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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 10:47:25 GMT -5
i think over the last 10 years or so i have done a pretty good job following Christs way. sorry i'm not a do nothing Christian i just read in luke 19 the story of the servant that did nothing with the 1 talent the king gave him i think thats a fair story on that we are suppose to be doing SOMETHING while here on earth. there is also the story of the tree that bore bad fruit/no fruit that was cast into the fire also hinting at we are to do SOMETHING... And what IS Christ's way, if you had to describe it to someone who didn't know??? Christ of course said He Himself was the way...our literal path from earth to heaven. Without His death and resurrection, we would have absolutely no way of getting there, but He bridged the gap between us, a sinful human, and a holy God! So I'm assuming when you say "Christ's way" you mean something other than Christ Himself, and mean a specific manner in which we are to live or certain things we are supposed to do...
Of course there are things we are called to do...good works that God prepared in advance for us to do. We're called to obey, to repent, to forgive, to love, etc... But of course, those things have nothing to do with saving us...only one thing could save us and scripture makes it VERY clear it's not our works! Ephesians 2:8-10. Salvation is a free gift entirely of God's grace (it is free to us, but of course it was not cheap...it cost God greatly!). Salvation is NOT a reward, as if we ever could do anything to deserve it!!! It took me a LONG time to learn that, but it is a VERY important thing to learn! Grace is God's unmerited love and favor without a single regard to our value, worth, etc...
All of what you view as success in following "Christ's way" is looked upon by God as filthy rags...which of course you would never want to stand before God wearing! Isaiah 64:6. The only thing you can stand before God acceptably in is the robes of righteousness, which scripture tells us HE provides for us. Isaiah 61:10. Then we are able to stand before God without fault and blameless. Jude 24&25. So how do we attain those "garments of salvation and robes of righteousness"? We are made righteous when we trust in Jesus to save us (not ourselves and our works, not our church membership, etc...) and His righteousness is imputed to us...righteousness comes to us by NOTHING else!!! Salvation is God's work, not ours...and the work is already finished, as Jesus' last words from the cross confirm! It is a gift from God that glorifies Him as the giver, not us as the receiver. Some helpful verses to read: Romans 3:21&22, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 7:25, all of Romans 5. Here is a great link containing multiple citations from scripture re: Christ's righteousness being imputed to us: www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/torreys-topical-textbook/righteousness-imputed.html
So what do you think this SOMETHING that we are to be doing is exactly, and what role does it play in our salvation???
**I always worry that my tone will not come across well when I converse online...I really am asking because I'm genuinely curious as to what you think/believe. Not trying to be combative or accusatory...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 14:30:06 GMT -5
i think over the last 10 years or so i have done a pretty good job following Christs way. sorry i'm not a do nothing Christian i just read in luke 19 the story of the servant that did nothing with the 1 talent the king gave him i think thats a fair story on that we are suppose to be doing SOMETHING while here on earth. there is also the story of the tree that bore bad fruit/no fruit that was cast into the fire also hinting at we are to do SOMETHING... And what IS Christ's way, if you had to describe it to someone who didn't know??? Christ of course said He Himself was the way...our literal path from earth to heaven. Without His death and resurrection, we would have absolutely no way of getting there, but He bridged the gap between us, a sinful human, and a holy God! So I'm assuming when you say "Christ's way" you mean something other than Christ Himself, and mean a specific manner in which we are to live or certain things we are supposed to do...
Of course there are things we are called to do...good works that God prepared in advance for us to do. We're called to obey, to repent, to forgive, to love, etc... But of course, those things have nothing to do with saving us...only one thing could save us and scripture makes it VERY clear it's not our works! Ephesians 2:8-10. Salvation is a free gift entirely of God's grace (it is free to us, but of course it was not cheap...it cost God greatly!). Salvation is NOT a reward, as if we ever could do anything to deserve it!!! It took me a LONG time to learn that, but it is a VERY important thing to learn! Grace is God's unmerited love and favor without a single regard to our value, worth, etc...
All of what you view as success in following "Christ's way" is looked upon by God as filthy rags...which of course you would never want to stand before God wearing! Isaiah 64:6. The only thing you can stand before God acceptably in is the robes of righteousness, which scripture tells us HE provides for us. Isaiah 61:10. Then we are able to stand before God without fault and blameless. Jude 24&25. So how do we attain those "garments of salvation and robes of righteousness"? We are made righteous when we trust in Jesus to save us (not ourselves and our works, not our church membership, etc...) and His righteousness is imputed to us...righteousness comes to us by NOTHING else!!! Salvation is God's work, not ours...and the work is already finished, as Jesus' last words from the cross confirm! It is a gift from God that glorifies Him as the giver, not us as the receiver. Some helpful verses to read: Romans 3:21&22, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 7:25, all of Romans 5. Here is a great link containing multiple citations from scripture re: Christ's righteousness being imputed to us: www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/torreys-topical-textbook/righteousness-imputed.html
So what do you think this SOMETHING that we are to be doing is exactly, and what role does it play in our salvation???
**I always worry that my tone will not come across well when I converse online...I really am asking because I'm genuinely curious as to what you think/believe. Not trying to be combative or accusatory...
i really dont want to re-type the whole gospel story but i will show you the following: Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. both john the baptisit and jesus spoke those words and they mean something or they wouldn't have said them..you must bring forth good fruit what is good fruit? the following: Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. this is Christs way...and so many more things... so if you don't produce SOMETHING you will suffer for it...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 14:44:09 GMT -5
And what IS Christ's way, if you had to describe it to someone who didn't know??? Christ of course said He Himself was the way...our literal path from earth to heaven. Without His death and resurrection, we would have absolutely no way of getting there, but He bridged the gap between us, a sinful human, and a holy God! So I'm assuming when you say "Christ's way" you mean something other than Christ Himself, and mean a specific manner in which we are to live or certain things we are supposed to do...
Of course there are things we are called to do...good works that God prepared in advance for us to do. We're called to obey, to repent, to forgive, to love, etc... But of course, those things have nothing to do with saving us...only one thing could save us and scripture makes it VERY clear it's not our works! Ephesians 2:8-10. Salvation is a free gift entirely of God's grace (it is free to us, but of course it was not cheap...it cost God greatly!). Salvation is NOT a reward, as if we ever could do anything to deserve it!!! It took me a LONG time to learn that, but it is a VERY important thing to learn! Grace is God's unmerited love and favor without a single regard to our value, worth, etc...
All of what you view as success in following "Christ's way" is looked upon by God as filthy rags...which of course you would never want to stand before God wearing! Isaiah 64:6. The only thing you can stand before God acceptably in is the robes of righteousness, which scripture tells us HE provides for us. Isaiah 61:10. Then we are able to stand before God without fault and blameless. Jude 24&25. So how do we attain those "garments of salvation and robes of righteousness"? We are made righteous when we trust in Jesus to save us (not ourselves and our works, not our church membership, etc...) and His righteousness is imputed to us...righteousness comes to us by NOTHING else!!! Salvation is God's work, not ours...and the work is already finished, as Jesus' last words from the cross confirm! It is a gift from God that glorifies Him as the giver, not us as the receiver. Some helpful verses to read: Romans 3:21&22, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 7:25, all of Romans 5. Here is a great link containing multiple citations from scripture re: Christ's righteousness being imputed to us: www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/torreys-topical-textbook/righteousness-imputed.html
So what do you think this SOMETHING that we are to be doing is exactly, and what role does it play in our salvation???
**I always worry that my tone will not come across well when I converse online...I really am asking because I'm genuinely curious as to what you think/believe. Not trying to be combative or accusatory...
i really dont want to re-type the whole gospel story but i will show you the following: Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. both john the baptisit and jesus spoke those words and they mean something or they wouldn't have said them..you must bring forth good fruit what is good fruit? the following: Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. this is Christs way...and so many more things... so if you don't produce SOMETHING you will suffer for it... So how does one produce those things...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance...? I understand if you don't have the time, but I would like to hear you elaborate more on "Christ's way" and what that means to you. Also, if you had to share the gospel with someone in just a few minutes, as concisely and yet as thoroughly as possible, I would like to hear what you would say.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 15:06:19 GMT -5
i really dont want to re-type the whole gospel story but i will show you the following: Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. both john the baptisit and jesus spoke those words and they mean something or they wouldn't have said them..you must bring forth good fruit what is good fruit? the following: Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. this is Christs way...and so many more things... so if you don't produce SOMETHING you will suffer for it... So how does one produce those things...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance...? I understand if you don't have the time, but I would like to hear you elaborate more on "Christ's way" and what that means to you. Also, if you had to share the gospel with someone in just a few minutes, as concisely and yet as thoroughly as possible, I would like to hear what you would say.....
by living those things out through ones life... Christ way is that he LIVED the gospel he just didn't appear and stood around doing nothing, we are to be the same we are to be active in the truth proving Christ is in our lives...1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. i would simply say Christ came to earth to prove the father right and to extend his mercy on us and give us salvation through Christ sacrifice on the cross and that God loves us and wants everyone to be saved through his son. i am not a worker you see so i am not as eloquent as one might be....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 15:34:43 GMT -5
So how does one produce those things...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance...? I understand if you don't have the time, but I would like to hear you elaborate more on "Christ's way" and what that means to you. Also, if you had to share the gospel with someone in just a few minutes, as concisely and yet as thoroughly as possible, I would like to hear what you would say.....
by living those things out through ones life... Christ way is that he LIVED the gospel he just didn't appear and stood around doing nothing, we are to be the same we are to be active in the truth proving Christ is in our lives...1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. i would simply say Christ came to earth to prove the father right and to extend his mercy on us and give us salvation through Christ sacrifice on the cross and that God loves us and wants everyone to be saved through his son. i am not a worker you see so i am not as eloquent as one might be.... Moses didn't think he was eloquent either, but with God's power, he turned out to be a very effective speaker! Eloquence isn't necessarily a requirement for one to minister to people...certainly not all workers/ministers are eloquent, to say the least... And just because someone IS eloquent doesn't mean what they're saying is correct...
I guess I'm not understanding your explanation of HOW we produce the Fruit of the Spirit in our lives. So we simply WANT love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc...and can just conjure them up on our own? The fact that it is called the Fruit of the Spirit is telling, I think. Jesus tells us in John 15 how we can bear fruit, in verse 5. It's by remaining in Him, because apart from Him we can do nothing. So it's not just that we TRY to love people to the best of our ability, or TRY to be joyful, etc... When we commit our lives to Christ and He becomes our personal Lord and Savior, and the Holy Spirit indwells us (Ephesians 1:13&14, Romans 8:9), the natural result is that this fruit is produced in us. Because that's the Holy Spirit's work, to conform us to the image of Jesus! The result of our bearing fruit is that God is glorified and others are brought to Christ.
Simply put, the Fruit of the Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit Himself being present in your life. The verses preceding those verses in Galatians 5 tell us what kind of fruit we bring when we're just on our own (vs. 19&20). It's not pretty. "Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." Our human, fleshly nature just produces fruit that reflects that nature...while the Holy Spirit in us produces fruit that reflects His nature, which is the very nature of Christ!
Obviously no Christian is going to demonstrate all parts of the Fruit of the Spirit at all times. But by the Holy Spirit's power and with His help, we can oppose our human natures and progressively grow and allow the Holy Spirit to produce more and more fruit in us!
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