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Nov 20, 2014 22:35:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 22:35:26 GMT -5
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Nov 20, 2014 23:23:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 23:23:20 GMT -5
this is the verse your looking for: 1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
as to seeing and not seeing and hearing and not hearing:
it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:36:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 23:36:59 GMT -5
Jetmech, you must be reading the Irvine bible. There's lots of reference to hide, hidden, concealed, mystery etc in that bible. Verses such as "don't cast your pearls before swine" and "hidden from the wise and prudent" and "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs" and "bring them here and slay them before my eyes" and "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." and "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee..."
You don't read this much on web sites like this, or the TTT or Secret Sect books. These verses make out Jesus to be an itinerant 2x2 style, narrow minded, exclusive bigot. Which, as society tells you, is not true.
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Nov 21, 2014 0:43:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 0:43:37 GMT -5
it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ. Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 1:53:00 GMT -5
It says in scripture that God will take away even the little they have been given.
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Nov 21, 2014 3:00:12 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 3:00:12 GMT -5
It says in scripture that God will take away even the little they have been given.
Bert, we all know what the bible says, we've all read it, or at least a good part of it. Matt10
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Nov 21, 2014 12:10:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 12:10:59 GMT -5
it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ. Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 they say once you quit God you lose your vision, easy enough to understand...
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Nov 21, 2014 12:49:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 12:49:11 GMT -5
Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 they say once you quit God you lose your vision, easy enough to understand... Who said anything about 'vision' Wally? You specifically referred to 'knowing the mysteries'..... what happens to this 'knowledge' when non-belief sets in? Matt10
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Nov 21, 2014 12:52:30 GMT -5
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Post by matisse on Nov 21, 2014 12:52:30 GMT -5
Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 they say once you quit God you lose your vision, easy enough to understand... It's easy enough to understand why you must believe this! This concept allows the smoke and mirrors and the suspension of disbelief to remain intact for people left on the "inside" by the now "outsider". "God's thoughts and ways are beyond our thoughts and ways" is like a "kill switch" for the questioning mind. It's also, however, a seam in the bubble for any remaining "still small questioning voice of reason". I discovered and puzzled over this "seam" during my late teens. When the seam broke open a number of years later, the bubble, the smoke and mirrors, the suspension of disbelief all collapsed. Easy enough to understand.....now!
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Nov 21, 2014 12:54:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 12:54:17 GMT -5
they say once you quit God you lose your vision, easy enough to understand... Who said anything about 'vision' Wally? You specifically referred to 'knowing the mysteries'..... what happens to this 'knowledge' when non-belief sets in? Matt10 it goes away I.E you lose your vision...
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Nov 21, 2014 13:56:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 13:56:00 GMT -5
Who said anything about 'vision' Wally? You specifically referred to 'knowing the mysteries'..... what happens to this 'knowledge' when non-belief sets in? Matt10 it goes away I.E you lose your vision... I think you are still struggling with the difference between vision and knowledge. You surely don't mean unbelievers develop Alzheimer's and go blind at the same time? Matt10
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Nov 21, 2014 18:34:59 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 21, 2014 18:34:59 GMT -5
Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 they say once you quit God you lose your vision, easy enough to understand... This is pretty well covered in some of Paul's writings about only being able for the milk of the word versus the meat of the word. People who do not use the word will never get past needing the milk of the word, but it definitely speaks to the increased using of the word brings them into using the meat of the word. Otherwords they're more conscious of more information and how it relates to them. This is not unlike the acquaintances we've had in our lives....I think about all the kids I went to school with some of them 18 yrs. worth of school....and now I can hardly remember any of their names much less who they married, if they're still living, etc So it is in regards to the word of God....when we keep working on using the word of God, then our understanding will increase as God will see how ready we are for more knowledge and understanding, but if we just keep to a brief love affair like going to mtgs. only on Sun. morn and hitting a gospel mtg. now and then, we likely would find ourselves not gaining any knowledge of the word.....
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Nov 22, 2014 22:15:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 22:15:46 GMT -5
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Nov 22, 2014 22:37:07 GMT -5
Post by SharonArnold on Nov 22, 2014 22:37:07 GMT -5
it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ. Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 Now, a guy who sits in empty cathedrals listening to Bruch or Bach on an ipod does not strike me as a stranger to mystery. Of God, or anything else in life. "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." ~Joseph Campbell To quote Campbell further "Does it put you in touch with the mystery that is the ground of your own being?" To my mind, this not open to someone else's interpretation.
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Nov 22, 2014 22:44:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 22:44:10 GMT -5
This is pantheism. I have no idea where it is supposed to take you.
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Nov 22, 2014 22:47:42 GMT -5
Post by SharonArnold on Nov 22, 2014 22:47:42 GMT -5
This is pantheism. I have no idea where it is supposed to take you. Neither do I. But, somehow, that's okay. I'm beginning to think that is the point. (If there is one.)
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Nov 23, 2014 3:22:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 3:22:49 GMT -5
Wally, this sounds to me like a lot of nonsense. What about one who believes strongly in God and then ceases to believe in God at a later stage in life? Would such a person know the mysteries of God as a non-believer in later life or would they not Matt10 Now, a guy who sits in empty cathedrals listening to Bruch or Bach on an ipod does not strike me as a stranger to mystery. Of God, or anything else in life. "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." ~Joseph Campbell To quote Campbell further "Does it put you, in touch with the mystery that is the ground of your own being?" To my mind, this not open to someone else's interpretation. I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make here. What is clear that the God being referred to on this thread and to which Wally specifically refers is the God of the Bible, not some metaphorical reference to something else entirely. No one is claiming that other Gods, metaphorical or otherwise, impart a gift of knowledge of the mysteries of themselves to those who believe in them and then remove such knowledge when non-belief sets in. It may be worth pointing out that the idea that the biblical God has imparted the gift of knowledge of his mysteries to those on the board who believe and has removed this gift of knowledge from those on the board who have ceased to believe is just not backed up by anything that has been posted here to date. Matt10
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Nov 23, 2014 14:17:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:17:55 GMT -5
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Nov 23, 2014 14:22:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:22:42 GMT -5
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Nov 23, 2014 14:29:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:29:40 GMT -5
this is the verse your looking for: 1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. as to seeing and not seeing and hearing and not hearing: it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ. That's just it Wally. Exactly my point as well. Jetmech, have you been given the gift of knowledge of the mysteries of God? If so, can you share with us what this knowledge is? What is it that you know that (according to Wally) those on the board who no longer believe once knew, but no longer do? Matt10
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Nov 23, 2014 14:32:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:32:42 GMT -5
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Nov 23, 2014 14:42:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:42:39 GMT -5
Zzzz
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Nov 23, 2014 14:43:00 GMT -5
Post by faune on Nov 23, 2014 14:43:00 GMT -5
this is the verse your looking for: 1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. as to seeing and not seeing and hearing and not hearing: it is a gift from God to those who believe to know the mysteries of God(parables) it would really be a waste of time for non-believers to know the mysteries because they dont have an open mind hearts eyes or ears for Christ. That's just it Wally. Exactly my point as well. Jetmech ~ I'm also reminded of another verse that gives a logical reason for the parables, too, found in I Corinthians 2:14, which deals with spiritual discernment, which is given to genuine believers in Christ.
biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-14.htm
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Nov 23, 2014 14:47:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:47:45 GMT -5
Zzzzz
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Nov 23, 2014 14:52:26 GMT -5
Post by faune on Nov 23, 2014 14:52:26 GMT -5
Jetmech ~ You're welcome. However, that was a good question you asked and one that deserves a logical answer. The Biblehub.com reference provided previously also gives related verses to I Corinthians 2:14 and commentaries that follow, discussing the meaning of that verse. I just displayed a few translations of that verse for the readers.
biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-14.htm
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Nov 23, 2014 16:29:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 16:29:27 GMT -5
Bert, we all know what the bible says, we've all read it, or at least a good part of it. Matt10 Matt speak for yourself! Bert brought up a good point, and I know a man who's wife is from a large organized religion and has never owned a Bible, and has never read one word of the Bible! So we ALL have not necessarily read everything in the Bible! "Jetmech, have you been given the gift of knowledge of the mysteries of God? If so, can you share with us what this knowledge is? What is it that you know that (according to Wally) those on the board who no longer believe once knew, but no longer do? Matt10" Matt, I thought there weren't supposed to be any PERSONAL ATTACKS on this board against someone. I am 61 years old, and all I did was ask a question about Ch 13 of St. Matthew. Is there something "wrong" with me asking a question on here that would elicit a sarcastic response like yours Matt? If you're allowed to attack me then, let me ask you in response ... do YOU know it all Matt? Why don't you explain to all of us the mysteries of the Bible? It's funny too how you and others on here say you don't believe in the Bible and God is a metaphor and all, then when some of the points are made regarding the UFO'S, for example, to 'prove' there is life out there somewhere, some of you who attempt to 'prove' this quote the Bible!!! Ha! Take about bangin' yer head against the wall!!!! Either you believe God is a metaphor and the Bible is a metaphor ... or you don't. If you believe something is a 'metaphor' then why do you quote it to try to prove you're right. Like Mark Twain often said " ... you can't pray a LIE ...!" Jetmech, a few points if I may. (A) I refute entirely your allegation that asking a question on a public forum constitutes a personal attack. The whole point of a discussion forum is that issues get discussed and sometimes this involves questioning statements that are made. (B) I refute entirely your allegation that asking such a question constitutes sarcasm in any way. Wally made a claim, you agreed with it and I asked you to support it. This is hardly an unconventional approach on a discussion forum. C) We all have an age here and few of us know what age any of the rest of us are so I'm not sure what relevance one's age has. (D) I have never claimed that God is a metaphor. (E) I never comment on posts about UFOs. (F) One reason why I don't explain the mysteries of the bible is because I am not aware of what the phrase "mysteries of the bible" means. Indeed I asked you the question regarding the mysteries of the bible In an attempt to find this out but you failed to proved a meaningful response to the question. Regards Matt10
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Nov 23, 2014 21:23:44 GMT -5
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Nov 23, 2014 22:15:22 GMT -5
Post by faune on Nov 23, 2014 22:15:22 GMT -5
It says in scripture that God will take away even the little they have been given.
Bert ~ I feel that verse you quoted from Matthew 13:12 also gives the impression that the person with one talent never used what God had originally given him and just buried it in the ground. Since there was no investment of what was freely given by God, he actually had nothing to lose due to no fruit produced in his life perhaps from lack of belief in God's goodness or promises? It was also obvious that his view of God as a hard taskmaster contributed to his lack of motivation from the beginning.
Matthew 13:12
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