Post by sacerdotal on Apr 21, 2014 14:22:48 GMT -5
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
Actually, that statement is a form of circular argument!
(young people are leaving the faith, because scripture is murky by design, therefore needs more questions, more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue which will then increase their faith)
The scriptures are murky because they aren't centered any clear substance! Think muddy pool vs a clear brook.
If it was done by design, who designed it that way?
If one claims that the scripture is written by GOD, (as so many think,) -then why design it to make it so "murky" that it leaves lots of room for interpretation?
Leaving lots of room for interpretation is the cause of such difference of opinion which in turn caused so much division amongst "Christians" that there are thousands of different denominations!
Does anyone really think that actually "more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue" will get it straightened out and lead to "More faith?"
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
It's true that scriptures are often murky, leaving lots of room for interpretation. But that's by design. It should encourage more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue.
Actually, that statement is a form of circular argument!
(young people are leaving the faith, because scripture is murky by design, therefore needs more questions, more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue which will then increase their faith)
The scriptures are murky because they aren't centered any clear substance! Think muddy pool vs a clear brook.
If it was done by design, who designed it that way?
If one claims that the scripture is written by GOD, (as so many think,) -then why design it to make it so "murky" that it leaves lots of room for interpretation?
Leaving lots of room for interpretation is the cause of such difference of opinion which in turn caused so much division amongst "Christians" that there are thousands of different denominations!
Does anyone really think that actually "more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue" will get it straightened out and lead to "More faith?"
I tell my kids that if we can prove God exists one kills God because faith is a requirement and proof kills faith. Circular logic indeed.
I prefer an atheist over a religious nut any day of the week.
When I saw corruption, I was forced to find truth on my own. I couldn't swallow the hypocrisy.
Barry White
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
Actually, that statement is a form of circular argument!
(young people are leaving the faith, because scripture is murky by design, therefore needs more questions, more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue which will then increase their faith)
The scriptures are murky because they aren't centered any clear substance! Think muddy pool vs a clear brook.
If it was done by design, who designed it that way?
If one claims that the scripture is written by GOD, (as so many think,) -then why design it to make it so "murky" that it leaves lots of room for interpretation?
Leaving lots of room for interpretation is the cause of such difference of opinion which in turn caused so much division amongst "Christians" that there are thousands of different denominations!
Does anyone really think that actually "more questions, more conversation, more study, more dialogue" will get it straightened out and lead to "More faith?"
Dmmichgood ~ It all depends on what questions you are asking and how much seeking you are doing yourself for your own answers. I feel it's a two way street here and if something is the truth, it can stand up to scrutiny without crumbling under the microscope.
How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will have been all of these.
"Traditions are peer pressure from dead people." - Unknown "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain “Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true, but many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence.” ― Thomas Sowell "Mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity" - John Adams
From the above link: "America is less religious than ever before. The number of Americans who reported no religious affiliation , doubling since 1990."
From the above link: "America is less religious than ever before. The number of Americans who reported no religious affiliation , doubling since 1990."
"Traditions are peer pressure from dead people." - Unknown "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain “Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true, but many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence.” ― Thomas Sowell "Mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity" - John Adams
Religions come and then, when they have served their purpose they go. It is not the internet - it is knowledge and an understanding of how things work.
The religions of Egypt lasted a long time. People worshiped the Greek/Norse/Roman gods and built temples to revere them. But there are not a lot of followers today. Does the christian story have elements that will keep it around for another 1,000 years?
Religions come and then, when they have served their purpose they go. It is not the internet - it is knowledge and an understanding of how things work.
The religions of Egypt lasted a long time. People worshiped the Greek/Norse/Roman gods and built temples to revere them. But there are not a lot of followers today. Does the christian story have elements that will keep it around for another 1,000 years?
Absolutely.
"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer." James 1:27
The morality of reaching out to the disadvantaged of our society will underpin Christianity forever.
Yes the internet is wonderful. Just look at how many people refuse vaccines because of what they read on-line. Just look at Apple's Steve Job's - he sought "alternative treatment" for his treatable cancer because he read it - guess where?
Religions come and then, when they have served their purpose they go. It is not the internet - it is knowledge and an understanding of how things work.
The religions of Egypt lasted a long time. People worshiped the Greek/Norse/Roman gods and built temples to revere them. But there are not a lot of followers today. Does the christian story have elements that will keep it around for another 1,000 years?
Absolutely.
"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer." James 1:27
The morality of reaching out to the disadvantaged of our society will underpin Christianity forever.
If this was a feature that was unique to christianity I would agree but it is not. The morality of reaching out to the disadvantaged of our society will underpin humanity forever.
Just look at Apple's Steve Job's - he sought "alternative treatment" for his treatable cancer because he read it - guess where????
I do not believe you can substantiate this point of view. While it is true that Jobs did put off the surgery for 9 months it was not because of trying treatments found on the internet.
"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer." James 1:27
The morality of reaching out to the disadvantaged of our society will underpin Christianity forever.
If this was a feature that was unique to christianity I would agree but it is not. The morality of reaching out to the disadvantaged of our society will underpin humanity forever.
It's not that it is unique to Christianity, but it is the fact that it is a universal idea within Christianity. It is not a universal idea within the broader humanity. Humanity has a wide range of morality.
Just look at Apple's Steve Job's - he sought "alternative treatment" for his treatable cancer because he read it - guess where?
I do not believe you can substantiate this point of view. While it is true that Jobs did put off the surgery for 9 months it was not because of trying treatments found on the internet.
This information came from his biographer who interviewed him 40 times over 2 years:
In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.
I do not believe you can substantiate this point of view. While it is true that Jobs did put off the surgery for 9 months it was not because of trying treatments found on the internet.
This information came from his biographer who interviewed him 40 times over 2 years:
In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.
I see the confusion. My post was not clear. Jobs did not put off his conventional medical treatment because he was trying cures found on the internet. He put off the surgery because he was initially not willing to have the operation and during that time tried many alternative cures, some of which he discovered on the internet.
Bert's post, to which I was responding, misrepresented the facts:
Just look at Apple's Steve Job's - he sought "alternative treatment" for his treatable cancer because he read it - guess where????
The delay was not because he read about alternative treatments on the internet.
"Traditions are peer pressure from dead people." - Unknown "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain “Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true, but many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence.” ― Thomas Sowell "Mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity" - John Adams
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
"Traditions are peer pressure from dead people." - Unknown "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain “Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true, but many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence.” ― Thomas Sowell "Mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity" - John Adams
Or, so says the following article- which I agree with.
Especially in regards to the 2x2 fellowship and these quotes from the article:
Those seeking answers to their religious questions are finding comfort with each other, instead of the place where they should be finding comfort - the church.
The Internet has raised a generation of critical thinkers. When some churches are confronted with tough questions about the faith they've embraced for generations, they levy criticism instead of answers.
It's blind faith or no faith.
Tack on the blatant use of faith as fear mongering and as a tool for political agendas and it's easy to see why young people are fleeing the church.
Don't blame the Internet for the downfall of religion. Religious leaders are doing a good job of killing religion themselves.
The solution for churches is simple - address those burning questions with poignant answers.
Answers that don't condemn or criticize.
Of course, those answers aren't always an easy pill to swallow. The truth hurts. But when delivered with compassion, even the most bitter pill is sweetened.
I was definitely not allowed to miss meetings. I had to attend them all, special meetings, gospel meetings, Wednesday study meetings, Sunday morning Meetings, conventions and even for a short time while it existed, a youth group meeting on Friday nights. There was no getting out of it.
Morality comes not from a book, or a guy up in the sky, but from the idea that how you treat people matters, because how people feel matters. Unknown.
“A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.”
nonetheless the internet is a great place for dissension for those that don't want to follow Christ anymore...
It's also a great place to find renewed meaning in Christianity that isn't found in lifeless institutional religious settings.
Perhaps our fellowship mtgs. here on TMB have been far more "educational" then any of the fellowship mtgs. we've had in established religions, eh?
I was thinking about different churches here in this large city and how they have responded or not responded to different problems within their church....esp. when they should have sacked their present minister and looked for a better one! Seems some churches like to get a minister who is set in stone there but at the same time they pay for that in the fellowship meetings or the preaching being less then desirable and less then "lively" or living word.
I know that there are about 3 people in this retirement center that continue going to said type of church...part of the time. One lady is getting so off and on with her attendance due to the minister not being a good minister...but hey, the man has been in that church for umpteen years...he appreciates the guaranteed job, I'm sure...but perhaps if he was to have to enliven his preaching to keep his job or be put on the circuit for another church he might just remember how and why he became a minister to start with!
This makes me think of what Jesus told one of the 7 churches in REvelations about them being neither hot nor cold, but being lukewarm and if they didn't change, he was going to spue them out of his mouth!
These kind of conditions were seemingly some of the same conditions that caused a number of new churches to crop up back in the 1800's or so, aren't they? IF so, then small church groups like the 2x2's will simply peter out, won't they?
charlesfoxtrot: The FBI is seeking victim voices of the 2x2s. Report at: www.fbi.gov/2x2
Feb 21, 2024 13:27:31 GMT -5
Deleted: I saw yesterday that a letter sent to members of a church was actually copied, and distributed all over the world. I think it was Paul's letter to the Corinthians.
Jan 23, 2024 14:50:44 GMT -5
chap5act38: I never would put letters of preachers sent to members of any church at a website. How would you like it, when i put a letter of your husband to you in public? Well, not very decent. In ALL churches there are some not good. Ok, let it, and live for God.
Nov 16, 2023 12:40:00 GMT -5
chap5act38: there are about 1000 sort of churches. If we make of all wrong churches a website like this. We don't have time to look for where God wants us to be at Sunday. I never would make of any wrong church a website, you keep on 'hanging' in what hurted.
Nov 16, 2023 12:37:53 GMT -5
chap5act38: Every wrong Group I was in, God showed it to me. No woman or man had to do that. I saw it and went away.
Nov 15, 2023 17:06:27 GMT -5
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chap5act38: God is Almighty, leave it to Him, He can open eyes.. He doesn’t need you 4 that.
Nov 15, 2023 17:05:02 GMT -5
chap5act38: I prefer to put time in looking 4 a good Group. Life is short. Why time many years for this? You look obsessed... People after all do what they want. So …
Nov 15, 2023 17:00:15 GMT -5
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chap5act38: Get a life miss Kropp…
Nov 15, 2023 16:58:38 GMT -5
chap5act38: Poor miss Kropp. All money + time y put in this. Can’t believe it. But you must be obsessed totally. Go and look 4 another church. Give them time etc
Nov 15, 2023 16:57:57 GMT -5
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chap5act38: what If you fight against God…. If it is not good, once y see. I was in wrong Groups, glad to be away when I discovered it was wrong.. If I would make a Website of all wrong groups it hurts only.. and there are many many wrong groups..
Nov 15, 2023 16:56:50 GMT -5
chap5act38: why put time etc in this church? When you don’t want it, look 4 another one. If you write about all wrong churches you never will have a life and time for work etc.
Nov 15, 2023 16:51:03 GMT -5
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chap5act38: Well, when y do not like this church, surch further! I don’t understand a person that is giving so much time to this. Look for a church y think is ok. I was long ago in wrong groups, but God showed me that! Don’t need y. to see it.
Nov 15, 2023 16:49:36 GMT -5
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countryroads: There seem to be various versions of the rumor about Frandle floating around. The latest is that he went to a couple of conventions in the western part of the U.S. and was denied entry. These unconfirmed stories are perhaps actively harmful in that, if unt
Aug 10, 2023 9:27:03 GMT -5
Deleted: Ah your opinion he is Greek, good to know...
Jul 30, 2023 15:55:33 GMT -5
BobWilliston: That's what I said -- he was Greek. The great Saint Augustine explained how he injected Paul's christian thought into "Christianity". Remember, Paul wrote that he was only interested in "Jesus the christ", not Jesus the man or Jesus the messiah.
Jul 29, 2023 20:57:29 GMT -5
Deleted: Paul was greek? Where does it say that?
Jul 16, 2023 8:29:47 GMT -5
BobWilliston: Yes, being a Greek Jew, he was referring to the style of a Greek "christ", as opposed to a Jewish "messiah". The Jews never look(ed) for a "christ" -- they only expected a "messiah". The foundation of Christianity through Augustine.
Jul 15, 2023 23:34:56 GMT -5
darrell: In the 2nd chapter of 1st corinthians Paul said when i first came unto you i determined not to know anything among you but Jesus Christ and him crucified.Nothing complicated.Not a list of rules.But the vital piece of doctrine that is before any behaviour.
Jun 17, 2023 12:48:17 GMT -5
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