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Post by Lee on Oct 14, 2014 21:09:09 GMT -5
I’ve argued that Jesus put a check on our tendency to personify God. I might also argue that he encouraged and accelerated our tendency to personify God by revealing God as someone who loved us, or at any rate, as being motivated, fundamentally, by love. We humans came to like ourselves better; we became individuals as never before, and we gave thanks to God.
The passion of loves that abound in the modern world is the mark of Christianity on it. Narcissism on the other hand, self love’s vile distortion has come to abound as well. I guess its a good problem to have.
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Post by Lee on Oct 14, 2014 21:24:36 GMT -5
So what's the word on prayer with reference to Lee Harmon's book? Is it something like 'prayer doesn't change God's mind' as some are disposed to think? Rather prayer is willing and wanting according to his will? IMO the best form of prayer is "doing something about it." Here is the quote from Lee's book. I've finished many hikes wondering why I'm so ordinary and boring in day-to-day life. It is my nature, or is it a condition? Either way, I enjoy those times of "breath-inspired prayer".
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Post by Lee on Oct 14, 2014 21:32:40 GMT -5
Dmmichgood You are incorrect. Worship praise came after recieving the lord.In fact it happened for me as a child those things came later. When I look back standing in a mission to profess was really just informing others what I had done yrs before. As a small child. Looking back the reasoning for children not to 'make their choice' is nonsence. Children are far more asute than we give them credit for. That is only your own take on the subject & not what I meant.
Those "rituals of worship" in any religion is a psychological factor that makes people feel good. The being in a group where everyone believes the same thing, whether true or not, gives people a sense of community & gives them a sense of well being.
If people could only understand that it is a psychological factor that causes them to feel good, maybe, just maybe they can also understand there are some of us who don't need any religious belief in order to have equally enriched lives.
I feel so much better to know now that my psychological needs are so ordinary and unimportant as if I could resolve them with a pill. What makes you think psychological needs aren't spiritual needs, present within us by virtue of our design. Notice, I wrote 'design'.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 5:02:35 GMT -5
Dmmichgood You are incorrect. Worship praise came after recieving the lord.In fact it happened for me as a child those things came later. When I look back standing in a mission to profess was really just informing others what I had done yrs before. As a small child. Looking back the reasoning for children not to 'make their choice' is nonsence. Children are far more asute than we give them credit for. That is only your own take on the subject & not what I meant.
Those "rituals of worship" in any religion is a psychological factor that makes people feel good. The being in a group where everyone believes the same thing, whether true or not, gives people a sense of community & gives them a sense of well being.
If people could only understand that it is a psychological factor that causes them to feel good, maybe, just maybe they can also understand there are some of us who don't need any religious belief in order to have equally enriched lives.
I can only speak for me. Firstly it is a spiritual connection between a persons heart and mind with their spirit. I didnt know about praise and worship as a 2x2. The first church I went to 3yrs after leaving sang a lot of praise songs. I loved it would put tapes on at home and sing along while doing house work. My life changed. I frequently praised him with my mouth. I was lead to another church and they did praise and worship. I did a bible study on it for myself to understand what happens when we do this. In the old testament it talks about "entering his courts with thanksgiving and his gates with praise." In Revelations it talks about what happens when we pray. Our prayers go up to heaven where Jesus is seated on the right hand of the father. Under the throne are large bowls of incense. As the prayers go up the incense goes up to the throne and Jesus is glorified. When Jesus is glorified the father is glorified. Another dynamic happens. When the godhead is glorified in praise and worship the presence of God increases around those worshiping. The presence of God becomes tangible, felt and this is why sometimes it can become so poiynant powerful people react in tears etc. A lot can happen when this dynamic takes place. I dont understand it all but I know this works and is very real to people who worship. Just one thing. The only reason I go to a church. Is to worship. I wouldnt go for any other reason. Not to get fed nor for fellowship. Only for worship. The other things are benefits.
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Post by matisse on Oct 18, 2014 9:14:09 GMT -5
I know I am not rational or DMG, but I am interested in your question. It seems, at first reading, a question about the evolution of the human brain vis-a-vis The Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is nothing about the Second Law that prevents one part of a closed system from getting more ordered, as long as another part of the system is getting more disordered. I suspect you already know this....is there more to the question that I have missed? Matisse, my sincerest apologies, no slight intended. I had been away from the thread for several days and the question came to mind as I reflected on some of their recent posts. I do apologize to you and others for the unnecessarily restrictive structure of my post. Yes, I have a passing familiarity with the 2nd law but admit to great confusion as to precisely what would constitute the "system", I guess the entire universe, but just this universe or all universes, my mind turns to mush. I also find my perception of directionality, from primordial soup to contemplation of bosons and 11-dimensional space, truly tests my comprehension of the 2nd law. Any evidence based analysis is most welcome. I'm pretty sure Maxwell's Demon has been disposed of, so I am interested in learning more about recent insights. Regarding the "System", I think it is a safe first approximation in a TMB board level discussion to consider the present state earth's solar system to be the thermodynamic system in which the human brain developed. The earth is not energetically isolated; the sun provides a continuous influx of energy to one part of the earth or another. The influx of energy is transformed into the myriad forms of "work" necessary to maintain the non-equilibrium states of living systems. Does this speak to your question? I expect that you already understand this and wonder if you are asking something different.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 18, 2014 19:54:34 GMT -5
Rational or DMG, might either of you be able to explain entropy vis a vis the evolution of consciousness? Thanks. I know I am not rational or DMG, but I am interested in your question. It seems, at first reading, a question about the evolution of the human brain vis-a-vis The Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is nothing about the Second Law that prevents one part of a closed system from getting more ordered, as long as another part of the system is getting more disordered. I suspect you already know this....is there more to the question that I have missed? Have you seen the movie 'Lucy?'
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 0:02:15 GMT -5
I know I am not rational or DMG, but I am interested in your question. It seems, at first reading, a question about the evolution of the human brain vis-a-vis The Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is nothing about the Second Law that prevents one part of a closed system from getting more ordered, as long as another part of the system is getting more disordered. I suspect you already know this....is there more to the question that I have missed? Have you seen the movie 'Lucy?' No, I have not. Link
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 19, 2014 1:27:17 GMT -5
That is only your own take on the subject & not what I meant.
Those "rituals of worship" in any religion is a psychological factor that makes people feel good. The being in a group where everyone believes the same thing, whether true or not, gives people a sense of community & gives them a sense of well being.
If people could only understand that it is a psychological factor that causes them to feel good, maybe, just maybe they can also understand there are some of us who don't need any religious belief in order to have equally enriched lives.
I can only speak for me. Firstly it is a spiritual connection between a persons heart and mind with their spirit. I didnt know about praise and worship as a 2x2. The first church I went to 3yrs after leaving sang a lot of praise songs. I loved it would put tapes on at home and sing along while doing house work. My life changed. I frequently praised him with my mouth. I was lead to another church and they did praise and worship. I did a bible study on it for myself to understand what happens when we do this. In the old testament it talks about "entering his courts with thanksgiving and his gates with praise." In Revelations it talks about what happens when we pray. Our prayers go up to heaven where Jesus is seated on the right hand of the father. Under the throne are large bowls of incense. As the prayers go up the incense goes up to the throne and Jesus is glorified. When Jesus is glorified the father is glorified. Another dynamic happens. When the godhead is glorified in praise and worship the presence of God increases around those worshiping. The presence of God becomes tangible, felt and this is why sometimes it can become so poiynant powerful people react in tears etc. A lot can happen when this dynamic takes place. I dont understand it all but I know this works and is very real to people who worship. Just one thing. The only reason I go to a church. Is to worship. I wouldnt go for any other reason. Not to get fed nor for fellowship. Only for worship. The other things are benefits. That is what a I meant about the psychological factors that cause some people to feel good about the certain things that move us & make them feel "good."
I just wish that those who believe that their feelings are from a "god," could understand there are some of us who don't need a belief in some "god" in order to have equally enriched lives.
I wish that people who criticize we atheists, could give us the benefit of understanding we also are human beings who can be moved to feel "good" when we see a lovely sunset, a fantastic piece of art, hear a great concert.
Furthermore, that they can understand that we don't have to believe in any supernatural being in order to do so.
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Post by rational on Oct 19, 2014 10:58:40 GMT -5
.ƚnɘɿɘʇʇib ǫniʜƚɘmoƨ ǫniʞƨɒ ɘɿɒ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow bnɒ ƨiʜƚ bnɒƚƨɿɘbnu ybɒɘɿlɒ uoy ƚɒʜƚ ƚɔɘqxɘ Iqƨdn& ␚noiƚƨɘup ɿuoy oƚ ʞɒɘqƨ ƨiʜƚ ƨɘoᗡ .ƨmɘƚƨyƨ ǫnivil ʇo ƨɘƚɒƚƨ muiɿdiliupɘ-non ɘʜƚ niɒƚniɒm oƚ yɿɒƨƨɘɔɘn "ʞɿow" ʇo ƨmɿoʇ bɒiɿym ɘʜƚ oƚni bɘmɿoʇƨnɒɿƚ ƨi yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ɘʜTqƨdn& .ɿɘʜƚonɒ ɿo ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜƚ ʇo ƚɿɒq ɘno oƚ yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ƨuouniƚnoɔ ɒ ƨɘbivoɿq nuƨ ɘʜƚ bɘƚɒloƨi yllɒɔiƚɘǫɿɘnɘ ƚon ƨi ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜTqƨdn& .bɘqolɘvɘb niɒɿd nɒmuʜ ɘʜƚ ʜɔiʜw ni mɘƚƨyƨ ɔimɒnybomɿɘʜƚ ɘʜƚ ɘd oƚ mɘƚƨyƨ ɿɒloƨ ƨ'ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘƚɒƚƨ ƚnɘƨɘɿq ɘʜƚ ɿɘbiƨnoɔ oƚ noiƨƨuɔƨib lɘvɘl bɿɒod ᙠMT ɒ ni noiƚɒmixoɿqqɒ ƚƨɿiʇ ɘʇɒƨ ɒ ƨi ƚi ʞniʜƚ I ,"mɘƚƨyƧ" ɘʜƚ ǫnibɿɒǫɘЯ !ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 11:08:51 GMT -5
.ƚnɘɿɘʇʇib ǫniʜƚɘmoƨ ǫniʞƨɒ ɘɿɒ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow bnɒ ƨiʜƚ bnɒƚƨɿɘbnu ybɒɘɿlɒ uoy ƚɒʜƚ ƚɔɘqxɘ Iqƨdn& ␚noiƚƨɘup ɿuoy oƚ ʞɒɘqƨ ƨiʜƚ ƨɘoᗡ .ƨmɘƚƨyƨ ǫnivil ʇo ƨɘƚɒƚƨ muiɿdiliupɘ-non ɘʜƚ niɒƚniɒm oƚ yɿɒƨƨɘɔɘn "ʞɿow" ʇo ƨmɿoʇ bɒiɿym ɘʜƚ oƚni bɘmɿoʇƨnɒɿƚ ƨi yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ɘʜTqƨdn& .ɿɘʜƚonɒ ɿo ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜƚ ʇo ƚɿɒq ɘno oƚ yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ƨuouniƚnoɔ ɒ ƨɘbivoɿq nuƨ ɘʜƚ bɘƚɒloƨi yllɒɔiƚɘǫɿɘnɘ ƚon ƨi ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜTqƨdn& .bɘqolɘvɘb niɒɿd nɒmuʜ ɘʜƚ ʜɔiʜw ni mɘƚƨyƨ ɔimɒnybomɿɘʜƚ ɘʜƚ ɘd oƚ mɘƚƨyƨ ɿɒloƨ ƨ'ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘƚɒƚƨ ƚnɘƨɘɿq ɘʜƚ ɿɘbiƨnoɔ oƚ noiƨƨuɔƨib lɘvɘl bɿɒod ᙠMT ɒ ni noiƚɒmixoɿqqɒ ƚƨɿiʇ ɘʇɒƨ ɒ ƨi ƚi ʞniʜƚ I ,"mɘƚƨyƧ" ɘʜƚ ǫnibɿɒǫɘЯ !ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ This looks like devil talk to me.
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 11:15:01 GMT -5
.ƚnɘɿɘʇʇib ǫniʜƚɘmoƨ ǫniʞƨɒ ɘɿɒ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow bnɒ ƨiʜƚ bnɒƚƨɿɘbnu ybɒɘɿlɒ uoy ƚɒʜƚ ƚɔɘqxɘ Iqƨdn& ␚noiƚƨɘup ɿuoy oƚ ʞɒɘqƨ ƨiʜƚ ƨɘoᗡ .ƨmɘƚƨyƨ ǫnivil ʇo ƨɘƚɒƚƨ muiɿdiliupɘ-non ɘʜƚ niɒƚniɒm oƚ yɿɒƨƨɘɔɘn "ʞɿow" ʇo ƨmɿoʇ bɒiɿym ɘʜƚ oƚni bɘmɿoʇƨnɒɿƚ ƨi yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ɘʜTqƨdn& .ɿɘʜƚonɒ ɿo ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜƚ ʇo ƚɿɒq ɘno oƚ yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ƨuouniƚnoɔ ɒ ƨɘbivoɿq nuƨ ɘʜƚ bɘƚɒloƨi yllɒɔiƚɘǫɿɘnɘ ƚon ƨi ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜTqƨdn& .bɘqolɘvɘb niɒɿd nɒmuʜ ɘʜƚ ʜɔiʜw ni mɘƚƨyƨ ɔimɒnybomɿɘʜƚ ɘʜƚ ɘd oƚ mɘƚƨyƨ ɿɒloƨ ƨ'ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘƚɒƚƨ ƚnɘƨɘɿq ɘʜƚ ɿɘbiƨnoɔ oƚ noiƨƨuɔƨib lɘvɘl bɿɒod ᙠMT ɒ ni noiƚɒmixoɿqqɒ ƚƨɿiʇ ɘʇɒƨ ɒ ƨi ƚi ʞniʜƚ I ,"mɘƚƨyƧ" ɘʜƚ ǫnibɿɒǫɘЯ !ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ From inside earth? Venus?
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Post by faune on Oct 19, 2014 11:17:04 GMT -5
Have you seen the movie 'Lucy?' No, I have not. Link Matisse ~ Thanks for the review of Lucy. That sounds like an interesting movie to see in the future.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 19, 2014 11:18:25 GMT -5
.ƚnɘɿɘʇʇib ǫniʜƚɘmoƨ ǫniʞƨɒ ɘɿɒ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow bnɒ ƨiʜƚ bnɒƚƨɿɘbnu ybɒɘɿlɒ uoy ƚɒʜƚ ƚɔɘqxɘ Iqƨdn& ␚noiƚƨɘup ɿuoy oƚ ʞɒɘqƨ ƨiʜƚ ƨɘoᗡ .ƨmɘƚƨyƨ ǫnivil ʇo ƨɘƚɒƚƨ muiɿdiliupɘ-non ɘʜƚ niɒƚniɒm oƚ yɿɒƨƨɘɔɘn "ʞɿow" ʇo ƨmɿoʇ bɒiɿym ɘʜƚ oƚni bɘmɿoʇƨnɒɿƚ ƨi yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ɘʜTqƨdn& .ɿɘʜƚonɒ ɿo ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜƚ ʇo ƚɿɒq ɘno oƚ yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ƨuouniƚnoɔ ɒ ƨɘbivoɿq nuƨ ɘʜƚ bɘƚɒloƨi yllɒɔiƚɘǫɿɘnɘ ƚon ƨi ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜTqƨdn& .bɘqolɘvɘb niɒɿd nɒmuʜ ɘʜƚ ʜɔiʜw ni mɘƚƨyƨ ɔimɒnybomɿɘʜƚ ɘʜƚ ɘd oƚ mɘƚƨyƨ ɿɒloƨ ƨ'ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘƚɒƚƨ ƚnɘƨɘɿq ɘʜƚ ɿɘbiƨnoɔ oƚ noiƨƨuɔƨib lɘvɘl bɿɒod ᙠMT ɒ ni noiƚɒmixoɿqqɒ ƚƨɿiʇ ɘʇɒƨ ɒ ƨi ƚi ʞniʜƚ I ,"mɘƚƨyƧ" ɘʜƚ ǫnibɿɒǫɘЯ !ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ Lol..having fun? Care to decode
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 11:21:40 GMT -5
!ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ Lol..having fun? Care to decode Read from bottom to top, backwards, and fill in missing letters that may or may not constitute a hidden message!
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Post by bubbles on Oct 19, 2014 11:27:26 GMT -5
Lol..having fun? Care to decode Read from bottom to top, backwards, and fill in missing letters that may or may not constitute a hidden message! I did but looked like no ...ok il try again
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Post by bubbles on Oct 19, 2014 11:29:35 GMT -5
.ƚnɘɿɘʇʇib ǫniʜƚɘmoƨ ǫniʞƨɒ ɘɿɒ uoy ʇi ɿɘbnow bnɒ ƨiʜƚ bnɒƚƨɿɘbnu ybɒɘɿlɒ uoy ƚɒʜƚ ƚɔɘqxɘ Iqƨdn& ␚noiƚƨɘup ɿuoy oƚ ʞɒɘqƨ ƨiʜƚ ƨɘoᗡ .ƨmɘƚƨyƨ ǫnivil ʇo ƨɘƚɒƚƨ muiɿdiliupɘ-non ɘʜƚ niɒƚniɒm oƚ yɿɒƨƨɘɔɘn "ʞɿow" ʇo ƨmɿoʇ bɒiɿym ɘʜƚ oƚni bɘmɿoʇƨnɒɿƚ ƨi yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ɘʜTqƨdn& .ɿɘʜƚonɒ ɿo ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜƚ ʇo ƚɿɒq ɘno oƚ yǫɿɘnɘ ʇo xulʇni ƨuouniƚnoɔ ɒ ƨɘbivoɿq nuƨ ɘʜƚ bɘƚɒloƨi yllɒɔiƚɘǫɿɘnɘ ƚon ƨi ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘʜTqƨdn& .bɘqolɘvɘb niɒɿd nɒmuʜ ɘʜƚ ʜɔiʜw ni mɘƚƨyƨ ɔimɒnybomɿɘʜƚ ɘʜƚ ɘd oƚ mɘƚƨyƨ ɿɒloƨ ƨ'ʜƚɿɒɘ ɘƚɒƚƨ ƚnɘƨɘɿq ɘʜƚ ɿɘbiƨnoɔ oƚ noiƨƨuɔƨib lɘvɘl bɿɒod ᙠMT ɒ ni noiƚɒmixoɿqqɒ ƚƨɿiʇ ɘʇɒƨ ɒ ƨi ƚi ʞniʜƚ I ,"mɘƚƨyƧ" ɘʜƚ ǫnibɿɒǫɘЯ !ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ O hi mhd I look like tlow he iu idel
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Post by bubbles on Oct 19, 2014 11:31:29 GMT -5
Opidopont thopiopnk ophe opislopigopit
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 11:34:07 GMT -5
!ɘbiƨni ɘʜƚ moɿʇ ɘʞil ƨʞool ƚi ƚɒʜw ƨi ƨiʜƚ oƧ O hi mhd I look like tlow he iu idel Translation: So this is what it looks like from the inside!
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Post by bubbles on Oct 19, 2014 11:36:47 GMT -5
O hi mhd I look like tlow he iu idel Translation: So this is what it looks like from the inside! How did you figure that out?? Can you interpret mine?
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 12:07:55 GMT -5
Translation: So this is what it looks like from the inside! How did you figure that out?? Can you interpret mine? My translation is of the same text you were attempting to translate. One might need to have one's eyes annointed by Satan to be able to see it! :-)
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Post by faune on Oct 19, 2014 12:22:41 GMT -5
How did you figure that out?? Can you interpret mine? My translation is what you were attempting to translate. One might need to have one's eyes annointed by Satan to be able to see it! :-) Matisse ~Also, you can read Rational's statement from upside down and backwards to get the gist of his statement, too. However, you surely figured that puzzle out fast! You're really good at these mind games that Rational thinks up.
Translation: So this is what it looks like from the inside!
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
My translation is what you were attempting to translate. One might need to have one's eyes annointed by Satan to be able to see it! :-) Matisse ~Also, you can read Rational's statement from upside down and backwards to get the gist of his statement, too. However, you surely figured that puzzle out fast! You're really good at these mind games that Rational thinks up.
Translation: So this is what it looks like from the inside!
Careful! If you think about it too hard, Satan might get a grip on your mind, as well! Seriously, I focused on the part that is a direct quote of my earlier post. I knew exactly what that text snhould say, so it quickly gave me the way to translate the new text. I will admit to having a soft spot for rational's puzzles.
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Post by faune on Oct 19, 2014 12:40:14 GMT -5
Matisse ~ You have keener eyesight than I do for deciphering Rational's puzzles. They are mind boggling, and I usually need some help to make sense of them. Matisse shared...
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Post by rational on Oct 19, 2014 13:06:49 GMT -5
Careful! If you think about it too hard, Satan might get a grip on your mind, as well! Seriously, I focused on the part that is a direct quote of my earlier post. I knew exactly what that text snhould say, so it quickly gave me the way to translate the new text. I will admit to having a soft spot for rational's puzzles. I wonder if matisse might be rational...
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Post by matisse on Oct 19, 2014 13:56:27 GMT -5
Careful! If you think about it too hard, Satan might get a grip on your mind, as well! Seriously, I focused on the part that is a direct quote of my earlier post. I knew exactly what that text snhould say, so it quickly gave me the way to translate the new text. I will admit to having a soft spot for rational's puzzles. I wonder if matisse might be rational... In your dreams! ...I mean, mine...NO yours! It is possible, however, that I am your "sister from a different mother." I believe NathanB has the documentation to establiesh common paternity.
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Post by rational on Oct 19, 2014 20:34:19 GMT -5
From inside earth? Venus? Ha, I was wondering if someone would allude to Venus. That was what crossed my mind when I read that. Venusian? I must be the devil's spawn because I read it immediately. Guess it proves that worker from long ago was right!! 8-) ¡uʍop ǝpısdn pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ uɹnʇ oʇ uɐǝɯ ʇ,upıp ı
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 19, 2014 22:34:28 GMT -5
Careful! If you think about it too hard, Satan might get a grip on your mind, as well! Seriously, I focused on the part that is a direct quote of my earlier post. I knew exactly what that text snhould say, so it quickly gave me the way to translate the new text. I will admit to having a soft spot for rational's puzzles. I wonder if matisse might be rational... Oh, definitely! Matisse is a very rational person, much as you are, Rational!
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Post by bubbles on Oct 20, 2014 4:11:37 GMT -5
How did you figure that out?? Can you interpret mine? My translation is of the same text you were attempting to translate. One might need to have one's eyes annointed by Satan to be able to see it! :-) I doubt he anoints.
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