathered out from the living earth humans. Jesus speaks about this when he told about two men asleep beside each other in the bed, one will be taken and the other remain. Two women working side by side, one will be taken and the other left. Those that are left are not Jesus' own but they will continue to live and will have opportunity to become one with Jesus. It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ** Jesus was talking to His apostles that some of them will see His glorious form before they died, and the following day Jesus showed them on MT. of transfiguration.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2018 12:56:03 GMT -5
It says that those standing here, so that doesn't include us in this generation. He didn't return in their lifetime. That's one reason not a lot was written right away. It's also why many sold their earthly belongings getting ready for his return, which never happened. The rapture has not happened. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ** Jesus was talking to His apostles that some of them will see His glorious form before they died, and the following day Jesus showed them on MT. of transfiguration. I strongly disagree. But it's an interpretation that Christians have to believe because otherwise they would know that it's all not going to happen. He still had the holes in his side and his hands so he had never taken on his holy self in this world.
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Post by xna on Dec 22, 2018 12:59:31 GMT -5
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.** Jesus was talking to His apostles that some of them will see His glorious form before they died, and the following day Jesus showed them on MT. of transfiguration. " till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is not the same as " see His glorious form" See the son of man coming in his kingdom is the 2nd coming, and none of the events prophesied happened then or now.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2018 13:22:15 GMT -5
well if one who raises people from the dead dies one might wonder how being dead he could raise himself up....j Well... He did say; but with God all things are possible. The point being Jesus had told them that he had power to lay down his life and power to take it up again. But that still would be a breaker with humans' reasoning. Humans would be doubtful and think that once someone who is dead is beyond doing anything.
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