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Post by warriorwalrus on Aug 21, 2014 0:04:20 GMT -5
So this board is almost dead compared to 7 or so years ago when I first found it. I have noticed that many people who left the 2x2's no longer go to church on a regular basis... Just for curiosity sake, how many people are actually active here anymore (spiderman, mrleo, edgar, etc)? Is it still non kosher for 2x2's to be on this thing? And lastly for those who left; Do you regularly attend church? Why or why not?
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Post by placid-void on Aug 21, 2014 7:48:55 GMT -5
Of your questions warriorwalrus, I don’t know enough to answer any but the last two.
No, I do not regularly attend church. I enjoy the architectural and historical aspects of church structures and I visit churches for community events and/or special events such as weddings and funerals.
The “why” part of the question is more challenging. I do not attend a church because I do not share the conviction, creed or “confession of faith” of any established religion. I am, however, a social animal. Most of my material social needs are met in other venues. Most of my “intellectual” social needs are also met in other venues. But that still leaves a gap. I find it exceedingly difficult to find a venue that satisfies an intrinsic desire that I have for fellowship that might transcend the material and mundane.
Neither mysticism nor “new age” movements capture my imagination.
If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance).
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 21, 2014 9:42:08 GMT -5
Warriorwalrus! I attended church regularly when I first quit the 2x2s! I went to about all the nondenominational churches in this large city.....I liked Calvary Chapel except they were into Christian Rock music and that did nothing to quieten my soul and get me ready to receive the message. However I appreciated the way the pastor dfidf his sermons....more like a bible study...a verse by verse declaration....interpretation....
Then I stumbled into the First Christian, Disciples of Christ Church and liked it immediately and went for over a couple of years steady....then I got a deacon appointment which I was not asked about...but in my first deacon/elder meeting we have a horrible situation take place and in the long run we lost over 37 rich members and the youth minister who was the subject of the nasty discussion.....I went back to church a few times, then I went to the new church the 37 members had made and woulde still go except they're clear the other side of this city and several suburbs. I left going due to the clear evidence of the evil the pastor of the First Christian Church had caused and the district superintendent of First Christian churches came but for some reason could not boot him out.....so until he leaves or changes, I don't think I'll go back and watch his favoritism for certain folks causing other folks loss and damage and hurt feelings...I could have stayed int he 2x2s for that! Also I will not take a deacon or elder position in any church ever again...it is not for me, I don't believe I'm capable for the job!
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Post by faune on Aug 21, 2014 16:28:35 GMT -5
Of your questions warriorwalrus, I don’t know enough to answer any but the last two. No, I do not regularly attend church. I enjoy the architectural and historical aspects of church structures and I visit churches for community events and/or special events such as weddings and funerals. The “why” part of the question is more challenging. I do not attend a church because I do not share the conviction, creed or “confession of faith” of any established religion. I am, however, a social animal. Most of my material social needs are met in other venues. Most of my “intellectual” social needs are also met in other venues. But that still leaves a gap. I find it exceedingly difficult to find a venue that satisfies an intrinsic desire that I have for fellowship that might transcend the material and mundane. Neither mysticism nor “new age” movements capture my imagination. If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance).Ynot ~ Perhaps one of these groups would be more to your liking according to the description above. In fact, I wouldn't mind checking something like this out myself, if located nearby? In fact, I found one gathering dealing with NDE's within 25 miles of home just a few minutes ago. Also, found a gathering for young moms scheduled tonight in our hometown for women in their 30's, which I recommended to my daughter. Guess they don't have fun groups like this for people in their 60's ~ too bad!
neardeathexp.meetup.com/
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Post by fixit on Aug 21, 2014 17:08:44 GMT -5
If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance). Thanks for this Yknot. If you ever feel you could say more, I'm interested in hearing it!
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Post by fixit on Aug 21, 2014 17:09:01 GMT -5
If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance). Thanks for this Yknot. If you ever feel you could say more, I'm interested in hearing it!
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Post by warriorwalrus on Aug 21, 2014 17:55:22 GMT -5
Interesting... I still miss the good old days as the Iowa exodus was happening. This would have been over 100 posts already. Dennis, Mrleo, etc would all be on here. Jeff Thayer would be on here in disguise (again) trying to figure out what elders to kick out of the 2x2"s for knowing the truth about the truth etc. Good times.
So Ynot, do you consider yourself agnostic, theist, atheist, or something else. I get having a hard time after leaving. Several of my friends who left around the same time as me rejected religion altogether, because they felt that no one or no religion could claim to have the path to heaven. They claimed it was the same thing the 2x2's taught. While I disagree, I was wondering where people stood and why they believe what they do now.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 21, 2014 18:21:36 GMT -5
Hi Faune,
Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately, that is not quite what I had in mind. I am of an age where real death is much more probable then "near-death" so I think I will continue my search closer to my comfort zone and conceptual home-base. Stretch objectives are always good for sustainable growth but I am not prepared at this time to over-extend my sense of credulity.
Thanks for your thoughtfulness.
Yknot
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Post by Gene on Aug 21, 2014 18:52:05 GMT -5
Of your questions warriorwalrus, I don’t know enough to answer any but the last two. No, I do not regularly attend church. I enjoy the architectural and historical aspects of church structures and I visit churches for community events and/or special events such as weddings and funerals. The “why” part of the question is more challenging. I do not attend a church because I do not share the conviction, creed or “confession of faith” of any established religion. I am, however, a social animal. Most of my material social needs are met in other venues. Most of my “intellectual” social needs are also met in other venues. But that still leaves a gap. I find it exceedingly difficult to find a venue that satisfies an intrinsic desire that I have for fellowship that might transcend the material and mundane. Neither mysticism nor “new age” movements capture my imagination. If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance). yknot, I once sojourned for a considerable spell (while in the work) in Fairfield, Iowa, home of Maharishi University. We had some 'contacts' at the University -- a professor and his family whose mother was professing. We had a number of visits with them, but I think I was influenced far more by them, than they by my companion and me! It resulted in me spending quite a bit of time in the University library on my own, exploring what they were all about. Do you have any familiarity with their school of thought? A brief excerpt from Wiki for those who have an aversion to links: "It was founded in 1973 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and features a "consciousness-based education" system that includes the practice of the Transcendental Meditation technique.[6][7] Its founding principles include the development of the full potential of the individual, fulfilling economic aspirations while maximizing proper use of the environment and bringing spiritual fulfillment and happiness to humanity.[8]"
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Post by placid-void on Aug 21, 2014 19:38:24 GMT -5
If pressed, I am not sure I could say much more about this later desire (need?). I would look for a fellowship that might be described as more reflective than instructive. I think (but don’t hold me to this) that I am looking for a fellowship of individuals capable of transcending self and ego but captivated by awe and an appreciation for phenomena that lie beyond the horizon of human comprehension. I think I seek fellowship with individuals whose goals are aspirational (an ethic that supercedes compliance). Thanks for this Yknot. If you ever feel you could say more, I'm interested in hearing it! Hi fixit. I really wish I could say more but I don’t think I have an adequate vocabulary to express just what it is that I feel and/or believe. My training and work experiences have all been in the sciences so I have deep respect and admiration for the means, methods and accomplishments of the scientific community. I value the role of the observer in categorizing the observed. Like most people I accept and embrace the observed as reality and live my life accordingly. One of the things you learn in math and science is that a proof depends on being able to demonstrate both necessity and sufficiency. Observation, measurement and predictability all fall within the realm of necessity when considering the “purpose/meaning” of life. But are those operations sufficient? That is the question I am challenged by. Observable, measureable and predictable are all critically important processes. They have given us most of what we value in this material world and have immeasurably improved the quality of life for most members of our species. Errors have been made, boundaries have been transgressed and unforeseen consequences have emerged but on balance I believe that our species has been a reasonably good steward of the capabilities we have achieved. For me, observing, measuring, predicting, building, rearranging, destroying, capturing and releasing are all ultimately sterile and unfulfilling. I find them to be insufficient to give life meaning. Sufficiency requires something beyond science (I believe). Connection? Perhaps. Awe? High on my list. Humility? Yea, another one high on my list. Higher consciousness? I don’t know, very, very tricky ground for one who is accustomed to observe, measure and predict. How do you find a language that is not laden with meaningless baggage so that we can consider what we know/feel and what we don’t know honestly and forthrightly? When I really try to strip away all the superficial stuff, I always come back to the sense that those folks sitting in those Sunday morning meetings were wrestling with precisely these same questions. “What really matters?” “How do I get beyond myself and aspire to a greater good?” TMB gives testament to the millions of ways that “they got it wrong” but at core don’t we still all seek meaningful answers to the same questions we have always asked ourselves? I am rambling, but that is the nature of my thoughts.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 21, 2014 20:13:36 GMT -5
Interesting... I still miss the good old days as the Iowa exodus was happening. This would have been over 100 posts already. Dennis, Mrleo, etc would all be on here. Jeff Thayer would be on here in disguise (again) trying to figure out what elders to kick out of the 2x2"s for knowing the truth about the truth etc. Good times. So Ynot, do you consider yourself agnostic, theist, atheist, or something else. I get having a hard time after leaving. Several of my friends who left around the same time as me rejected religion altogether, because they felt that no one or no religion could claim to have the path to heaven. They claimed it was the same thing the 2x2's taught. While I disagree, I was wondering where people stood and why they believe what they do now. To answer your question warriorwalrus, I would say that "I am unable to know" which I think is a foundational principle of an agnostic. The little bit that I know about these types of labels, agnostics cover a very broad spectrum of beliefs represented by every shade of grey. Within that broad spectrum, I would fall toward the end of the scale capable of considering and on occasion actually embracing the concept of a "higher consciousness". Is that "consciousness" accessible? I do not know. Beyond the suppressed fear that I might go to "hell" when I died, I actually did not struggle all that much after I made the decision in my late teens to leave the fellowship. I didn't struggle because I had a remarkably well developed psychological capacity to detach. It was great . . . . no anxiety, no bad feelings, no longing for attachment, etc, etc. But then I got older and ever so slowly I came to realize that detachment is not all that I had made it out to be. I realized that I didn't have deep, genuine and sincere relationships with others. I didn't (and still don't) like that state of affairs and have set myself on a path back toward more honest and sincere connections. I think I am making progress but the road is slow and rocky and that wonderfully comfortable rut of detachment ever beckons me back. I have found that the search for depth and sincerity in relationships presages an aspirational quest for purpose and meaning.
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Post by fixit on Aug 21, 2014 20:17:00 GMT -5
When I really try to strip away all the superficial stuff, I always come back to the sense that those folks sitting in those Sunday morning meetings were wrestling with precisely these same questions. “What really matters?” “How do I get beyond myself and aspire to a greater good?” TMB gives testament to the millions of ways that “they got it wrong” but at core don’t we still all seek meaningful answers to the same questions we have always asked ourselves? I am rambling, but that is the nature of my thoughts. Thanks Ynot, your "rambling" is welcome! I appreciate your thoughts which are closely allied to my own. I've already made a nomination for post of the week, but what you've written above is some of the most insightful and powerful I've seen on TMB.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 21, 2014 20:45:35 GMT -5
yknot, I once sojourned for a considerable spell (while in the work) in Fairfield, Iowa, home of Maharishi University. We had some 'contacts' at the University -- a professor and his family whose mother was professing. We had a number of visits with them, but I think I was influenced far more by them, than they by my companion and me! It resulted in me spending quite a bit of time in the University library on my own, exploring what they were all about. Do you have any familiarity with their school of thought? A brief excerpt from Wiki for those who have an aversion to links: "It was founded in 1973 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and features a "consciousness-based education" system that includes the practice of the Transcendental Meditation technique.[6][7] Its founding principles include the development of the full potential of the individual, fulfilling economic aspirations while maximizing proper use of the environment and bringing spiritual fulfillment and happiness to humanity.[8]" Gene, thank you so very much for your generous and thoughtful post. To answer your question, I am not familiar specifically with Maharishi University. I have restively circled "Eastern schools of thought" for years and dabbled here and there but to be honest I have been timid and fearful of the cultural barrier. I have played around with yoga and meditation and would swear to the benefits of both but I have not sustained a long-term practice. I love Thich Hanh's "Mindfulness". The rational side of my brain is intrigued by the efforts in Bhutan to develop measures and assess the concept of a "Gross National Happiness" instead of the strictly economic GDP. The effort in Bhutan seems very close to the principles you describe at Maharishi University. Having researched the principles of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, how did you end up in you analysis. Do you embrace any of their ideas, principles, practices or rituals? Is depth of understanding accessible across the cultural divide? Do you derive a sense of deeper meaning (consciousness) in their practices than you have experienced in Western cultural practices? For me, the fear of "a bridge too far" persists, but I can always be coaxed.
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Post by matisse on Aug 23, 2014 20:43:06 GMT -5
I have found that the search for depth and sincerity in relationships presages an aspirational quest for purpose and meaning. Yknot, I've been reading your posts with interest and looking for a spot to jump in.... Would you mind elaborating here? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. -matisse
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Post by matisse on Aug 23, 2014 21:13:45 GMT -5
It took 7 years after I left meetings before I was willing to set foot in a religious space. When I did, it was out of a need to put my early experience in context and not out of a desire to join a religious institution. It helped to look around and I enjoyed a wide range of experiences. Later, I became a member of a local Unitarian Society for a few years. It was a good place for me to land. There were helpful resources for people like myself who had lost their faith and were in the process of sorting things out. I met good people and felt a sense of fellowship. The musical programs in the Sunday services were always wonderful and as important to me as any sermon.
Almost 30 years have passed now since I stopped going to meetings. I am not affiliated with any religious or spiritual institutions, although some of my best friends are. We have lively conversations - not in any attempt to "convert" one to a different point of view, but because we are open and interested in the subject of life, how to think about it and what to do about it. I think the conversations work because, although we each have some strongly held and differing points of view, none of us thinks we have all of the answers. I attend the occasional christening, First Communion, wedding and funeral.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 23, 2014 21:59:10 GMT -5
It took 7 years after I left meetings before I was willing to set foot in a religious space. When I did, it was out of a need to put my early experience in context and not out of a desire to join a religious institution. It helped to look around and I enjoyed a wide range of experiences. Later, I became a member of a local Unitarian Society for a few years. It was a good place for me to land. There were helpful resources for people like myself who had lost their faith and were in the process of sorting things out. I met good people and felt a sense of fellowship. The musical programs in the Sunday services were always wonderful and as important to me as any sermon. Almost 30 years have passed now since I stopped going to meetings. I am not affiliated with any religious or spiritual institutions, although some of my best friends are. We have lively conversations - not in any attempt to "convert" one to a different point of view, but because we are open and interested in the subject of life, how to think about it and what to do about it. I think the conversations work because, although we each have some strongly held and differing points of view, none of us thinks we have all of the answers. I attend the occasional christening, First Communion, wedding and funeral. Matisse -- I have to say ditto to what you just wrote. I wish I could have talked with the workers the way I visit with all my "very different" friends these days, but I can't see that happening.
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Post by matisse on Aug 23, 2014 22:31:29 GMT -5
Matisse -- I have to say ditto to what you just wrote. I wish I could have talked with the workers the way I visit with all my "very different" friends these days, but I can't see that happening. I wish that, too. It is refreshing to engage with people who are not offended by honest questions and who are committed to asking their own.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 24, 2014 9:37:29 GMT -5
I have found that the search for depth and sincerity in relationships presages an aspirational quest for purpose and meaning. Yknot, I've been reading your posts with interest and looking for a spot to jump in.... Would you mind elaborating here? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. -matisse I can try. The starting point for me is the psychological milieu from which my search began. As mentioned elsewhere, as I approached my “mid-life crisis period” I found (with the aid of a guide) that I was emotionally detached. Emotional detachment requires continuous external surveillance. External surveillance, in turn, establishes an ongoing need/desire for external validation. I grew discontented with this state of affairs. A consequence of emotional detachment for me was an absence of centered self-awareness and weak connections outside myself. My self-perception was that connections outside of myself were weak, shallow and lacked sincerity because they reflected not my inner feelings but the feelings that I gleaned as necessary or adequate from those I observed around me. The first step toward escaping this life-long behavior pattern had to be self-reflection. A search for self, independent of external values and norms (to the extent possible). As many know this process is harder than first imagined. But aids, including concepts most rigorously developed in Eastern Philosophies (as mentioned by Gene), are available to assist the journey. I believe that genuine expressions of self are what allow for sincerity in relationships. Further, I believe that relationships founded and sustained on sincerity become deeper with time. It has been my experience that as I seek to have deeper and more meaningful relationships (connections) that a new and more profound desire for purpose begins to emerge. But as I reckon things, undirected purpose has transient significance. Hence, an interest, a desire has emerged to seek the wisdom of meaning beyond self. If such wisdom exists it would orient purpose which in turn would add to the depth of relationships which nurture the connections so essential for fulfillment and appreciation of the beauty of life. But this quest for purpose and meaning is purely aspirational. If “purpose” or “meaning” were to be found, their “reality” would be known only to the observer and would have meaning only to that observer. Not sure this elaboration will contribute to understanding. If not, please ask more.
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Post by matisse on Aug 24, 2014 10:21:34 GMT -5
Yknot, I've been reading your posts with interest and looking for a spot to jump in.... Would you mind elaborating here? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. -matisse I can try. The starting point for me is the psychological milieu from which my search began. As mentioned elsewhere, as I approached my “mid-life crisis period” I found (with the aid of a guide) that I was emotionally detached. Emotional detachment requires continuous external surveillance. External surveillance, in turn, establishes an ongoing need/desire for external validation. I grew discontented with this state of affairs. A consequence of emotional detachment for me was an absence of centered self-awareness and weak connections outside myself. My self-perception was that connections outside of myself were weak, shallow and lacked sincerity because they reflected not my inner feelings but the feelings that I gleaned as necessary or adequate from those I observed around me. The first step toward escaping this life-long behavior pattern had to be self-reflection. A search for self, independent of external values and norms (to the extent possible). As many know this process is harder than first imagined. But aids, including concepts most rigorously developed in Eastern Philosophies (as mentioned by Gene), are available to assist the journey. I believe that genuine expressions of self are what allow for sincerity in relationships. Further, I believe that relationships founded and sustained on sincerity become deeper with time. It has been my experience that as I seek to have deeper and more meaningful relationships (connections) that a new and more profound desire for purpose begins to emerge. But as I reckon things, undirected purpose has transient significance. Hence, an interest, a desire has emerged to seek the wisdom of meaning beyond self. If such wisdom exists it would orient purpose which in turn would add to the depth of relationships which nurture the connections so essential for fulfillment and appreciation of the beauty of life. But this quest for purpose and meaning is purely aspirational. If “purpose” or “meaning” were to be found, their “reality” would be known only to the observer and would have meaning only to that observer. Not sure this elaboration will contribute to understanding. If not, please ask more. Thank you, Yknot! Yes it is helpful, though I am not sure how best to respond. The starting psychological milieu for me was also one of emotional detachment. The first feeling I was able to detect and describe to a therapist was "numbness"....a "white chalky solid block occupying my chest and belly." In my experience, the path to a sense of inner vibrancy was largely unmarked and non-linear. Twenty years later, I use the "state of my insides" as a guide to how I am doing. I believe also that "genuine expressions of self are what allow for sincerity in relationships" and that "relationships founded and sustained on sincerity become deeper with time." There is more I might say, but I am going to stop here for now. Thanks again for elaborating.
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Post by faune on Aug 24, 2014 12:38:57 GMT -5
Matisse -- I have to say ditto to what you just wrote. I wish I could have talked with the workers the way I visit with all my "very different" friends these days, but I can't see that happening. I wish that, too. It is refreshing to engage with people who are not offended by honest questions and who are committed to asking their own. Matisse ~ I agree wholeheartedly and appreciated what you shared of your life story previously. Such honesty and transparency is refreshing to see and experience.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 25, 2014 0:04:17 GMT -5
We can't assume that everyone who leaves meetings goes forward on a single tangent. There are, of course, those who just choose to go to another denomination, and those who choose to have nothing more to do with organized religions.
But there are some people who never find what they are looking for, or feel they need -- the religious addicts. For whatever reason they cannot deal with life outside the framework of a fellowship, and so they continue to look. They leave other congregations for reasons not unlike the reasons they left the 2x2s, and they join now denominations for reasons not unlike the reasons they joined their second congregation -- or even why they joined the 2x2s. These are the unhappiest people of all because they're controlled by fear -- the fear of being without an underwriter for their eternal salvation. To them, religion is like a drug -- it satisfies perfectly to begin with, but it's never good enough and they move on to the next one that satisfies.
People can get out of such a cycle if they realize what they are doing and step aside and analyze why that is happening to them. People who don't know what membership in a religion involves in terms of loyalty and service should never commit themselves to it -- it can have disastrous results. I've seen too many such people leave the 2x2 meetings in exactly that manner, and from a host of other denominations as well.
There is such a thing as being better off not committing to a denomination at all, and if you're an addict, avoid it altogether. Some people can't handle a glass of wine for dinner. Many people can. Some people turn to religion to replace other addictions -- be careful that religion becomes an addiction too.
FWIW
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Post by findingtruth on Aug 25, 2014 0:24:51 GMT -5
Yknot, I've been reading your posts with interest and looking for a spot to jump in.... Would you mind elaborating here? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. -matisse I can try. The starting point for me is the psychological milieu from which my search began. As mentioned elsewhere, as I approached my “mid-life crisis period” I found (with the aid of a guide) that I was emotionally detached. Emotional detachment requires continuous external surveillance. External surveillance, in turn, establishes an ongoing need/desire for external validation. I grew discontented with this state of affairs. A consequence of emotional detachment for me was an absence of centered self-awareness and weak connections outside myself. My self-perception was that connections outside of myself were weak, shallow and lacked sincerity because they reflected not my inner feelings but the feelings that I gleaned as necessary or adequate from those I observed around me. The first step toward escaping this life-long behavior pattern had to be self-reflection. A search for self, independent of external values and norms (to the extent possible). As many know this process is harder than first imagined. But aids, including concepts most rigorously developed in Eastern Philosophies (as mentioned by Gene), are available to assist the journey. I believe that genuine expressions of self are what allow for sincerity in relationships. Further, I believe that relationships founded and sustained on sincerity become deeper with time. It has been my experience that as I seek to have deeper and more meaningful relationships (connections) that a new and more profound desire for purpose begins to emerge. But as I reckon things, undirected purpose has transient significance. Hence, an interest, a desire has emerged to seek the wisdom of meaning beyond self. If such wisdom exists it would orient purpose which in turn would add to the depth of relationships which nurture the connections so essential for fulfillment and appreciation of the beauty of life. But this quest for purpose and meaning is purely aspirational. If “purpose” or “meaning” were to be found, their “reality” would be known only to the observer and would have meaning only to that observer. Not sure this elaboration will contribute to understanding. If not, please ask more. ynot, I'd have to say that your expressed desire to reach beyond self for wisdom and yet to become more in touch with who I truly am has been my quest recently. Warriorwalrus, thanks for your inquiry here. After leaving the fellowship I soon began to view "religion" as man's desperate attempt to bring order into what might otherwise be chaos. But it might be that religion has actually created more division, bitterness, chaos and hatred. I too have explored eastern concepts because they seem feel "right" to me. I no longer consider myself a religious person but one who is searching for truth on a deeper level. It's not easy to find others who might be on the same journey. I'm glad to see that there are some here on TMB who may understand my point of view. I'm not atheist, not sure if I'm agnostic or not. Perhaps I lean that way a bit.
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Post by breakingfree on Aug 25, 2014 2:49:02 GMT -5
So this board is almost dead compared to 7 or so years ago when I first found it. I have noticed that many people who left the 2x2's no longer go to church on a regular basis... Just for curiosity sake, how many people are actually active here anymore (spiderman, mrleo, edgar, etc)? Is it still non kosher for 2x2's to be on this thing? And lastly for those who left; Do you regularly attend church? Why or why not? I left meetings a few years ago. I regularly attend a little bible church because I absolutely love it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 3:23:31 GMT -5
I think I could have voted for all of the last three options. I no longer believe in the Christian God, I don’t ever feel the need to go to church and I only attend church rarely and then pretty much only in the case of funerals. Strangely, when I believed in God I believed that churches were bad places, however now that I no longer believe in God I find that are churches are actually good places, particularly when there isn’t a service on. I now like to go into cathedrals when they are empty and sit quietly for a while with my iPod listening to the likes of Bruch or Bach. Call it spirituality or whatever, but the combination of the grandeur of a church building, the tranquillity of the place and the music invokes a certain feeling of inspiration. It certainly contrasts with my previous experience of church going which involved a weekly diet of twenty minutes of barely in tune hymn singing, twenty minutes of uninspiringly expressed gratitude for the 2x2 system and twenty minutes with my head pressed hard against the back of a dining room chair waiting my turn to mumble a rambled prayer to a God who isn’t there. Is it any wonder that I still wake up in the night screaming. Matt10
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Post by placid-void on Aug 25, 2014 7:14:54 GMT -5
I think I could have voted for all of the last three options. I no longer believe in the Christian God, I don’t ever feel the need to go to church and I only attend church rarely and then pretty much only in the case of funerals. Strangely, when I believed in God I believed that churches were bad places, however now that I no longer believe in God I find that are churches are actually good places, particularly when there isn’t a service on. I now like to go into cathedrals when they are empty and sit quietly for a while with my iPod listening to the likes of Bruch or Bach. Call it spirituality or whatever, but the combination of the grandeur of a church building, the tranquillity of the place and the music invokes a certain feeling of inspiration. It certainly contrasts with my previous experience of church going which involved a weekly diet of twenty minutes of barely in tune hymn singing, twenty minutes of uninspiringly expressed gratitude for the 2x2 system and twenty minutes with my head pressed hard against the back of a dining room chair waiting my turn to mumble a rambled prayer to a God who isn’t there. Is it any wonder that I still wake up in the night screaming. Matt10 Wonder indeed! Afflicted with that degree of repetitive unmitigated torture it is truly a wonder one could sleep at all.
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Archie
Junior Member
Non,je ne regrette rein!!!!
Posts: 64
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Post by Archie on Aug 28, 2014 17:47:28 GMT -5
No , I do not attend any church. I'm happy with what I was taught, by my parents and while I attended 2x2 meetings. I keep that within myself.
I don't believe in the 2x2 doctrine anymore, but rather look to the "Old Gods" mainly Norse ,that Christianity pushed out.
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