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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 31, 2014 14:13:21 GMT -5
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Post by applesandbacon on Oct 31, 2014 14:41:01 GMT -5
I can't figure out how to quote you properly. What I mean to say is, I don't believe GS is an elder and I don't believe he has meeting in his home. Applesandbacon ~ I thought I heard somebody shared that information in the past here on TMB that George S. was an elder and had meeting in his home? That's why I asked about it, as it would seem pretty strange to allow a sex offender retain such privileges after such a CSA conviction? Personally, I think they should be excommunicated from the fellowship for such a terrible offense! However, the fact that the 2x2 hierarchy still allow sex offenders from the past on convention grounds in violation of the legal guidelines in place is pretty sad! The leadership within the 2x2's seem to have their priorities totally misplaced when it comes to tolerating such blatant immoral persons within their midst! For any group claiming to be the "one an only way of salvation," they surely lack in moral scruples, IMHO.
Here's what it says about George S. on Wings for Truth with the classification of his endangerment to others. Since the Sex Offender Registry Board considered this individual as a high risk to re-offend and rates his degree of dangerousness posed to the public to be substantial, you would think the F&W's would use a little more caution here when it comes to abiding by the legal restrictions of the law for such convicted CSA offenders?
wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/george-scandalis/
I don't know about before, but since his conviction I don't believe he has a meeting. Also, I think people are warned before going to a meeting where he will be. We were warned once. Never about the other two though. And apparently it doesn't apply to convention!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 15:14:17 GMT -5
Re Quote - "Power of the wealthy" The (sic) have a nice big house the workers could have their own rooms and they had plenty of money to treat the workers like KINGS and QUEENS. Those with money...
Proverbs 14:30 A tranquil heart gives life to the flesh, but envy makes the bones rot.
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Post by Gene on Oct 31, 2014 15:36:57 GMT -5
Proverbs 14:30
A tranquil heart gives life to the flesh, but envy makes the bones rot.
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?
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Post by faune on Oct 31, 2014 18:14:55 GMT -5
GS and his wife were also held in high regard by the workers until his latest run in with the law. The have a nice big house the workers could have their own rooms and they had plenty of money to treat the workers like KINGS and QUEENS. Those with money have always been VERY Valued by the workers in the NORTHEAST!!! Marie ~ However, even with an expensive lawyer defending George S., he couldn't get out of this last one. They really had the goods on him this time! I guess money can't buy everything, but it does help gain approval and favors from the workers. LOL
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Post by bubbles on Oct 31, 2014 18:49:34 GMT -5
Convention would be a good time to address this when everyone is gathered together. How can you build up and encourage people without sorting this out. People will be whispering about it in their tents, over coffee,over soup, in the toilets, everywhere. Guaranteed.
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Post by déjà vu on Oct 31, 2014 20:38:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 20:57:59 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 31, 2014 22:30:44 GMT -5
By the way, re: the convention grounds in question. The influence of family money and worker PR on government agencies is nothing new for this convention grounds. At one point they succeeded in rerouting a highway that was being built so that it did not interfere with the convention site. What four-day private event gets that kind of consideration without a lot of money behind it?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 31, 2014 22:31:58 GMT -5
The workers are the best example for it.
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Post by faune on Nov 1, 2014 2:54:22 GMT -5
GS had Wednesday night meeting in his home with him as the elder of that meeting until his latest tangle with the law. I went to his house for Wed. night meeting when I was in college. Marie ~ Thanks for answering my question.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 8:16:54 GMT -5
Bert, This is what I have witnessed all my life growing up in the Northeast in a POOR family. Money speaks when it comes to MOST, not all WORKERS. My parents were respected, but not favored by the workers because they were poor. Other family on the other hand, were favored because of their money and clout they could have amongst the friends and workers. Spirituality of people has NOTHING to do WITH WEALTH OR POWER. It does not take much faith to live in this world if you have enough money to buy others off. On the other hand it takes a lot of faith to raise a large family without wealth and put your faith and trust in God, to see you through. That is the example my parents left to me and my siblings. An example that I have tried to leave to my children. We might not have what we want, but we have ALWAYS had what we needed.
Wealth is not the problem it is the favors handed out because of wealth. Something that I have heard workers condemn other churches for all my life.
The other problem I have seen with wealth all my life is, those with wealth can change the rules as they see fit while the poor is driven out for doing the same thing. Why do you think all the things I was raised as being wrong, are now alright. It is the power of money.
Divorce and remarry is one of the biggest issue I see in this regard. I have know of friends without money that were not allowed to have a part in meeting after divorce. I have also seen friends with plenty of money allowed to take part and never loose any place with the workers after divorce. Bert is there different rules in the bible for the poor and the wealthy???
Along with being wealthy is also, having come from the RIGHT family. Those are privileges that the average Joe does not enjoy in the Northeast.
So Bert, are there any of these problems where you live or is this just a problem in the Northeast USA?
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Post by faune on Nov 1, 2014 12:26:54 GMT -5
Bert, This is what I have witnessed all my life growing up in the Northeast in a POOR family. Money speaks when it comes to MOST, not all WORKERS. My parents were respected, but not favored by the workers because they were poor. Other family on the other hand, were favored because of their money and clout they could have amongst the friends and workers. Spirituality of people has NOTHING to do WITH WEALTH OR POWER. It does not take much faith to live in this world if you have enough money to buy others off. On the other hand it takes a lot of faith to raise a large family without wealth and put your faith and trust in God, to see you through. That is the example my parents left to me and my siblings. An example that I have tried to leave to my children. We might not have what we want, but we have ALWAYS had what we needed. Wealth is not the problem it is the favors handed out because of wealth. Something that I have heard workers condemn other churches for all my life. The other problem I have seen with wealth all my life is, those with wealth can change the rules as they see fit while the poor is driven out for doing the same thing. Why do you think all the things I was raised as being wrong, are now alright. It is the power of money. Divorce and remarry is one of the biggest issue I see in this regard. I have know of friends without money that were not allowed to have a part in meeting after divorce. I have also seen friends with plenty of money allowed to take part and never loose any place with the workers after divorce. Bert is there different rules in the bible for the poor and the wealthy??? Along with being wealthy is also, having come from the RIGHT family. Those are privileges that the average Joe does not enjoy in the Northeast. So Bert, are there any of these problems where you live or is this just a problem in the Northeast USA? Marie ~ I don't feel it's only obvious in the Northeast where money speaks with the workers? I believe it is something that you can observe all over within the 2x2's, especially the favoritism it affords some professing couples with the workers and the allowances that are made in respect to them?
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Post by mdm on Nov 1, 2014 21:03:00 GMT -5
Bert, This is what I have witnessed all my life growing up in the Northeast in a POOR family. Money speaks when it comes to MOST, not all WORKERS. My parents were respected, but not favored by the workers because they were poor. Other family on the other hand, were favored because of their money and clout they could have amongst the friends and workers. Spirituality of people has NOTHING to do WITH WEALTH OR POWER. It does not take much faith to live in this world if you have enough money to buy others off. On the other hand it takes a lot of faith to raise a large family without wealth and put your faith and trust in God, to see you through. That is the example my parents left to me and my siblings. An example that I have tried to leave to my children. We might not have what we want, but we have ALWAYS had what we needed. Wealth is not the problem it is the favors handed out because of wealth. Something that I have heard workers condemn other churches for all my life. The other problem I have seen with wealth all my life is, those with wealth can change the rules as they see fit while the poor is driven out for doing the same thing. Why do you think all the things I was raised as being wrong, are now alright. It is the power of money. Divorce and remarry is one of the biggest issue I see in this regard. I have know of friends without money that were not allowed to have a part in meeting after divorce. I have also seen friends with plenty of money allowed to take part and never loose any place with the workers after divorce. Bert is there different rules in the bible for the poor and the wealthy??? Along with being wealthy is also, having come from the RIGHT family. Those are privileges that the average Joe does not enjoy in the Northeast. So Bert, are there any of these problems where you live or is this just a problem in the Northeast USA? Marie ~ I don't feel it's only obvious in the Northeast where money speaks with the workers? I believe it is something that you can observe all over within the 2x2's, especially the favoritism it affords some professing couples with the workers and the allowances that are made in respect to them? A European worker told us that one reason why CSA offenders and the immoral are allowed to remain in the work is that some of them come from wealthy families who give a lot of money to the ministry/church. So, it appears that it's not a local problem.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 1, 2014 21:18:31 GMT -5
Marie ~ I don't feel it's only obvious in the Northeast where money speaks with the workers? I believe it is something that you can observe all over within the 2x2's, especially the favoritism it affords some professing couples with the workers and the allowances that are made in respect to them? A European worker told us that one reason why CSA offenders and the immoral are allowed to remain in the work is that some of them come from wealthy families who give a lot of money to the ministry/church. So, it appears that it's not a local problem. Bottom line: you don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 2, 2014 1:51:22 GMT -5
Bert, This is what I have witnessed all my life growing up in the Northeast in a POOR family. Money speaks when it comes to MOST, not all WORKERS. My parents were respected, but not favored by the workers because they were poor. Other family on the other hand, were favored because of their money and clout they could have amongst the friends and workers. Spirituality of people has NOTHING to do WITH WEALTH OR POWER. It does not take much faith to live in this world if you have enough money to buy others off. On the other hand it takes a lot of faith to raise a large family without wealth and put your faith and trust in God, to see you through. That is the example my parents left to me and my siblings. An example that I have tried to leave to my children. We might not have what we want, but we have ALWAYS had what we needed. Wealth is not the problem it is the favors handed out because of wealth. Something that I have heard workers condemn other churches for all my life. The other problem I have seen with wealth all my life is, those with wealth can change the rules as they see fit while the poor is driven out for doing the same thing. Why do you think all the things I was raised as being wrong, are now alright. It is the power of money. Divorce and remarry is one of the biggest issue I see in this regard. I have know of friends without money that were not allowed to have a part in meeting after divorce. I have also seen friends with plenty of money allowed to take part and never loose any place with the workers after divorce. Bert is there different rules in the bible for the poor and the wealthy??? Along with being wealthy is also, having come from the RIGHT family. Those are privileges that the average Joe does not enjoy in the Northeast. So Bert, are there any of these problems where you live or is this just a problem in the Northeast USA? Marie I felt saddened reading this post. If the workers behaved like the apostles which they claim to be apostolic. Whatever was given if it had been shared and given out your family would have benefited. I remember a rich daughter similar age to me was treated differently over miniskirts. Rich daughter wasnt rebuked the way another teen whose family were outside. She got roped over the coals. Come to think of it I dont think workers cared about youth very much we got told off more than encouraged
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 9:50:54 GMT -5
Having lived in other parts of the county and gone to meeting. I would say the power of money depends on the overseer. We did have one overseer for a short time when I was a teenager that did not seem as influenced as much by money as AA, CS and BB. Unfortunate he died soon after becoming the overseer. I have seen overseers in other parts of the country that were more concerned with spiritual things then power and money. Unfortunately they are few and far between on this side of the Mississippi because a lot of overseers in the east were raised in the northeast under AA.
I do believe that most workers went into the work for the right reasons, but power and money changed them to the men they are today. I did have the privilege of knowing a most of their parents because of the age of my parents. They had very humble and meek people.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 18:12:50 GMT -5
Here's some homework: itemize every house where Jesus stayed figure out if that household was poor or rich
Here's a starter Zacharius, "make haste and come down for today I must abide at your house." --- rich man Mary and Martha, "Mary took a pound of ointment, very costly..." --- rich or well off, home owner Simon the Pharisee, "If this man knew what manner of woman this is..." --- comfortably well off, home owner
I wonder if Jesus stayed more with well-to-do people because He didn't want to burden the poor of His community?
I know how you people think: If the Workers stayed only with the poorest of the friends then you guys will be screaming how they "burden the poor instead of the rich."
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 3, 2014 18:44:35 GMT -5
Here's some homework: itemize every house where Jesus stayed figure out if that household was poor or rich Here's a starter Zacharius, "make haste and come down for today I must abide at your house." --- rich man Mary and Martha, "Mary took a pound of ointment, very costly..." --- rich or well off, home owner Simon the Pharisee, "If this man knew what manner of woman this is..." --- comfortably well off, home owner I wonder if Jesus stayed more with well-to-do people because He didn't want to burden the poor of His community? I know how you people think: If the Workers stayed only with the poorest of the friends then you guys will be screaming how they "burden the poor instead of the rich." Who is 'you people'? I also think you missed this on the thread about tithing, so thought I would put it here as well. Really curious as to your thoughts about how it is hard to be a Christian: Yes, Jesus said his yoke was "easy" but He himself bore a heavy burden. So too did John the Baptist who lived a life of poverty and paid with his life. And Paul... he celebrated the loss of everything. What is harsh and hard is the road God's people must walk. This is mentioned over and over and over again in the bible. My question was about you personally. As a Christian, what do you find so difficult in your daily life? Loving God, or loving others? Or is it something else? Really curious as to what you consider to be harsh and hard. Especially related to the 'cost' of being a Christ follower.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 20:04:13 GMT -5
Bert, My parents always had a "worker" room in their house even when they had all 12 of us kids at home. That room was put to good use over the years by many workers!! I grew up with the workers spending a week at a time, at our house. That was back before the "worker" needed sperate room and special diets!!!
I really do not think worker stay at wealthy friends house out of concerns for poor friends. They stay there for the "amenities" as one sister let slip during special meeting rounds!!!
Bert I take it that you will defend BAD behavior until the day you die. I will speak out against it till the day I die. You will not convince me of your
point of view and I have no desire to convince you.
Jesus had more concern for the poor in one finger the most workers and friends will EVER have!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 21:04:08 GMT -5
Quote - "Jesus had more concern for the poor in one finger the most workers and friends will EVER have!"
How much money did he give them? How many soup kitchens did he set up? How many homeless did he provide shelter for?
None, zip, zilch, nada....
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Post by kencoolidge on Nov 3, 2014 21:20:24 GMT -5
Here's some homework: itemize every house where Jesus stayed figure out if that household was poor or rich Here's a starter Zacharius, "make haste and come down for today I must abide at your house." --- rich man Mary and Martha, "Mary took a pound of ointment, very costly..." --- rich or well off, home owner Simon the Pharisee, "If this man knew what manner of woman this is..." --- comfortably well off, home owner I wonder if Jesus stayed more with well-to-do people because He didn't want to burden the poor of His community? I know how you people think: If the Workers stayed only with the poorest of the friends then you guys will be screaming how they "burden the poor instead of the rich." Bert Did you mean this story? Luk 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2014 21:23:39 GMT -5
Quote - "Jesus had more concern for the poor in one finger the most workers and friends will EVER have!" How much money did he give them? How many soup kitchens did he set up? How many homeless did he provide shelter for? None, zip, zilch, nada.... But there was no predatory capitalism in those days
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logain
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Post by logain on Nov 3, 2014 22:42:44 GMT -5
Having lived in other parts of the county and gone to meeting. I would say the power of money depends on the overseer. We did have one overseer for a short time when I was a teenager that did not seem as influenced as much by money as AA, CS and BB. Unfortunate he died soon after becoming the overseer. I have seen overseers in other parts of the country that were more concerned with spiritual things then power and money. Unfortunately they are few and far between on this side of the Mississippi because a lot of overseers in the east were raised in the northeast under AA. I do believe that most workers went into the work for the right reasons, but power and money changed them to the men they are today. I did have the privilege of knowing a most of their parents because of the age of my parents. They had very humble and meek people. I would agree that not all overseers (or workers in general) have their influence and efforts effected by money. Some are inclined to be favorable to those with many relatives in the work; some act more favorable or accommodating to those with a long family history in Truth. But wealth (and being generous with it to the right people) does seem to be the most effective way of obtaining favour and influence.
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Post by emy on Nov 3, 2014 23:40:15 GMT -5
A European worker told us that one reason why CSA offenders and the immoral are allowed to remain in the work is that some of them come from wealthy families who give a lot of money to the ministry/church. So, it appears that it's not a local problem. I assume that was something s/he disapproved of?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 8:39:10 GMT -5
Bert, If worker were more like Jesus they would be more concerned about the spiritual health of the friends then the "WEALTH" of the friends. It would not matter what they had for accommodations or what they could be provided for in terms of natural comforts. They would go forth in "FAITH" and allow God's leading where ever it leads them. To those poor in spirit and share their GREAT wealth of spiritual help.
Bert, Please explain to me how you see the workers going forth by "FAITH" now days???
I for the most part see a group of men and women that are taken care of by others that have no care or kindness to show toward their fellow men. If they did they would be out in this world seeking to spread the "Good News" as they like to call it. Most of them would not make it in the world today.
I have heard many of ex workers complain about how tough it is to make a living once they leave the work. Welcome to REAL life. I do not believe God ever intended for his servants to be LAZY AND CARED for. But that is what you have today. A group of entitled workers that have no appreciation for the care the friends offer them.
They are too lazy to care for those they drove out of meeting. You call that "GODLY" I call that selfish.
I will stop my rant. I am just HURT by the LACK of care show by worker when my husband and I always gave them the best we had when they were at our house.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 4, 2014 10:54:41 GMT -5
Here's some homework: itemize every house where Jesus stayed figure out if that household was poor or rich Here's a starter Zacharius, "make haste and come down for today I must abide at your house." --- rich man Mary and Martha, "Mary took a pound of ointment, very costly..." --- rich or well off, home owner Simon the Pharisee, "If this man knew what manner of woman this is..." --- comfortably well off, home owner I wonder if Jesus stayed more with well-to-do people because He didn't want to burden the poor of His community? I know how you people think: If the Workers stayed only with the poorest of the friends then you guys will be screaming how they "burden the poor instead of the rich." Jesus took care of them. Fed them. Taught by example.
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Post by mdm on Nov 4, 2014 13:19:52 GMT -5
A European worker told us that one reason why CSA offenders and the immoral are allowed to remain in the work is that some of them come from wealthy families who give a lot of money to the ministry/church. So, it appears that it's not a local problem. I assume that was something s/he disapproved of? Yes, he is very grieved about it. But he has no freedom to speak out against it. He told us that "it's not safe to talk about these things."
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