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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 1, 2014 17:59:41 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 18:58:14 GMT -5
rest assured he doesn't speak for americans, americans are the most generous people there are when it comes to charity...
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Post by fixit on Sept 1, 2014 20:10:27 GMT -5
I agree that the pope's comments tend to be very left leaning. I fully support a hand up for the poor rather than a hand out.
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jscc1
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Post by jscc1 on Sept 1, 2014 21:54:00 GMT -5
YOU SERIOUS??? Per capita???NO? Why do the US folk think they are so generous? Your health system--I had open heart surgery as a part pensioner (or if I had basic income)left Hospital total bill $33.oo later a Carcenoid (cancer)removed,Guess what? Not one cent. We look after each other,poverty per capita much less than US (still to much) Indonesian psunami get the $$$/country figures,US not that good? Cuba love your neighbour==US sooks/poor loosers,=USA? Cant stand being embarrased because you bullied these people and all they wanted was to be left alone,Bay of Pigs backfired unforgiving USA still sulking brats have since treated them like dirt.LOVE your neighbour,dont look at the colour,race,political incline,religion so heap coals of fire on their heads,as God would want?Where is the charitable hand of friendship,selectively chosen? The horrors of the 2x Koreas,loss to North in Vietnam,with Hollywood making propaganda films as though USA the victors,thousands and thousands killed including US & Australian young men by the 1000s ,why? Is communism worse to the soul than capitalism,consumerism,materialism and greed. The north took over anyway,as US and allies FLED. Charity? Joking? Way behind,in charity and that also includes the words justice and welfare,look how the poor of your country are treated,especially if you are coloured,your countries wealth was made so great on brutal human slavery. Do you feel Godly and comfortable about that? Bible says nations shall be judged,mmmm Tom Cruise,John Wayne,Michael Jackson,etc we outside see these people worshiped above the masses not GOD. G'day to you all. But please check the statistics next time.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 1, 2014 23:16:16 GMT -5
I agree that the pope's comments tend to be very left leaning. I fully support a hand up for the poor rather than a hand out. All charity is left leaning -- unless it's given with the expectation of net personal profit. Then it's called capitalism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 11:13:38 GMT -5
I agree that the pope's comments tend to be very left leaning. I fully support a hand up for the poor rather than a hand out. All charity is left leaning -- unless it's given with the expectation of net personal profit. Then it's called capitalism. all left leaning charity comes through taxes which is enforced by the barrel of a gun...right leaning charity comes freely from ones own pocket no gun required...
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2014 13:02:35 GMT -5
All charity is left leaning -- unless it's given with the expectation of net personal profit. Then it's called capitalism. Reminded me of an older professing woman in this part of the world who was left-leaning and she publicly stated one day in meeting that "Jesus was the greatest communist that ever lived..." Created quite a bit of division in the meeting from memory She's not the first one to say that. Some workers from Canada were pursuing permission to go to Cuba, and after they were questioned the officials said to them, "You're more Communist than the Communist party." Quite telling when the Communists recognize their own kind in the workers.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2014 13:07:32 GMT -5
All charity is left leaning -- unless it's given with the expectation of net personal profit. Then it's called capitalism. all left leaning charity comes through taxes which is enforced by the barrel of a gun...right leaning charity comes freely from ones own pocket no gun required... I know. It's just ridiculous the way soldiers come to the door to collect my taxes. One time they came two days before payday, so I sneaked out the back door and they thought no one was home. What do they think I am, some kind of a Christian who doesn't want them giving any of my money to the poor?
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Post by emy on Sept 2, 2014 14:14:58 GMT -5
Reminded me of an older professing woman in this part of the world who was left-leaning and she publicly stated one day in meeting that "Jesus was the greatest communist that ever lived..." Created quite a bit of division in the meeting from memory She's not the first one to say that. Some workers from Canada were pursuing permission to go to Cuba, and after they were questioned the officials said to them, "You're more Communist than the Communist party." Quite telling when the Communists recognize their own kind in the workers. Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. Would you agree that God's kingdom has the best government of all? the benevolent monarchy?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 15:02:43 GMT -5
all left leaning charity comes through taxes which is enforced by the barrel of a gun...right leaning charity comes freely from ones own pocket no gun required... I know. It's just ridiculous the way soldiers come to the door to collect my taxes. One time they came two days before payday, so I sneaked out the back door and they thought no one was home. What do they think I am, some kind of a Christian who doesn't want them giving any of my money to the poor? you stop paying taxes and find out what the gov't will do to you bob...
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Post by fixit on Sept 2, 2014 16:48:03 GMT -5
She's not the first one to say that. Some workers from Canada were pursuing permission to go to Cuba, and after they were questioned the officials said to them, "You're more Communist than the Communist party." Quite telling when the Communists recognize their own kind in the workers. Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. I doubt that Jesus ever advocated government ownership of the means of production. The poor are best served by a free market system with income and expenditure taxed responsibly in order to help the less fortunate. We could argue all day about how that should be done, but when a tax is too heavy it's counter-productive. IMO the US tax system is far from ideal, and much could be learned from other countries about how to improve it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2014 17:20:30 GMT -5
She's not the first one to say that. Some workers from Canada were pursuing permission to go to Cuba, and after they were questioned the officials said to them, "You're more Communist than the Communist party." Quite telling when the Communists recognize their own kind in the workers. Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. Would you agree that God's kingdom has the best government of all? the benevolent monarchy? To my knowledge Jesus never taught anything about how to form a government. Religions with political agendas have claimed he did, but that's mainly so they can share in the dictatorship. Interesting that you should consider socialism the little cousin of Communism. That's a telling statement too. But, among human beings God's kingdom is the worst form of all. A good example of what people think God's government to be is 2x2 government -- among humans, remember. So you can decide whether that kind of government is the best government of all. So until, and if, Jesus returns we really should plan on living and dealing with real life human beings and make government that works for them. The God example would only work if everyone in the world would be of the same mind as the three top dogs, and all others would be punished with torture of some kind for their sins of non-belief. Were you talking about the government in heaven, or the government on earth?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2014 17:23:24 GMT -5
I know. It's just ridiculous the way soldiers come to the door to collect my taxes. One time they came two days before payday, so I sneaked out the back door and they thought no one was home. What do they think I am, some kind of a Christian who doesn't want them giving any of my money to the poor? you stop paying taxes and find out what the gov't will do to you bob... I just told you -- you want me to tell you again? I live in the USA -- I can't even leave the country now to avoid paying taxes here.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2014 17:25:57 GMT -5
Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. I doubt that Jesus ever advocated government ownership of the means of production. The poor are best served by a free market system with income and expenditure taxed responsibly in order to help the less fortunate. We could argue all day about how that should be done, but when a tax is too heavy it's counter-productive. IMO the US tax system is far from ideal, and much could be learned from other countries about how to improve it. Now that I can agree with. But it's not going to happen until Americans get social -- I mean, care about each other. They have to stop bowing down to the iron triangle.
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Post by emy on Sept 2, 2014 22:52:02 GMT -5
Fixit and Bob: I didn't intend to say that Jesus taught how to administer communism. I simply meant that if communists lived what he taught, they would have a workable system. But then wouldn't any type of government if they lived that way?
Bob, in referring to the benevolent monarchy, I meant the government of heaven.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 3, 2014 0:15:45 GMT -5
Fixit and Bob: I didn't intend to say that Jesus taught how to administer communism. I simply meant that if communists lived what he taught, they would have a workable system. But then wouldn't any type of government if they lived that way? Bob, in referring to the benevolent monarchy, I meant the government of heaven. The government of heaven -- I'll accept that. However, Jesus teachings were only about individuals and about his own people. I accept that individuals can live acceptable Christian lives in any kind of government. And I accept that a group of very similar minded such individuals can behave as acceptable Christians in any system of government. What I find too far fetched to ever anticipate is that there would ever be a (terrestrial) government system that would just simply work that well. If you could find a population where there were no sick people, no criminals, no jealousy, no greed, no personal ambitions, no infrastructure logistics to work out, no negotiated societal rules to establish, no tasks that required more than one person to carry out ... maybe then you would have a benevolent monarchy. But then there would be no system of government and no need for any monarch. Government is necessary for human beings to live together.
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Post by fixit on Sept 3, 2014 1:48:11 GMT -5
Fixit and Bob: I didn't intend to say that Jesus taught how to administer communism. I simply meant that if communists lived what he taught, they would have a workable system. But then wouldn't any type of government if they lived that way? Bob, in referring to the benevolent monarchy, I meant the government of heaven. If communism was workable, it wouldn't need to be implemented and maintained via oppression and bloodshed. Governments like to spend wealth, but they are pretty inefficient when it comes to creating wealth. Its much better for the means of production to be outside of government control, but governments have a role to play in ensuring there's a competitive environment with a measure of consumer protection.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 3, 2014 3:25:46 GMT -5
Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. Would you agree that God's kingdom has the best government of all? the benevolent monarchy? ...or enlightened absolutism But that doesn't sound as good.... Isn't that what atheists believe in - enlightened absolutism? They are enlightened and only their views are right. Come to think of it - monotheists and atheists have a lot in common - we both stridently believe what we believe and believe that others who oppose our views are on the wrong track. I can see the responses coming... I find it interesting that no one has even mentioned the word "democracy".
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Post by emy on Sept 3, 2014 14:07:48 GMT -5
What I find too far fetched to ever anticipate is that there would ever be a (terrestrial) government system that would just simply work that well.
Agreed
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Post by Gene on Sept 3, 2014 18:50:41 GMT -5
...or enlightened absolutism But that doesn't sound as good.... Isn't that what atheists believe in - enlightened absolutism? They are enlightened and only their views are right. Come to think of it - monotheists and atheists have a lot in common - we both stridently believe what we believe and believe that others who oppose our views are on the wrong track. I can see the responses coming... I find it interesting that no one has even mentioned the word "democracy". Apples and oranges. Or laws and dollars. Democracy and monarchy are forms of government. Communism and socialism are socioeconomic systems. In other words, it's entirely possible to have a socialist monarchy, or a communist democracy. Get enough people together to vote, democratically, for a communist socioeconomic system, and presto, you have democratic communism. I'm guessing you run your household that way--assuming you have no children at home!!
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Post by rational on Sept 3, 2014 19:04:49 GMT -5
YOU SERIOUS??? Per capita???NO? Why do the US folk think they are so generous? Probably because ratings like World Giving Index ranked the US #1 in 2013, up from #5 in 2012. Remember, it is about the charity of the individuals and not the government. What statistics did you check?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2014 17:01:42 GMT -5
All charity is left leaning -- unless it's given with the expectation of net personal profit. Then it's called capitalism. all left leaning charity comes through taxes which is enforced by the barrel of a gun...right leaning charity comes freely from ones own pocket no gun required... Geeze, wally!
Where do you get such stuff!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2014 17:33:47 GMT -5
Telling? Communism would be the perfect human government if it were administered as Jesus taught. Sadly, it has as much potential for greed as capitalism - and its little cousin, socialism. Would you agree that God's kingdom has the best government of all? the benevolent monarchy? ...or enlightened absolutism But that doesn't sound as good.... Isn't that what atheists believe in - enlightened absolutism? They are enlightened and only their views are right. Come to think of it - monotheists and atheists have a lot in common - we both stridently believe what we believe and believe that others who oppose our views are on the wrong track. I can see the responses coming... Ross, I know it is a hopeless quest to get you to understand the definition of "atheist." I only keep at it for others who might listening.
You keep wanting to give "atheists " a belief in something.
Atheists lack a belief in god & gods (and goddesses.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 18:22:20 GMT -5
all left leaning charity comes through taxes which is enforced by the barrel of a gun...right leaning charity comes freely from ones own pocket no gun required... Geeze, wally!
Where do you get such stuff!
like i told bob...stop paying taxes and see what happens to you from your dear gov't...
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 18:45:24 GMT -5
Geeze, wally!
Where do you get such stuff!
like i told bob...stop paying taxes and see what happens to you from your dear gov't... Wally, I know what happens when one doesn't pay taxes -- as everyone in the country has been reading about in the news recently, where I live the Federal forces move in and the snipers line up facing each other. Your only problem with what I said was that I referred to charity as a "left" concept, and you hate and reference to "left". Well, check out the uses of the word "liberal" in the Bible, and find the virtues of "conservative".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 18:57:27 GMT -5
like i told bob...stop paying taxes and see what happens to you from your dear gov't... Wally, I know what happens when one doesn't pay taxes -- as everyone in the country has been reading about in the news recently, where I live the Federal forces move in and the snipers line up facing each other. Your only problem with what I said was that I referred to charity as a "left" concept, and you hate and reference to "left". Well, check out the uses of the word "liberal" in the Bible, and find the virtues of "conservative". a liberal in Christ day and the OT is not the liberal of today...and ask any liberal today and they'll say even the NT is a conservative playground...
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Post by rational on Sept 4, 2014 19:08:45 GMT -5
a liberal in Christ day and the OT is not the liberal of today... Are the early christians the christians of today?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 19:11:35 GMT -5
a liberal in Christ day and the OT is not the liberal of today... Are the early christians the christians of today? some would say not...
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