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Post by Mary on Jan 17, 2015 1:21:51 GMT -5
Dmm.... said: No more trying to jump over a bunch of religious hurdles & through hoops to have an afterlife of which there is absolutely evidence!
What is this absolutely evidence you talk about - I thought you said in the past that there was no evidence of an afterlife.
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Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2015 2:02:52 GMT -5
She meant to say absolutely *no* evidence. She knows this because she knows this because she knows this because because ....
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Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2015 2:05:36 GMT -5
The promise of eternal death is analogous to a movie that begged a sequel but never was .....
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Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2015 2:05:54 GMT -5
That is what atheists teach.
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Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2015 2:08:10 GMT -5
If we can die eternally it is natural enough to ask, "Are we alive?"
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Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2015 2:15:15 GMT -5
We're irrelevant if at the end of the day the soul of man, the we and the I are just disassociated, arbitrary animations. How did we get on to this? Because you reject the Creator-imperative in the Jew narrative. First of all, we don't even know if we have a soul. Why is it so important to you that you live forever? That you have a soul? Why isn't it enough to know that you exist now, love, are compassionate, contributing to life. That is relevant. Wishful thinking that you might be something more seems to take away from the amazing life we live. It somehow downplays what our experience is right now and makes it some day in the future when you die and live forever. I have never understood how this is a better concept. We don't know what happens after death so it makes sense to me to live life to the fullest now. Life is constituted precious by the bookends of birth and death. All the same, Christianity has defied its ending.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 5:55:52 GMT -5
Presumably you're going to set out clearly for the benefit of the rest of us how you came to this rather ludicrous conclusion. Matt10 We're irrelevant if at the end of the day the soul of man, the we and the I are just disassociated, arbitrary animations. I'm presuming thus wasn't an attempt at setting out clearly for the benefit of the rest of us how you arrived at your conclusion. This statement makes even less sense than the previous one. I'm starting to wonder where you get your ideas from. Do you make this stuff up or does God reveal it to you in a dream? Matt10
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Post by Lee on Jan 19, 2015 3:02:11 GMT -5
How do you suppose the world is ordered and has significance?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2015 4:25:52 GMT -5
Dmm.... said: No more trying to jump over a bunch of religious hurdles & through hoops to have an afterlife of which there is absolutely evidence! What is this absolutely evidence you talk about - I thought you said in the past that there was no evidence of an afterlife. Sorry, I've got to do a better job of "proof reading" before I post!
That should have read, "No more trying to jump over a bunch of religious hurdles & through hoops to have an afterlife of which there is absolutely NO evidence!"
Thanks for catching that, Mary.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2015 4:29:35 GMT -5
She meant to say absolutely *no* evidence. She knows this because she knows this because she knows this because because .... Thanks, Lee, for clearing that up!
Yes, that is what I meant and of course I "know this because" there is NO evidence!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2015 4:35:21 GMT -5
First of all, we don't even know if we have a soul. Why is it so important to you that you live forever? That you have a soul? Why isn't it enough to know that you exist now, love, are compassionate, contributing to life. That is relevant. Wishful thinking that you might be something more seems to take away from the amazing life we live. It somehow downplays what our experience is right now and makes it some day in the future when you die and live forever. I have never understood how this is a better concept. We don't know what happens after death so it makes sense to me to live life to the fullest now. Life is constituted precious by the bookends of birth and death. All the same, Christianity has defied its ending. Quite strange really, -that Christians have defied life's ending with an "afterlife" but hasn't a clue to any life before birth.
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Post by Lee on Jan 19, 2015 11:30:27 GMT -5
Some people who knew JC thought they were observing an original or timeless being. Just a bunch of dumb religious folk eh?
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2015 17:25:13 GMT -5
Some people who knew JC thought they were observing an original or timeless being. Just a bunch of dumb religious folk eh? Even the smartest of people can be fooled if they want to believe something bad enough. Doesn't mean they were dumb.
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Post by Lee on Jan 20, 2015 2:24:52 GMT -5
Oh I see. The apostles weren't just dumb and foolish but in need of a lie. Prove it.
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Post by snow on Jan 20, 2015 12:58:56 GMT -5
Oh I see. The apostles weren't just dumb and foolish but in need of a lie. Prove it. Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I said. Projecting Lee?
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Post by Lee on Jan 20, 2015 23:34:14 GMT -5
Well I said, "Some people who knew JC thought they were observing an original or timeless being" and you said, "Even the smartest of people can be fooled if they want to believe something bad enough".
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Post by snow on Jan 20, 2015 23:42:03 GMT -5
Well I said, "Some people who knew JC thought they were observing an original or timeless being" and you said, "Even the smartest of people can be fooled if they want to believe something bad enough". Yes? Nothing about being dumb in there that I can see.
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Post by Lee on Jan 21, 2015 21:50:19 GMT -5
Surely the state of being beguiled and 'dumb' can be associated. How do you suppose the apostles were beguiled in their estimation of Jesus?
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Post by snow on Jan 21, 2015 23:46:30 GMT -5
Surely the state of being beguiled and 'dumb' can be associated. How do you suppose the apostles were beguiled in their estimation of Jesus? Same way all disciples of gurus have been beguiled throughout history. Or Tom Cruise being beguiled by Ron L. Hubbards views. Each to their own. I wouldn't call them dumb just because something about someone appealed to them on some level.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 22, 2015 0:06:39 GMT -5
Surely the state of being beguiled and 'dumb' can be associated. How do you suppose the apostles were beguiled in their estimation of Jesus? I can't quite see how you get that association between the definition of "Beguiled" and "dumb," lee.beguile
charm or enchant (someone), sometimes in a deceptive way. "every prominent American artist has been beguiled by Maine" synonyms: charm, attract, enchant, entrance, win over, woo, captivate, bewitch, spellbind, dazzle, hypnotize, mesmerize, seduce Doesn't seem to have the synonym , "dumb."
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Post by Lee on Jan 23, 2015 1:38:30 GMT -5
Surely the state of being beguiled and 'dumb' can be associated. How do you suppose the apostles were beguiled in their estimation of Jesus? Same way all disciples of gurus have been beguiled throughout history. Or Tom Cruise being beguiled by Ron L. Hubbards views. Each to their own. I wouldn't call them dumb just because something about someone appealed to them on some level. What evidence do you have to support your conclusion that Jesus was a cult leader?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 23, 2015 1:53:25 GMT -5
Same way all disciples of gurus have been beguiled throughout history. Or Tom Cruise being beguiled by Ron L. Hubbards views. Each to their own. I wouldn't call them dumb just because something about someone appealed to them on some level. What evidence do you have to support your conclusion that Jesus was a cult leader? Now there you go again! Where did snow say anything about Jesus being a "cult" leader?
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Post by snow on Jan 23, 2015 17:11:46 GMT -5
Same way all disciples of gurus have been beguiled throughout history. Or Tom Cruise being beguiled by Ron L. Hubbards views. Each to their own. I wouldn't call them dumb just because something about someone appealed to them on some level. What evidence do you have to support your conclusion that Jesus was a cult leader? You sure do leap frog about don't you. A cult leader? Well I guess technically he could be called that as all new religions are considered cults until they are about 100 years old. That used to be the definition anyway. And he was a leader of a new religion. However, I certainly never said anything about Jesus being a cult leader, so I don't see any reason to support a conclusion I never made in the first place.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 25, 2015 7:53:11 GMT -5
The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is what distinguishes Him from the founders of other religions. The Christian serves a risen Lord and living Saviour.
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Post by xna on Jan 25, 2015 8:14:16 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Jan 25, 2015 11:56:38 GMT -5
To me that makes the Christ story more powerful and universal. But I know many other Christians might consider that article as vexatious and suspicious.
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Post by snow on Jan 25, 2015 12:05:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 12:33:39 GMT -5
One of the saddest comments I got was from a former worker who said, 'after reading your book I had difficulty sleeping when I thought of all the people I had misled over the years as to the Scriptural way of Salvation, the workers preach 'another gospel.' Although it is understandable that someone is sad when they feel they've mislead someone(s), in the religious field it is simply understandable, acceptable, forgivable, and frankly just fine. Especially if done in good faith, and there is a just God as preached. Actually, I think it's awfully sad to hear what "...former worker..." said. It smacks of his inflated view of himself, and a diminished, if any belief in God's hand in anything.
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