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Post by rational on Mar 5, 2013 22:12:13 GMT -5
Well, there you go. "Don't suffer fools." That's precisely the egotistical, sneering attitude that doesn't endear atheists to believers. I see this happening when data is presented that demonstrates that there is an error logic but rather than actually stopping to evaluate the issues and the data the issue is avoided. How comfortable would people be if the leaders of government visited an oracle to make decisions? Of read tea leaves? Or consulted a palm reader? .......Or prayed and asked a paranormal being for guidance? Until it can be demonstrated that any of these are at all effective should public funds be spent? This is a broad brush! However, I am not keen on unsupported theories like "intelligent design" being taught in public schools. I think parents that harm their children by withholding medical treatment because of their beliefs are dangerous and should be treated as child abusers. People are vocal about some of the beliefs people hold because they have the potential for negative impact on the lives of others. You see faith based medical treatment but not many faith based air planes. Why would you want to participate?
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Mar 5, 2013 22:20:33 GMT -5
Why would I want to participate, rational? Because I find intellectual discussion stimulating, and often atheists know the bible (from a scholarly viewpoint) better than believers.
Do not for a minute think I am lumping anyone on this forum into the category of "militant atheist" or even "New Atheism." I appreciate your contrariness when beliefs are erroneously presented as facts. Also, intolerance of bigotry and medical negligence and such things has its place. But intolerance of opposing religious views is toxic.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 5, 2013 22:22:05 GMT -5
1) I've heard Dawkins speak, and yes, he doesn't "suffer fools gladly", however, it isn't difficult for me to understand why. When you constantly live in a environment of beliefs in the supernatural that are completely at odds with reality. 1) Well, there you go. "Don't suffer fools." That's precisely the egotistical, sneering attitude that doesn't endear atheists to believers. Look, I know believers can be frustrating and sneering too. But it's definitely a two-way street, and the fanatics on both sides are the ones in the limelight. I've read them all, and many more. I read books of all religious persuasions, and lean more toward atheism than conservative Christianity. Don't forget the oft-stated purpose of the New Atheist movement: 2) To totally eradicate the world of religion. Atheists have very strong anti-religious beliefs about the harmfulness of believing, and are not shy about it. You are very lucky, then. 3) [/color][/quote] I'm not complaining, DM, I'm simply pointing out a discouraging trend. 4) Militant atheists know that one way they can push Christian buttons is to use vulgarities, so when they want to ridicule, they pepper every sentence with such language. "F--- Jesus and all his f---ing Christians" is a common phrase. One found out I had written a book about John's Gospel (which, apparently makes me one of the enemy) and immediately trashed it on multiple book review forums without reading it. You cannot have a reasonable conversation on some atheist forums until you first confess (in colorful language, of course) that all Christians are deluded idiots. 5) You are very lucky if you have never encountered this. It's a serious image problem that atheists must counter, just as Christians must counter outspoken fundamentalist trends in Christian ranks.[/quote] 1) Whoa! right there! I suppose you do know that "egotistical sneering" phrase was used by Paul in 2 Corinth. 11:19?
2) I asked you to prove this.
3) and prove this as well
4) and tell me where you encountered this?
5) I am not "lucky" to never have encountered what you say you have encountered.
I don't know what group it is you know so much about, but it certainly isn't one that I've been acquainted with,
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Mar 5, 2013 22:29:53 GMT -5
DM, I know where the phrase "suffer fools" comes from. There are many of Paul's teachings that I find abominable, and I would think atheists would want to be held to a higher standard. Apparently not?
I am telling you of my personal experiences and observations, and I'm not alone. You may choose not to believe if you want, but atheism definitely has its vocal extremists too, giving atheism a very bad name.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 5, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -5
Why would I want to participate, rational? Because I find intellectual discussion stimulating, and often atheists know the bible (from a scholarly viewpoint) better than believers. Do not for a minute think I am lumping anyone on this forum into the category of "militant atheist" or even "New Atheism." I appreciate your contrariness when beliefs are erroneously presented as facts. Also, intolerance of bigotry and medical negligence and such things has its place. But intolerance of opposing religious views is toxic. But why would you want to participate in dialogue with people, atheists or theists, like the ones that you described?
Doesn't sound like that they have a lot of intellectual capacity if all they can use is four letter words!
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Post by emy on Mar 5, 2013 23:14:24 GMT -5
DM, I think DD is referring to an online forum, not a group of people he interacts with socially in "real" life.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Mar 5, 2013 23:14:58 GMT -5
Why would I want to participate, rational? Because I find intellectual discussion stimulating, and often atheists know the bible (from a scholarly viewpoint) better than believers. Do not for a minute think I am lumping anyone on this forum into the category of "militant atheist" or even "New Atheism." I appreciate your contrariness when beliefs are erroneously presented as facts. Also, intolerance of bigotry and medical negligence and such things has its place. But intolerance of opposing religious views is toxic. But why would you want to participate in dialogue with people, atheists or theists, like the ones that you described?
Doesn't sound like that they have a lot of intellectual capacity if all they can use is four letter words! lol! Thankfully, not all atheists are alike, just as not all Christians are alike. The difficulty is in carrying on a conversation with the thoughtful participants while enduring the ridicule of the "strong atheists" (they prefer that phrase to "militant atheists"). It's not a fun atmosphere and I typically don't last long.
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Post by rational on Mar 5, 2013 23:16:23 GMT -5
Why would I want to participate, rational? Because I find intellectual discussion stimulating, and often atheists know the bible (from a scholarly viewpoint) better than believers. I meant that there are many sites with an atheist leaning where people are civil. Why go to a site where you have to suffer the slings and arrows of outr..., but I digress.
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Post by emy on Mar 5, 2013 23:20:38 GMT -5
Just to clarify..
I'm not promoting Conversion Diary! I thought some of the posts there were entertaining. I didn't even read anything about her conversion.
I've had very little contact with a Ouija board so really have no opinion on whether it is evil, but I have heard something similar from other sources. The author of the forum had what she believed was a very negative experience with one. Previous to that she had not believed in anything supernatural, but that experience made her begin to believe in evil supernatural power, so I'm guessing she went looking for good power at some point.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 6, 2013 10:34:46 GMT -5
How To Talk To An Atheist Begin with a friendly greeting, such as "hello". Thanks Greg I believe it is difficult to tell someone you love them after poking them in the eye! ken You could try, "That was the nice poke-in-the-eye since I don't know you. Want to try the poke-in-the-eye after we've decided we don't like each other?"
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