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Post by rational on Oct 29, 2014 8:37:27 GMT -5
Have only heard workers mention tithing as being part of the old testament that false religion uses to get money out of its flock. What is false religion? Any religion that does not agree with your beliefs?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 6:13:40 GMT -5
Quote - "Seriously, don't you know the answer to those questions? Here is one question for you, the Ten Commandments are a summary of Old Testament laws, are any of them applicable today's?"
In the OT there were: Ordinances (religious observances) - sacrifices, dietary practices, tithing... Judgments (legal stuff) - inheritance, criminal law, civil law.... Commandments (moral responsibilities) - honesty, fidelity, loving others....
Jesus dispensed with the ordinances and judgments. He made the commandments harsher. There is no place for tithing.
Critics of the bible willingly mix these up, ie judgment on homosexuality often invokes arguments about why we do also sacrifice goats etc..
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Post by bubbles on Oct 30, 2014 6:46:42 GMT -5
Any religion that does not agree with your beliefs? Lol On the contrary. In real life I dont discriminate. I accept people as they are regardless of race, religion or gender. It isnt my job to judge them. I do judge within the realm of Christianity. Eg if someone is teaching another gospel other than Christ or heresy or erroneous teaching
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Post by rational on Oct 30, 2014 8:17:50 GMT -5
Any religion that does not agree with your beliefs? Lol On the contrary. In real life I dont discriminate. I accept people as they are regardless of race, religion or gender. It isnt my job to judge them. I do judge within the realm of Christianity. Eg if someone is teaching another gospel other than Christ or heresy or erroneous teaching So, if someone is teaching a gospel that you believe is heresy or erroneous, a gospel that you do not believe in, you would feel free to judge them?
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 30, 2014 14:01:10 GMT -5
Quote - " Seriously, don't you know the answer to those questions? Here is one question for you, the Ten Commandments are a summary of Old Testament laws, are any of them applicable today's?" In the OT there were: Ordinances (religious observances) - sacrifices, dietary practices, tithing... Judgments (legal stuff) - inheritance, criminal law, civil law.... Commandments (moral responsibilities) - honesty, fidelity, loving others....
Jesus dispensed with the ordinances and judgments. He made the commandments harsher. There is no place for tithing.
Critics of the bible willingly mix these up, ie judgment on homosexuality often invokes arguments about why we do also sacrifice goats etc..
Harsher? Really? Here is a listing of 613 laws followed by Judaism: www.jewfaq.org/613.htmJesus didn't have anything to say about tithing that I can remember, and Paul asked people to set money aside every week. My point is that Jesus made it easier, not harder. Could you explain in your words just how Jesus made the commandments harsher, and why you fee there is no place for tithing? And just for the record, while I believe in giving of money/time/material goods to others..... I don't believe there is any set amount like was set up in the original meaning of tithing. It also wasn't based on money, but was based on what one did for a living. There were some people excluded from tithes, and most people don't understand what tithes were actually used for. They weren't just for 'paying' the priests, and there were at least three different tithes which are recorded in the bible (if I remember right from previous studies I did)
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Post by bubbles on Oct 30, 2014 14:14:35 GMT -5
Lol On the contrary. In real life I dont discriminate. I accept people as they are regardless of race, religion or gender. It isnt my job to judge them. I do judge within the realm of Christianity. Eg if someone is teaching another gospel other than Christ or heresy or erroneous teaching So, if someone is teaching a gospel that you believe is heresy or erroneous, a gospel that you do not believe in, you would feel free to judge them? In a forum like this I would and do. I would also in a local church where there are problems and have. In a local church it would be wisdom clothed in love and via the spirit if revelation. Judge is a harsh word. Discern would be kinder. People who believe in Christ are endeavoring to become better citizens by overcoming their character flaws. Worshipping their Jesus loving their neighbour as themselves. If their teaching is misguided or conflicts with scripture or if they take a scripture too far eg:matt 10 yes I will comment. CSA is a good example. Leaders are not comfortable when people like maja/stevenz approach them with concerns. Giving bible verses to a leader might work and get a response via the conviction of the holy spirit whereas a lot of talking wont. There are clear guidelines in scripture how to deal with problems in the church.
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Post by snow on Oct 30, 2014 17:06:06 GMT -5
Quote - " Seriously, don't you know the answer to those questions? Here is one question for you, the Ten Commandments are a summary of Old Testament laws, are any of them applicable today's?" In the OT there were: Ordinances (religious observances) - sacrifices, dietary practices, tithing... Judgments (legal stuff) - inheritance, criminal law, civil law.... Commandments (moral responsibilities) - honesty, fidelity, loving others....
Jesus dispensed with the ordinances and judgments. He made the commandments harsher. There is no place for tithing.
Critics of the bible willingly mix these up, ie judgment on homosexuality often invokes arguments about why we do also sacrifice goats etc..
Actually you're probably not too far off re the tithing. Jesus was upset that salvation and healing had to be paid for and was trying to reform the priesthood so that it would be freely offered like he was doing. He was upset that some people were too poor to bring anything to the temple and they were being turned away. He felt the priests shouldn't be able to turn away people because what they offered should be free through God. That was one of the reasons why he had a tantrum in the temple and started overturning tables and such. Salvation and healing had become a lucrative business and he was very upset about that.
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Post by snow on Oct 30, 2014 17:46:29 GMT -5
What about the time Jesus praised the poor woman who gave her last mite......... He didn't say people 'couldn't' give money if they wanted to. What he was trying to stop was the mandatory 'tithing' that was going on in the temple. He felt it should be done freely. I imagine he was referring more to her giving her last mite as a good thing because it was done because she wanted to, not because it was required. I am sure that Jesus and the apostles depended on followers for their money and shelter, but it was offered and not demanded as payment for salvation. That is what Jesus was violently opposed to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 0:16:48 GMT -5
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 31, 2014 0:28:32 GMT -5
That's not harsher. It is just reality, and Jesus reminding us of our humanity. Since I think I can honestly state that ALL are guilty of 'thoughts', it reminds us that we all sin and fall short. And, there is no one giving 'freely' if they are relying on their target audience for money, food, clothing, shelter, health care etc. Freely give without strings attached, whether money or any of the above. Obviously free will offerings were discussed, although Paul did exert a bit of pressure to do so. From my double zip bagged Kindle Fire in our hot tub.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 0:52:44 GMT -5
It IS harsher. The new law now stated you can't even be angry or lustful. The old law said you can't harm another, or commit adultery.
And the INTENT of what Jesus meant by "freely give, freely receive" is provided by the context and example of His life. He moved from house to house (yes, moving from one place to another maybe every few days) and being cared for by his hosts. In one sense these early Christians paid nothing, and in another they paid with their total commitment.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 31, 2014 0:59:53 GMT -5
It IS harsher. The new law now stated you can't even be angry or lustful. The old law said you can't harm another, or commit adultery. And the INTENT of what Jesus meant by "freely give, freely receive" is provided by the context and example of His life. He moved from house to house (yes, moving from one place to another maybe every few days) and being cared for by his hosts. In one sense these early Christians paid nothing, and in another they paid with their total commitment. How can it be harsher? As a gentile, the law didn't even pertain to us, so we have no 'old' laws to worry about anyhow. Jesus preached a very simple message that doesn't need interpretation to understand. Teaching, yes, for hearing the message, but all that follows is by our personal convictions. You might find it harsh and hard to be a Christian, but not me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 1:46:00 GMT -5
If you read the NT with all it had to say about the "cost" of the Way, and you find your own experience "easy" then it might pay to reassess things.
Yes, from OT to NT, the moral law became harsher. Jew or Gentile, modern times or ancient, doesn't matter - it's harsher.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 31, 2014 2:34:31 GMT -5
So.... As a Christian, what do you find so difficult in your daily life? Loving God, or loving others?
Or is it something else? Really curious as to what you consider to be harsh and hard. Especially related to the 'cost' of being a Christ follower.
I like His comment about "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 8:09:14 GMT -5
So.... As a Christian, what do you find so difficult in your daily life? Loving God, or loving others? Or is it something else? Really curious as to what you consider to be harsh and hard. Especially related to the 'cost' of being a Christ follower. I like His comment about "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Yes, Jesus said his yoke was "easy" but He himself bore a heavy burden. So too did John the Baptist who lived a life of poverty and paid with his life. And Paul... he celebrated the loss of everything. What is harsh and hard is the road God's people must walk. This is mentioned over and over and over again in the bible.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 31, 2014 10:41:20 GMT -5
So.... As a Christian, what do you find so difficult in your daily life? Loving God, or loving others? Or is it something else? Really curious as to what you consider to be harsh and hard. Especially related to the 'cost' of being a Christ follower. I like His comment about "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Yes, Jesus said his yoke was "easy" but He himself bore a heavy burden. So too did John the Baptist who lived a life of poverty and paid with his life. And Paul... he celebrated the loss of everything. What is harsh and hard is the road God's people must walk. This is mentioned over and over and over again in the bible. My question was about you personally. As a Christian, what do you find so difficult in your daily life? Loving God, or loving others? Or is it something else? Really curious as to what you consider to be harsh and hard. Especially related to the 'cost' of being a Christ follower.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 16:36:43 GMT -5
What does "bearing the cross" mean to you?
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 31, 2014 21:17:53 GMT -5
What does "bearing the cross" mean to you? You have a problem with my question to you? In most conversations, one answers questions before asking thier own.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 23:09:33 GMT -5
What does "bearing the cross" mean to you? You have a problem with my question to you? In most conversations, one answers questions before asking thier own. Well, answering a question with a question can't be too bad - Jesus did it. Bearing of the cross will mean all of the following, and much more... Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. …do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. He said to His disciples, "Offenses will certainly come, but woe to the one they come through! And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. …us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren I am glad when I suffer for you in my body, for I am participating in the sufferings of Christ that continue for his body, the church. Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
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Tithing?
Nov 5, 2014 0:05:25 GMT -5
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Post by nswelshman on Nov 5, 2014 0:05:25 GMT -5
What does "bearing the cross" mean to you? You have a problem with my question to you? In most conversations, one answers questions before asking thier own. Why do you jump to the conclusion that loving is the hard part for Bert? Seems rather pretentious.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 2:25:29 GMT -5
Quote - "Just for balance..."
Are we "balancing" the bible?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 3:00:24 GMT -5
Yes, "balance" here is when you find a confronting verse in the bible, and you then seek a counter-verse to negate it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 5:16:00 GMT -5
I don't dispute that. And maybe, if you feel badly done by with hard experiences then maybe you shouldn't be in the truth.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 5, 2014 5:26:26 GMT -5
I don't dispute that. And maybe, if you feel badly done by with hard experiences then maybe you shouldn't be in the truth. Bert what is the "Truth"?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 5:29:02 GMT -5
That's a question people have asked since time began. Pilot asked it, and left the room without waiting for an answer.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 5, 2014 5:34:30 GMT -5
That's a question people have asked since time began. Pilot asked it, and left the room without waiting for an answer. So what did you mean in your comment to Ross about "truth" ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 5, 2014 5:37:02 GMT -5
I don't dispute that. And maybe, if you feel badly done by with hard experiences then maybe you shouldn't be in the truth. What do you mean by "if you feel badly done by with hard experiences then maybe you shouldn't be in the truth.[/quote]" ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 5:41:46 GMT -5
That's covered in the gospels and the epistles. I can't add any more than that.
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