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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 15:47:00 GMT -5
My thoughts left over from yesterday went to that phrase: "She who is forgiven much loves much". Luke 7:47-"....her sins, which are many are forgiven: for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little."
Do y'all think this is really true? In order to love much we need to sin and be forgiven much? Aren't there people out there who maybe haven't sinned all that much, but are still able to love much?
If it's true the more we sin, the more we love, then why the need to be so perfect and 'sin-free'?
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 23, 2014 15:59:10 GMT -5
My thoughts left over from yesterday went to that phrase: "She who is forgiven much loves much". Luke 7:47-"....her sins, which are many are forgiven: for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Do y'all think this is really true? In order to love much we need to sin and be forgiven much? Aren't there people out there who maybe haven't sinned all that much, but are still able to love much? If it's true the more we sin, the more we love, then why the need to be so perfect and 'sin-free'? Let's take a look at the context here and maybe it would make more sense. Jesus was talking to Simon, a Pharisee. Perhaps a self-righteous Pharisee who was being judgmental of the sinner woman who came to Jesus and was kissing His feet, etc. What point was Jesus really trying to make? I think there is lesson here for everyone: namely, if you think you are not a sinner and if you think your are sin-free, you are seriously mistaken (one). Also, if you think your are somehow BETTER than somebody else, think again. You are a sinner just as much as anyone else. No, maybe your sins are not of the same nature, but your human nature is by nature a sinful one. That may have been a hard point for this Pharisee man to swallow. (two) I don't know if this is the 'correct' interpretation, but bitterbitty, you of all people, being a nurse, know that there is to be no respecter of persons as you are required to give the same tender loving care to all regardless of how "bad" they might be. I think there are people out there who think they are better than others and maybe in many ways they are....but: THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL. [metaphorically speaking]
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2014 16:07:02 GMT -5
My thoughts left over from yesterday went to that phrase: "She who is forgiven much loves much". Luke 7:47-"....her sins, which are many are forgiven: for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Do y'all think this is really true? In order to love much we need to sin and be forgiven much? Aren't there people out there who maybe haven't sinned all that much, but are still able to love much? If it's true the more we sin, the more we love, then why the need to be so perfect and 'sin-free'? Let's take a look at the context here and maybe it would make more sense. Jesus was talking to Simon, a Pharisee. Perhaps a self-righteous Pharisee who was being judgmental of the sinner woman who came to Jesus and was kissing His feet, etc. What point was Jesus really trying to make? I think there is lesson here for everyone: namely, if you think you are not a sinner and if you think your are sin-free, you are seriously mistaken (one). Also, if you think your are somehow BETTER than somebody else, think again. You are a sinner just as much as anyone else. No, maybe your sins are not of the same nature, but your human nature is by nature a sinful one. That may have been a hard point for this Pharisee man to swallow. (two) I don't know if this is the 'correct' interpretation, but bitterbitty, you of all people, being a nurse, know that there is to be no respecter of persons as you are required to give the same tender loving care to all regardless of how "bad" they might be. I think there are people out there who think they are better than others and maybe in many ways they are....but: THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL.
What does that mean?
"THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL."
What is that a metaphor for? (has to be something besides being literal)
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 16:16:21 GMT -5
My thoughts left over from yesterday went to that phrase: "She who is forgiven much loves much". Luke 7:47-"....her sins, which are many are forgiven: for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Do y'all think this is really true? In order to love much we need to sin and be forgiven much? Aren't there people out there who maybe haven't sinned all that much, but are still able to love much? If it's true the more we sin, the more we love, then why the need to be so perfect and 'sin-free'? Let's take a look at the context here and maybe it would make more sense. Jesus was talking to Simon, a Pharisee. Perhaps a self-righteous Pharisee who was being judgmental of the sinner woman who came to Jesus and was kissing His feet, etc. What point was Jesus really trying to make? I think there is lesson here for everyone: namely, if you think you are not a sinner and if you think your are sin-free, you are seriously mistaken (one). Also, if you think your are somehow BETTER than somebody else, think again. You are a sinner just as much as anyone else. No, maybe your sins are not of the same nature, but your human nature is by nature a sinful one. That may have been a hard point for this Pharisee man to swallow. (two) I don't know if this is the 'correct' interpretation, but bitterbitty, you of all people, being a nurse, know that there is to be no respecter of persons as you are required to give the same tender loving care to all regardless of how "bad" they might be. I think there are people out there who think they are better than others and maybe in many ways they are....but: THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL. [metaphorically speaking]
I'd like to know what you mean by that ending phrase too. To me, the reality is that we are not all level, nor is that necessarily the ideal society unless you believe in communism, which as it turns, no matter how badly people want communism to work, there are still different levels of people and people who rise to power over others. We are not really level, are we. I mean, c'mon, get real. Some people are simply more accomplished than others! Should that be something to be ASHAMED of? I believe in God, but I DON'T care for religious leaders putting people down telling them they are of little/no VALUE. This seems contrary to Love, in my view. Yes, it's true as nurses we are to give the same tender loving care to all, but we don't do that by putting people down and by humiliating them AND communicating to them they are of little worth. We do it by lifting people UP. There is a very confusing and confounding message given out by preachers, workers, and religious leaders alike: One is that your soul is priceless, but on the other hand, you're just a bunch of dust (interpreted: dirt). You are NOTHING! So, which one is it? Priceless or worthless?? Can you answer that question?
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 16:25:56 GMT -5
Also, why the big PUSH to be so pure and perfect and righteous if we are all sinners anyways, regardless. Doesn't that take away the INCENTIVE to repent and be cleansed of sin. If we are sinners no matter what we do, what would be the impetus to seek forgiveness and cleansing? I'm not trying to argue, and I didn't start this thread to argue, but it seems to me that no matter what we do, we just end up sinning and are sinners. And to be quite frank, there are some sins that are pleasurable. Why would God instill the ability to feel pleasure and say, "Nope, you can't do that!" I'm just trying to make sense of it as I live in sin everyday. I'm long past the point of feeling ashamed of my nature. IT IS WHAT IT IS. I figure, God made me this way for a reason.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 23, 2014 16:40:48 GMT -5
Also, why the big PUSH to be so pure and perfect and righteous if we are all sinners anyways, regardless. Doesn't that take away the INCENTIVE to repent and be cleansed of sin. If we are sinners no matter what we do, what would be the impetus to seek forgiveness and cleansing? I'm not trying to argue, and I didn't start this thread to argue, but it seems to me that no matter what we do, we just end up sinning and are sinners. And to be quite frank, there are some sins that are pleasurable. Why would God instill the ability to feel pleasure and say, "Nope, you can't do that!" I'm just trying to make sense of it as I live in sin everyday. I'm long past the point of feeling ashamed of my nature. IT IS WHAT IT IS. I figure, God made me this way for a reason. I don't know that I would call it a PUSH per se. Maybe it could be taken that way: ("you need to repent and sin no more, etc."). I would agree there seems to conflicting messages given out. Back to the original Scripture. One more thing I get out of it is "Don't be deceived." You see the Pharisees were very caught up in living pure and righteous, but somehow, they 'missed it'. How could that happen? They were Hebrews, God chosen People, yet, they MISSED IT! They were deceived by their own righteousness and that could happen to anyone. They had gotten away from what it was all about and what it was supposed to be about. There is nothing quite like being given a pardon: no love quite like the kind that is proven with true forgiveness. There are many kinds of love out there, but perhaps the most profound is the unconditional love that is found in forgiveness. It takes it to a different level. It's easy to love people who love us and are easy to love. Far more difficult to love those who are not as loveable. Also, the attitude of self-righteousness being a poor attribute to me has always been a strong feature in Jesus' teachings.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 23, 2014 16:45:32 GMT -5
I'd like to know what you mean by that ending phrase too. To me, the reality is that we are not all level, nor is that necessarily the ideal society unless you believe in communism, which as it turns, no matter how badly people want communism to work, there are still different levels of people and people who rise to power over others. We are not really level, are we. I mean, c'mon, get real. Some people are simply more accomplished than others! Should that be something to be ASHAMED of? I believe in God, but I DON'T care for religious leaders putting people down telling them they are of little/no VALUE. This seems contrary to Love, in my view. Yes, it's true as nurses we are to give the same tender loving care to all, but we don't do that by putting people down and by humiliating them AND communicating to them they are of little worth. We do it by lifting people UP. There is a very confusing and confounding message given out by preachers, workers, and religious leaders alike: One is that your soul is priceless, but on the other hand, you're just a bunch of dust (interpreted: dirt). You are NOTHING! So, which one is it? Priceless or worthless?? Can you answer that question? Well, if you are being subjected to people who tell you you are worthless, I'd say it's time to find another preacher. That is defeatist talk. Did Jesus ever tell anyone they were worthless. So, either your preachers need to find a better way to get the point across and find a way to build up instead of tear down. I never cared for the "shame on you" type of message myself. It's no wonder some people don't like to go to church, if all they are going to be told is how bad they are and bad they will always be regardless of what they do... But, don't you see? The message of Jesus in this particular Scripture is doing the opposite of that. Jesus was LIFTING UP the sinner woman!! Can't you see that? He was lifting her up, not putting her down. Any preacher that puts people down for sinning is simply going against this teaching of Jesus.
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Post by Mary on Oct 23, 2014 16:48:15 GMT -5
I appreciate your posts bitterbelly but why is it that every time you write kurtzphil69 responses almost immediately. The only time he writes is to respond immediately to your posts. Kind of weird!! !! Talking to yourself??
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 17:08:28 GMT -5
I'd like to know what you mean by that ending phrase too. To me, the reality is that we are not all level, nor is that necessarily the ideal society unless you believe in communism, which as it turns, no matter how badly people want communism to work, there are still different levels of people and people who rise to power over others. We are not really level, are we. I mean, c'mon, get real. Some people are simply more accomplished than others! Should that be something to be ASHAMED of? I believe in God, but I DON'T care for religious leaders putting people down telling them they are of little/no VALUE. This seems contrary to Love, in my view. Yes, it's true as nurses we are to give the same tender loving care to all, but we don't do that by putting people down and by humiliating them AND communicating to them they are of little worth. We do it by lifting people UP. There is a very confusing and confounding message given out by preachers, workers, and religious leaders alike: One is that your soul is priceless, but on the other hand, you're just a bunch of dust (interpreted: dirt). You are NOTHING! So, which one is it? Priceless or worthless?? Can you answer that question? Well, if you are being subjected to people who tell you you are worthless, I'd say it's time to find another preacher. That is defeatist talk. Did Jesus ever tell anyone they were worthless. So, either your preachers need to find a better way to get the point across and find a way to build up instead of tear down. I never cared for the "shame on you" type of message myself. It's no wonder some people don't like to go to church, if all they are going to be told is how bad they are and bad they will always be regardless of what they do... But, don't you see? The message of Jesus in this particular Scripture is doing the opposite of that. Jesus was LIFTING UP the sinner woman!! Can't you see that? He was lifting her up, not putting her down. Any preacher that puts people down for sinning is simply going against this teaching of Jesus. I like to play devil's advocate sometimes and ask searching questions...but I'm not really trying to be contrary or make it sound as though I am suffering somehow by being 'put down' by preachers. I'm not. Preachers have to preach about something, don't they? They need subject matter, afterall. I just don't understand this "all level" kind of talk. But if we were to be all on a level playing field or whatever the best way to make people all level is to lift those up that need to be lifted up; not put other people down. Granted, some people take correction as a put down and there are plenty of places in the Bible that preach AGAINST pride. Pride has to be dealt with, for sure because it is like a blockade to spiritual progress. But the best way to correct a proud person is not by humiliation. At least, I don't think humiliation is very loving...
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 17:10:13 GMT -5
I appreciate your posts bitterbelly but why is it that every time you write kurtzphil69 responses almost immediately. The only time he writes is to respond immediately to your posts. Kind of weird!!!! Talking to yourself?? Mary, You give a compliment and a put down in the same post. Isn't that kind of weird?
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 23, 2014 17:27:12 GMT -5
Everybody's weird and everybody's a sinner. Anyone who thinks they aren't is deceived.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 17:34:39 GMT -5
I appreciate your posts bitterbelly but why is it that every time you write kurtzphil69 responses almost immediately. The only time he writes is to respond immediately to your posts. Kind of weird!! !! Talking to yourself?? It is supposed to be an amusing performance by the same actor. Something like satire, I presume. I suspected it after a little while.
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 23, 2014 18:16:30 GMT -5
Everybody's weird and everybody's a sinner. Anyone who thinks they aren't is deceived. Shhhh. Don't tell anybody that! I'm normal and you aren't. End of discussion! Seriously, I've learned that sometimes when we don't understand something or someone we tend to label them/it as 'weird'. But, given the dictionary's definition of weird, I cannot take it as something bad. However, Mary's use of weird here is a put down, which just surprises me is all, because I thought she was a good Christian woman.
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Post by Mary on Oct 23, 2014 18:29:16 GMT -5
It's just that you were confusing me too much. I was slow in catching on but I like the actor part. I noticed the pictures were similar but was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Today it was too much to grasp.
Me a sinner - nah, you got the wrong person. Second thoughts - being the good Christian woman I am and if God says I am then I must be. Thanks for pointing that out.
Go well and bless ya...
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 23, 2014 18:34:07 GMT -5
One interpretation of THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL is all stand on the same ground with no bias as to status in this life. JMO ken
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Post by xna on Oct 23, 2014 20:46:43 GMT -5
One interpretation of THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL is all stand on the same ground with no bias as to status in this life. JMO ken I noticed the bible is much taken with; "Who's your daddy record keeping". If all of mankind was truly born on equal ground then there would be a lot less begat's, and good tribe - bad tribe tracking in the good book. JMT
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 23, 2014 22:38:42 GMT -5
One interpretation of THE GROUND AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS IS LEVEL is all stand on the same ground with no bias as to status in this life. JMO ken Thanks for your post, ken and that is basically how I take the sentence as well. Perhaps I should give credit where credit is due...then again if we are all on level ground, does anyone get the credit? That seems a bit silly though... I first heard that sentence, "The ground at the foot of the Cross is level", from a lady who was confiding in me some about her (often terrible) childhood. She told me about some of the things her mother did to her. It was pretty horrid. This same lady was also distraught because she believed that she was being treated unfairly because she was mentally ill. And I agreed with her that the mentally ill are often written off unfairly, labeled, ostracized, etc. So, after she told about these awful things her mother did (I won't go into detail), I asked her, "So, how is your relationship with your mother today? Do you still talk to her and stuff?"
If she had told me that she and her mother were not on good terms it would not have surprised me at all and I probably wouldn't blame her for it. But how she answered took me by surprise-She said, "Well, the ground at the foot of the Cross is level, and we are all sinners. I had to find a way to forgive her, so when I thought of the ground being level, it helped me find a way to forgive. I did forgive her and we get along okay now. She's my mom and I love her, despite it all."
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2014 22:50:56 GMT -5
Everybody's weird and everybody's a sinner. Anyone who thinks they aren't is deceived. I am not a "sinner" nor I am being "deceived."
I believe that people who think that they are "sinners," are the ones being "deceived" & manipulated into being controlled.
It is the biggest hoax of our time.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 24, 2014 0:19:56 GMT -5
My thoughts left over from yesterday went to that phrase: "She who is forgiven much loves much". Luke 7:47-"....her sins, which are many are forgiven: for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Do y'all think this is really true? In order to love much we need to sin and be forgiven much? Aren't there people out there who maybe haven't sinned all that much, but are still able to love much? If it's true the more we sin, the more we love, then why the need to be so perfect and 'sin-free'? Yes I do BB. Ive met a number of bornagain people who identify with that scripture. One person who stands out was a ex black power or mongrel mob member. (There were one of each dont remember which) He called himself 'gumboot evangelist'.
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