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Post by You are right on Jul 28, 2006 13:55:11 GMT -5
This conversation has become perverse and disgusting in itself. These are adults on this board? Life can be perverse but never the less we all have to live hete on the earth where life is all around us. We do not have to partake of any part that we do not wish to but that does not make it go away. What specifically are you objecting to? The fact that homosexuals do sometimes engage in anal sex? Or the fact that heterosexuals do as well?
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Post by Jessi on Jul 31, 2006 20:48:20 GMT -5
I WROTE: God does not approve of people having multiple wives. YOU WROTE: Could you please back this up with sctupture
ANSWER: Yes (Gen 2:18:). God created the woman as A HELPER (one person) for the man. He created ONE woman to go with ONE man. They were the first model of marriage between TWO people, who become one in a relationship, much like the relationship of three persons of the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are ONE (Let US make man in our image). Also, Eph 5:33 - ". . . that every one of you so love his WIFE." And I Timothy 3:2 says that a “bishop must be blameless, husband of ONE WIFE . . . .”
YOU WROTE: It sounds like the punishment happens as a random event and then, if it fits, it is tied to some earlier sin. How do you know if the punishment was related to the sin in any way?
ANSWER: I think studying patterns of the punishments of God and the justice of God makes it clear to the individual who really wants to know.
In the OT, sins were punished, “to the fourth generation” (Ex 20:5). So, we can know that punishment in the OT may not even happen in that man’s lifetime, but will be upon the person’s children . . . as is the case with David. His punishment for taking Bathsheba the way he did is related in the prophet Nathan’s words to David in II Sam 12:9 +.
His punishment was . . . manifold (II Sam 12:9+) and vs 14 tells him why his first son by Bathsheba will die. But God is merciful to whomever he will be merciful-Ex 33:19) in that David still would have another child by Bathsheba, Solomon, a great King who, for all his wisdom, had many heathen (Deut 13:6-10) wives, which was forbidden (Deut 17:17) and went to Egypt for horses, which was forbidden (Deut 17:16).
So, while God forgives, there are still consequences for our sin, though not immediately apparent. Chaos permeated the lives of Jacob, David, Solomon and others. Huge complications arose because of their desire, their sin.
YOU WROTE: What were the consquences for Jacob taking more than one wife?What were the consquences for Jacob fathering multiple children by his wives' maids?
The same as for David, Solomon, others - (Ex: Ishmael, son of Hagar, would be a “Wild man” according to Gen 16:12, “raising his hand against every man.” God skipped over Abraham’s firstborn by Hagar, and established his covenant with Isaac (Gen 17:19).
A modern-day example: A guy who was a drinker gets saved – but not before he needs a new liver. He still needs one, even though God forgave him. God thus may destroy his flesh . . . But he is secure in the Lord. No matter what happens, he has assurance that he will go to heaven, but still lives with the consequences of his sin (I Cor 5:5).
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by Not so on Jul 31, 2006 22:36:31 GMT -5
I WROTE: God does not approve of people having multiple wives. YOU WROTE: Could you please back this up with sctuptureANSWER: Yes (Gen 2:18:). God created the woman as A HELPER (one person) for the man. He created ONE woman to go with ONE man. They were the first model of marriage between TWO people, who become one in a relationship, much like the relationship of three persons of the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are ONE (Let US make man in our image). Also, Eph 5:33 - ". . . that every one of you so love his WIFE." And I Timothy 3:2 says that a “bishop must be blameless, husband of ONE WIFE . . . .” So you have an example of Adam having one wife created for him. But no where does God say that men should only have one wife. That is so odd. Punishing people for the sins of their fathers. So against what it says in Ezekiel18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.[/quote] Again, so against what it says in Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.[/quote] I wonder how you pick the correct scripture. Choose the phrase to suite the case? The punishment here was not because of multiple wives. YOU WROTE: What were the consquences for Jacob taking more than one wife?What were the consquences for Jacob fathering multiple children by his wives' maids?The same as for David, Solomon, others - (Ex: Ishmael, son of Hagar, would be a “Wild man” according to Gen 16:12, “raising his hand against every man.” God skipped over Abraham’s firstborn by Hagar, and established his covenant with Isaac (Gen 17:19). So your God is a God of punishment? Like a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants if they walk in the wrong place? But then, according to the Bible we are equal to God in every way but everlasting life so I guess we have the same faults He has.
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Post by guest on Jul 31, 2006 23:01:20 GMT -5
HHHMMMMM I'm actually dissapionted that Gene isn't homosexual...I wanted him to be a role model for my son. I'm glad this subject came to the fore again, because the above statement, which I assume was said as a tongue in cheek teehee that'll getcha kind of way, bothered me. You've got to wonder what this individual would do to his son, or how he'd treat him if he were homosexual and got up the courage to tell him so. Unfortunately, I don't know if it would help the dad, but at least it would be a great day for the son, and those who can accept him, when he could. It really should be ringing just all kinds of alarm bells when the only arguement put forth is that the bible says so. That just seems to be all there is. Do what I said because I said so, never mind why. The more I've heard this arguement being used here, the more of an abomination IT is turning out to be. That alone should be a clue to start questioning.
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Post by Jessi on Jul 31, 2006 23:12:54 GMT -5
So your God is a God of punishment? Like a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants if they walk in the wrong place?
But then, according to the Bible we are equal to God in every way but everlasting life so I guess we have the same faults He has.
Scripture, please?
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by Guest221 on Jul 31, 2006 23:15:31 GMT -5
HHHMMMMM I'm actually dissapionted that Gene isn't homosexual...I wanted him to be a role model for my son. I'm glad this subject came to the fore again, because the above statement, which I assume was said as a tongue in cheek teehee that'll getcha kind of way, bothered me. You've got to wonder what this individual would do to his son, or how he'd treat him if he were homosexual and got up the courage to tell him so. Unfortunately, I don't know if it would help the dad, but at least it would be a great day for the son, and those who can accept him, when he could. It really should be ringing just all kinds of alarm bells when the only arguement put forth is that the bible says so. That just seems to be all there is. Do what I said because I said so, never mind why. The more I've heard this arguement being used here, the more of an abomination IT is turning out to be. That alone should be a clue to start questioning. I too am glad this subject has come up again. The bible seems to have been written from all sorts of viewpoints from all sorts of individuals. I think I'm beginning to see how and from what kind of spirit those places in the bible, on this subject, came from.
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Post by justamom on Jul 31, 2006 23:37:28 GMT -5
One of my biggest questions is how do I know for certain that the Bible is Gods word... I mean did he tell them every single word to write down.. and if not then did the folks who wrote the bible just put in what they thought God wanted them to say? I won't know for sure.. so I guess I don't put must stock into what they bible has to say.. for me.. it is just a book full of stories that some folks feel are true.. I don't know.. I have no clue...
Have a great night..
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Aug 1, 2006 0:57:03 GMT -5
One of my biggest questions is how do I know for certain that the Bible is Gods word... I mean did he tell them every single word to write down.. and if not then did the folks who wrote the bible just put in what they thought God wanted them to say? I won't know for sure.. so I guess I don't put must stock into what they bible has to say.. for me.. it is just a book full of stories that some folks feel are true.. I don't know.. I have no clue... Have a great night.. The Bible is true simply thru faith we believe this. Where does faith come from? from God With faith we believe the Bible is God's word. Why wouldn't we believe the Bible isn't God's word? Well, our lives may not reflect the way that God intents us to live... i.e. One spouse, homosexuality, pre-maritial sex, partaking of unclean things, etc... Rejecting the Word of God doesnt free us from the correction of disobedience.
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Post by justamom on Aug 1, 2006 1:45:50 GMT -5
nope for me that isn't the reason.. I have always wondered for many years if the bible is what everyone says it is.. God's true word.. I happen to think and believe that it isn't... does that make me a bad person for thinking this.. no, it sure doesn't... it just means that we can have a different take on the Bible and that is ok.. as my take on it won't influence you one bit.. and your take on it.. won't influence me one bit...
Have a great night..
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Post by Gene on Aug 1, 2006 2:14:00 GMT -5
One of my biggest questions is how do I know for certain that the Bible is Gods word... I mean did he tell them every single word to write down.. and if not then did the folks who wrote the bible just put in what they thought God wanted them to say? I won't know for sure.. so I guess I don't put must stock into what they bible has to say.. for me.. it is just a book full of stories that some folks feel are true.. I don't know.. I have no clue... Have a great night.. The Bible is true simply thru faith we believe this. Where does faith come from? from God With faith we believe the Bible is God's word. Why wouldn't we believe the Bible isn't God's word? Well, our lives may not reflect the way that God intents us to live... i.e. One spouse, homosexuality, pre-maritial sex, partaking of unclean things, etc... Rejecting the Word of God doesnt free us from the correction of disobedience. For me, the bible is a great book with a lot of great, god-directed wisdom and teaching. But what it is NOT (to me) is a rule book; a book of laws; the final word on what is right and what is wrong; the ultimate guide on how to live our lives. For me, there is a higher authority than what we know as the bibe, and that is the direct spiritual connection that I have with my maker that will ALWAYS lead in the right direction. And so, when I read the bible, it is through the filter of that higher authority.
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Aug 1, 2006 8:15:08 GMT -5
Rule book? Naw...
Simply a guide to direct our lives and thoughts to avoid painstaking wrong and bad decision that will cause suffering in our lives...
Stories like David's...
Noah's
Goliath's
Mary's
Abraham's
Joseph's OT
Joseph's NT
Lazerath's
etc.
...how we can avoid bad and wrong and enjoy upright and good based on the experiences of others.
The Bible is a guide to show us how to enjoy life in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of pain and suffering...
Dont get me wrong, I suffer in the flesh just like anyone else, and I see the warning in the Bible, if I was strong, willing, and obedient...I would have less suffering and pain...I guess I am a slow learning!
signed,
ihavenoexcuses
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2006 11:08:44 GMT -5
HHHMMMMM I'm actually dissapionted that Gene isn't homosexual...I wanted him to be a role model for my son. I'm glad this subject came to the fore again, because the above statement, which I assume was said as a tongue in cheek teehee that'll getcha kind of way, bothered me. You've got to wonder what this individual would do to his son, or how he'd treat him if he were homosexual and got up the courage to tell him so. Unfortunately, I don't know if it would help the dad, but at least it would be a great day for the son, and those who can accept him, when he could. It really should be ringing just all kinds of alarm bells when the only arguement put forth is that the bible says so. That just seems to be all there is. Do what I said because I said so, never mind why. The more I've heard this arguement being used here, the more of an abomination IT is turning out to be. That alone should be a clue to start questioning.[/quot Ok..I guess I should explain. I am a she. I have been reading on here for a couple of years and have never known Gene to be any thing but kind and thoughtful. My comment was not made with tounge in cheek. I don't believe that Gene isn't homosexual....that part I was disbelieving of. But I meant the comment about role model. I think if any of my children are homosexual...whether genetically or by choise...I will embrase or love them , just as I always have. I can honestly say that it will not bother me in the least. I am trying to raise my children to be true to them selves, to make wise choises, and to be fair and honest........If they grow up with these qualities...I will feel as I have accomplised something. Letting them know that I am not prejudiced against ANY group of people is just plain common sence. It has served me well, and hopefully it will serve them well.
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2006 11:10:04 GMT -5
Mine is only the bottom paragraph of the above post...I guess the whole quote thing didn't work to well. oops
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Post by good idea on Aug 1, 2006 15:24:26 GMT -5
I think if any of my children are homosexual...whether genetically or by choise...I will embrase or love them , just as I always have. I can honestly say that it will not bother me in the least. I am trying to raise my children to be true to them selves, to make wise choises, and to be fair and honest........If they grow up with these qualities...I will feel as I have accomplised something. good idea... its important they be true to themselves. they dont need to worry about being true to god. that isnt important.
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Aug 1, 2006 15:29:17 GMT -5
good idea... its important they be true to themselves. they dont need to worry about being true to god. that isnt important. Being sarcastic?
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Post by mrleo on Aug 1, 2006 15:40:02 GMT -5
Sounds like "Truth Speak" to me...standing true, keeping true, being willing, etc.
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2006 19:30:10 GMT -5
Well Mrleo......go back and re read my post...or any of my posts, and then see if that is still your honest comment to what I have written. There is absolutly nothing in my post that is TRUTH SPEAK...as you put it. I am not in "the truth", I am not a christian........Thats is thats all.
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Post by webster on Aug 1, 2006 19:34:32 GMT -5
juju:
don't let the bible thumpers get you down. You are doing right by your children, raising them to love and be loved, to not be prejudice, and so on.
if heaven is going to be populated by these bible thumper types, I don't want to go there. spending eternity with someone who sees only black or white & no gray would be difficult.
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Post by mrleo on Aug 1, 2006 20:22:04 GMT -5
Hi juju--sorry I wasn't more clear. My comment was directed towards 'good idea' (reply 182). Whether you're a Christian or a 2x2 or both or none of the above, IMO, raising your children in such a way that they would feel unafraid to tell you if they were gay is a worthy goal.
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2006 20:25:32 GMT -5
Ok mrleo...glad we got that sorted out!
And thankyou webster.
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Post by justamom on Aug 1, 2006 20:29:25 GMT -5
I have also raised my daughter to be open and honest with herself and those around her....
I have always had an open and honest communication with her..and I am so glad I have... because not long ago she came to me and told me that she is bi-sexual.... I am so glad that she knew that she could come to me and talk to me about things...
I never had this kind of relationship with my mother... still don't have this kind of relationship with my mother....
You all have a great day...
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2006 20:31:47 GMT -5
if heaven is going to be populated by these bible thumper types, I don't want to go there. spending eternity with someone who sees only black or white & no gray would be difficult. People who want to have things black and white live in a colorless world.
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Post by mrleo on Aug 1, 2006 20:35:29 GMT -5
webster's comment reminds me of a line from the movie Latter Days: "Your church doesn't like alcohol or homosexuals. Hmm... Well, I definitely won't be joining. Can't imagine heaven without both."
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Post by Man equal to God on Aug 1, 2006 21:26:11 GMT -5
So your God is a God of punishment? Like a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants if they walk in the wrong place? But then, according to the Bible we are equal to God in every way but everlasting life so I guess we have the same faults He has. Scripture, please? Christ's, Jessi Genesis 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. Except for the living forever bit, man has become equal to the Gods. So God prevented man from partaking of the fruit of the tree of life. Other than that, it looks like man has become as the Gods. God was a lot more human in the early part of the OT. Doesn't seem to have been omniscent. Even had trouble finding Adam in the garden. Maybe all of mankind did not descend from Adam and Eve. There is the shadowy figure of Malchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest to the Most High God. We learn in Hebrews (7:3)that Melchisedec was Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Sounds lke he must still be wandering around here somewhere. But then there are a lot of things said in Genesis that are doubtful. Adam did not die on the day he ate the fruit. ( Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.)
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Post by Dinky on Aug 1, 2006 21:35:22 GMT -5
I have also raised my daughter to be open and honest with herself and those around her.... I have always had an open and honest communication with her..and I am so glad I have... because not long ago she came to me and told me that she is bi-sexual.... I am so glad that she knew that she could come to me and talk to me about things... I never had this kind of relationship with my mother... still don't have this kind of relationship with my mother.... You all have a great day... Will you be happy when she comes home and wants to marry a German Shepard dog? They are in love and it must be okay, cause we love each other !!
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Post by justamom on Aug 1, 2006 21:52:42 GMT -5
LOL... she wants a dog very much.. but unfortunally we can't have one where we live as we are renting... But she just read what you posted and she said YUP she would marry a dog because they are very loyal...... ;D Plus she said they keep ya warm at night... lol... see ya gotta love my kid.. she has a great sense of humor..... Have a great day.....
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Aug 1, 2006 21:54:28 GMT -5
LOL... she wants a dog very much.. but unfortunally we can't have one where we live as we are renting... But she just read what you posted and she said YUP she would marry a dog because they are very loyal...... ;D Plus she said they keep ya warm at night... lol... see ya gotta love my kid.. she has a great sense of humor..... Have a great day..... Got to love the Shepherd's huge tongue, too!
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Post by GBARTHW on Aug 1, 2006 22:09:51 GMT -5
Notso InnocentQ(uack) - you've got a potty mouth. I wouldnt become a Christian if you were the only example available. Thank goodness there are Christians here who don't act like you. Don't bother bulls%*ting that you're being misunderstood. You know exactly how people will take your garbage.
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